News-Record.com

Hey Benjamin - take a look at these quotes, and then let me know how you feel about how "every iota of evidence" being false. If the evidendce was false, then your beloved Democrats sure look to me like they were involved in the conspiracy. We are not a dictatorship, which is why we can't go to war without a vote from Congress. Next time you write a letter about "Mr. Bush" and his "multifarious mistakes", don't forget to throw your favorite Democrat under the bus as well.

P.S. Pay special attention to the quotes from Hillary.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." S
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
- Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
- Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
- Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" Rep.
- Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weap ons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members .. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

I saw throw the all bums out without any more debate or fanfare, and get on with saving America from the real dangers of Islamic Wackos, Far Right NeoCons, Far Left MarshMellows, Corporate Rapists ...

... that's a good starting list.

Chill, Ezekiel - these are all slimey politicians, and equal crap can be found in all corners. Watch what they do now what they say.

Problem with your theory, JD.

The Democrat politicians I quote above who had a vote put their words into actions and cast a vote to go to war. Yes, they are all politicians. Whether the war is right or wrong, I'm sure history will judge someday. However, you cannot place all blame for this at the President's feet. Like I stated, we are not a dictatorship, and if these people were so convinced the war was wrong, why in the world did they vote for it? I'm sick and tired of these people saying that the intelligence was doctored by the President. If he's the big stuttering idiot that these greasy liberals portray him to be, how in the world did he manage to pull the wool over their eyes? The fact is that for 8 years during the 90s, Clinton cut intelligence all over the board. If the intelligence to go to war was flawed, isn't it possible that it was because our defense and intelligence agencies were grossly under budget and under funded?

Sorry, JD, I forgot to comment on your original post.

You are more correct than you can imagine when you say let's just get rid of the Islamic Wackos, Far Right NeoCons, Far Left MarshMellows, and Corporate Rapists. But then we wouldn't have anything to argue about, would we?

Hey Ezekiel, check out snopes.com, who has done us all the favor of putting all those quotes into context:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

Read a little before you post out of context or misleading info, mmkay?

That being said, it sounds like the letter's author, Benjamin, hates America.

Hate America? There goes the patriotism shield again!

Ezekial's plan in the White House would go something like: "Quick, Dick, hide behind my shield of patriotism if anyone attacks you". "Okay W, sounds like a plan"

For the record, Charles Lindbergh was against the U.S. going into WWII and a few folks in Charlotte were so upset they renamed Lindbergh Drive into Avon Terrace. Lindbergh did not hate America, he just disagreed.

"Terror, terror, terror" has become like the boy who cried wolf, so now it is "unpatriotic" to criticize Bush. God Bless America!

"Hate America?"

Absolutely. I bet Benjamin supports the terraharists, too!

Hey Ezekiel, since we've gone down the road of posting quotes, who said this:

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."

??

One more, Ezekiel, because this is fun:

"You can support the troops but not the president"

"Bombing a sovereign nation for ill-defined reasons with vague objectives undermines the American stature in the world. The international respect and trust for America has diminished every time we casually let the bombs fly."

Hint: Both of the above are quotes from the same stinky hippy!

Denzien,

Why did your reference, Snopes.com, also find it true that a mural was discovered in Iraq depicting an airliner crashing into a building resembling the World Trade Center? Did this mural exist in Iraq before 9/11? Does it prove the Iraqis were involved in 9/11 and knew about it, or did they just glorify it?

http://snopes.com/rumors/mural.php

Hey Ezekiel! You must be stumped! Here's the answers:

Quote #1, "Victory means exit strategery"- George Bush!

Quote #2, "You can support the troops..."- Tom "Criminalization of politics" Delay!

Quote #3, "Bombing a sovereign nation for ill-defined reasons with vague objectives undermines the American stature in the world.."- Tom Delay!

OK, on to the bonus round- which one of the current bunch of crooks on Capitol Hill said the following:

"[the President]..is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."

Hint: one of the relative few not under investigation or indictment

I have one question - WHERE IN THE WORLD IN ANY OF MY POSTS DID I QUESTION ANYONE'S PATRIOTISM? I will never question anyone's patriotism, because how in the world do I know how much others love or hate this country? I only know how I feel.

DemonDeacon - where did I accuse anyone of being unpatriotic? The only point I tried to make is that YOU CANNOT GIVE THE DEMOCRATS WHO VOTED FOR THIS WAR A PASS. If you are against us being in Iraq, you need to blame them too. They had a chance to vote against it, but they didn't.

