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"I'd like to see the active recruitment of more minority teachers."

Is this to say that "minorities" are not actively recruited to teach now (to my knowledge they are recruited just as much as "non-minorities")? What difference does it make what color the teacher is, as long as he/she can reach our children? While I agree that teachers make far less than what they deserve, complaining that "minorities" aren’t getting a fair shake with regard to recruitment is not going to help the current situation, nor is it going to make the profession of teaching more attractive.

Bishop,
The difference is that children need to see role models that they can identify with. I presume that you are white... Imagine you are a kid and every president has been black. Every teacher you've ever had was black. Most of the successful business people in the world are black. Nearly everyone at the highest levels of society are black. I imagine that you might look around and begin to wonder if you had the same opportunities as all the black folks. It is the idea of rolemodeling.

Bob,
Great post. Hope some of the regular myopic folks read your post and UNDERSTAND it.

Bob, I would also start to wonder WHY there were no suitable white role models for me to emulate.

Karen made some good points, especially about salaries. However, recruitment of teachers is already a big priority in most school systems, especially for minorities. Future teachers can apply to be North Carolina Teaching Fellows. Their college education is free with the stipulation that they teach, I think it is 3 years in the system.

I have worked with wonderful role models of all races. I have also worked with a few racist teachers of all races. Teachers are just like everyone else, some good, some not so good.

The problem is not all money. Students see the struggles and problems their teachers deal with and do not choose to be teachers.

Making teaching a more respected and enjoyable profession, as it was when I began teaching, is key to recruitment.

Bob, you just love to assume things don't you? To my knowledge every teacher I've ever had has not been white. Frankly, some of my most influential teachers weren’t white at all. If you want to get right down to it, my Algebra II teacher from High School is the one who convinced me to go to college, after having been told by the school counselors that I “wasn’t college material” He is black. If you were truly as color-blind as you want to appear to be, it would make no difference what color the role-model was to a student.

It had more to do with the fact my math teacher was a strong male figure who actually listened to me than anything else. In general, there is a lack of male teachers especially with regard to grades K-6. If there’s a need for special recruitment it’s with male teachers, seeing as how teaching is predominantly a profession taken by women. That’s not to say women don’t do a good job teaching, I’m just stating a fact. Role modeling is less about race than you would like to portray. In fact most child psychology experts agree that children embrace role models who give feedback in a positive manner (even negative feedback), show that they care about the child, and listen to the child among other things.

Now if this makes me near-sighted or unable to comprehend the LTE, then by all means I’d love for you to explain this to Dr. Vincent Iannelli or Siggie Cohen, who both hold advanced degrees in the subject.

Bishop,

I agree that more male teachers are needed, but they are already recruited heavily. The fact of the matter is teaching has and still is seen as a "female job", it doesnt pay well and in a society where men still get paid more and often make the most in their respective families, it is not a job that most men flock to (with a starting salary of 26,800 in NC, teaching is not a job that easily supports a family). Many men who enter teaching are also typically encouraged, more often than their female counterparts (although it is getting better) to enter adminstration positions. So this job is not "taken by women"(I read this as women take over the job, shutting men out, I am not sure that is what you meant, I apologize if it is not) it is typically only women who will do the job(not to mention this state has plenty of openings each year that it struggles to fill if more men were interested). If teachers were paid better and given the respect they deserve, then schools would have no problem recruiting people of any race or gender. But I would just love to tell you how many times I have said "Im tired" or "what a day"(a comment many may make after a day at the office) and someone has responded with "but you just taught all week" or "You spend your day with 6 year olds, how hard is that" or "you get off at 3" (yeah right, if only people knew most teachers work way more than 40 hours a week) or "you get your summers off" (if only people realized that many teachers go to workshops during the summer, or get a 2nd job). I love my job, it is very rewarding and I wouldnt dream of doing anything else, but let me tell you it hurts when people belittle what you do...if people you know dont respect your job, then strangers sure dont. If a dentist, a lawyer, a doctor or even a professional athlete says he/she has had a bad week no one questions what they do. For some reason teachers are percieved as having it easy by many. Once that perception changes, the respect will come and more people will realize what an important and wonderful job teaching is.

k,

"in a society where men still get paid more"

That's simply untrue. Get with the program, it's not 1950 anymore. If you want proof that the wage-gap is nothing but a myth in America, then take a look at these links:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HSP/is_1_4/ai_66678566
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba392/
http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/28/commentary/everyday/sahadi_paytable/index.htm

"(I read this as women take over the job, shutting men out, I am not sure that is what you meant, I apologize if it is not) it is typically only women who will do the job(not to mention this state has plenty of openings each year that it struggles to fill if more men were interested)."

