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I see your point...and wouldnt it be easier to get an apartment off campus and live together? or would that defeat the purpose of stirring up controversy and taking pot-shots at the administration.

I lived in a coed dorm at UNC-CH, 1st 2 floors male, second 2 female. I remember someone pulled a fire alarm at 2 am and we had to evacuate the building. Many of the women felt uncomfortable standing in front of us guys in their bathrobes, no make up, etc.

The LTE writer did honestly express her real concern, gay rights.

6string, your suggestion is perfect, rent an apartment. I don't see why state funded schools have to accomodate everyone's specific desires in the dorm rooms. What if I want to have a rooster in my dorm to remind me of mammy & pappy back on the farm?

There is the unspoken assumption, Dan, that every student has transportation, making it feasible to live off campus. This is clearly not the case.

Guilford College isn't a state-funded school.

I went to Guilford College and spent my last 2 years in the coed dorm. First 2 floors were male, third floor was females. No problem! However, this is FAR different from males and females sharing a room or even a suite.

Yvonne: As to your comment about students living off campus possibly not having transportation, might I point out there are apartments right across the street from Guilford College. There are also apartments down Friendly Avenue which are on the bus line.

bunny,

you are right on the money. also, if they are going to guilford college, money is not likely an issue. and if they can't afford an apartment nearby, here's my advice. SUCK IT UP! College isn't about getting everything you want. It's about getting an education. And whether you are straight, gay, black, white, etc. college is the perfect time to learn that the world doesn't revolve around you and sometimes you have to just DEAL!

Wow, I love how people take pot shots at this younger generation for trying to enact things to make life more comfortable!

I am angered that the LTE writers had their topic minimalized to "gay rights." That is abhorant!

While I would not want to have a dorm room with a female friend, that does not mean that others would not. I also know some males that had asked to room with me in college and then decided against it because of activities in which I was in volved.

We need, as a society, to look beyond gender, race, etc., and look at people as people first and foremost! Then we may be able to progress.

Dan, one question, did you complete four years at UNC-Chapel Hill and graduate?

Shalom

A footnote to my posting regarding Guilford College. One may be surprised that the cost of attending Guilford in consumerate with the cost of attending UNC-Chapel Hill!

Furthermore, I would take the quality of a student from Guilford over that of one from UNC-Chapel Hill.

The students that I know personally from Guilford are upstanding young people who CARE about making society better for EVERYONE, not about how much "I" can make off of everyone else! This is something that is taught at Guilford. I NEVER sensed that while I worked at UNC-Chapel Hill!

And the option of "living in an off campus apartment" ruins the college experience, to me. Living in the college dorm gives young people the relational experiences of a communial quality. It provides young people with the opportunity to learn to solve differences on their own while building relationships that can last a lifetime!

College is more than just the degreed education. There is a much, much more broader educational experience to be had. That is what I feel the LTE writers are suggesting. Hear them out before making outlandish remarks such as Doug Clark!

Shalom

Darryl,

You are ill-informed about the costs of Guilford College and UNC. Tuition and costs at Guilford College are $11,000. They are $4,000 at UNC. So they are not "consumerate".

I have found that students that attend UNC are usually excellent. It is difficult to gain admission, and even harder to graduate. Guilford Colege students may be fine, but I doubt that they are superior to UNC students.

You say that you worked at UNC, what did you do there? From what college did you graduate? And, what "activites" were you involved in that other students wouldn't want to room with you? Intersting.

If you share a dorm room with your boyfriend/girlfriend and the two of you break up, where do you go? I'd hate to have to room with my once significan other, now ex.
Darryl, two things. Abhorrent is spelled with two r's and an e, not an a in the last syllable. Are you sure you went to college?

Also, are you related to THANKGOD?

"Our real concern, however, is not for those couples but for homosexual students who are more comfortable rooming with their friends of the opposite sex, for transgender students who need the opportunity to room with someone of the same gender as themselves, or for any opposite-sex friends who happen to feel more comfortable with each other than with someone of the same sex."

Darryl, from this statement one has to agree that gay rights was their primary concern about this issue. We must take them at their word when they say that was their "real" concern. I didn't see anything in their letter to suggest that they were concerned about their life being more comfortable. My sense is that this is all about a political agenda. I may be wrong, but that is the impression one gets when reading their letter.

