News-Record.com

"Why must you show pictures in this article that have the words "stop war" and "why" in them"?
Well Tim, maybe it would be best to ask why these useless 'stars' were put on the fence to begin with. They were placed there by airheaded college students in order to make them feel as if they are accomplishing something when if fact they are a disgrace to the ones who have died in Iraq and all previous wars. And the n-r is more than happy to join in on their min- bash of the veterans.

To these poor misguided souls Jane Fonda and Michael Moore are the ones who should be honored.

Tim, I guess it is all in one's preception. If you support the war in Iraq, you think such actions are disrespectful. If you don't support the war in Iraq, you see it as kids making a statement because that is all they can do.

It might be helpful to remember you were once young and wanted to support a cause. Perhaps words and demonstrations were the only avenue available to you at that time.

I see a bunch of kids who take enough interest in what is happening in their world to try to make a difference. Call it disrespectful if you must. I call it getting involved.

Tim,
You must remember that President Bush took advantage of the holiday to attack anyone who opposed his foray into the Middle East. Karl Rove figured this would be heard by veterans and would be a rallying cry for Bush. It back fired.
Veterans thought it inappropriate for the day.

Tim:

Where have you been? Bush started a war based on lies and tampered intel data. Our sons and daughters in Iraq are now cannon fodder and they have no exit or mission strategy. Stop war and why signs are very appropriate. If you or any one else disagrees, by all means quit posting comments and go down to your local recruiters office to enlist.

Good point, PJTIII. I hope all our high school and college age students will take an active roll against the war. Their generation is the one being wiped out in Iraq. Mine was hit by Vietnam. Young men still fight old men's wars.

Go stand by the Vietnam Memorial, look at the names of those who died. 50,000 lost. We went to Vietnam to "fight Communism" while Cuba is at our door.

Bush has given us so many different reasons to fight in Iraq that I don't know what today's reason might be. While I still wouldn't have supported the war, I would have had more respect if we had just been told "We are going to Iraq so that we (the oil companies) can control their oil"

"Tim, I guess it is all in one's preception. If you support the war in Iraq, you think such actions are disrespectful. If you don't support the war in Iraq, you see it as kids making a statement because that is all they can do."

Hold on a minute the article clearly stated: “Members of the college's Political Science Club spent more than two weeks printing, cutting and attaching the paper stars to wooden sticks, creating a tangible reminder of the sacrifices of American troops and to honor Veterans Day.” Not to mention this: “The "2,000 Stars Project" was initiated by Milo Irsula, a 25-year-old middle school education major at GTCC. Though personally against the war, Irsula said the event was designed to be non-partisan. "We want to respect the soldiers," he said, "but don't want to step on any toes with the issue."

So please explain to me how if the purpose of this project was to be non-partisan you state it’s kids making a statement. So which is it? How can you be non-partisan making a statement about disagreeing with the Iraq war? Also as noted above, the article clearly states this was “a reminder of the sacrifices of American troops and to honor Veterans Day” so let me ask you, what about all the veterans, from all the wars? Were they honored by this display? What about the soliders who are wounded but didn’t die in Iraq, were they honored? Did you see a reminder of their sacrifices? What about all the men and women who served who wasn’t injured? What about their sacrifices? Where they honored?

"I see a bunch of kids who take enough interest in what is happening in their world to try to make a difference. Call it disrespectful if you must. I call it getting involved."
So Yvonne let me ask you what do you call a group of people who protest at soldier’s funerals: “They are professional protestors who protest across the country. They specifically protest soldiers funerals that have been killed serving this country” http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9961744 Would you call that getting involved?

"You must remember that President Bush took advantage of the holiday to attack anyone who opposed his foray into the Middle East."
Really Demon? Mind pointing out where he attacked “anyone who opposed his foray into the Middle East”? Here is the link to the speech http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/11/20051111-1.html, please copy and paste where it is in the speech.

"It back fired.Veterans thought it inappropriate for the day."
Do you have a link to the “veterans thought it was inappropriate”?

Ms. Dunn,

Would you mind telling me what subject you teach and whether it is in Guilford County?

Trish, I am a retired Guilford County business teacher. (that is why I have so much time to make comments...if you want to know my educational philosophy, read the school related letters and comments today) What do you do for a living?

I don't find the GTCC students' ribbons a "partisan activity". You quoted Milo. Why can't you just accept his statement and not look for hidden agendas? I think it is wonderful that this peaceful gesture was made by young people who are involved and care.

These students had nothing to do with protestors at soldiers' funerals, something we would all find unacceptable. Why bring this into the discussion?

