News-Record.com

Currently reading about the Civil War ("Battle Cry of Freedom - James McPherson), I gotta say this oft-repeated statement:

"The economy of this country would collapse without the boost we gladly accept from "illegal" labor. "

Sound ALOT like what the slave owners said about emancipation.

Great! Then have the "immigrants" do the paperwork, register for citizenship then, and this is a tough one, assimilate with the American Culture.
This has been the problem all along. The hispanic community has not assimilated into American culture by embracing the english language and other inherently american ideals. There is the mindset that they will work here and send money back home so there is this continuous tie to their homeland...sever it and either live here or leave here...

Massive use of our education, healthcare, and criminal justice systems by illegals, work boycotts by illegals, marches by illegals demanding rights while waving the Mexican flags, and now our national anthem has be rewritten in Spanish with some of the phrases changed.

I hope these tactics will backfire and the govt. will finally get some backbone to do something about illegal immigration. These tactics certainly indicate to me that illegals do not want to assimilate, as you duly noted Crypto.

Today is Labor Day on the Mexican calendar. It's also May Day, a day of communist celebration in the former Soviet Union. What a coincidence.

I would like to remind Madan of one major difference between our forefathers' immigration and the overwhelming infiltration of our country by illegal hispanics. When our ancestors came there was no one like her to assist them plus there were no laws to make them illegal.

When they came there was no governmental handouts or freebies at the taxpayers expense either. They worked, assimilated and started this nation that we now know as America. As others have pointed out, that is not the case with the hispanic people.

I say let them walk out. I hope everyone that does gets fired. It would show THEM that they do not own or run this country.

It is getting a little wearisome to read letters from someone not wet behind the ears yet tell us how we ought to be doing things regarding illegals. While there is a lot to be said about the enthusiasm of youth/inexperience, there is more to be said about maturity and wisdom.

INS should have busses backed up and motor's running to round up and transport all illegals back to where they came from. How nice that they have decided to all come together to make the job easier. Today, INS, Homeland (so-called) Security have no excuse for not doing their job.

As the line from an old TV show went: "Head em up , move em out!"

Let's imagine you come home one day to find your house has been burglarized.
Inside, you find a family of Mexicans. Dad, mom, 2 kids. One kid is pregnant.
And they inform you of the following:
1)You are forbidden by law from calling the police.
2)You must let this family remain in your house for as long as they want
3)You must feed this family out of your own pocket.
4)You must pay for all of their medical expenses out of your own pocket
5)You must pay for the birth of the pregnant daughter’s baby, and support it with food, etc.
6)You must pay for their education, including college
7)You must clothe this family out of your own pocket
8)You must provide them with a car
9)You must provide them with insurance
10)This family is not required to do any work

You must do all of this because they illegally entered your house.

This is what illegal immigrants are doing to our country.

When my ancestors came here they were forced to come here as slaves. Forced to work for no pay and little food, shelter, clothing and no respect. We were beaten when we tried to learn the english language. We were robbed of most the possession that we accumulated and denied citizenship for years even if we were born here. I guess by now you know I a African American. My problem with illegal immigrants is it undermines the right that all americans fought for in the 50's and 60's when we protested for fair wages, health benefits, a guarranteed lunch break for 8 hours work, a safe regulated work environment, and social security benefits be paid for retirement(even if you won't be socially secure when you retire). Company's stand to gain a lot when they don't meet these standards and they can afford to pay $10 to $15 dollars an hour when they don't follow the staandard wage agreement. Of course they do jobs that some Americans refuse to do because we demand to be treated with respect and as humans should. The struggle still continues even today. Remember the Poultry Plant a few years ago with the doors locked. This is what we should not allow to happen again and all workers should have that right. Follow the rules and guidelines and pay a decent wage for work done and any able bodied person will work for a faie wage and some respect.

Madan,

“…and this country's responsibility toward immigrants, illegal or not.”

