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And while you're picking and choosing what you want to hear from the Bible, perhaps you should read this verse:

Revelations 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Melissa, thank you for having the courage to speak.

Indeed, there are people who believe that God can speak to each of us directly, if we listen, and that the words of others (and even of a much-edited book based on a 2000 year old civilization's values) aren't as powerful as God's.

I also like you're idea that God's will is still being revealed, as opposed to it having *been* revealed and set in concrete.

Melissa (or those who agree with her view),

How do you know which passages to ignore and which to accept? You even propose rejecting certain NT passages that are part of the new covenant with believers.

If you believe in individual revelation of doctrine, what if I receive revelation that is 180 degrees different from yours? What if I received revelation that I'm supposed to wage war, have slaves, oppress homosexuals, women or Jews? How do you test individual revelation to decide which if any is true? Do you accept or reject the passages about worshiping idols?

Truth-

Some help please! What does that mean exactly? I read it and re-read it. Maybe I am slow, but I just don't get it.

Oh I believe ECUMAN hit the nail on the head......

It's an interesting nail that ECUMAN hit, to be sure. It seems your choices are to accept the Bible in totality, or in part.

So... you either accept the parts of the Bible that say it's bad to kill people along with the parts that say it's OK to kill them, or you choose between them. I'd point out that you could choose between pro and anti-slavery bits of the Bible... except aren't any anti-slavery bits.

Frankly, I don't believe I've ever encountered a Christian who wasn't of the "salad bar" variety. Regardless of what they may tell you in public, of course.

ECUMAN, you raise excellent points, and I really don't have answers for many of them. We are, after all, talking about matters of faith.

When I think of war, slavery, and the other issues you raise, my conscience tell me that they are hurtful to people. From this I determine that it's better to help than to hurt and cause fear. I believe that's a higher power speaking to me.

It is interesting, though, that those issues you name are sometimes championed by people in the name of their religion.

I guess I'm really not trying to negate the power of the Bible or of Christianity. What I would like to see is more consideration of the effects of doctrine on the lives of those around us.

Tony,

What that means is open to your interpretation. You may want to go and read some of the passages before and after that verse to get a fuller meaning and pray to God that he will reveal his meaning to you.

What I meant by posting that is this: You may not interpret things from the Bible the same way I do, but when you start saying that you are going to ignore parts of the Bible and encourage others to do the same, then you are on a very slippery slope.

If I don't feel that parts of the Bible are relevant anymore, then I need to take that up with God. Not convince others to chuck parts of the Bible away because I don't happen to like them very much.

I disagree that the Bible, Christ, or morality has to change in order to survive. In fact, blanket rejections of biblical text and changing to whatever is popular at the moment is the surest way to weaken religion and make it irrelevant.

I don't say that as being 'the truth', just my humble opinion.

Truth,
A question regarding your view of the Revelation text. Do you think that the admonition to avoid changing "the book" referred to the Bible (which didn't exist at the time Rev was written) or just to the book of Revelation?

The whole question of the validity of the idea of revelation, which was expanded upon by ECUMAN, is another subject that should bear a lot of examination some other time.

I think if you read the Bible in context with a plain reading of the text, most difficult passages are easily resolved. A passage written as historical narrative about a murder, does not condone the murder, but simply reports it. Also, you will find serious consquences for those who have committed acts of evil.

You don't read the sports section of this newspaper the same way you read the national news, or the editorial section or the ads. Common sense and an open mind go a long way when you read the Bible and any other text.

Thanks for the interpretation Truth. It is appreciated.

I am not a very religious person. I have never read the bible cover to cover, and probably never will. I have however, learned a little via Sunday school and bible school.

I guess most people would consider me a hypocrit, because I do believe parts of the bible, and I don't believe other parts. Of course like Truth said, I don't try to make others see my point of view. To me, religion is a very private thing, and the feelings I have are private between God and me.

My view of the bible (my opinion), is that God himself did not write it. It was written by people who could interpret or misinterpret the happenings around them at the time they were writing.

Tony,

How would you explain detailed prophecies written about the Messiah hundreds of years before Jesus appeared on earth in human form? Prophecies about the rise and fall of kingdoms written hundreds of years before they they came true? Lucky guesses by humans? People are entitled to their own beliefs. They are not entitled to their own truth.

Amen, Tony. I do consider myself a spiritual person and I believe in God. I pray and have been the recipitent of many answered prayers. My life's blessngs are too many to count.