Oops. They were stars, not ribbons.

Instead of looking for hidden agendas or intentions, I choose to accept this at face value as students honoring their peers that have paid the ultimate price in Iraq.

I support our war against Iraq but I also support our students ways to voice their feelings on fallen soldiers.

Carol, excellent points.

Trish, the first link noted that the protestors were from WESTBORO BAPTIST CHURCH. Does the name Fred Phelps ring a bell with anyone? Those protestors were there because, "They specifically protest soldiers funerals that have been killed serving this country just like David Martin........They were mad because the military doesn't discriminate against homosexuals." This is why this group was protesting. While I disagree on this point, if one is going to post a link to support one's point, at least post something that is revelant.

I thought the display was very appropriate and non-partisan. However, when one has an opposing view and looks for hidden agendas in what others do/say, then not much can be expected.

Shalom

"What do you do for a living?"

I am a mother to two school age children; I also work full-time in finance as well as attend college full-time.

"Why can't you just accept his statement and not look for hidden agendas?"I think it is wonderful that this peaceful

They care? About who? Just soldiers from Iraq, what about Afghanistan? Why no stars for those? Look for a hidden agenda, well according to the News and Record Editor, I need not look far as John Robinson stated to my post on his blog: “In fact, the political views seemed transparent to me....the story told readers what one of the organizers thought of the war.” followed by: “Was it a political statement, undoubtedly. But I think readers could recognize it for what it was.” So what does that sound like to you? Hidden messages or messages right out there for everyone to see. Secondly this article stated quite clearly in the opening paragraph that this was for ‘Veterans”, not Iraq Veterans, but all Veterans, did you see that? Because if so I must have missed it somewhere in the 2000 stars. The article needed to be up front and honest. State what it really was, “College students make statement about Iraq war”, why try to color-code it into “a way to honor Veterans on Veterans Day”?

"These students had nothing to do with protestors at soldiers' funerals, something we would all find unacceptable. Why bring this into the discussion?"

Well let’s see I quoted the following passage: “I see a bunch of kids who take enough interest in what is happening in their world to try to make a difference. Call it disrespectful if you must. I call it getting involved.” And I asked: “Do you call that getting involved”. So do you? That is their way of getting involved, what’s the difference in whether it is a bunch of loons at a funeral or a bunch of students on Veterans Day? How come to you it is unacceptable? Could it be that there is a time and place for certain events? Maybe making a political statement about the Iraq War is not an acceptable on Veterans Day, a day to HONOR ALL VETERANS. Not to get your statement in the news, but to honor them. Funny thing is, I just heard this in my public speaking class. I will quote right from the book: “protesting a war is not appropriate at a Veterans Day parade”, there is a time and place for speeches.Be aware of the event and the time.”)

"Instead of looking for hidden agendas or intentions, I choose to accept this at face value as students honoring their peers that have paid the ultimate price in Iraq."

Truth,
As I stated to Ms. Dunn, to me there were no hidden agendas. Maybe it’s because I know Ms. Walls personally. A very nice lady, a great professor but a “pinko-commie-leftist” her words by the way not mine. However even if I didn’t know about Ms. Walls, it only took the “2000 stars” to sum up the whole event. Especially since the “2000” was a big deal in the news for weeks before this. As if 2000 is some magical number. What about the 56 other soldiers who died in Iraq between Oct 25 and Nov 11? Why just the first 2000, is number 2001 any less important? I am really wanting someone to please explain to me the importance of the number 2000, what all the others after? And why just Iraq, are our soldiers in Afganastain any less important?

"While I disagree on this point, if one is going to post a link to support one's point, at least post something that is relevant."

Oh but it is relevant Darryl, it’s called a time and place for everything. Just like it is disrespectful to protest at a funeral, so to is it to make a political statement on Veterans Day, the one day we are to honor ALL Veterans.

“Does the name Fred Phelps ring a bell with anyone?”

Mr. Phelps protest more then just against gays. “God killed Cpl. Carrie French with an improvised explosive device in retaliation against the United States for a bombing at Phelps' church six years ago. Our attitude toward what's happening with the war is the Lord is punishing this evil nation for abandoning all moral imperatives that are worth a dime," Phelps said.” http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/228401_westboro14.html?source=rss

So as much as I wish it, I do not have time to surf the net and pick and chose which article to use, that was the first one, but since you seem to be under the impression that this soldier was protested because gays, I thought I would post another. However you of all people shouldn’t be bothered by this because aren’t you from the group that likes to carry around coffins in the streets of military families? What’s the difference in what Phelps does and what your group does?