If you’re an Illegal Alien, you don’t have any of the rights and privileges that come with citizenship. While there may be a small number of Latinos who pay taxes, the majority do not. Illegal Aliens crowd our jails, tax our welfare systems, and receive free education paid for by American Citizens. The United States of America does not have an obligation to support the citizens of Mexico.

You might say that: “Mexicans take the jobs that Americans don’t want.” Personally, I think that’s hogwash. The truth is, Latinos take these jobs and accept extremely low wages. It’s not that Americans don’t want these jobs. It’s just that Americans have been outbid by illegal labor. Illegal Aliens, don’t speak up about the poor wages because they don’t want to be sent home. Because of the nature of our free economy, businesses that hire Illegal Aliens force other business to compete in a similar manner. It’s a vicious cycle.

It’s clear that you do not understand the concept of a free market society. If you did you’d realize that once Illegal Aliens decide to pull out of the labor market in protest, the void will have to be filled. If the price for labor goes up, so be it. They will have surrendered the “jobs that even Americans won’t work” to the very people you claim won’t work them in the first place. JDR is exactly right, you sound just like the slave owners who were against Emancipation Proclamation.

Your indignant attitude towards those who have no responsibility regarding the well-being of Illegals will only be met with opposition. If you truly want to be taken seriously then I suggest you convince your friends who are Illegal Aliens, to learn American English, learn to obey American laws, and above all enter the United States of America legally.

TugOWar, I often hear the argument of pro illegal groups that these people are fighting for their civil rights just as blacks did in the 60's.

I think this comparison is a slap in the face to the struggle of black Americans for civil rights. As you said, your ancestors were forced to come here, illegals are not. Your ancestors were held as slaves, illegals are not. Your ancestors, and perhaps you depending on your age, were not allowed to eat lunch at the same counter, drink from the same water fountain, or ride in the same part of the bus as white Americans. This doesn't apply to illegals either. Your ancestors became American citizens and learned to speak English. Most illegals do neither.

What say you on this comparison?

Madan,

I think the responses to your letter say it all. This is a fairly balanced message board in terms of partisanship. And you got slammed by everyone from both sides.

The only thing I'd add to Yvonne's statement "I say let them walk out" is that I'd like to see them keep on walking right on across the border back to their country.

jcackbar: great comparison.

There are people ALL around the world who would love to come to the United States and assimilate into our culture. They would do anything to enter this land of prosperity. Think about the folks in Rwanda, Sudan, and other troubled areas of the world.

Yet these illegals somehow seem to think they DESERVE something. They deserve nothing!

It's good to see such debate over a hot topic. Some of the postings up here though are simply idiotic. How could you compare your home being burglarized by a family of mexicans to the illegal immigration in the country?

How could anyone simply suggest INS should have buses ready to "Head em up and move em out"?

Do you know most illegal immigrants use false (made up ) social security numbers and pay millions in taxes they see very little of or in some cases, never see a penny of, due to their illegal status ? Most can't collect the yearly tax refunds american citizens are entitled to.
(taxes that they paid.

Do you have any idea just how hard these people have to work to make ends meet? Do you have any idea some of the inhumane conditions they have to work in - just to put food on their tables and clothes on their families backs ?

They're simply asking the government for a legal status so they can provide for themselves and their familes. Stop trying to make criminals out of hardworking people trying to live better lives.

There are illegal immigrants we should refuse (the gangbangers, the drug dealers - the criminals). Simply rejecting them because they speak a different language, look different is highly unfair or simply

In my opinion, most opposition to the immigration reform is racially based. These people are here already and will continue to live and work here for centuries to come. Is it simply the fear of losing your job to a mexican or foreigner that's the problem? Is it the the fact you really don't see them as equals because of their backgrounds? If they speak a different language and choose not to learn english aren't their opportunities somewhat limited anyway ?

Almost every non-white race has had to go through this criticism. Remember, most of us came from elsewhere. Most whites in fact forced their way in here and brought other races with them by the shiploads to do the dirty work.

Now equal opportunity is here (at least that's what they say) there's a desperate need to secure the borders because the immigrants might take over.

