News-Record.com

I wish I could complain about my pay scale and someone would listen. The only option I have is to accept it or find another job that pays better.

And, I've heard that people with Master's degrees make more money in the school system than do undergrads. Maybe an advanced degree would help?

IMO, the education system needs a complete overhaul back to the basics of reading/riting/rithmatic and drop all the social "can't we all just get along" material. That social agenda crap eats up way too much time that could be better used for actual learning.

Put the kids in uniforms, send the underachievers to vocational schools and boot the disciplinary cases to reform schools.

(Any grammatical errors on this post are the result of a public school education.)

Oh yeah, if there is any way possible, please homeschool your kids.

Why is Gov. Sleasley taking more of our tax dollars for education and then reducing expenditures for education?

Agreed Hugh, the social agenda crap needs to be nixed, like Deena Hayes paying $45,000 to Reverend (I use that term loosely) Barndt to brainwash our teachers that all whites and institutions are racist.

What I find distressing about the "Counterpoint" is that NOTHING is listed about the bonus' received when those goals are met. And we hear each year of the countless dollars spent to fund such bonus'.

I want to make it extremely clear that I am not against teachers, what I am saying is that the bottomless "educational pit" needs to be filled in with something other than dollars.

I only ask Mr. Blair, where does he expect the money to come to fund these expenditures? Seeing that he lives in Thomasville (Davidson County), there are some 900 people who will be unemployed by the end of 2005. One corporation will be gone due to this and another will be greatly reduced. Thereby, no more corporate taxbase. The individual taxpaying citizen cannot continually be expected to pay for ANY state administration or legislative body's educational spending plans.

If Mr. Blair wants to talk about teaching expectations and low pay, talk with a retired educator. I have a few contact names if he so desires!

Know what teachers do with that extra time during the summer? Write letters to the editor.

What happened to the $75M our "education governor" robbed from the citizens recently to improve education? (no,ed I can't name the citizens)

I appreciate all the comments in regards to our education system and budget. I must clarify some key points that affect this issue. First, on bonuses - there has not been the money for these bonues lately. We are NOT getting them. Also, we spend enormous amounts of our own paycheck to buy teaching materials for our classrooms. Second, legislators (state house and sentate) are the ones attempting to make these cuts in education, not the govenor. In his proposed budget, Easley made no mention of cuts to education or school personnel. Lastly, the positions that are being cut are already being paid for. They aren't new spending. What they are is more jobs that will be lost that will increase the detriment to our state economy. Also, ask your retired teacher friends how much they worked on their own time. Do factory workers take their work home? We spend extra hours daily. We have veteran teachers working in their classrooms until 7-8 PM. These are teachers who have been at it for 30 plus years and know what they are doing. The next time you have to work this many hours for so little money and so little thanks - let me know how you feel then.

Brit, one thing you ought to bear in mind is Factory workers no longer have the benefit of Job Security while Teachers do. I really can't remember the last time a teacher with a NC teacher's certificate was laid off.

If you have been a teacher for several years you should remember these "cut the budget at the expense of the schools" threats are as routine as a Carolina Hurricane in that they make their presence known every few years.

If you don't like the profession you should find another vocation. Life is too short to be unhappy . Relying on the State to make things better in your life is a poor way live, IMO.

Waaaa Waaaa Waaaa... Teachers save yourselves some trouble. You won't have to go through all that drama to get a raise. Just do your jobs, the money will appear magically. Trust me on this.
The Legislature loves you, you always get more than the EQUALLY hard working State Employees.
It has always remained a mystery to me why.

Brit, one of those retired educators was able to complete his work in the time allotted him during his "school day." He also obtained a Master's Degree in his field. His pay never say enormous increases due to that, which is different today. He reared four children. During his summer vacations, he did other work to supplement his low teacher income. The main thing is that he ENJOYED what he did enough to do the job with what he had and not belly ache about it. He did not have the luxury of getting bonuses if he his students learned enough to pass a silly standardized test!