“However, when one has an opposing view and looks for hidden agendas in what others do/say, then not much can be expected.”
Does that make John Robinson of the opposing view? I find it so funny that I have been accused of looking for hidden agendas when the editor of this very same newspaper informed me that it was “it a political statement, undoubtedly.” As well as being transparent. You aught to inform Mr. Robinson it wasn’t as transparent as he thought.

Oh and Darryl just for the record, in my opinion, any person who supports a group that carries coffins through a neighbor of military families wouldn’t know appropriate if it hit him square in the face.

Also since you think it was non-partisan, mind telling me why only 2000 stars? When 2056 had died by Veterans Day? Also how come only Iraq dead were honored, do you not feel that ALL VETERANS should have been acknowledge?

Trish, I don't know why they chose 2000 stars. As you said, it was probably because 2000 was in the news a lot, and we don't hear much about our soldiers in Afganastain. Also, I didn't read the original article. Were they displayed at a Veteran's Day Parade?

I also guess you can't include all those who need to be remembered because there so many, a sad fact to me. So many away from home, so many dead, so many in danger, and for what?????

I pray for your children and my children and grandchildren. They will have to pay for the war and its consequences.

I don't think anyone's funeral is a time to make a statement or protest of any kind. How can stars on Veteran's Day be compared to this?

Good luck with your college classes. I finished college with 2 kids, but I only worked part time.

Trish, if the heat gets too hot, leave the arena from which it comes.

Xanax also makes life easier.

Shalom

Having had Xanax a few times, I must agree. Pssst... you got any? :)

Maybe it was only 2000 because they ran out of materials to make more? Maybe it was all their budget could afford? Sorry I had to interject a bit of humor.

Carol: "I hope all our high school and college age students will take an active roll against the war. Their generation is the one being wiped out in Iraq. Mine was hit by Vietnam."

Their generation is being wiped out? Is this a metaphorical statement? I guess so because it isn't a factual statement. Even the "Greatest Generation" wasn't wiped out.

Trish: I haven't seen anyone answer your question about why all veterans or even those injured in Iraq or those from Afghanistan were not "honored". They can't answer those questions without admitting this whole thing was an anti-Iraq war political statement, that's why.

Hi Dan, I did get a bit carried away. Wiped out was not the right term. Losing many members of your generation in Iraq and elsewhere would have been more accurate.

The only ones who can answer the question about who was honored would be the GTCC students. I would love to hear from them. Are you out there, GTCC star makers? Also no one has told me where these stars were displayed. Does anyone know?

Thank you Carol for the good luck wishes.

Now it wasn’t a parade, and what I should have said was an anti-war speech given at a Veterans Day celebration was not appropriate. From what I gathered from the article, these stars where displayed on campus at GTCC and I think it was in front of the Tech building (not sure about the building but I do know they were on campus).

“How can stars on Veteran's Day be compared to this?”
By this way Carol, anti-war protestors, dissenter, whatever term you wish to give them have 364 days out of the year to get their political message out. Veterans have one day out of 365 to be honored. By honored I mean this is the one day ALL Americans should show respect and give thanks to those who serve in the military. Why spell out words: "why" and "stop war"? These men and women do not make policy, they did not vote to give the President authority to go to war. They are not the President and decided on war. They are men and women who sacrifice a lot to do a job, who volunteered to follow orders and to protect this country. They give their lives, they give up their lives (meaning being away from family for long periods of time, even in peace time), some give limbs all for very little money. Why is it so hard for you, Yvonne, Darryl and all the rest to just give thanks to these men and women without giving them a lecture? You think these men and women want to be away from home, in a hostile land, dying being maimed? Do you really think they need the message “stop war”? Why is it so hard to give our veterans one freakin day to say thanks for all you do? Just one day out of the year, and yet we see that is not possible, which is pretty pathetic. Would it have been so hard to maybe put a message that read "thank you"?

"Trish, if the heat gets too hot, leave the arena from which it comes."

The answers to my questions are where in your response? Get’s to hot? Please don’t make me laugh. I do not like to attack people but come on. My 13 year old daughter could debate you and run circles around you. You couldn’t debate yourself out of a wet paper bag. It is very hard to debate or defend an opinion when you have none. As we can see you couldn’t come up with any answers to my questions. Not even a comment on what the editor stated. What waiting for your friends to comment so you can agree? This is the comment I get, and yet you think it is getting to hot?