If it's not one minority taking over, it's always the other, the blacks,the mexicans or hispanics or africans, jamaicans - the list goes on.

Let them be. They're equally human and still deserve to live better if they're able and willing.

To the person speaking for blacks being forced here and illegals not-stop trying to support your argument with facts you know don't fit-slavery would still exist today if not for people that stood for what they believed they deserved. Discrimination continues TODAY and that too is racially based is it not?

CORRECTION- Most discrimination is racially based.

I'm black and I know for a fact our presence here isn't exactly 100% welcome.

“Do you know most illegal immigrants use false (made up ) social security numbers”

I hate to break it to you, but many of these “made up” social security numbers belong to actual American citizens. Do you know what that constitutes? Wrap your mind around this: it’s called identity theft. Whether you like it or not that is a felony, and nobody has the right to do it. Regardless if they pay taxes or not, they can use that false social security number to gain a job in someone else’s name and commit crimes in someone else’s name.

“Do you have any idea just how hard these people have to work to make ends meet?”

Do you have any idea how hard some Americans have to work in order to make ends meet? Life is hard, get used to it.

“They're simply asking the government for a legal status so they can provide for themselves and their familes.”

Then fill out the application, and wait. If it takes 20 years to become a citizen, that’s not my problem. Americans don’t owe Illegal Aliens anything.

“In my opinion, most opposition to the immigration reform is racially based.”

That’s one person’s opinion. Usually the ones who cry racism are racists themselves. To quote Friedrich Nietzsche:

"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

-------------------------------------------

“Almost every non-white race has had to go through this criticism.”

I beg your pardon, but my ancestors in Scotland would oppose that viewpoint. The Scots were treated far worse than any Immigrant worker ever has been in the US. You cry racism, but then diminish the plight of other minorities in this country. Who, as I must point out, are in fact United States citizens. The people you’re talking about have no right to be here. They've broken our laws in order to get here. Now, if someone is of Mexican descent, and they’re a citizen, I don’t see any reason that they shouldn’t be afforded all the rights and privileges that come with citizenship. Otherwise they have no right to voice.

"slavery would still exist today if not for people that stood for what they believed they deserved"

Which people are you referring to-- the slaves, or people like Grant and Sherman?

Or was your comment referring to the economic progress in the last 140 years by the formerly slave states?

Does anyone else have a problem with the poster's statement?

"I'm black and I know for a fact our presence here isn't exactly 100% welcome."

Care to share the facts? Anyone is welcome here in my book as long as they follow the laws of the land. My black next door neighbors are 100% welcome in my house, to have their kids play with mine, to share a meal.

I noticed MarksAlot you mentioned the taxes that illegals contribute. True some of them do contribute taxes, but others are paid under the table in cash and do not contribute in taxes. Bishops point about falsifying SS documents is also excellent, that's illegal.

What you and others of your mindset always conveniently omit is the staggering costs in healthcare, education, criminal justice, and other social services for these people. Do their SS contributions exceed their costs?

What will happen to these people when they get older, retire, and require more healthcare? Without SS and retirement income who is going to pay for their care? Perhaps their children will help, but us taxpayers will continue to pay for them.

By the way MarksAlot, slavery still does exist today in some African countries. Maybe you could offer your efforts and resources to right that wrong.

BICHOP:

TELL ME WHY YOU DON'T SEE ANY WHITE POEPLE WORKING ON THE FIELD PICKING VEGIES OTHER THAN DRIVING THE TRACTORS?

TELL ME HOW MANY ADULT WHITE WORKERS ARE WILLING TO WORK FOR MINIMUN WAGE?

DO YOU THINK YOU COULD LIVE ON 150.OO USD A WEEK?
DO YOU THINK YOU COULD PROVIDE FOR YOUR SELF AND YOUR FAMILY OVERSEAS OR SOUTH OF THE BORDER WITH 600.00 USD A MONTH?

YOU CAN BARELY SURVIVE WITH 600.00 HERE.
THE FACT IS THEY WORK HARD FOR THE MONEY AS LITTLE AS IT IS, WHAT THEY CHOOSE TO DO WITH IT IS COMPLETELY UP TO THEM.

