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If a person is here illegally, why are they entitled to any consideration the legal citizen has? Should they be allowed to sue for discrimination? In my opinion NO!! Being illegal does not entitle them to be protected by American civil liberties laws.

They come here voluntarily and illegally. Why should we make exceptions and concessions? If they feel discriminated aganist, well, duh, let them go home where they are not illegal and won't be discriminated aganist.

Americans are justified in feeling anger, frustration and resentment toward the situation of illegals. We are being manipulated and browbeat into feeling badly if we speak out and express our concern about this illegal invasion. We're expected to support them with our tax monies, say thank you for robbing us blind and keep our mouths shut lest we be thought intolerent and bigoted.

But this is our home and we have uninvited guests who want to take every last morsel we have AND feel entitled to it. They want to break out laws and then be protected by them. Illegals and their supporters want the rest of us to turn a blind eye to their illegality and reward them for it.

My fellow legal, tax paying citizens: It is crucial we not let those who want to dictate to and manipulate us champion the illegal cause while trampling on every right we have as legal, American citizens. Stand up and say no, hell no, to illegal infiltration.

"Illegal" means "against the law". Citizens of another country who avoid Customs and smuggle themselves into the US are in violation of Federal Law and are therefore crimminals.

Crimminals should be arrested and placed in jail.

However, the current administration has decided to defecate on the US Constitution rather than to enforce it.

IMO, the only right a crimminal illegal alien has is the right to be immediately deported once they are caught.

Mexicans need to fix Mexico's problems instead of running away from them.

Well said Yvonne and Hugh! Illegals have NO RIGHTS! PERIOD. There should be no discussions, no consessions and no effort made to help these illegals in any way. Our borders are open to legal, law abiding immigrants. That has been a constant (other than directly after 9/11) in our country's history. Our welfare, disability insurance and social security insurance are all going to be robbed blind by illegals with false identifications.

We need not be afraid to speak out on this issue!

If you are sick and tired of the illegal invasion, please go to www.numbersusa.com From that website, you can fax your worthless President and congress and the senate and let them know just how you feel about their love of the illegals.

*raises hand and asks the lawyer a question*
How can illegals file lawsuits for discrimination OR ANYTHING, if they aren't LEGAL US citizens? Who pays you?

He'll get paid by the groups that already help illegals work the system. Where these groups get the money is another question. My guess would be the Mexican government that is reaping the benefits of US money set back to it's citizens.

i have a question for those who believe the illegal aliens have no civil rights and should be deported...if you and you family were in an awful car wreck and your daughter was in critical condition, would you turn down the assistance of an illegal if they offered it ? if you answer yes you would accept there help...then i suggest we put the shoe on the other foot and help them out of their critical situation. in an ideal world, each of these illegals would do the right thing and enter our country as the law requires, oops not an ideal world. i believe it is safe to say that each and every person who responds to this post has broken a law ( even intentionally ) but yet we stand in judgement of other law breakers? on a personal note, i do not like or encourage those of other countries to enter into our country illegally, but even if they do and i see they need assistance, i for one will offer it.....some call it compassion. i realize i will probably catch flak for this post, but i believe there is a higher law we ought to respond to.

compassion is one thing, sponging off my tax money is quite another.
Sure, I'll stop and help a mexican on the side of the road on a hot day with call full of kids, but I'll be damned if I appreciate my tax money going to pay lawyers and for cases they file for being "discriminated" against.

Oh PS Lemme get back to the original letter:
" Consider, from their perspective, if any laws relating to unlawful immigration status subject undocumented Latinos to discrimination based on race.Do, or will, they result in any racial profiling? Will policies encourage undocumented Latinos to avoid police interaction? Will laws increase undocumented Latinos' worries about deportation for traffic offenses? Will unlicensed driving result in impoundment of vehicles that are necessary to keep a job? Will policies increase undocumented Latinos' fears of deportation? Do any of these issues have "context" relating to one's civil rights?"
K, first of all"
" Consider, from their perspective, if any laws relating to unlawful immigration status subject undocumented Latinos to discrimination based on race.Do, or will, they result in any racial profiling? Yes they do and they will, so what?
If they were here legally this would not be an issue.
2. "Will policies encourage undocumented Latinos to avoid police interaction? Will laws increase undocumented Latinos' worries about deportation for traffic offenses? " Of course, but if they were here legally this would not be an issue.
3. "Will unlicensed driving result in impoundment of vehicles that are necessary to keep a job?" Yes I hope so, and they can always take the bus to their illegal job. Infact I recommend it, it would be alot safer for us out here.
4. "Will policies increase undocumented Latinos' fears of deportation? Do any of these issues have "context" relating to one's civil rights?"
None of the issues you raised counselor have any "context" in my opinion relating to one's civil rights. If you aren't a citizen, you should not be entitled to the same "civil rights".
I'm done.