And also remember waht Lilly has aluded to in her post; teachers ALWAYS receive some form of a percentage raise EACH year. The average state employee has received less than 5% pay increase in the 5 years.

If a teacher chooses to spend his/her personal finances for classroom supplies, then so be it. No one is forcing them to do this. With the dollars pumped into the school system, there should be funds adequate enough for the job to be accomplished.

At any job, when you are told you will have to produce better quality results with less staff and no more pay, there will be dissention. This issue however doesn't only affect school employees, but also every single child in public school in NC. Still think it's not a big deal? I am a parent of two boys also.
Also, I know there are always threats. I have seen many come and go without becoming reality, or becoming reversed shortly after they take effect. However, in the past there has more public outcry and resistence. I know that times are tough all over. I have friends and family who are out of work. But somehow I see the lack in support more as a lack of respect for the teaching profession. How are we supposed to get and keep decent teachers if this is how they are treated and viewed - as whiners and slackers? Perhaps most aren't aware that NC teachers are paid around $4,000 less than the national avarage (with bonuses included in the formula) and that teacher assistants pay is BELOW poverty level.
Also, most of us spend our summers in workshops and working part time. Regardless of how many years we have in, we are expected to earn 15 renewal credits every five years in order to keep our certification. It would be nearly impossible to do without taking summer classes. The ones that are free, don't give you any bump in your pay. If you pay for graduate school and get a masters you do get a slight bump in pay.

Even if teachers ARE paid $4000 less than the national average...so what?

Do you think most professions in North Carolina are paid the national average? The answer to that is no. Fortunately, the cost of living here is less than the national average too.

Let's get this straight. Most people respect good teachers. Respect is earned, not automatic. More than just respect, we expect. We expect you to educate our children because that is the job you agreed to do. We expect you to do your job without griping and complaining because you aren't paid the national average. We expect you to give your best to our children, regardless of the circumstances. That's what being a good teacher means.

Having said that, I'm sorry your job has frustrations. I can honestly say having worked numerous jobs in numerous fields, they ALL do. We all have to put up with BS on our jobs and most of us feel we aren't paid what we are worth. It's just part of life. Most of us can be sympathetic to a point. But that point has come and gone and I think most of us are just getting tired of hearing about how bad life is as a teacher.

I had a job that I hated and took a $10,000 a year pay cut to leave it. It was worth it to me to do it. What I didn't do is write a weekly letter to the editor about how my job sucks and how I expected the rest of the world to fix it.

This article prompted me to call Maggie Jeffus, a state rep from Greensboro and a retired teacher whose top issue is education.

What are these cuts coming down to local school systems? I asked her.

She couldn't say that there are cuts.

Granted, the budget is still in limbo. Anything can happen.

If I get some time in the next couple of days I'll try to put this question to some other legislators and find out if the state really is cutting funds for local school systems, even though it's raising taxes and increasing overall state spending. I'll post something on my blog, Off The Record.

Dear "truth",
I will not continue to argue with someone who is so obviously uniformed and vicius. It is clear that you are not interested in TRUTH. I know there will be no opening of such a closed mind. However, for the rest of those who read this, I want you to know that unlike most workers, our "product" is under constant public scrutiny. We are not asking you or anybody else in the world to "fix" our problems. We are asking our state legislators to do their jobs as required by our state constitution and FUND and staff our public schools. We have every right to expect a fair work load and fair compensation. State residents have every right to expect the schools to be funded considering what we pay in taxes. Teachers know that all tax money is not used wisely. That doesn't mean that our states teachers should be to blame or that our state's school children should pay the price.

My wife is a teacher in the public schools. She has the Master's. She will be Nationally Board certfied. She is an excellent teacher at the highest-performing school in Guilford County, which is nearly a year-round (11 months) position. The one month off she spent this summer helping her sister who was about to have twins (#4 & 5 kids) and attending the vaunted workshops.

Yet she will be making less than most so-called college-eduacted business graduates with a mere B.A.