ALSO DON'T GET STARTED ABOUT THE SCOTTISH BECAUSE THAT WAS A DIFFERENT ERA AND DIFFERENT PART OF THE WORLD. IS THIS ABOUT THE SCOTS VS THE ENGLISH WANTING THEIR INDEPENDENCE?

JUST LIKE MEXICANS VS THE SPANISH AND FRENCH SO MANY DECADES AGO,THERE IS NO RELATION TO THE CURRENT SITUATION HERE IN THE US.

THE ISSUE OF ID THEFT-HOW MUCH OF THAT PROBLEM WOULD WE SOLVE BY GIVING THEM LEGAL STATUS? BESIDES, HOW MANY LATIN PEOPLE GO TO JAIL WITH A WHITE PERSONS NAME?

OF COURSE ITS WRONG STEALING SOMEONE ELSE'S IDENTITY-BUT IT'S NOT A ONE RACE PROBLEM. I KNOW A LOT OF REGULAR AMERICAN CITIZENS SELLING ID'S.

THIS IS ANOTHER WAY AMERICANS EXPLOIT IMMIGRANTS BY MAKING MORE MONEY OUT OF THEIR SITUATION. THE PROBLEM'S NOT JUST WITH IMMIGRANTS-IT HAPPENS WITH ALL OTHER RACES EVEN WHITE ON WHITE.

THIS IS A PROBLEM THAT'S EXISTED WAY BEFORE THE CURRENT IMMIGRATION "CRISIS".

GIVE THEM LEGAL STATUS AND YOU WOUNT' HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THEM EXHAUSTING SS AND HEALTHCARE COSTS-DON'T GIVE THEM LEGAL STATUS AND THE PROBLEM CONTINUES.

I WON'T EVEN ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF BLACKS NOT BEING 100% WELCOME, IT'S AN OLD STORY THAT DOESN'T NEED TO BE TOLD.

ARE YOU YELLING MARKSALOT? THAT'S WHAT ALL CAPS DENOTES TO ME.

If blacks not being welcome is an old story that doesn't need to be told then why did you bring it up and say it was factual?

Your solution is to legalize illegal immigrants no? How many, all of them? Do we continue to allow more to come in the country? Just open up the borders and poof, legal status? What about immigrants who came here legally and are now American citizens? Just tell them sorry you had to go years playing by the rules, now we're giving citizenship to illegals just because they are here?

Your complaint about low wages is valid, yet it should be directed at Vicente Fox and the corrupt Mexican govt. Mexico has massive resources in oil, minerals, tourism, and good beer, yet the govt. is unable to create an economy where it's citizens can make a living. If Mexican citizens could make a decent wage in their home country they wouldn't be flocking here by the millions. Their govt. actually encourages illegal immigration, as illegal workers here send mucho dinero back home.

By the way your math doesn't add up. $5.15/hour X 40 hours = $206 or $824/month, not $150/week or $600/month. If sure many work more than 40 hours too. Your argument also sounds as if all of them make minimum wage. I do alot of work in poultry processing plants that are heavily populated with Latinos and they start around $7-$9/hour.

"BESIDES, HOW MANY LATIN PEOPLE GO TO JAIL WITH A WHITE PERSONS NAME?" Are we jailing Latin people? Is anyone there to translate Latin to English for them?

Dan,

There is no comparison. I love being American. That is the right of mine that my ancestors fought and suffered for. I believe in helping others and that everybody should enjoy life and the pursuits for happiness. But when my ancestors came here they were beaten if they tried to learn the English language and communicate with each other and the rest of society. They had to learn secretly by candle light after a hard days work or by coming together at churches using the bible and other means. They didn’t have any early buses running to pick them up to teach the English. They were not even given books or a school to learn. Early churches were used to educate them. No federal dollars were allotted for health care, free lunch, or English as a second language. There were no additional employees added to ensure that they understood or communicated to properly when they needed help. They were beaten for trying to learn. Are there any dogs or police water cannons out for today’s protest? So Dan the answer is no. I feel that the world has benefited from the struggles my ancestors went through. That is why I am an American Citizen today and deserve every right to be here as an American.