"Xanax also makes life easier"
I’ll leave the xanax to you. I am an optimistic person by nature. But since most know that liberals are a depressing lot of people, doom and gloom, whine and complain, nothing ever satisfies you and nothing is good in the world. Yeah I’m sure you would know better then me about using drugs to make your life easier.

Here is a clip from an interview with a former col.in the north vietnamese army about how the war was won:
Question: How did Hanoi intend to defeat the Americans?
Answer: By fighting a long war which would break their will to help South Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh said, "We don't need to win military victories, we only need to hit them until they give up and get out."

Q: Was the American antiwar movement important to Hanoi's victory?
A: It was essential to our strategy. Support of the war from our rear was completely secure while the American rear was vulnerable. Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9 a.m. to follow the growth of the American antiwar movement. Visits to Hanoi by people like Jane Fonda, and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence that we should hold on in the face of battlefield reverses. We were elated when Jane Fonda, wearing a red Vietnamese dress, said at a press conference that she was ashamed of American actions in the war and that she would struggle along with us.

Yvonne, I suppose it's all in one's 'preception' huh?

You are really reaching, neocon. It is definitely a sign you are on a losing team. Your tactics mimic the enemy, hammer away at those who speak with reason every chance you get hoping they will give up. Well, it will not work in your case, neo.

You don't have that kind of power. Of course, your beloved Bush doesn't let it stop him either. A fine, intelligent person you have chosen to be your mentor. Not!

Hey Neocon,

Did Yvonne answer your question? Or did I miss it somewhere in her Bush Degrangement Syndrome tirade?

Trish,

It would seem that Yvonne practiced the same tactics that she was acusing neocon of practicing. Hammer, away, but don't acknowledge the arguments of the other side. Jane Fonda and Ramsey Clark are indefensible. And, now, we have the same Ramsey Clark defending the Murderer of Baagdad. So, I guess the leftist arguments that Iraq is becoming more similar to Vietnam have some validity there. Now, all we need is Jane Fonda making an appearance as a character witness for Saddam.

... the point is, solid leadership would go a long way - routine and lucid citing of the reasons why we are there would undercut the wait-them-out strategy's our enemies successful use against us.

Keep in mind we won WWII in less than 4 years (the last war we out and out won, not counting incursions into Central America).

There's another issue - the size and diversity of America is both a strength and a weakness. Contrast with 'nam or North Korea (Germany, Japan) - all relatively small and easier to unify.

A third alternative would be China - with a 4000 year history of ruled by brutal we-say-so's.

Sorry James you lost me. What does "... the point is, solid leadership would go a long way - routine and lucid citing of the reasons why we are there would undercut the wait-them-out strategy's our enemies successful use against us." have to do with veterans? Are you saying that veterans, men and women in the miltary need to go about giving citings of the reasons they are there?

My point is this, the men and women who are serving this country and who have served deserve one freakin day for AMERICANS to say thank you. However by the post in this thread that seems impossible. For some reason people here seem to think that our veterans made policy so they need to get their message out to the military that they do not agree with the war in Iraq. How very disrespectful.

James,

Let me clarify just a big. What I was meaning to say above is, that the people on this blog who see nothing from with this display, care more about their opinions on the Iraq war then they do the veterans who serve this country.

Trish - I'm not really talking about Vet's day, just in general.

I'm talking about the folks in Washington - those are the "leaders" that we elected and who have let us down repeatedly. The leaders that are too busy rashing cash and following polls to effectively lead America - which is what they are suppose to be doing.

The speech Bush gave the other day should have come out 2 years ago, adn should be repeated often. Saturday radio talks should be nothing but the good things our military has done. Occassionally he should look down and see he is not walking on water. When his CIA director tells him it's a "slam dunk", he should ask for clarity, instead of assuming is means what ever he wants. He should read a newspaper. He should engage the American people, and that means not isolating himself.

He should listen to he Generals instead of firing them if they do not agree with Cheney's strategy.

My real fear is he has waited so long he's lost the military the support they need to do thir job. The asses are so worried about the next election they are squalking for the electorate.

As a lame duck he has nothing to lose but America - and he should give the American people lots of reasons to stay the battle, because this is the big one, babe.

ps. asses = political asses, which is I guess redundant

Trish, that's about as lucid an answer as you will get out of Yvonne when she has been proven wrong about the "bunch of kids who take enough interest...yada,yada,yada". The really sad thing is I believe these airheads (at least their professor) KNOW what they are doing is supporting the terrorists.

DemonDeacon,
You tell me to go down to the local recruiting office and enlist. I did that years ago and volunteered my time to defend this nation which allows people such as yourself to make comments without fear of persecution.