In other states, in areas with comparable costs of living (see Sperling's BestPlaces.net) here on the east coast (think PA and NY state, or even parts of extreme northern New England), she would be paid 35% to 50% more than she is now. Granted, southern VA and SC, parts of GA are equally dismal as NC.

Guess where the brain drain of highly qualified teachers will be heading for the next decade? NC needs 10,000 new teachers per year, due to population growth (mostly immigrants). NC colleges graduate 3,000 per year. How are we supposed to attract those added 7,000? Lateral entry (people with no teaching credentails or experience student teaching)? Imports from India (many of whom speak better English than native North Carolinians)? Both of these are current attempts to fill the gaps. Lateral entry teachers quit on average after a couple years. Do we intend to outsource or brains along with our jobs?

How will the students of NC ever catch up? Performance on SATs, grade-level tests and the rest show us falling behind to those other states, not to mention China, Japan and India. Luckily, many "imports" go to college down here and stay a while, or return later in life. Otherwise, the NC economy would be dead in the water.

My wife is from these parts and wants to stay a while, but the grass is getting greener all the time (and with global warming, all that snow may not even be around to bother us).

" (and with global warming, all that snow may not even be around to bother us)."

Yeah right. We are the laughing stock of northerners the way we stampede to the grocery when one flake is in the forecast.

Forgot to add: Jim, you're going to need that extra 35 percent to pay the confiscatory property taxes in those yankee places you referenced.

Jimbo, take I40W to 52N then hit I77N. Then stop where the grass is greener.

*standing and applauding wildly for "truth"
It's too bad the "educator" cannot understand what you are saying, truth.
You hit the nail on the head in every paragraph.
*standing by for the fallout*

The writer talks about a "moral obligation" of our teachers.

It is true that we trust our childrens future to their teachers. Their education is important to their future success. Isn't this what matters the most? Isn't this their "moral obligation"?

The same "leaders" who do not worry too much about teachers salaries.. are the same "leaders" who worry only about teaching the "test".

If we had a New Superintendant & a New School Board...perhaps our children would have a better chance. If our children were the focus, who knows what could happen!

Violence has no place in our schools. Is there no concern about this? Is there no concern about disipline? Is there no concern about children who are not interested in learning? Why are they allowed to disrupt learning?

There are "so many" things to worry about, but some have salary on the very top of their list!

What you see here are symptoms of a larger than life problem!

Our VOTE is the answer!

Tax and spend is not the answer!!

"Is there no concern about children who are not interested in learning? Why are they allowed to disrupt learning?"

Come on Billy, A disruptive kid might get his feelings hurt if he/she were singled out for rude behavior. The parents and the ACLU could file suit for some type of manufactured civil rights violation (Like the kid ate too much sugar at a school sponsored festivity--can't say party as those have been banned at my son's school)

We can't have that now, can we?

Why does everyone keep coming back to salary increases? The issue is having enough positions to manage the the ever-increasing student population. Over 2,000 teacher assistant positions are slated to be cut. Teaching positions are slated to be cut. As I said, these positions are already hard to fill! The school I teach at had two behavior support positions that stayed empty for the majority of the year. The discipline issue is CENTRAL to why we need more people and higher salaries. We have discipline issues you would not believe! It is hard to teach in this kind of environment. But these are the kids who need us most! Administration says that managing behavior is part of our job. I agree to a point. The point is that teaching stops when behavior starts. Teaching of academic material doesn't resume until behavior has been dealt with. Not having the behavior support positions resulted in a lot of teaching time lost. In addition to the behavior support positions being vacant, we had teachers leave midyear because they couldn't handle the behavior. A sub ended up in one of these positions and the other went unfilled even by subs. Without better pay and more administrative support we will never fill these positions! We will end up even more short-handed.

hugh, dan, darryl, truth, yard dog, britt, lilly, and billy all right in a row trying to out hateful each other. You guys must be the most bitter people in gboro if not the whole state. You are truly pitiful you attack every one and everything. The sky in your world must be black. The amazing thing is the only people you choose to believe are Fox tele and am radio entertainers and repubs. Pitiful.