And yes, I checked out the Snopes.com page on those quotes a long time ago, however, you can say what you want about those quotes I posted, the bottom line is that all of those politicians I listed who were eligible to vote VOTED FOR THE IRAQ WAR RESOLUTION. You can take quotes and put them in any context you want, good or bad, but you cannot change the facts of how these people voted. Instead of spending time trashing the President and him alone, why not ask the same tough questions of all of the Democrats who had a chance to put their money where their mouth is now. (By the way, if any of you are interested, I have copy of an article that outlines the fact that Harry Reid has admitted that he did not read the intelligence briefing on Iraq before voting for the war. He says that he let his aides read over it and advise him. If it was that important, don't you think he should have read it himself?)

Listen people - I am a conservative, but I am far from a Bush apologist. As any president has, he has made his fair share of mistakes. I won't list the many things I believe he has done wrong. But let's just say the next time he lands on an aircraft carrier under a "Mission Accomplished" banner, I'll be the first one in line at the Bush Bashing rally. However, we are a DEMOCRACY, which allows our elected leaders to cast votes for and against what happens in this country. If you hold the President responsible, fine, but don't give others a pass just because of their political party or affiliation.

Oak Ridge Runner,

Dang. I didn't know about that. I guess invading and killing all those civillians was worth it now!

"Does it prove the Iraqis were involved in 9/11 and knew about it, or did they just glorify it?"

I'm gonna have to take the CIA's word for it that they were not involved in 9/11, and only glorifying it.

Further, to suggest that a mural is indicative of Iraqi involvement in 9/11 is ludicrous. Turn off the talk radio and go outside.

Hey Denzien - what about the fact that Saddam Hussein paid either $10,000 or $25,000 to the families of Palestinian homicide bombers? Here is the link from CBS News so you won't accuse me of pulling this up on some Neo Con website.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/14/world/main543981.shtml

I guess this is OK with you since they were killing Israelis, not Iraqi civilians. By the way, Saddam did his fair share of killing Iraqi civilians, didn't he?

Put on your Fahrenheit 9/11 hat and go outside. Don't forget your "No War for Halliburton" umbrella, it might be raining.

Ezekiel, I figured you would not respond to anything I mentioned. Congrats.

Guess who else pays/has paid the families of Palestinian bombers?

If you said, "The Saudis", you're right!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,51252,00.html

I expect the invasion to begin in 5 minutes.

Oh, and one more thing about that "OMG!!1! TEH DEMONCRAPS VOTED FOR THE WAR TOO!!!1)" shtick you've got going, Ezekiel:

Go back and reread the resolution here:
http://www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hjres114.pdf

Pay attention in particular to the beginning "Whereas" paragraphs. Do any of those contain info that we now know is fabricated, false, distorted, cherry-picked, or used inappropriately?

Secondly, make no mistake: Democrats voted for it. They are dumbasses. I will contest the info that lead them to vote for it, but they are still dumbasses in the end for not revising the bill so as to not give Bush carte blanc. Live and learn, I suppose :D

Thank you for posting all of those lovely quotes by Democrats- sadly, my friend, those are very irrelevant. The Democratic senators and representatives, as well as the American people, were obviously delivered the supposed "truth" about Iraq's WMDs and the likes, and WE- not some, but WE, the American people- took it in good faith. May I bring up the Nigeria incident as one? Even when Ambassador Joe Wilson went to that nation and disproved the link, did Bush or his cronies stop the media crusade against Iraq?

It turns out that most of the "truths" were falsehoods or outdated truths- aka, no longer valid. When Clinton spoke about WMDs, they had been known to exist, and we probably had solid information to stand on.

In conclusion, posting quotes by Democrats to justify the war is no longer valid. The fact is that they said these things when they were certain the president would not spread false information- whether he intentionally or unintentionally spread these messages. If you lie to someone, they will obviously repeat that lie, not certain of it's veritability. Santa Claus anyone?

Ben Holme

Ben - any way you can expand on why you think the comments by Democrat politicians are irrelevant and are no longer valid? I'm trying to understand how you can give these politicians a pass just because of their party affiliation.

Our intelligence agencies don't magically change political affiliation when we get a new president. The same people who provided Clinton with his intelligence were likely the same people who gave Bush his intelligence. It is up to Congress (both Republicans and Democrats) to judge if the president is making a mistake or not. If they didn't want war, why in the world did they vote for it? Above, Denzien says it is simply that they are just "dumbasses" and that we should simply "live and learn." It is a much bigger issue than that. As an Army veteran, I can't describe enough how much it kills morale to see the very people who voted to put you in harms way now run and hide when the going gets tough. War is not clean, it is not perfect, and it certainly never goes as planned. These politicians knew that going in, yet they still cast the same vote.