My beliefs are not diminished by non-believers. In fact, I think those who want to control this controversy over creation vs evolution are tyrants hell-bent on forcing the other to accept their side as being the only right choice. IMO there is room for both beliefs. While it is my belief God created mankind, I also believe in the evolution of man.

Your point re the Bible is well taken. Like all books, it was written by mankind. It is an interpretive work just as any other book, piece of art, play, etc. Each religion who uses the Bible interprets it in their own way. Otherwise, there would be only one religion. There are even books on interpreting the scriptures, all written by someone who put his own slant on the words of the Bible.

There is absolutely no way all of the Bible can be a true, virgin interpretation of the word of God, imo. I do not believe every man who has been used to translate the thousands of interpretations over thousands of years was inspired by God. So how could all the Bible be the true word of God?

"So how could all the Bible be the true word of God?"

If God is all-powerful, then He would be able to influence the minds of men to include or exclude exactly what He wanted.

Having said that, I've heard the Bible called the Living Word. I think the reason that it is called that is because you can read a passage numerous times over your life and the meaning or interpretation it has for you may change.

I once did a study that stated that God spoke to us through the Bible, prayers, other people and the Holy Spirit. It was a really good study and I took a lot away from it.

I do, therefore, agree that God can speak to us in personal ways other than the Bible if He so chooses.

I guess my main feelings are these: I think God means different things to different people. I think He is the reason we are here. I don't think it is fair to mock or poke fun at anybody's belief or disbelief in God. However, I also believe that Christians have a duty to tell the Good News. I also think that the Bible is one of our most important assets as Christians. And it is an asset that we must cherish and preserve as much as possible.

ECUMAN-
You said:
"How would you explain detailed prophecies written about the Messiah hundreds of years before Jesus appeared on earth in human form? Prophecies about the rise and fall of kingdoms written hundreds of years before they they came true? Lucky guesses by humans? People are entitled to their own beliefs. They are not entitled to their own truth."

I can't explain and don't try to. As I said in my original post, "I guess most people would consider me a hypocrit, because I do believe parts of the bible, and I don't believe other parts. Of course like Truth said, I don't try to make others see my point of view. To me, religion is a very private thing, and the feelings I have are private between God and me." My belief IS my truth, so therefore I am entitled to it. It may change tomorrow, or the next day. It will still be MY belief, and therefore still be MY truth.

Truth, I agree God is all powerful and can intervene on His behalf at any time. I said I believe He does not always choose to intervene. A prime example is my youngest son. When he was 21 he was gravely ill. The medical professionals had given him almost no hope of recovery. They said if a miracle happened and he did live, he would have permanant neurological deficits.

That miracle did happen. God did intervene, snatched him from the arms of the angel of death and returned him to us without any deficits. Why did God save my son but not someone else's?

When I was hit headon and was losing consciousness I knew I was dying. After I regained consciousness and felt all the pain, I knew I wasn't dead or I was in hell ('cause dead people are not suppose to hurt). Why wasn't I killed when people involved in much less serious wrecks are?

My point is because God can intervene doesn't mean He does in every instance. As humans who have a belief in God we don't know why, we just have faith that God makes those choices for His own reasons.

I also agree, as Christians, we have a responsibility to share our experiences of faith and give testimony. But we don't have a right to beat anyone over the head with it.

Take Eric for example. From his posts I know he is either atheist or agnostic (can't remember). I respect his freedom to choose for himself and would never try to convince him he is wrong and I am right. That's because I don't believe my choice for him is right. As Tony said, religion or lack of is a very personal thing.

Does this perspective make me less Christian? Does it stop me from sharing the Good News when I have the opportunity? Nope. I think it makes me respectful of others beliefs while sharing mine.

You are right about the Bible being a Christian's greatest asset. I did not mean to imply otherwise. But I think it is meant to be used as a reference, a guide, not as stone to cast at disbelievers.

Tony,

Again, I respect your right to belief anyting you want. But I disagree with your concept of truth. Beliefs that contradict each other cannot all be true at the same time. Christians believe that Jesus was the Messiah. Jews do not believe Jesus was the Messiah. How can Jesus be the Messiah and not be the Messiah same the same time?

Yvonne,

I have read your posts regarding religion and have found them to be open-minded and nonjudgemental. I hope I haven't given the impression that I condone beating people over the head with the Bible or anything else. I think our God is one of free choice. As we believe Him to be all-powerful, then we have to assume He could require our love, obedience, etc. He doesn't do that. And neither should we.