So Britt, is what you are saying, if you get paid more, you can better deal with the "behavior problems"? LMAO.
Sounds like you need to get into a different profession, or either STHU.
Instead of complaining, it would be alot easier to post your resume, with all your high qualifications on monster.com.

yellowdog, how dare you judge me and personally attack me and the others. We have the right to express our opinions just like YOU do, and that is what we did. We are not attacking anyone, or at least I'm not. Trust me yellowdog, when I come after you personally, you WILL know it.
So sit down, and get yourself calmed down. Everything is fine here. We are just expressing ourselves.

Yellowdog,

Whatever.

Britt Blair,

You choose not to argue with me because you can't argue against the truth. I am interested in the truth and I hate to see phony logic thrown out there without someone to rebut it.

Peace, Love, and Truth

I would be surprised if any of you who are complaining about teachers would take their job at at their pay and put up with the BS they do for more than a week (assuming you were qualified to take their job). IMO they deserve every dime they get and then some.

Not only are most parents today raising a bunch of little heathens who give teachers hell and are totally disrespectful, the parents themselves are a major detriment to teachers trying to teach. They uphold their children in the behaviors of the spoiled, rotten brats they are, don't get involved in their children's education and blame the teachers when their brats don't turn out to be stellar students. And parents are not teaching any personal responsibility because they accept none themselves.

Even the illegal immigrants, who should have NO American rights, are getting on their high horses about their kids not receiving a proper education even though they don't speak English.

I would suggest all of you who believe teachers should accept their plight, keep their mouths shut and go quietly into that good night take a little time to sit in a classroom for a couple of days. My guess is you may gain an inkling of what the big picture looks like and be glad there are people who still want to teach. I came away with a whole new perspective and appreciation.

Yvonne, you are correct. I would not chose that profession for some of the very reasons that you mention. However, I dont believe that means teachers should automatically get more money as a result of "hazard" working conditions. As far as I know, there is no "hazard" pay for teachers.
I've known some excellent teachers who were hard working, dedicated and actually loved and taught their students.
I raised 2 kids 4 years apart, I have first hand experience of dealing with teachers who were disrespectful to the kids, and basically hated their jobs but seemingly made it their purpose to return to work every day to make somebody's kids day hell.
I taught my kids it was ok to "question authority", as long as they did it in a respectful way, and ALWAYS did.
Some of their teachers couldn't deal with my kids IQ's being higher than theirs, and as a result, DRAMA ensued.
Adults, aka teachers who engage students in a battle of wits, and are disrespectful and act with impunity, should know better, and it is insane.

How will I ever get it through to you the basic economics of this equation. THERE AREN'T ENOUGH TEACHERS TO DO THE JOB! The reason is because too few people feel that the pay is fair in relation to the work load. The only way to fix the problem is to lessen the load or increase the pay. If Walmart didn't have adequate employees to do the job and lines were long and aisles were bare or messy, they would pay more to get the help the needed. Perhaps you child with the high IQ could explain it to you. If Walmart fails to do it's job you won't hear public complaints. If we can't do our jobs the children of the state lose out and the whole state becomes less competitive.

You sound EXACTLY like the teachers I referred to in my previous post Britt. "perhaps your child with the high IQ can explain it to you". What kind of sarcastic remark was that? Furthermore, was it really necessary?
BTW, I have 2 kids with IQ's off the chart. I suppose they could explain what YOU are TRYING to say, but I am not sure they can think that low.
Bottom line is, it is apparent from your posts that you dont like your job, post your resume on monster.com. I feel that alot of kids would be better off if you did.
I wish you only happiness in the future ok?
Please do everybody a favor and get out of teaching.

What do you mean by IF Wal-mart had long lines and messy aisles?

Truth - you make an excellent point.
Lilly, I am tired of stooping down to your level of attitude. You are bringing out the worst in me. I love my job and I love the students I teach - ask any parent or child I have taught. I am in teaching to make a difference. That is one of the reasons I am speaking up. I want these kids to get jobs not jail terms or welfare checks! Honestly, I would love for you to visit the school where I teach to see for yourself. I know that you would probably only see what you wanted to see though. There will be no enlightenment for someone who already knows it all. This will be my last hostile post. I will not change anything by reflecting your bad attitude. I will continue to do what I believe, as an insider with experience, is best for the children of our state. Hurl your insults. We are used to it. It hasn't stopped us yet.

