News-Record.com

Kurt's right of course. Never admitting that they're wrong has been a strategy that has been successful for Reps.

While it is politically successful it means that we never have a serious debate of the issues and therefore most problems are growing undebated and unresolved.

When we replace the people in office with people that love our country more than they love power and their party then we'll start making progress. Until then we deserve what we get.

Once again I see the libs starting a letter on false pretenses."The United States bears no guilt for it's acts of torture and murder". Where is the proof of "torture and murder"? Once again everything else in this letter becomes meaningless.
"Increasing the wealth of the wealthy". Another liberal tactic meant to make us hate the rich. (who, by the way, foots over 80%of the tax bill in this country)That means foots the bill for 80% of the social programs the left loves.
And last, but certinally not least, no lib letter would be complete without bringing "the children" into the fray. I agree with Kurt Lauenstein that the public education system in this country is woefully inept, but throwing more money at it will not solve the problem. Teachers cannot rule the classroom anymore. They have been bound and gaged by the left in this country. I have known several unrully students who were given a passing grade in order to just get rid of them. The long term answer here is the privatization (spelling) of our education system.
"Underfunding new approaches". We already spend more on education in this COUNTY than most countries spend. The problem lies with an overbloated county government which is more intrested in increasing their own pay and preserving a "lunch counter" down on elm st. If you want to rail against something Kurt, rail against that.

"Another liberal tactic meant to make us hate the rich. (who, by the way, foots over 80%of the tax bill in this country) That means foots the bill for 80% of the social programs the left loves."

And the Republicans in Washington are doing everything they can to change this, shifting the tax burden to the middle class just as fast as they can. Ironically, this is the same middle class that Republican policies is exterminating by driving it downward, thus further shrinking the tax base, part of their overall attempt to destroy the American economy for decades to come by shackling it with unsupportable debt.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5689001/

Tony

In time of war does it make sense to initiate ANY tax cuts at all? We have a huge deficit, much of which is due to the expenses that war brings. If the Republicans are TRULY patriotic, why won't they chip in their fair share?

"part of their overall attempt to destroy the American economy for decades to come by shackling it with unsupportable debt."

Tony,

I don't really think that it is the Reps intent to destroy the American economy. They do want to destroy the governments ability to sustain any program not geared toward the wealthy as YDs above complaint would indicate.

Shifting the tax burden to the middle class as fast as they can? No evidence is offered here,just Ted Kennedy/Howard Dean talking points.
Why does the left hate the well to do so much? There are a few of them (ie:Ted Kennedy)who was born into it and never produced ANYTHING),but most of the wealthy people in this country earned it by a lifetime of hard work and very long hours.
If it weren't for these industrious people the middle calss would have no jobs.
No, the republicans aren't perfect in their tax policies,but they are at least more intrested in passing laws that let the working class keep a little more of it every week. As compared to the democrats whose solution to EVERYTHING is to raise taxes. By the way, I will say this: when taxes are raised on the "rich", and let's just say one of those rich people is the CEO of let's say microsoft, do you think he just rolls over and pays the increase? No way, my friends! He simply passes it on to the rest of us in the form of higher prices for the goods he sells.

Tony said: "And the Republicans in Washington are doing everything they can to change this, shifting the tax burden to the middle class just as fast as they can."

Our state government is run by Democrats so let me ask you are the rich the only ones who buy gas, food and clothes, have utility bills, cell phone and cable? Have you ever taken the time to look at your phone bill? Mine I pay over $10 a month just on taxes and fees. Have you ever looked at your cable bill? Once again over $10 in taxes alone, not to mention the $3 "franchise fee"? Ever heard of that, do you know what it is? It is a "fee" given to Guildford Country Board of Commission. Speaking of our local board of Commission, are the rich the only ones to have property? Even if you live in an apartment, you know with the tax increase rent will go up. City of Greensboro, aww their wonderful "rain runoff tax", only the rich pay that? Here you have 4 government bodies one is Republican all the other ran by Democrats. One wants to give a tax break to everyone who pays taxes in, the other raises taxes on life's basics (sales tax on food, tax on utilities, gasoline tax etc. etc.) Now you tell me who is shifting the tax burden to the middle class?

Nice liberal letter bashing everything about the majority party of Americans who don't like your liberal ways and ideas.
President Bush inherited an unbelievable mess created by 8 years of disastrous liberal control. He's done a remarkable job at getting our country back on track, out of Clinton's financial morass, and protecting us with a military decimated under Clinton.
You should get on your knees every day and thank God we have a President and our military for protecting your right to dissent.