You read wrong.

... and don't preach to me about how hard teachers have to work. I know this first-hand. I see how tired my wife is when she comes home. I hear horrible stories about some of the kids, but hey she loves her job. What can you do?

"but let me tell you it hurts when people belittle what you do..."

I didn't belittle what you do. In fact we're in complete agreement that teachers, black, white, yellow, red, polka-dotted, male, female, or whatever do not get a fair shake. Teachers are the most underappreciated people on the planet as far as I'm concerned.

Bishop,

Whoa, settle down. I never said you personally belittled what teachers do. I only addressed the comment you made about male teachers and specifically mentioned that I may have misunderstood you. The last part of my letter was not directed at you, but in general, I am sorry if that was not clear, but my goodness you need to calm down!

Secondly, I am sorry if you do not think there is a wage gap, here are articles to prove you wrong: http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/censusandstatistics/a/paygapgrows.htm

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0763170.html

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3224418,00.html

Now do not get me wrong, this is not 1950, but to say that things are equall is completely ridiculous. And to insinuate that men somehow have a disadvantage in the teaching profession is also ridiculous. The only disadvantage they suffer is from society and the idea that teaching is somehow a female job. Ask any male teacher about the stigma. This does not mean I do not think you have a great respect for teachers. I read your other posts and you seem quick to jump down peoples throats, at least on this thread. The only thing I really disagree wtih you about is the wage gap, it is fact that women earn about 75% of what men do....hardly 1950 but far from where we should be. I am hoping that you would agree.

I wanted to add that men are recruited to teach heavily, so there is no disadvantage in that regard....they are wanted, not enough are interested. I hope that someday that changes.

Ignore my last website too, it discuses the world wide wage gap and I am mainly talking about the gap in the US. Also Bishop, thank your wife, Im sure she is amazing and the fact that you listen and care makes you one less person who fails to give a teacher the respect she deserves. (my husband has to hear my concerns too)

k,

I hate to break it to you, but the resources you cited are the same old and tired lies that feminists' groups repeat. To say that women only make 70 cents for every dollar a man makes is basically an apples to oranges comparison. Did you actually read the articles I posted?

I'm still trying to figure out where you think I specifically said men have a disadvantage in teaching. All I pointed out was that there are fewer men teaching than women.

Bishop, I did read your articles and I read mine as well....the thing is you automatically render mine the same "tired feminist lies". My articles are strictly the numbers and that was my point...you cannot argue with the fact that when you compare womens salaries to mens they make around 75cents for every dollar. One of your articles names 39 jobs that women make more than men (39 out of how many and you say that its "feminist lies"??...not to mention one of the jobs was lifeguarding and was not even 20, 000 a year) Secondly, your articles didnt neccessarily dispute the 75 cents on every dollar FACT, they attacked women by making excuses for why women get paid less (it is their fault). So yes I read your articles, and I dont buy it(in fact just because someone disagrees with the information you provide, it doesnt mean they didnt read it) It is your right to think that women only earn 75 cents on every dollar because of the choices they make, but dont say that it is not a fact, because the numbers are fact. We disagree on the reasons why those numbers are what they are. By reading the articles you posted I gather that you think women make less because they often take breaks to have children and raise them among other reasons the article listed. However, I think it is systematic because starting salaries are often at a descrepancy (unless of course women choose from the 39 jobs you posted)from the moment of hiring....before any life choices have been made. I think employers assume that a women will be having a child/raising one/out for sick days with that child. Apparently this is fem. rhetoric to you (Do you have a problem with equal pay and equal rights for women...not even women, for all?) At this point Bishop, there is no reason why we should continue this discussion.....we both agree that teachers are underpaid and underrespected, and we both think that good teachers are what matters, whether they are male, female or any race! But we are never going to agree on the pay issue.

"If there is a need for special recruitment its for male teachers, seeing as how teaching is a job predominately taken by women"

This is where I thought you implied a disadvantage in my first response (especially with the use of the word "taken") In the following postings I was trying to follow up on my own comments regarding male recruitment.

Also, is there a reason that you are so sarcastic?