Darryl,

Frankly I am a bit disapointed in you, and I usually agree with you. How can you honestly compare the entire populations of two different universities and say that you would choose a guilford student over a UNC student? All colleges have their fair share of selfish students that you may not ever want to spend any time with, Guilford College and UNC included, but just because you worked there does not mean you can judge the population. Did you meet all 25,000 students when you worked there? I doubt it. You are usually pretty fair and open minded, why the sudden judgement? Because Dan went there? I may be bias because I went to UNC and worked there, and while I admit there were some unfortunate souls going there, most were typical college students doing the best they could. Now Duke on the other hand......ha ha just kidding, a great school with genious students as much as I hate to admit it!:) Oak Ridge Runner handled the tuition argument.....Chapel Hill is one of the best buys in the country and the state price wise, even compared to some other state schools. Guilford is obviously a smaller school, and a better fit for many students. A big school, like UNC can be overwhelming for some, but a difference in population and approach does not a school, or its students do not recieve a good education. I think the majority of UNC schools and their students are exceptional.
As for the LTE, I understand their argument, but if a male or female is so uncomfortable with his/her own gender there is always the option of having a single room. Relationships between couples and friends change so often in the college years that adding this to the mix, at least in a students first few years of college may be a disaster waiting to happen. That being said, if we want college students to act like adults, maybe we should let them choose.....and if it doesnt work they have to deal with it! Also, this issue is different at a private school. And again parents play a role if they are paying for it! SO I guess Im not sure....but ORR I am thinking (and this is my conspiracy theory) that the LTE writers are a couple who want to live together and they are using the other arguments to get their way! HA HA!!!

As a recent Guilford grad I'd like to clarify a few things. Despite the information being preached from the Ivory Tower that is the Center for Continuing Education - the cost of a Guilford education for those persons who would qualify for dorm living is in no way comparable to that of ANY school in the UNC system. There are more than a few apartments in walking distance and various housing options on campus. I understand Ms Benson's & Mr Norton's POV and sympathize with those persons who feel their housing needs are not met by the college; however, it is unrealistic to expect an institution as small as Guilford with its limited resources (relatively speaking) to be able to accomodate everyone's wishes. To implement such a program is not as simple as saying, just go ahead and do it. I'm sure there are many who would prefer to see the costs required to institute gender blind housing put towards fixing the ceiling in the cafe, or any one of a hundred other small projects on campus. There are many questions Guilford will have to answer before moving forward with this type of student housing policy.

My estimates were off on the costs of UNC-CH as compared to Guilford.

A link to UNC-CH costs for 2005-2006 - http://studentaid.unc.edu/studentaid/cost/ssa_gr_general.html

A link to Guilford costs for 2005-2006 - http://www.guilford.edu/finaid/index.cfm?ID=200000080

It is still more economical for an out-of-state student to attend Guilford than UNC-CH.

I will still uphold a Guilford Student over a UNC-CH.

And for the record, it was due to my involvment in Residence Life that prompted some friends from deciding to room with me.

k, while it may seem that I am judging, I am expressing my experience not only with students; I had basically poor experiences with administrators, professors, grad students, students, et al while at UNC-CH. In truthfulness, there were only two professors that I know personally that are worth their salary. I can cite federal law being broken that was reported to both department supervisor & department manager that went without being looked into. The perpetrator of those crimes is now a department supervisor!

While this may happen at Guilford, I doubt that the severity of what I know at UNC-CH happens at Guilford. I sense a deeper context of ethics there.

At UNC-CH I saw "kids" driving SUVs a mile down the road to protest a $200 tuition hike. Now what is wrong with that scenerio? I do not hear of such protests at Guilford.

I feel that far too many people are making much ado about nothing. Furthermore, I belive that many posting on this topic have forgotten that Guilford is a Religious Society of Friends (Quaker) institution. Check on the openness of Quakers before making broad brush stroke statements. Quakers are a very open group. Look at historical Quakers and see how they were far ahead of their contemporaries. Maybe that is what is proposed by the gender-blind rooming situation.

Also, learn of Quakers as a whole and then see how what has been stated by many does not fit the Quaker model (if there is such a thing).

Shalom

Darryl, looks like some others blew you out of the water before I could. You have a problem with UNC-CH? After all it's a liberal mecca. I was brainwashed there.

To answer your question; I went to UNC-G for two years, transferred to UNC-CH for my junior year, and then went to the University of Montpellier France for my senior year (was still considered a UNC student) and I graduated with honors.

I know you favor Guilford because of it's pacifist nature, fine with me. But comparing a small private school with a major state university is apples to oranges my friend.

Oak Ridge picked up on the same thing I did, the LTE writer talks about their "real" concern for gays, lesbians, trans genders, etc. If you can't see that then please read the letter again.

Yvonne, as for transportation, a bicycle is a cheap form of transportation. I didn't have a car all four years of college, I used my trusty bike.