Way to go Manny. Don't remember seeing you post here before. Every month like clockwork, the N&R features a letter from Dr. Lauenstein and also Gay Cheney. They are always the same, Bush is bad, evil, a liar, war criminal, hates poor people, etc. And now Bush is childish. It's the same drivel each month.

Trish, you bring up a great point. EVERYONE who pays taxes got a tax cut, not just the rich. Problem is the greedy states saw this as a way to line their pockets with new taxes of their own.

Ironically, you still get crap like Tony's statement: Republicans in Washington are doing everything they can to change this, shifting the tax burden to the middle class just as fast as they can."

News flash Tony, rich people don't care if their cell phone tax goes up, they just pay it. It is the middle and lower classes that get hurt, thanks to Gov. Sleasley & his fellow dems with their incessant tax hikes.

Please don't try and reason with the liberal lame brains. Let them jump up and down and whine like the sore losers they are. The only thing they've done the last five years is blame everything on Bush and every time the open their pathetic mouths the Republican majority gets larger so let them be. Being "led" by Howard Dean should guarantee us that Hillary will be whining and fuming in '08. So you libs keep up the Bush bashing and the lying and so on and we will keep running the show

Well said, heelsluva.

"So you libs keep up the Bush bashing and the lying and so on and we will keep running the show"

You guys are doing a great job (;-}

Could we trade apologies?

If the Liberals will apologize for the Clintons then I would consider some kind of apology for something the Conservatives have done.

Mac,

I don't want to trade apologies. I just want to discuss these things in an adult manner. Not having 2 sets of people trading mindless "on message" charges against Bush, Hillary, whoever.

I wish the words liberal, rightwing, leftwing, conservative would be excised from this board. Then perhaps thought would ensue.

Mr. Marshall, how about just excising the left wing whackos?
You know who you are...

Mashall said: "I just want to discuss these things in an adult manner. Not having 2 sets of people trading mindless "on message" charges against Bush, Hillary, whoever."

Ok Marshall, I agree and will take you up on that offer. I will take one point from the letter that affects me personally: "One favorite example of White House childish logic is increasing the wealth of the wealthy because they are wealthy"

Let's discuss the increase the wealth for the wealthy. Here is my situation: I make under $25,000 a year here is what I pay in taxes a year:

I pay roughly $30 dollars a month in taxes and fees on phone, power and water (now I live in the county so I do not have a rain tax on my water). Total for the year $360.

Groceries: I spend about $200 a week on food and household items. Now since I cannot break out what is food and what is household, I will go with the lower food tax of 2%. So in a year that would equal $200.

Now I have 2 kids I have to cloth, so I am going to take the lower estimate and say on an average each year I spend $500 to cloth my kids. Add $35 in taxes a year I pay.

Property taxes: Roughly I spend $1000 on the house and another $25 on my car (the car is 15 years old). Total $1025.

Other taxes: Car each year I have to register it $25, inspection another $35. Total $60.

Now as an estimate say I spend $1000 a year on olds and ends. That would be another $70 (this is a low estimate).

Now I am the working poor, so I do not pay into federal and very little to state. Although I still have to pay into social security and Medicaid a low estimate of $2000 a year. So I am one of those people that isn't poor enough to get food stamps and forgo the taxes on food, but at the same time I'm not rich enough for an income tax break to effect me. I pay a total of $3750 of my earnings a year to the government. Now I am a voter who in your opinion is going to benefit me the most? Now since I am the average American and I am worried about bills needing to be paid, clothing and feeding the kids etc. I am not interested in the social issues of abortion, gay rights etc. etc. I want to know how I can keep more of my money what little of it I have. So in an adult manner, no talking points, let's discuss who in your opinion would be the best person/party that I could vote for. Who would make me poor (taking more money) and who is going to make me wealthier (giving me back some of money).

Trish, Get your salary cut by about 40% or so and you can take advantage of all the social programs that so called rich people like me pay for.

Lon,

According to many on this board I am a leftwing whacko which is OK I've been called worse. I just don't see the point of this board if we talk past each other which is what happens when we call each other names.

Dan,

Without knowing your exact status I'll say you are a rich person as are most folks in this blessed land. Celebrate the 4th by enjoying your blessings and not resenting their costs. Be glad you are a contributer to this world even though you don't always get to choose how your bounty is used.

