News-Record.com

Why do people lik ethis keep saying the war in Iraq is not winnable? Our military can win the war, if the American people display the same courage that our military does.

Wow, quoting the French as great military powers and knowledgeable about conducting wars. Get real, the only thing the French military is good at is surrendering and folding like an accordian. This evidently the road the writer of this letter would have us to take.
"The war is not winnable." And you know how?
I wonder if the writer is a military expert , has served in the military, has seen combat,or even knows the first things about the military or does the writer just quote the standard BS put out by the appeasement groups and the far left who would have us cut and run.
I would ask what the writer knows about Viet Nam? How does the writer know about what actually happened in that war where a bunch of appeasement, cowards through the media caused this war to be given up. Want to know the real deal, ask someone who spent over half their life in service of their country not some whineing weenie, cut and run who only knows what they read and hear from the far left news.

"I wonder if (Bush- Cheney- Rumsfeld)( are) military expert(s) , (have) served in the military, (have) seen combat...
I would ask what (Bush- Cheney- Rumsfeld) knows about Viet Nam? How does (Bush- Cheney- Rumsfeld) know about what actually happened in that war where a bunch of appeasement, cowards through the media caused this war to be given up. Want to know the real deal, ask someone who spent over half their life in service of their country not some whineing weenie, cut and run (Bush- Cheney- Rumsfeld) who only knows what they read and hear from the far left news."

Thanks for being the straight man in this bit Mr Produce.

I lived Vietnam. I spent 6 years as a Marine. We were getting the crap beat out of us when we withdrew with no end in sight. I guess because the death toll of US military has not yet reached 58,000 we have a long way to go before we need to be thinking about how to get out of this mess. Just like Vietnam, we have NO exit plan. The only plan I see is to stay in place, let our military be sitting ducks and HOPE someone finds a way out. YES, I completely support our troops. I am a Marine and proud of the service I gave to my country so don't call me a coward or an appeasement weenie. I lived Vietnam and Iraq is running on a parallel track. When politicians and the military/industrial corporations run wars and not the professionals, the results are inevitable.

Welcome home Greenhornet from mrp. DaNang 66-67; 71
I was just wondering when you were there my friend. It seems if my memory serves me correct that when we were bombing the crap out of the north, Laos, Cambodia and other santuaries that the NVA and VC had to hide in that we could have won this mess and come on home. It was only after the firing of Gen. Westmorland and Abrams and the ceaseationn of the bombing that things began to turn bad. I know that Tet would not have happened if the bombing had not stopped. I know that the bombing would have not stopped if it had not been for a small group of loudmouth know-nothings getting the attention of the media and then Johnson caving to the civilians instead of listening to the generals on the ground.
Iraq will only become that way if the same things occurs which I don't see happening. Rummy did not listen to the generals on the ground and that came close to becoming a disaster. Perhaps he is learning to shut up and listen for awhile. As long as the generals on the ground can have the say on how to conduct this war, we will win. When those in the hallowed halls of congress cave to the small group of loudmouths for the sake of a vote and attempt to override these generals will we have no chance of victory.

As to the commment from Nfidel. As Andrew Carnigie once said, " I don't know the first thing about making steel, but I surround myself with those who do." Enough said on your comment. IMO the President is finally listening to the generals on the ground. Any of you who have read some earlier post concerning the handling of this war will certainly know that I have not agreed with the way this thing got off and running. With the generals now running the show instead of Rummy, things have vastly imporoved.

MrP
It seems your feathers are getting ruffled when you respond to this topic. I am NOT saying that as criticism but it seems you answers have taken on more of an edge to them, so just an observation, nothing wrong with it.

By the way thanks alot for your emails have enjoyed them and hope you had a good thanksgiving.

I will throw this out for those interested. I am coming home to greensboro in two weeks for christmas,for three weeks(got to love those long german vacations). I would be interested in putting faces to some of the people here. But I would say some may not belong in the same room.

If interested we need to arrange this now as my time is tight over this time as I am sure yours is as well and once home I will not be reachable easily as for understandable reasons I will not put the number where I can be reached here.

But for me this forum is a way to exchange ideas and for the most part even when things get heated up I find the exchange interesting. And i would find it nice to have a face with some of you if things can be worked out.

Thank YOU Green Hornet! You're right on target.

Picard ? That sounds French. Can you say capituler, Monsieur Jean.

I'd still like for an expert to answer my question. Why is this war unwinnable as some keep saying? Who is it that can lose it for us? It's not our military. As Mr. Produce is pointing-out to anyone who wants to listen, we could have won in Vietnam as well, if the politicans, meida and fainthearts over here had let them.

With respect for Green Hornet's service to our country, I beg to differ with his conclusions.

I believe America learned much from Vietnam. I believe our leaders, political and military, are too wise to repeat the same mistakes from that era.

We have the most professional, volunteer Army in the world, much different than the drafted Army of Vietnam.

The terrain does not allow for hiding in jungles or ambushes on night patrol.

We do have the finest urban combat training facilities in the world. So what ambushes we have endured have not decimated entire units.

The policy of keeping troops on the ground, and not rotating units around, allows for more effective relationships to be built between our forces/commanders and local leaders/citizens.

I think we will see that the political situation is much different. The mass of Shiites and Kurds and most Sunnis want to have political control of their country, whereas the mass of Vietnamese would not stand and fight the communist from the north.

The only similarities I see are from the left and the media that seeks to magnify the imperfection of war and be blissfully ignorant of the tactical and strategic successes.

I thank the Green Hornet for his service to our nation.

I pray that the political situation in Iraq continues to move forward so we can bring our troops home when Iraq has a stable government and a functional state security force.

Keep the faith and a stable Iraq with a democratically elected government will emerge and transform the geopolitics of the region.

