News-Record.com

It is fascinating how much debate is going on, or at least the expression of opinions.

Here's my opinion:

It is kinda a fight-'em there or fight/'em here deal, but going into Iraq was the stupidest thing America has done in a long while.

Now that we're there - we must commit - and we need to pull this thing off somehow, although I'm still not really sure what that looks like, short of Camelot - which was is and will always be an imagined place.

The LTE writer is correct, one cannot fight a politically correct war (an oxymoron) ... however I sense the Pres' is actually moving in that direction (after a 2 plus year delay, he FINALLY issued more that a "trust me" policy.

Quick Joke: How does a slimey business man say "Screw You"? He says, "Trust Me."

Here's G Dubs Plan: http://www.gop.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=5956

While it took several months to get organized [for a threat we had known about for years], in 2002 we went into Afganistan to " ... find, hunt down, and kill their terrorist heads." Then came the aforementioned stupid Slam Dunk Era, I mean Slam Dunk Error.

I do find the LTE writer's comment about brainwashing to be both shallow and wrong (the main reason for me stopping at this letter). Osama is lifing in the caves with his people while our "leaders" are cruising Las Vegas on the Public Dole.

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/shows/2005/11/30/PM200511306.html

... the point being, do not belittle the integrity of the wacko Islamic leadership - these are genuine zealots, not the draft-dodging sit and watch cowards America has in DC. NOTE I'm talking DC Politicians, not Military Privates to Generals.

Finally and Frankly, I'm a lot less concerned about bombings there than I am about bombing here. After all, we've been watching from afar these suiciders for as long as I can remember.

btw, what happened to all those nuc's left over from the collapse of the USSR?

Aw, James, you know they are sitting in Syria somewhere waiting for Iraq for when they really need them. Up to now, they have been content with letting the US come in, kill their innocent citizens (not just the terrorist heads) and desecrate their nation. But one day they'll get pissed and blow our butts outta there with those WMD. Not!

Yvonne:
Weren't innocent Iraqi citizens being killed by the thousands BEFORE the US came in?

(Note: This is merely an observation in response to an often-made statement and NOT reflective of my feelings on the war)

JDR,

I am shocked to read that you feel that the Islamic Fascist leadership has integrity. Integrity is defined as moral soundness, so it would appear that you admire their moral clarity as they commit murder and mayhem on American citizens. In the past, I thought you were a liberal who was expressing an honest disagreement with Bush's policies. Now, I'm not so sure exactly what you are.

Have any of you Bushbashers ever considered honestly disagreeing with someone's politics without resorting to trashing and trampling the person's character? Who among you is a perfect person that leads the perfect life? There's only been a few of them in the history of the world, and even they are denied by many non-believers. Consider debating the issues, and leave out the personal attacks upon others. Let's leave the trashing of Bush to professionals like Molly Ivans.

in·teg·ri·ty

Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code.
The state of being unimpaired; soundness.
The quality or condition of being whole or undivided; completeness.

You gotta give'em that, even though one man's moral code may not be another's.

My point was they live by their word, and the same cannot be said about most in DC.

A favorite quote is from General Lee - you may have heard it: His priorities were "Honor, Family, Country". Note what has first priority.

... after all, some consider it immoral to dance, smoke, drink, or curse. Others swear openly when they leave their damm cigarettes at the bar.

JDR, I always enjoy reading your posts. Regardless of what others may say or feel, I agree with the points made more often than not! (That's my selling point today!)

Being pacifist, war is NEVER an option. My heartfelt desire is that the US forces would immediately be removed from Iraq. The exit policy to me is a C-130 Transport! Fly them in, load up the troops, supplies, Fly them out! What is so difficult about that? (Here is the part for folks to attack.)

I disagree with the gettem there or gettem here mentality. If the US would stop being imperialistic, fanatics such as those in the Middle East would not be bent to destroy Americans and the system we live with. As for the death of US soldiers, were those soldiers not in Iraq, there would be no "insurgent" attack against them and probably fewer against the Iraqi people.

I keep hearing the call that the Iraqi people are building their own "security" forces. Where? Let those supposed troops protect Bagdad. Let those troops guard the area where Saddam's trial is being held! Because of the stupidity of invading Iraq, no matter when the US finally leaves, there will be a Civil War. The invasion of Iraq broke up the inhuman stability that was there, sadly a stability that was a dictatorial/totalitarian one. Yet, stability. If the Iraqi people were so desiring of freedom and deomcracy, then THEY should be the ones fighting and dying to have it. It should not be costing the lives of foreigners to give another the freedom they desire!

Shalom

Bush said we would be finished when we had gotten rid of all the insurgents (who are the insurgents???) Are they Iraqis or Muslims or Middle Eastern people? How do you recognize them? Who decides that you are an insurgent? How do you know when they are all gone? Does anyone really think we can or should kill all the bad guys?