Have a happy 4th all.

YARD DOG -- read Wealth and Democracy - you will then probably retract this: " 'Increasing the wealth of the wealthy' [is a]nother liberal tactic meant to make us hate the rich." ... and your other writtings in here.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/product-description/0767905334/ref=dp_proddesc_0/103-0622969-8131015?%5Fencoding=UTF8&n=283155

If you really believe "...most of the wealthy people in this country earned it by a lifetime of hard work and very long hours ..." then with all due respect you must have had a lobotomy.

�et al: Please take this as constructive criticism for all of us - and forgive my soapbox - but this is NOT about liberal and conservative politics. We have been distracted into arguing about this and other drivel while BOTH the Dem's and the Rep's are letting those with power and money brutally rape and completely pillage this country.

Dan said: " Get your salary cut by about 40% or so and you can take advantage of all the social programs"

Thanks Dan, but I will have to pass on that one. I hate standing in lines, and hate handouts. But thank you for taking the time to offer a solution and discuss it like an adult with no parties names getting involved.

Trish:

I wish I could tell you whom to vote for .. "giving back some of money".

I will suggest the rich and powerful have [and continue to] manipulated the system to the point that all the money goes to them, and you get Ka-ka.

It should not be how can you get more of your money back - it should be how to pay you a living wage, how to assure your kids are well cared for, and how you can get a little extra to save for retirement. To make all that happen, the rich bastards might have to survive on a few million instead of a few tens-of-millions - and they are not going to let that happen.

To me, your story is a Classic Example of this issue. Perhaps I'm single minded in this quest, but hey - I've adopted Rove's strategy, and it's working for Georgie!

James said: "It should not be how can you get more of your money back - it should be how to pay you a living wage, how to assure your kids are well cared for, and how you can get a little extra to save for retirement."

Now my question to you James is this: I do earn a living wage, which could be a lot more but that is my choice (I didn't care to go into sales) but why is it the government and or businesses job to "assure my kids are well cared for", they are my kids I had them so they are my responsibility, why would they be the government and/or businesses business? (Yeah I know that doesn't sound right but hopefully you get my point!) Also that goes as well to my retirement. Why do I need someone to take care of me? Am I not capable of doing it myself?

Also James, I want to ask you something, not being smart or anything, just curious. You seem to dislike rich people in general and business in particular. Why? Why should rich people have to live off less? If they make it what right do you or I have to take it away? I will say that I do not agree with all of these CEOs getting outrageous bonuses, (the airline industry is one, the CEO got a big bonus and the company was going under). That is not right, but who am I to say, "no you can't have that". The solution is don't buy or use the product and or company stock. There are a lot of big business companies, but so too are there a lot of the small business. I happen to work for one. My manger owns his own company, he takes all the risk, why should he be made to live on less to give me more when I don't take any and the risk. If the business fails I am not responsible and he is.

James, both the dems and reps are taxing us to death, but what party squeals the loudest when a tax cut is mentioned? The dems are the party of big government. And to me big government means higher taxes. (social security,welfare, medicare,medicade) and if they had their way,they would also rob us of even more $ to make healthcare an entitlement.
And who is "all of us"? You? Mr. neutral?

To whoever it was who asked for the numbers on the shifting of the tax burden from the wealthy to the middle class, did you click on the link? Did you read the article? Did you comprehend it?

Here it is again:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5689001/

Tony

Tony said: "Did you read the article? Did you comprehend it?"

Yes I did comprehend it. It went something like this you and I go into the store and each by a box of corn flakes. You pay with a ten, I pay with a hundred. I get $95 back, you get $5 back. You proceed to complain to the clerk because you didn't get the same change I, who paid more, did.

Or what about this example:

Suppose that every day ten men go to a restaurant for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If it was paid the way we pay our taxes, the first four men would pay nothing; the fifth would pay $1; the sixth would pay $3; the seventh $7; the eighth $12; the ninth $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until the owner threw them a curve.
"Since you're all such good customers, he said, I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20." Now, dinner for the 10 only costs $80. The first four are unaffected; they still eat for free. Can you figure out how to divvy up the $20 savings among the remaining six so that everyone gets his fair share? The men realize that $20 divided by 6 is $3.33, but if they subtract that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being paid to eat their meal. The restaurant owner proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay under the same assumptions: Now the fifth man also paid nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventh paid $5, the eighth paid $9, and the ninth paid $12 leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of $59.
Outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a dollar out the $20," complained the sixth man, pointing to the tenth, "and he got $7!"
"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got seven times more than me!"
"That's true," shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $7 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"
"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor."
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night he didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They were $52 short!
And that, boys, girls, and college instructors, is how America's tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table any more. After all, there are lots of good restaurants in Switzerland and the Caribbean
Author unknown

Does that explain it?