Yvonne, you are my favorite liberal. Most of what you say is true. Maybe you would want to be on the School Board.

You correctly identified part of the problem (the parents). Could you also forget about being politically correct and identify demographically these thugs that claim to be parents?

We have little gangsters who listen and believe the crap they hear of the hip-hop generation who have their own language.

I did not to mention Spanish because it is a smaller problem.

Do you want all schools to be like Andrews or more like Northwest? What would you do?

If no one is willing to call a spade a spade, we have no chance of fixing the problem. Discipline is a parental problem.

The answer is to politely kick offending students out of school period. Let them start their formal education at the place prepared for them (jail).

Do you think more money is the answer? It has to come out of your pocket! Is current management going to use it more efficiently?

I think money is there to pay teachers more and I think "good teachers" should be paid more by merit, but will that "in and of itself" help our kids?

I believe teachers should organize (not unions)and say I'm mad as hell and I'm not not going to take it any more!

They should stand up and speak out. If management does not listen and change, then get their resumes dusted off! There are schools who will recognize and pay for talent!

No one should have to be tied to a school system who will not accept change and will not put our kids first!

Britt, it's a losing battle. If teachers are not able to chnage the backwards thinking of the students, you can be sure the level of logic on this blog represents the very parental environment that produced the problem.

I particularly enjoy the "love it or leave it" directions for the highways. When the average SAT in NC is 30% lower than competing states, and the accompanying salary for menial labor or retail puts the majority of NC residents in jeopardy for their health and welfare, the wisdom of saying "Go if you think it's better elsewhere."

The barbeque won't be enough to keep people down here, bubba.

MY level of attitude? LOL. Hey I'm not the one on here crying that I don't make enough money as a PUBLIC SERVANT.
You have the right to your opinions, and to express them. I do also.
If YOU detect some level of attitude in MY posts, honey, you need to re-read yours.
I never once said I knew it all, you said that. I will say in my favor, that I do tend to call things as I see them and am generally right. :)
Have a GREAT summer and I do really really wish you the best Britt. :)

I never once said that I don't make enough money. What I said is that we can't fill these positions. Nobody in teaching is doing it to get rich, believe me.

Britt- you spoke in an earlier post about teachers not getting bonuses...It's my understanding that teachers in NC who taught at schools who met ABC goals got $750 and if their school exceeded the goal, they got $1500. Are you saying teachers haven't been getting thoses bonuses and will not get one this year even if their schools meets or exceeds the ABC goals?

Britt, it's nice of you to contribute so much to this blog, that is rarely done by the original writer of the letter.

I believe you don't teach in Guilford Cty schoolds, but I'd like to know your opinion on the use of money in social engineering programs, such as the one I mentioned, Deena Hayes spending $45K on hiring a guy to tell all the teachers that whites are inherently racist and don't realize it. Or today's letter about Grier spending $120K on a position to identify problem students. I would assume all counties have their share of this type of spending.

To me this stuff is social engineering waste, money that could be used to hire the needed positions you so long for. If you agree, why are you teachers not up in arms about this wasteful spending?

As for the behavior problems, you teachers are hog tied in dealing with these monsters and their crappy parents, lawsuits, etc. am I correct? That is another part of the problem.

If my kids misbehave when they go to school, dealing with the teacher will be the least of their problems. Dealing with me and my wife will be much worse.