Bunny, as I understand it, Sadaam is being tried for the execution of over 100 Iraqis who attempted to kill him. Many were found in prison when we arrived, many are now held in prison under the new leadership. I don't think we know that he killed thousands of Iraqis citizens. If news is correct, our military action has killed thousands of citizens.

I am not defendiing Sadaam in any way. But it seems to me that many Americans approve of execution. I saw a poll yesterday that showed that 70% approve of the death penalty.

There are no good reason to kill another human.

I don't think it is possible for us to withdraw our troops anytime soon. America started the war, created the mess it has become, and has to save face, I guess.

Carol:

He killed by the thousands if not tens of thousands - there is no doubt.

He paid $25,000 to the parents of suicide bommer kids in Israel - there is no doubt.

He gased the Iranians - there is no doubt (but he used chemicals supplied by the US to make 'em as well as US sattelite images to find the best place to let 'em go).

He starved his people in the Gas for Oil programs - there is no doubt.

... and all those stories about his sons torturing the soccer Team for loosing a match, and pulling pretty girls off the street for a random rape - all true too.

There are occassionally very very good reasons for killing other people, but I agree, Saddam didn't have any good reasons.

No doubt he was a menace to society, and had an ego the size of Cheney's. He probably has other large body parts.

But mostly he was sitting on 10% of the world oil at the wrong time.

James, I know I'm not as well informed as you and, like Carol, I am not defending Saadam. However, I thought I had read the numbers reportedly killed by Saadam and the actual number of skeletons we have been able to produce from mass graves are nowhere near close. I seem to remember there being a great discrepancy.

Any number is too many and the citizens of Iraq are better off without him. But was it really necessary to exchange the lives of our soldiers for the lives of citizens who wouldn't, and still won't, fight for themselves?

And is it any better for us to have killed innocent citizens of Iraq than Saadam? Dead is dead, no matter who does the killing. IMHO, we have lost more than the Iraqi people have gainned.

And I'm not sure I believe we will be any better off for staying the course. I think people are only fooling themselves to think we can stave off a civil war in Iraq by staying another year, ten years or a hundred years. I hope I'm proven wrong.

I agree that dead is dead no matter who does the killing, but I'm more concerned about who does the dying.

Darryl: "If the US would stop being imperialistic, fanatics such as those in the Middle East would not be bent to destroy Americans and the system we live with."

Welcome to the blame America first club Darryl. I suppose if we just pack up our toys and go home, then Islamic fanatics will leave everyone alone. Darryl, these people think Allah has commanded them to spread Islam throughout the world. This is not recent and in fact started long before the US existed. They invaded N. Africa, Turkey (which used to be a kingdom of Christendom, Constantinople), tried to move furhter west, hell they even invaded and took over Spain in the 700's and finally got turned back when trying to move into France (the only example of the French winning a miliary battle that I'm aware of).

Since they are incapable of fighting a traditional war terrorism is their method.

You guys who think Islamic fanatics only goal is to get us out of Iraq, or the Middle East for that matter, is sadly mistaken. This problem will be here for a long, long time. Appeasement will not work, the French appeased them for decades and look what it got them last month, thousands of burning cars & buildings.

Dan:

How many French does it take to defend Paris?

Carol:

Point taken. No, we don't know how many Iraqi people S.H. has killed. Wonder where all those thousands of bodies found mass graves came from?

You wrote: "There is no good reason to kill another human."
Don't preach that to me, tell it to those people currently sitting on death row!

I give up JDR, they sure didn't do a good job with Hitlers army, nor last month.

Bunny, please tell me where the figures and information about the thousands of bodies in mass graves came from.

Killing people who kill others will not bring back the victim. A sentence to life in prison is punishment. It is also less costly. The death sentence allows many appeals, most paid for by the state. Lawyer fees are much higher than room and board. Could you drop the pellet or do the injection to kill a stranger?

Carole, the age old question. How would you feel if it were one of your loved ones who were murdered? Like the woman in Rockingham county who's husband and daughter were murdered, the killer will be executed tomorrow. What if it were your husband and daughter? Not attacking your beliefs, just curious.

I agree with you the death sentence allows too many appeals and costs too much. If they are found guilty by admission, as this guy was, or incontrovertible evidence the death sentence should be carried out swiftly.

Carol:

Regarding the mass graves:
Easy enough to find that information via Google, but I'll get you started.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/04/15/iraq/main688523.shtml
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news/press/14525.shtml
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/04/30/iraq.main/
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/13/iraq.graves/

The following sites have numbers, but these numbers have been questioned as being inflated.
http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/legacyofterror.html
http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/pdf/iraq_mass_graves.pdf

Try Google... there are plenty of sites about this topic.

As to your comment to me regarding the death penalty, do you know me personally? Since you don't, you have no clue as to my stance on the issue. I only made a comment in reply to your statement. You assume a great deal about me (it's happened before, hasn't it?), and you know what they say about "assume."