All I'm trying to say is that you can't have it both ways. You can't lay the blame at the president's feet and then not hold the rest of Congress responsible as well. The problem is that so many of you hate this President so much that you lose sight of the bigger picture. This bigger picture involves the law makers and the intelligence agencies of our country as well as the intelligence agencies in other countries who confirmed the information that we had. These other countries didn't suddenly become "pro-Bush" the minute that he was declared the winner in Florida, so don't even try to say that they doctored their intelligence to give us a reason to go to war. What’s happening now is that the anti-war Cindy Sheehan crowd has gained some attention, and these politicians are trying to seize the moment to gain some votes from the far left fringe of the Democratic Party. They hope that you forget that they are just as responsible for us being their as anyone else. IN MY OPINION, this is irresponsible.

Well I'll agree with Ez that BOTH the congress and the admis' hold fault - all the drums-of-war folks do. Certainly the emotion of 9-11 played in the air.

You are correct, Intelligence should not be (and prob' isn't) beholding to either party ...

I think you are incorrect about the international intelligence - from what I've read there was only one report out of Italy that was used by both the US and Britan. That same report surfaced at least twice - the second time to "prove" the first report, and no one really knows (or claims responsiblity) from whom that Italian Intel' doc came. Could have come off Dan Rather's typewriter for all we know.

I agree that our elected officials in DC all made a BAD decision. Whether it was from voting for the war because it was considered unpatriotic to oppose it, whether they failed to question the intel reports or even read them, or whether they wanted Iraqi oil, their vote has caused a disaster.

We jumped in without a plan. If we had waited, maybe the "threat" would have been found to not exist.

So, whether politicians are questioning their votes because it is politically correct or because they really have seen their mistake, I am glad they are speaking up. One of my biggest complaints with Bush is that he has NEVER admitted a mistake, with the exception of Katrina; and on that one I blame Mother Nature not Bush.

At least Bush is now at least talking about an exit plan, Why has it taken years to realize this is needed????

Carol - I truly believe the "exit strategy" hasn't been discussed prior to now because we didn't know how quick the Iraqi Army would be trained. I also believe that had we started discussing an exit strategy before now that we would have been playing into the hand of the "insurgents." According to a figure I heard on CNN this morning, there are now over 200,000 trained Iraqi troops. I don't know how accurate this is but it is much better than the projections we heard a year ago.

The Iraqis have proven to be a resilient group of people. Their election turnout is higher percentage-wise than in our own country, and they have been threatened with death if they go to the polls.

I served in Bosnia during the 90s, and if you remember, Bill Clinton promised during the Dayton Peace Accords that we would only commit to one year of military presence. It was clear after weeks that one year was not going to be nearly enough. The Croatian and Bosnian people told us while we were there that they knew as soon as we left that the killing would start again. The Serbs were warming up for our withdrawal after one year, and when it didn't come their plans to resume the killing were ruined. They knew that our goverment had only promised a year, and they thought that we were pulling up stakes and leaving after that point. Don't think the terrorists who have infested Iraq aren't paying attention as well. If we set a date to withdrawal all of our troops, the bloodshed will be horrendous.

We still have troops in the Balkan Theater, both in Hungary, Bosnia and Kosovo. And we'll have troops in Iraq for a long time as well. Not combat levels, but we will have troops in country for some time.

I keep thinking about how 25+ million Iraqis are now liberated - not fearing from their own government and have an opportuntiy to better their lives. For all those that oppose the US involvement in Iraq I suggest you make a trip to just one of the German concentration camps in Europe. Go see the pictures, the mass graves, the videos of women, children and men being herded like cattle on trains to get gassed. Do this and then post your views. I think you would change your mind. If not, then the word civilized means someting different to you than it does to me.

"I keep thinking about ... not fearing from their own government and have an opportuntiy to better their lives."

Great, bgh. Let's liberate them all - starting in Darfur (pretty nasty there I hear), and move on to Tiebet (China won't mind a little interference). Let's add Cuba (about time), maybe Saudi Arabia (now we're getting close). We need China in the mix ...

Sorry - as a reason to go to war I'll buy stopping Islamic Wacko's - but not bleeding heart concerns like "an opportuntiy to better their lives."

Good for the Iraqis that JD's not in charge of anything but blowing his own horn on this blog

"Bleeding heart" For crying out loud you're a "bleeding heart." JDR. Go back and read your own very long rant and rave (sorry yvonne, I just could not resist this phrase again) post. The libs are the ones shooting, the conservs are taking the hits and firing back and it makes you squirm doesn't it?

shoot again, bgh - I really do not know what you are talking about.

Hey Zeke,

Hang in there. Nil illegitimus carborundum. And Deacon the car wash is hiring . You and JDR should check it out.

jdr,I really don't know what I'm talking about either but that is ok here, isn't it?