You're right Buz, we shouldn't be judgemental to criminals. Let's just be forgiving and open up all the prisons. Perhaps you'd like to rent a room to a serial killer? If they attack you, I guess it's "Oops, not an ideal world", right?

I never cease to be amazed at the ability of some to turn any activity, illegal immigration in this case, to a racial and civil rights issue. I would feel the same if the folks were from England, Canada, Poland, etc., no matter their color, sex, race, sexual orientation or religious beliefs. The issue of illegal immigration continues to be contorted under one of these umbrellas. For gosh sakes, be honest about your underlying desires.

perhaps your words " I'll be damned " are more prophetic than you might imagine. what is the greatest gift one can give another ? interesting how you can mess with a lot of people's stuff....but when it comes to messin' with their money watch out ! you will notice i concur with most about the tactics used by 'illegal' aliens entering this country, i do not condone their abuse of our legal system anymore that that of any U.S. citizen. seems i am approaching this subject with my heart and not my wallet, i won't apologize for that. remember we should consider ourselves blessed to have been 'born' in this country and by default we are its 'citizens'....those less fortunate probably expect the greatest nation on earth to share it's resources. there is coming the day when the U.S. will not be as blessed and it's citizens might possibly want to flee to some other country for a better life...how would you want or expect to be treated?

Right again Buz. I'm wanting to flee right now. I just don't think I'll get very far because other countries aren't as stupid as ours.
Oh, you should email the Mexican government and tell them to remove the troops they have on THEIR southern border to keep out the unfortunates wanting to cross their border.

here is where we differ. i am not compelled or controlled by the right or wrong actions of others, that to me is pretty much the herd mentality. if you want to do everything in your power to keep aliens from crossing our borders, that is your choice. are you willing to personally go defend our borders or are you more comfort only to identify the problem(s) and then let others do the actual work ? when i was a manager in a large corporation, my people knew to bring possible solutions along with their problems to the table. it takes no genius to see a huge hole in the ground, however it does challenge us to put on our "thinking caps" and contribute to solutions. what are you bringing to the table ? as i see it you are "part of this country", are you labelling yourself as stupid as well or just the politicians which we put into office ? hmmmmmm......??

Buz-

You raise some valid points. Let us address them:

1)you said in an ideal world, these people would enter the country legally. But this isn't an ideal world. You're right. This is a rough world, and we are a country at war. We have been attacked on American Soil by terrorists that have sneaked in possibly through the Canadian and Mexican borders. I realize not all people that come into this country are terrorists, but if they have come in illegally, then they are criminals.

2) You said it was safe to say every person who responds to your post has broken a law. I have. I admit it. Guess what else...I was punished. I sure was. Thank God I am an American citizen otherwise I likely would have been deported. So by breaking American law and coming to this country illegally, you deserve to be punished. Deportation is a the best form of punishment.

3)You accuse the American people of standing in judgment. I don't feel that is the case. What we are doing is standing up for our rights. Because we are tired of being taken advantage of. I know many countries have it worse than us. And my heart goes out to the people that suffer. But we have laws for a reason, and your post suggests we should pick and choose which laws to enforce. You suggest that illegal immigration is something we should turn our heads to. When an illegal alien from Nigeria, or the Czech Republic breaks into your home and rapes and murders your daughter, will you still look at them with compassion? With your heart instead of your wallet? I doubt it. I am not singling out Mexicans, or Muslims, or even the Irish. I don't care the race...I just care that we are protecting our borders in these troublesome times. Our laws are there to be enforced. And Buz, if you think our country is the only one to do this, go ahead and try to get into Canada without crossing at a check point. If you make it, (that is a big IF), you will find that if discovered, you will be deported faster than you can say "Oh Canada!"