"ALSO DON'T GET STARTED ABOUT THE SCOTTISH BECAUSE THAT WAS A DIFFERENT ERA AND DIFFERENT PART OF THE WORLD."

Oh I get it. Only people with non-white skin can complain about injustice; is that it? As I recall slavery in the United States took place in a different era, much different than the way things are now.

“OF COURSE ITS WRONG STEALING SOMEONE ELSE'S IDENTITY-BUT IT'S NOT A ONE RACE PROBLEM. I KNOW A LOT OF REGULAR AMERICAN CITIZENS SELLING ID'S.”

I never said the problem of identity theft was limited to Illegal Aliens. The only thing I said was that without a valid social security number, they would have the ability to ruin innocent citizen’s lives.

“I WON'T EVEN ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF BLACKS NOT BEING 100% WELCOME, IT'S AN OLD STORY THAT DOESN'T NEED TO BE TOLD.”

Why not? I’d really like to hear your take on this. Oh and by the way, the name’s Bishop, not BICHOP. Also the caps-lock key is stuck on your keyboard. It’s the key on the far left that says “Caps Lock.”

Cheers

Thanks for answering my question TugOWar. Your ancestors have risen above what would seem to be insurmountable odds to succeed in this country and it took centuries to do it. Compare that to people who come here illegally and a few years later demand the same rights as citizens.

This has nothing to do with illegal immigration, but have you ever been to the Booker T. Washington National Monument? It's near Smith Mountain Lake in VA. My wife and I visited it last month.

Mr. Washington was born a slave, scratched and scraped to get an education, and then founded the Tuskegee Institute in Alabama. He was an amazing man with an inspiring story. This park is only 1.5 hours from Greensboro, it's free, and well worth the time to visit.

Bishop (aka BICHOP) writes: "Also the caps-lock key is stuck on your keyboard. It’s the key on the far left that says “Caps Lock.”"

Ouch!

Apart from the hotly debated issues above, I think that, as strategy, today's boycott delivers a lousy message, and not only because of its whiny, shrill, demanding tone.

That message is . . . . [silence] . . .

If the sky is supposed to fall today, it hasn't fallen yet. Viewed strictly as a stunt, it's a bad stunt because no effects will be visible to most Americans. If the boycott continued for a month, we'd probably see less fresh lettuce at higher prices, but the visible effects would be negligible and not all bad.

First of all Dan.

I asked how many adult white people are willing to work for minimum wage!!

Then I asked how many white people can support their families overseas or south of the border with 150.00 USD a week or 600.00 USD a month!
Because that what some immigrants are getting payed in Florida for picking and Carrying 100lb baskets of oranges.

This is not an issue about citizenship. I have not heard anybody saying or asking for immediate citizenship. All they want is to work here without being prosecuted or treated like criminals.

I also don't under stand the argument of some Americans saying that if we let immigrants stay that there will not be an "American Colture"

First of all Can someone tell me what's the "American Colture or the American Way of Life"

How many adults of any race are willing to work for minimum wage? Not too many. That's why an illegal can work in a poultry plant for $8/hour, the market won't bear minimum wage in most sectors. What does race or nationality have to do with minimum wage in the first place? Can you cite the facts where orange pickers are making minumum wage?

Actually I think you could live pretty well in Mexico for $600/month. Do you know what the minimum wage is in Mexico? $4.50. Now I can hear you thinking..... $4.50 compared to $5.15 in the US isn't a huge difference right? Well it's $4.50 a DAY, not per hour.

Not an issue of citizenship? You think they just want to work here for decades, remain separated from their families, and go home when they retire? I have some swamp land for sale.

I assume you mean culture instead of colture. If there isn't an American culture why are you typing in English and not a native African language? Why do I have an American flag flying in front of my home instead of an Irish flag?

Glad you found the caps lock key.