I totally respect Eric's and everyone else's right to believe what they want. From my experiences with Eric, I consider him to be extremely intelligent. I also expect others to at least be respectful of my choice of religions as well. I'm so thankful that we live in a country where free speech and freedom of religion are still the ideal.

I try really hard not to tell people what they HAVE to believe or SHOULD believe. I don't have all the answers. There are SO many questions I'm going to have for God when I meet Him.

I guess what bothers me about Melissa's letter is that she is stating that Christianity "must" accept evolution. Or the fact that she says she is a 'deep' believer in Jesus and then rejects parts of the Bible based on her beliefs.

I believe that God does give us the option of deciding what rules of His we will follow. But I think what Melissa is basically stating is that the Bible is untrue. That there are rules that God doesn't expect us to follow. And she has appointed herself to a position where she can state what those rules are for us. Yet, where is her evidence for making those assumptions? Where can she point and say that God is against war? Or that he agrees with her on any of the things she mentioned. Jesus said he came with a sword, right? God helped armies with holy causes when battles and wars arose in the Bible. God clearly had a chosen people and even Jesus acknowledged that in his words. Does that mean she doesn't believe those particular part of Jesus's words? We're not talking about one or two small verses, but whole chapters of the Bible that she's talking about throwing out. And some of the things that she doesn't agree with are interweaved with things that she does. Where is her justification for throwing out these portions of the Bible? And exactly which parts is she talking about that are in error? Why not identify what she thinks is wrong. Instead she basically throws out generalizations saying she just doesn't agree with it. That's why I say she is on a dangerous slope.

Guess it comes down to this. If someone wants to have an open discussion about religion, or God, or their beliefs, then give us something to discuss. Don't, however, just come out and say you reject someone else's beliefs. Isn't that in itself kind of antagonistic?

I think there are a lot of things in the Bible that are impossible to understand on a human level. For instance, Jesus says to love your neighbor as yourself. But then we also have an eye for an eye. I could identify countless questions like that that I have. But I'm not going to publish a letter in the paper saying that I reject portions of the Bible because I can't understand why something is in there. Talk about a God complex.

As far as continuing knowledge and understanding, I don't think that is mutually exclusive from the teachings of the Bible.

ECUMAN-

Please don't think I feel slighted by your comments, and please don't feel slighted by mine...
But-

In my opinion, the truth lies in every person's own belief. Because my belief is strong enough, that I believe it to be true. And who is to say that all religions aren't true? What I am saying is, if people BELIEVE them to be true, then aren't they true in that person's eyes?

Maybe the best comparison I can give (and I know it is a stretch) is this:

If I look at the sun, and I see yellow, then isn't the sun yellow? But if you look at the sun and you see orange, then isn't the sun orange? Both concepts can be true. I saw yellow, you saw orange, but we both saw the sun. In this case, our beliefs are our truths.

Tony:

I can appreciate that people do not like to to criticize another person's religious beliefs, but contradictory beliefs about a given statement cannot be true at the same time. Let me give you a clearer example. Christians believe that Jesus was crucified. Muslims believe that Jesus was NOT crucified, but that maybe Judas was crucified in His place. Now, could Jesus have been crucified and not crucified?

Just because something may be difficult to know doesn't mean that nothing about that thing is true. That's a nonsequitor. Again, I'm not trying to be harsh because you or a Jew or a Muslim or an atheist may be a better person than I could ever hope to be. I'm just trying to encourage some careful thinking on this issue.

Maybe it is just in the perception. Given your scenario...and I understand what you are saying...my truth v's actual truth...but given your scenario, I am standing from a distance, and I see who I believe to be Jesus crucified. I know what I saw---it WAS Jesus. You are right beside me, and you say, "no way man, that was Judas. I know Judas when I see him!"

I guess maybe in my thought process, the "actual truth" is less important than the "perceived truth". It is for this reason that I say both can be true. One of the definitions of believe is "to accept as true."

Tony,

My response is that there are TRUE beliefs and FALSE beliefs. If I believe that ECU won the 2005 NCAA basketball championship, I may be sincere in my belief, but I would be sincerely WRONG. We need to make every effort to make sure we search for the truth, not for what we like personally.

I think if there is more than one way to Heaven other than by Jesus sinless life and His death on the cross, then the Father owes Jesus an apology. Jesus specifically asked the Father if there was another way in the garden of Gethsemane.

It is not mean-spirited or intolerant to warn someone of danger if in fact there is danger (Hell, for example). If I warn someone not to walk in the middle of I-40 during rush hour, that's not mean; that's showing compassion.