Also, I would like an explanation of "rape and completely pillage this country". And how about a few names of those who "rape and pillage" this country.(I'm willing to bet right now that list would include about 99% conserative republicans right)?
Trish has it right about overtaxing the "rich" to a point of not returning to the table. Also the libs in DC define "rich" as a household of 2 with 70K income. Go figure.
And yes,mr.Rockefeller, as A matter of fact I HAVE had a lobotomy. It saved my life.

And yes, I paid for it with private insurance and out of pocket expences.

I love republicans. I think it's the way their beady eyes twinkle when they talk to each other. They are so easily trained to think as one because they are mindless in the beginning. Don't ever change. Lie, steal, cheat, twist words and phrases, and make sure to belittle your fellow man. I have a position here for each and every one of you. HA!HA! HA! HA!HA! HA!HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA!HA! HA! HA!HA! HA!HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA!HA! HA! HA!HA! HA!HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA!HA! HA! HA!HA! HA!HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA!HA! HA! HA!HA! HA!HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

Satan, A good dose of Nyquil might help.

Marshall, I am very "rich" to have a wonderful wife, two healthy happy children, and a decent home. That is still not going to calm me over sending huge amounts of my earnings to the government for them to waste half of it. I would rather keep more myself thank you.

Trish, you are a remarkable woman. You don't earn a lot of money, but you accept the responsibility to take care of yourself and your children without whining about someone else doing it for you and paying for it. If more people in your income bracket would think like you, we wouldn't have so many whiners like JDR spouting all this class warfare nonsense.

I started my own business in 1998. The first month I made $14!! But I worked hard, took the risk, and it paid off.

This is one of the few countries in the world where initiative and hard work can pay off. Sadly though that is changing to the point where initiative is penalized and demonized by tax & spend politicians and the likes of JDR.

HA!HA! HA! HA!HA! HA!HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA!HA! HA! HA!HA! HA!HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

Dan....you are the MAN!!!!! At least for a while!

HA!HA! HA! HA!HA! HA!HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!HA!HA! HA! HA!HA! HA!HA! HA!HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

Very True: This is one of the few countries in the world where initiative and hard work can pay off.

Not true is that is changing to the point where initiative is penalized and demonized by tax & spend politicians and the likes of JDR.

I am all about small business - I am one myself. But when corporation become so large and powerful that they do what they want, running roughshod over every one else - it goes against what America stands for.

I do not dislike rich people and business - I do dispise the maniplulation of the system for thier personal benefit - and if you need examples, you are blind, being silly, or in denial.

It has reached the point where one cannot simply not buy or use the product and or company stock. It is insipid, and ruining our country.

I never said the government or businesses job should assure your kids are well cared for. That is your job - but the government has a responsibility to assure you the food is safe (it's realy not), our natural resourses are renewed (they are being mined), the water is safe (it is ruined in many places) etc. etc. I'm generalizing, but there are plenty of examples.

Frankly - if at this point in your life (you is the everman you), and you don't see it or even have a clue, then nothing I say will be of value - but by golly, you might wanna do a little research.

just to lighten things up:

Patricia Derian, during the 1940s ... described a typical lobotomy, performed in an amphitheater with witnessing doctors:

"As each patient was brought in, Dr. Freeman would shout at him that he was going to do something that would make him feel a lot better. The patients had been given electroshock before they were brought in .. The shock was the only medication they received, he gave them nothing for the pain, no anesthesia, no muscle relaxant.

"After the patient was placed on the table .. Dr. Freeman with his instrument [the icepick] ... he would plunge it in. I suppose that was part of his surgical technique, if there's a technique for such surgery. You probably have to plunge it in to break through the back of the eye socket. He lifted up the eyelid and slid the icepick-like instrument over the eyeball. Then he would stab it suddenly, check to be sure the pictures were being made, and move the pick from side to side to cut the brain."

The lobotomy victim�s "sacrifice" was substantial. "an area essential to the human being - his personality - is forever destroyed".