“I asked how many adult white people are willing to work for minimum wage!!”

Well, I’m white, and I work for minimum wage at one of my jobs. I have three of them.

"All they want is to work here without being prosecuted or treated like criminals."

Illegally entering a country makes you a criminal. Falsifying federal records makes you a criminal. Nobody is exempt from the law.

"I also don't under stand the argument of some Americans saying that if we let immigrants stay that there will not be an 'American Colture'"

Colture? Did you mean culture? No one is saying that. What people are saying is that Illegal Aliens have no desire to learn the English language. If they did, I wouldn’t be staring at signs written in English and Español. English isn’t the National language just for fun. When you come to a foreign land, you show respect, by learning the language and customs of that land.

These people cross our borders illegally, and then call themselves “Immigrants.” I’m sorry, but that’s not immigration. That’s obtaining the status of Illegal Alien. An Immigrant follows the law. An Immigrant learns the language of the land he or she is going to, and an Immigrant wants to learn about the customs of the land they are going to. Waving a Mexican flag in order to show your dislike for the US shows me that these folks don’t care about any of that.

If they want to fight for something, they should fight to oust the corrupt government in their own country instead of taking advantage of the welfare in ours.

"Illegally entering a country makes you a criminal. Falsifying federal records makes you a criminal."

Ya know I just don't know which part of illegal people don't understand. That's why the PC crowd uses "undocumented workers".

"Nobody is exempt from the law." Except for OJ Simpson and people who enter this country illegally. Unfortunately.

Dan, I stand corrected. heh

brain444 the sky did not fall today as many of the PC crowd had hoped. Lowe's was full, all the local Mexican owned resturants are opened and laughing at the one's who want to call attention to themselves. Oh yea, Wal-mart was parking lot was full of Mexican's comeing out with brimming shopping carts as most are getting ready for Cinco de Mayo. They too are laughing at the PC crowd and the other Latio's who want to set themselves up for a trip back home.
All the landscaping companies doing work on the high dollar homes had their usual crews out working. Tomato fields were being planted as usual with the usual number of Mexican workers, some legal , some not I suppose. Guess only those who are lead around by the nose showed up for some idiotic protest.
Hope that INS was doing it's job and with a lot of hope Home Land (lack of ) security was doing theirs. IMO, if they are illegal, ship em home and if they come back and get caught the second time, lock em up. I beleive Gitmo has some more room there and then lack of security could allow them to escape into Castro's Cuba and they could go to work in the Cane fields. Language would be no problem. Lack of identification would be no problem either. Castro would insure that taxes are paid, they would be fed and have free medical care and no longer be a burden on this country.

I don't want to hear anything, Marks about discrimination for I am Scot-Irish and Cherokee. You see brother you don't have jack on any kind of discrimination.

Dear All,

Although this is a very difficult subject I can see that there is a lot of interest from various realms. Le me start by introducing myself. I am neither a U.S. Citizen, nor an illegal alien, but I do work (legally) for a US company in the Triad area. I have a graduate degree in business, I am not Hispanic, I am Mexican (if you want to know the difference let me know). I love this country and mine as well, and please don’t make me choose.

It seems we are missing the issues at this postings, please let me summarize them and if you think I am wrong, I am sure you will let me know.

A) Border Security
B) Path to Legal Status
C) Culture Assimilation
D) Economic Impact of Aliens

Because of time constraints I am only going to address two of these issues, culture Assimilation and Economic Impact.

With regards to culture assimilation try to imagine or if you have traveled outside the US, (non English speaking country) and remember trying to communicate with locals, it was a very difficult and stressful situation, now try that being 7 years old, can you imagine? They are going to need help. As far as I have seen most of Latinos I have met speak what I would call an acceptable amount of English. Now, this is not enough, but, does anyone here have German, Italian, Polish ancestors. How many of them that first arrived and learned English? It was the second and third generation that completely assimilated the US culture. Do not expect the new arrivals to become fluent in English in a year, it took most of us several years to learn it too.
Latinos coming into the US society will be assimilated “resistance is futile” (sorry I had to get that Star Trek quote in there). Just don’t expect it to be overnight, take a look a the Latino Population in Texas, Florida and California slowly but steadily they are being assimilated. There are going to be hic-ups on the way, in my opinion one very big one is the US National Anthem being translated and sung in Spanish, this is not respectful and should be banned, (along with flag burning, personally I was taught to respect my flag, defending flag burning as freedom of speech, is not, in my humble opinion, respecting your country, your family or yourself. Again this is just my humble opinion).
This is just a little of what I would like to contribute with regards to culture assimilation.