Can any American say they are desirous of our leaders to capitulate to a loose band of terrorists and say the sacrifice was too great?

Oak Ridge Runner
I will take a shot at your question and will do so acknowledging beforehand I am no expert but at least someone who is informed.

If this was an one on one between militaries then their is no one who can beat us on the battle field but war has more dynamics to it than just what happens on the battle field.

And the dynamics I see happening in Iraq makes a "victory" difficult and that of course depends on what you define as victory. And these dynamics are not going to be effected by what goes on here. Even if most americans still supported the war or the anti-war people kept their mouths shut I dont see things being all that different as they are today.

The dynamics are this. You have three competing groups who dont like each other or trust each other doing their best to protect their own ínterests. I keep hearing about how it is quiet in the north. Naturally the kurds had formed the semi-automic state under Sadamm and they are putting in the final pieces for what they hope will be their own country so naturally they will be quiet. And if one watches what is happeing on the ground between these groups to say they will come together and form some stable democracy is a pipe dream at this moment. And I am sure someone will correct me here but I do believe Yugoslavia even had elections after Tito and we saw what happened there so lets not overblow these elections just yet. I mean in the news today Alawi(however you spell that) a leader this country backs completely was completely embarrassed by his own people when he enter church. Read what you want into that I know what I take from it.

You also have an insurgency made up mostly Iraqis who will not stop as long we are there. The only positive here is that some of these groups appear ready to talk on some level so who knows where this will go. And we add fuel to their fire with our bold moves like defining torture so we can do it and feel good about it.

And even if all americans supported this just how many years can we pay for this and not damage our economy; assuming of course it is not already damaged.

If we do not learn from history, then we are DESTINED AND DOOMED to repeat it. And here we goooo folks!

I love being powerful, don't you. Especially at Christmas time. Gives me chills every time I see us flex our muscles against just about anybody. Heck, we've bombed over 40 countries in 40 years and I think everybody knows we're serious about solving our problems with a big stick. Military strategy is also a wonderful topic. I still say good landmines make good neighbors. But heck, let's take our hats off to those in Washington that have given us more nukes that ANYBODY! Yahoo

Hayes, at times you deal with sharpness with sharpness.It is an unexpected thing from me so it catches some by surprise and throws them off a bit. I get so tired of people writing about something they know nothing about and claiming to be some kind of guru on the facts.
Greenhornet has made statements based on the time he was there or I would assume that to be the fact. There were times expecially after 68 when everyday life was a living hell in Nam with no light at the end of the tunnel so to speak. It seems that our butts were being kicked left and right as the Green stated. I know I was there pre-68 and post 68.
As to Nifidel, anotherwould be jokester, but I would encourage the Nifidel not to give up their day job. Perhaps reading the story of Andrew Carnigie and others who knew little about how their commidity or "product of wealth" was made , but sure knew where to find the answers and those who did. FDR had very few around him in acutal office that knew of war but he sure as heck had some generals and admirals that were well versed.
Abe Lincoln had few advisors around him who knew war but he had the generals who did. So it goes with many who have managed to win the war while loosing a few battles.

I would love to put faces to the names Hayes. Perhaps we could , through e-mails of course, get a few of us together for this event. I am certain that there are a few who would not wish to attend and some of which I am sure if did attend with the same vehemence they spew here would find "hand's being laid upon them" and it "wouldn't be for their healing either."

Hayes, good idea, do you have a date in mind? A time, date, & place could be posted for everyone to meet. Where's Yvonne?

I'd consider a meeting. I think it would actually help us to recognize the human behind the post. Heck, I might even be able to coerce Steve into showing up.

Okay, here's a question. And only a question. From everything I've read, the Sunni's, Kurds, and Shiites hate each other's guts. Even more so than republicans and liberals. :)

So why are we trying to create one nation out of these different factions? Why not create three?

Truth, I disagree with the comment, "....I've read, the Sunni's, Kurds, and Shiites hate each other's guts. Even more so than republicans and liberals. :)" I do not hate anyone's guts. I may disagree with a view/stand, that does not mean that I hate that person.

Also, why not call the person a democrat instead of a liberal. Or call one the conservative and the other liberal. Be more clear and concise when making those kinds of statements. They tend to show a great indifference for those who are different.

Shalom

I am a retired VA psychiatric social worker who for 30 years provided some type of therapy to combat vets. I was never physically anywhere but psychologically I was in WWII thru the Persian Gulf. You vets know, war is ugly. I wrote an article which was published in the News and Record and I'll post it later. My point here is that we never really consider how we go about solving international problems. We put our military through hell in boot camp, then war, then re-entry. Is the world really a better place today because of your blood and tears? There has to be a better way. The way we are escalating warfare on every front will be self re-newing. I'm Irish and I feel pained about the continued strife between the English and the Irish. I don't think of Iraq as a war zone any more. I in someways, think it's over. What isn't over is the terriorism that is going to continue for a long time (just like Israel and Palestine and Ireland and England).

In conclusion, I'm for a speedy withdrawal from Iraq because no matter what we establish before we go--there is going to be a (bad word) civil war type squirmish of sorts because all the involved peoples will have to find and establish their own geographic and historic homeostasis.
That won't mean that we failed (I don't think we should have gone it alone in the first place) but their are just somethings that they are going to have to figure out for themselves and we have to allow it to happen. (Maybe that's the therapist in me).

I'm going to be giving a professional presentation, in the near future, on the psychological effects of prolonged war exposure on the psyche's of combatants. I would be interested in talking separately to some of you combat vets. I'm pretty well finished but would appreciate any input.

Thanks for staying with me.

Did you hear about the French engineer who was kidnapped yesterday. While he was kicking,hollering, and fighting,what did his nieghbors do. They waved him goodbye.