Dan, thank you for your kind comments. You seem to be very well informed. I do, however, work for Guilford County. As an employee, there are things I simply can't say publically about the County I work for. Let's just say I don't agree with everything that is done. I hope you understand my position. I don't go elsewhere because I am where I am needed. I would not want to work in a school like my sons' that has students who are going to learn easily. I want to be where I am needed most. What I want more than anything is for ALL citizens to learn and accept responsiblity for their own destiny and not expect handouts from anyone. There are students that do not believe they have a chance. Half of my battle is showing them that they do but that it requires work, determination, and good character. I will say that the school my sons go to allows spanking if parents sign a form stating that it is okay. Even then, they call you first. I told my boys that first day that I had signed the paper and that if I got a call about a spanking that they could expect to get another when they got home. I have never been called about behavior.

Britt, I understand your postition in not being able to say things for the entire world to see. If we were sitting alone over a cup of coffee, I'm sure the conversation would be different.

My kids are only 2 & 4, so not in school yet. We did try to get my 4 year old into Guilford County preschool, but were told at our income level we would need to have 18 children to qualify!! Mind you, we are not in a 6 figure income bracket. It's ironic that I pay more taxes for education, yet lower income folks and even illegals get the benefits while I'm shut out. Sooo, my first encounter with GCS has been negative.

I am very apprehensive about putting my kids in the public schools, in fact it scares the bejeezus out of me. Reason: social engineering by Grier and the school board, lack of child discipline from parents, lack of accountability from students and parents, and fear that my kids will not be able to learn.

Problem is I don't have the $$ for private school. We are going to try the public schools, but if the focus is more on social engineering than readin, writin, rithmatic, we may opt for homeschooling.

Dan,

I'm in the same boat you are. I've got a 2 year old and have to pay for everything myself.

My dilemma is that I want my kids to learn and I don't want them spoonfed someone's political viewpoint. I've seen it happen with my 12 year old and don't want to repeat it with my youngest.

Like you, I can't afford thousands of dollars in private schools.

At the same time, though, I'm apprehensive about the homeschooling thing. I'm afraid my kids will have that pale, deer caught in the headlights, introverted look every time they venture out into public.

That said, can anybody say anything positive about any of these magnet schools?

Truth, my kids both went to Brooks Global. I was at that school several times a week for 11 years straight.

The first few years the school was open it was excellent. It seemed that every teacher who really wanted to be there was hired, high caliber all the way.

The last 3-4 years we were there it seemed to go downhill, meaning it was just like every other school. The one thing I did like about year round was it made for a short summer to have to worry about putting the kids in camp or whatever to keep them busy during the work day.

Truth I will ask my wife about magnet schools, she just retired after 25 years in the Guilford county system. I have 2 grandchildren and I worry about what they will face in a few years. I'll get the skinny on magnet schools and report back on monday.

Truth I will ask my wife about magnet schools, she just retired after 25 years in the Guilford county system. I have 2 grandchildren and I worry about what they will face in a few years. I'll get the skinny on magnet schools and report back on monday.

"truth" you can begin home skoolin' now. Teaching ABC's, colors.. etc. 2 and 4 year olds are great ages to start this with.
I taught my 3 year old on his 3rd birthday his ABC's. Next thing I knew he was writing words himself. Momma how do you spell this, how do you spell that? LOL. It was cool. Oh and just because someone is poor, is NOT an excuse as to why they cant read. We did this in a composition book.
After that, your kids be "spot reading". Recoginizing signs as they travel with you in the car. Thats how mine did anyway. :) But as we all know, my kids have extremely high IQ's. :)
I stayed at home with them until they could talk in complete sentences, so we could talk about what went on at daycare. LOL. I think that is a very important thing.
I am so out of the loop about schools now, I really don't know what to say about public schools except I bet they haven't really changed that much since mine were there.
I was my kids first teacher. I think every parent should be. :)

I'm a teacher, and I'm rich.
I spend about 1/3 of my day actually working. I'm not sweating, but I'm doing tasks. The rest of my day I'm either reading a good book in a quiet classroom or listening to some kid tell me a funny story. I'm usually home by 4 with plenty of time to play with my daughter. During my almost three month summer vacation, I like to travel and relax. And, according to demographic projections, I'll easily move up the ladder as older teachers retire. Soon I'll find myself in a nice administrative desk job where I can sit and read all day long. Sweet.