Now with regards to the excessive use of resources by the Illegal community in the US let me start by saying this:

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIT!!!

I was shouting but not anymore, don’t believe everything you hear and see on TV. This is a summary of a study done by UNC Chapel Hill (Go-Tar Heels, sorry personal quote in there too). This is what they had to say about the economic impact:

A) Estimated Major Public Cost (Taxpayer money) $816,559,000
This includes law enforcement, Hospitals, Welfare, etc
All that Lou Doubs and others say Hispanics steal from you
B) Estimated Taxes Contributed $755,520,000
This all the State, Federal, Sales etc. Taxes they have paid.
NET LOSS $61,039,000

There is a NET loss of about 61 MM dollars, this is a lot but not as much as many people want to make you believe. Now, there are several factors that the study adds and this are:
9.2 BILLION, yes, BILLION DOLLARS in revenue for North Carolina companies
89,000 additional jobs to take care of all the Latinos in NC
And the most important of all 1.9 BILLION, YES, BILLIONS AGAIN, in wage savings that passed on to you so that your lettuce, house, lawn etc does not cost you as much and you have additional disposable income and go to Best Buy and get yourself a Plasma TV made in China.

BOTTOM LINE: LATINOS (BOTH LEGAL AND ILLEAGAL ARE NOT DRAINING THE STATE OR FEDERAL RESOURCES AS SOME PEOPLE WANT YOU TO BELIEVE, AT LEAST NOT IN THE PROPORTIONS THEY WANT YOU TO BELIEVE.)

The link to a summary of this study is as follows:
http://www.kenan-flagler.unc.edu/assets/documents/2006_KenanInstitute_HispanicStudy_presentation.pdf

Please keep your cool head when discussing this issue, don’t let it become an “I am right you are wrong” type of situation this will get everyone in trouble. And most of all, doubt everything you hear about this including me, go to the internet and look for different opinions you will see a much wider world.

The United States of America is a great Country for many different reasons, my son and daughter are North Carolinians and I will teach them to love their country, fight for it and respect it as I was taught to do for mine. I am very grateful for the opportunity to work and live here, and, as a guest, I respect the laws which are now mine.
Good luck to everyone here.

Kind regards,

Mephistopheles-Lawyer

mrproduce,

I agree that backlash is coming. I think if you lined up those that support illegal immigration against those that don't, there would be no comparison.

On one side, you'd have the illegals themselves and their families. Also, you'd have some wealthy short-sighted businesses owners who profit from the cheap labor.

On the other side, you'd have people who actually work for a living and play by the rules when it comes to income tax, etc.

I have a suggestion. How about tomorrow all of the legal citizens of this country have a layout day. Then we'll see how well the illegals get along without US.

Yellowdog, if that occured Tuesday, you can count on close to half the folks being replaced by illegals by Wednesday or NLT Thursday. In other words your butt would be fired and replaced with one who will work for less.

Mephistpheles,

I don’t know where you got your business degree, but they taught us to use valid studies where I got mine. There's a huge gaping hole in your argument. The study you point to makes no distinction between legal immigrants, and illegal aliens. The purpose of the document you cited was:

"To document the nature, magnitude, and geographical manifestations of Hispanic population change in North Carolina."

There is no way to know how much of your 61 Million is due to legal immigrants vs. illegal aliens. Yet, you stand on your soapbox shouting at folks to get their facts straight. How about using a valid study before condemning those who express their views on illegal aliens? Present a study that shows how much Hispanic illegal aliens contribute in taxes, and then you’ll have an argument worthy of consideration.