Note the following:
"Bob, you just love to assume things dont you?"
"get with the program"
"Dont preach to me" (when I wasnt even preaching to you about teachers not getting respect, those were general comments"
and you inulted the information I linked....You can disagree with it all you want, but to dismiss it as less than fact, when your comments are only opinion is misleading.

I have read you on other threads and you are not so demeaning, and if any of my comments came off as too harsh I apologize, but insulting comments are alot of the reason why I dont always post. I have not problem with you believing what you believe, I am not going to call your sites sexist rhetoric just because I think they are wrong, give others the same respect. If you cannot handle other opinions then why bother posting?

On that note, I am glad you care enough about our educational system to post, we need more people like you who care about our schools and our teachers. Good night.

"Do you have a problem with equal pay and equal rights for women?"

No, I don't have a problem with it. I'm all for EQUAL rights. What I'm not for is all the special treatment that some groups are given. Essentially, you’re saying is that you don’t believe in rewarding workers based on their experience. You claim that the articles I posted attack women for the choices they make. But let’s put this in perspective. If that’s the case, then anyone, no matter what their sex, should have the right to take time off from their job (months or years) and then come back to work expecting a raise and a promotion. In fact men who choose to take the full length of their paternity leave are passed over for promotion and raises, as often as women who choose to have children. Men who choose to be with their families more, make less money. Is that wrong? It’s the same argument isn’t it?

“in fact just because someone disagrees with the information you provide, it doesnt mean they didnt read it)”

That’s fine that you disagree k, but you didn’t provide a solid reason as to why you disagree, which led me to believe you didn’t fully read the articles I posted. The statistics you provided in your articles are the same stats and arguments that have been offered since the 1950’s. Were women once discriminated against in business? Absolutely! Was it wrong? Extremely! But times have changed. There are more US Government programs than ever, which provide funding (grants not loans, although loans can be had for very little interest too) for women who choose to start their own business, but you must be a woman to qualify for these programs. In fact, between 1987 and 1996 women-owned business grew at a faster rate than the US economy.

There is statistical data that shows women make more than men in some fields, you discounted it only because a few of the jobs listed pay around $20,000 a year. It still remains a fact that women make more than men in some fields. We’ve already discussed that there are few men in the profession of teaching. We also discussed that teachers make very little money (which isn’t right IMO). And still the articles I posted, point to differences like this, in explaining the wage-gap myth. You still cite the “76-cents on the dollar” as evidence of sexism, yet you fail to take into account the underlying role of personal choice.

I did take your arguments into account and I never said that personal choice plays no role in the salary gap, but my argument is a double edged sword. For instance, take a two parent household who just had their first child baby, they both have good jobs, but she makes less. They decide as a couple that they would like one of them to stay at home with the baby for a year. Because she makes less, she does it. Three years later she is struggling to find a job. Is this personal choice? Yes, but society makes it pretty hard for families to reverse the choice. In situations where the wife makes just as much or more, she is often still the one that stays home, because society makes it pretty hard on Men who choose to do it (I know a handful that do it and in almost every conversation they always bring up the importance of the job they had before....too many people still see staying at home as not being important). So to say it is as simple as women making life choices that lead to the wage gap is silly. yes it is part of it of course (you cant be out of the workforce for 3 years and expect to make the same as someone who never left) but there is more to it than just a choice. Many women may have preferred to stay at work, but made less than their husbands so stayed home. Also, I thing the jobs that women end up in are a direct result of society's influence. There are "womens jobs", like teachers, librarians, and office assistants which are typically held by females(and which are low paying) and when men enter those positions they are often time judged or questioned. If you watch how adults speak to children, from a very young age, its easy to see how we inadvertantly encourage this (you dont hear too many people going, "My you will be a great teacher when you grow up Billy", or "You will be a great Father". We do not give little boys dolls very often (girls arent born with a doll gene) and we dont encourage girls or boys nearly enough to break these molds. Things are so much better than they used to be, but there is still an idea that men as teachers, nurses and stay at home dads is this weird thing, when in reality both sexes should be able to work in a position that fullfills them, and they should get paid accordingly. I am going to be out of town for the weekend, so I hope this clarifies some things. I do agree that life choices contribute to the wage gap, but I think that there is a reason beyond simple desire, that women make those choices (although many do choose because they truly want to stay home, which is totally awesome)I simply think this issue is too complex to wave away with an explanation such as the one you provided. Yes your reasons contribute to the 76cents on a dollar, but it doesnt not completely explain it away IMO.