Darryl,

You do not need to insult one institution to prove yours is a good one. Guilford is a great school that upholds the Quaker beliefs you hold dear, but that doesnt mean that UNC is not any less wonderful. You are guilty of using a few examples at UNC to judge the whole group, I have not insulted Guilford based on some of the people I know that attended. There is no way you are familiar with every professor or student that has attended UNC, so to say that you know of only 2 worth their salary is baseless. Not to mention you do not even work there anymore! Most students at UNC are in state, so while it might be cheaper for an out of state student to attend guilford, it is not for an instate student, the majority of UNC's undergraduate populus. Guilford is a great school, so is UNC, why must you continually insult a school to enhance your obvious bias for another?

I've learned more than enough about Quakers here, unfortunately. I guess they are like all of us in they practice not what they preach.

k, I am not concerned that it is felt that I am bashing one school in favor of another.

What troubles me is that some people only have myopic vision in reading some letters.

Yes, I base my statements on my experience. I may have only stated a couple, however, that does not mean that is the fullest extent that I have.

Dan, a side note, undoubtedly you were not "brainwashed" as stated or the views spouted here would not be done. So, that to me is a complete error.

Now, back to the task as hand. I stated that there were only two professors that I know personally. That clarifier alone leaves the door open. Yet, it seems that the clarifier of the statement was disregarded.

yellowdog, what have you learned about Quakers? That we speak truthfully? That we strive to be peaceful even though speaking truthfully may cause pain? Anything else? Please share.

Once again, I must stand by my previous posts. I did make note of the slight error on costs. Other than that, I have seen no one bring any evidence to refute my claims. Even Dan notes that he only attended one year at UNC-CH. I worked there longer than that.

k, I am asking now for specific references to what you view as my "bashing" one school over another where I have not stated experience as evidence to support my claim. If there are none, then why the personal attack?

Shalom

Darryl,

I have been around UNC for the last 7 years, I was around Guilford College for 6 as well. I viewed your comments about the professors as bashing (you say you gave yourself a loophole, I still see it as bashing) You said that Guilford has a "deeper context of ethics" (saying that UNC does not) and your comment about kids driving SUV's to protest a tuition hike was "bashing". Maybe that kids dad did buy him an SUV, and maybe that kid recognized that the tuition hike might not effect him, but many of his friends! Yes there are some spoiled kids at UNC, at any school for that matter. But Darryl you are going to see what you want to see. I am sure the kids driving SUV's will overshadow those that ride their bikes, or walk! Carolina has a diverse population and cannot be compared fairly to a small, private school that is cohesive in the ideals that it portrays. Once again I will ask you....Cant you just say that Guilford offers a belief system that you hold fast to, and a wonderful student body, without suggesting that UNC is not equally as wonderful with what it offers. It is horrible the things you encountered while at UNC, but your wording came off (maybe you did not mean it to) as suggesting that this was the norm UNC-Chapel hill.Again, There are hundreds of departments and you worked in one-no matter how much you claim to know about UNC, your views are limited (and by bias as well) If you believe that Guilford students are better and you would "uphold" one over a UNC student (I am disappointed because I thought you based your views of people on knowing them, not by a generalization about where they went to college) then that is fine, but to me that is judging someone based on one aspect of where they went to school!

I was just surprised to see you make such generalizations....you are usually really openminded. What if someone said they would uphold a conservative over a democrat or vice versa based on some people they had met? Or they would take a heterosexual over a homosexual because of the gay people they had met? These examples are obviously more severe, but apply the same logic you did to where somebody graduated from college. A person is a person, why would you even generalize like that.

I am not angry or anything,sorry if I came off as harsh, I was just a bit surprised. Have a good one.

Darryl, to the contrary I was brainwashed at UNC-G and UNC-CH. Believe it or not, I was actually leaning towards liberal viewpoints in college. Then I moved to a socialist country and changed to a conservative.

Dan,

You werent brainwashed if you thought for yourself and formed your own opinions based on your experiences....which you have done. I think everyone has a misconception about schools indoctrinating college students. Believe me the republican population at UNC is alive and growing each day. I do think that some students leave their home for the first time and become enamored with ideals that may be different from what they were exposed to (this cuts both ways). But I think that is part of the growing process. Some views become stronger as we age, and like Dan sometimes we encounter new things that shape us differently. Parents are not always going to like what the kids come home with (oh how I remember my family's reaction after I took a psych class.....thought I new everything ha ha) but it makes for great debate. Just because a student leaves college republican or liberal doesnt mean he or she was brainwashed.