What do we do, bring home all US armed forces and protect our borders only? How would Wal*Mart, Sam's, Target, and CostCo put product on their shelves?

Dan: it's an old joke I thought you'd enjoy:

How many French does it take to defend Paris?

No one knows, it's never been tried.

JDR, I figured it was a joke, just didn't know the punchline, but I agree.

You guys take care, I'm flyin to Atlanta tomorrow for work, so no bloggin........

JDR,

Do you have a job ? Do you still live with your parents and use their PC to parrot the Daily Kos ?
Your certainly are nocturnal and omnipresent on this blog. Son, you need to get a life. The car was has openings now. Git-R-Done

Bunny, when I read your comments it appeared that you wanted those on death row executed. Maybe you meant I should tell them not to take another life. Thanks for sending the sites. I just like to verify things...at times people tend to exaggerate on the blogs.

Dan, thank God I have never had to face that situation and pray that you nor I never will. No matter how I might feel, an eye for an eye is still wrong, execution would not bring back a loved one.

Also Bunny, why do you sound so angry? Am I just assuming this or are you really angry?

Carol,

I'm not angry at all. I just don't like things being assumed about me that aren't necessarily true.... as you have done in the past. Perhaps you sometimes "read" things as you want to see them. Again, your assumption is wrong. Have a nice day!

Ms.Worm, what business is it of yours what JDR does or how much time he or I , or anyone else for that matter, spends on the blogs?
It would appear that JDR is old enough, mature enough and intelligent enough to do the research required to offer opinions on the SUBJECT at hand. You evidently don't.
How do you know that JDR is not perhaps someone who's contact with others may be limited by health issues or other situations which you have no clue about? Did you think that he might be retired and wealthy enough to do what he wants to do?(hahha JDR, just had to throw that in don't we wish on the $$$$ side)

And just what the name of sam hill did you offer in way of contribution to the post at hand? You must be so very limited in you ability to think and come up with something original or rational to offer on these post, and I have seen your other assine post as well,that all you can do is sit around and critize what JDR has to offer. You Ms. Worm need to get a life, and get a clue. I hope that I have sufficiently peed in your Cornflakes this morning so that you will go off and sulk the rest of the day after you have made some feeble attempt to reply.

Now excuse me the rest of you for my once in a bluemoon rant at someone directly but this is what elitist such as MsWorm need occassionaly. They have such lofty thoughts that they can't get them out of their heads, or perhaps it is their heads which need extracting from elsewhere.

Now with that done. Some good thoughts going back and forth here today and being done in at least some form of decency, hahahha.
OH JDR, the nukes you asked about that were left over in the USSR. Well it seems that about 40 plus percent of them are actually unaccounted for. Kinda scary ain't it when we already have Islamist nutzoids saying that to really get the US's attention they need to let loose a nuke devise in this country.

Thanks for your support MRP.

Them thar nukes have me a little nervous too ... ya know the old saying: One good nuke can sour an otherwise fine day.

Adding to my paranoia is knowing there is plenty of money laying around to pick 'em up from hungry or greedy or just plain bastard Soviet once-was, and also knowing that we are dealing with a very patient and focused enemy.

40% of enough to wipe out the world multiple times is a one keck of a lot of fission.

On the nukes, JDR. I beleive I sent you an article sometime back about that situation and it gave the nutzoid Islamist name who made the statement and then gave the stats on the number of nukes missing and unaccounted for in the USSR and yes also who has the money to buy these things. The point that the nutzoid was making was that only a small ,suitcase type nuke would certainly make the impact on the US that they desire and cause them to turn tail and run. Well so far we have seen that it does not even take anything so drastic for some to want to turn tail and run. These "appeasement groups" and "get out now" groups had better start paying attention to something beside the far left blogs, newpapers and media outlets and realize that the Islamist nutzoids don't just want us out of Iraq and the ME, they want us out of the world, subdued and made over into an Islamic state controlled by an Islamist world. These poor misguided fools don't realize that these nutzoids don't give a rats butt about apeasement, they want total control. They aint the kind of folks you sit down to cocktails with and discuss how things are going to be divided up and what will be allowed or disallowed.
For these nutzoids, it's their way or your head is rolling in the highway. Unfortunately we have some who are still asleep or who would rather make a political stew than to wake up and see reality.

Mr. Veggie,

How clever ..you peed in my Cornflakes.. You are a real wit.. Nitwit. Your friend JDR needs to get a life.. You seem to suggest he is confined to a wheel chair . Maybe so but I suspect it is more like a toliet cuz as much crap as he slings, most of it straight from the DNC and moveon.org wannabes, he has a terminal and incoherent case of diarrhea of the mouth.

Personal attacks aside ( you started it ) , I think your comments on this blog are some of the best and add to the discussion. I generally find myself in agreement with what you say. You need your own blog. Mr Wormer agrees with me