It's kinda like that old sign that says "I don't swim in your toilet, don't pee in my pool". I don't go to Mexico and break their laws so don't come to my country and illegally break my laws. If you do, you should suffer the consequences. It's sad that we put our own citizens in jail for breaking the laws, but we even consider giving illegal aliens the benefit of in-state tuition when they are breaking the law just by being here.

I love Mexican people. I know that they are trying to do the best for themselves and their families. So, my anger isn't directed at them nearly as much as it is the politicians who are tying law enforcement's hands behind their back. Fine any busines $1,000,000 for every illegal alien found working for them illegally ( and work hard to catch them), and I bet the problem will cease to exist in 1 year.

you misunderstand me if you think i am suggesting we turn our heads to illegal immigration. i made it clear i believe our laws should be adhered to. all i am saying is this, i personally cannot stop illegals from coming into this country, but what i can personally do is act in a manner that reflects my beliefs, i can be compassionate, caring, giving and forgiving, regardless of where they are from or how they got here. i certainly hope that nigerian dude doesn't come to my house and try that stunt. you cannot speak for me on this matter as you did. in all honesty i don't know for certain in what manner i would react, i know what is expected. you do well to thank God for being a U.S. citizen.

'truth' - it's easy to see where your heart is, for your anger is not directed at the illegals as much as towards our faulty systems that allow and even encourage these behaviors. i commend you on your logical and compassionate approach.

Just call me Lilly the Prophetess.

Okay, let me get this straight. That is if I can undertand Mr. Goulder's logic. A law that will apply to every immigrant across the board is discriminatory toward only one group of people who happen to have the vast majority of undocumented and/or illegal aliens. If something applies to everyone, then it can't be seated in discrimination.

The laws governing driver's license will apply to all "citizens" and not just to illegals. It is not there just to curtail the possibility of a foreign agent or illegal from acquiring a false identification, but keeps identity thieves from pilfering our nation's workers and families.

Most of the questions posed by Mr. Goulder in his seventh paragraph are baseless at the least and biased at best. For example, the "unlicensed drivers" question could apply to anyone and speculates that only undocumented/illegals would lose their car. Since they are undocumented/illegals they would lose everything and be sent back to "Go" like every other illegal alien. Another perplexing question issued is in regard to undocumented aliens and police interaction. Of course they won't seek interaction. Once again, if discovered they could be sent back whence they came. I fail to see how that would change with a lax immigration or driver's license law.

Most importantly is the question raised by the statement that immigration status is a henderence to civil rights. My understanding is that civil rights apply to naturalized and legal citizens of this country. To use the questioning theme, is there some sort of international civil rights law that applies to people everywhere? If so, why isn't it used in the country of origin for these people? Why do they come here and use our civil rights? I know when people commit a crime in our nation or state they have certain rights removed and certain ones remain in place. If, through due process, undocumented aliens are found to be illegal should they not be subjected to the laws of this land and deported to their country of origin without regard to their race?

It would seem this would become bit backward in the discrimination question. Mr. Gould is asking us to see that undocumented/illegal Latinos are a special case and be given special consideration because of their race. That is discrimination itself. It would be seperating one group from the rest because of race.

As an aside, I find it strange that an immigration lawyer would want things made easier for undocumented/illegals. Would not tougher laws mean more business for that type of lawyer?

Dats right Joe Schmoe.
If they were here legally none of this "attorney's" questions would even be an issue.
*looks around* where is that "attorney" anyway?

Joe, I am giving you more than a pat on the back for this incredible post. It is clear, concise and factual. No reference to anything personal; it stands alone. I could not have done it myself (you know, that woman thing about bringing emotion into everything). Therefore, I am soooo impressed. **** Four stars and counting.

Darn good post Joe....

Thanks people. I'm trying to tone down the "gotchas" and such. Okay, back to the graduation thing on the other string. Then to the garden.