Nobody in this forum is complaining about folks who are here legally.

MLawyer, first of all thank you for the following:

1)Being here legally
2)Contributing to the country by working
3)Teaching your children respect and love of country.
4)Respecting the laws of our country.

Folks like you are more than welcome to be here.

As for assimilation. I understand travelling to a foreign country and not knowing the language, done it several times. I'm going to Russia in July and the only word I know is "nyet". But I will only be there for a short time as a tourist and have no plans on learning the language. By contrast, when I lived in France, I studied hard beforehand and made it a point to learn the language. When one comes to LIVE in a foreign country they should learn the language.

We do agree on the national anthem being translated into Spanish. Whoever is helping these protesters isn't too PR savvy. Waving Mexican flags and translating our anthem ain't gonna help the cause at all, it further alienates Americans.

MrP, I realize your frustration, but I think it is darn near impossible to repatriate 11 million people.

Here is my solution I posted a few weeks ago.

1) Put the National Guard on the borders and close 'em tomorrow.

2) Require all illegals to register with the govt. and get an ID card. Those who don't register are deported.

3) Impose stiff fines on employers who hire people without the ID card.

4) Any immigrants who break the law are deported after they serve their sentences.

5) Streamline the citizenship process to about 4-5 years. It is cumbersome and requires too many years at present.

6) The citizenship process should require fluency in English and knowledge of American laws and history. (Then they could teach American history to American high school students!!)

7) For those who do not want to become citizens and just work here, issue work visas with expiration dates that would have to be renewed.

Bishop,

You are absolutely right, nowhere does it say X amount of Money is comes for Taxes collected form legal immigrants and Y amount from illegal. But, if you go through the Power Point presentation you will see that it finds that around 56% of Hispanics in NC are here Illegally. So you do the math, it’s late and I am a little tired after mowing the lawn this afternoon, (the gardener did not show up for work today, ha-ha)
One more thing, the 1.9 Billion that comes for wage savings, where do you think it comes from? Is it that legal Hispanics don’t like to get paid fair market value for their jobs?
It is my opinion that most of this savings comes from illegal immigrants, even if it’s a linear relations that comes out to be almost as much as the total expenditures in both legal en illegal Hispanics, so maybe I should be thanking them for the savings?
One last thing, if I offended you I apologize, it was never my intention to grandstand. I thought the info might be helpful especially since it about NC a place we all love.

Dan,
Most definitely the PR guys SUCK. I do not sponsor either for or against legalization of the current illegal immigrants, that, is up to the citizens of the U.S. All I want to do is put info out there can help people make a more informed decision, note that I don’t say a right or wrong, its not for me to judge, this is your “house”, your rules, your neighbor should not make you change the rules, he might ask you, and if he does, he should do it with respect, but ultimately it’s up to you to make the decision.
Good night and good luck to everyone.

ML

M-Lawyer, thanks for your thoughtful posts. I think the U.S. still does a good job of assimilation over time and should increase legal immigration substantively. (I also believe in a fence.)

The problem with protests like today's are that they pose alternative and oppositional identities for Mexicans in America. The message is that if you're a real Mexican, you'll protest, fly the Mexican flag, not show up at work, and engage in other overt signs that you're "one of us." It poses going to work as cultural treason. Right now, that's a hard sell, but given the way identity politics work in America, it's not inconceivable that that model of Mexican-American identity will gain ascendancy. That, in my opinion, would be a very bad thing.

Identities organized around victimhood are powerful things: the South and its cult of grievance over the Civil War is a case in point.

Everyone please get out and vote today. These primaries are so important. For instance, if you are in district three (horse penn creek/new garden area) Linda Shaw has three other candidates running for her seat. Maybe one of them will represent your ideals better then she. News and Record is reporting that most people are not interested in this primary. Well if that's true and these people don't get off their rumps and go vote then she is the only choice they will have come election day! Sorry for the off topic, I just didnt know where else to put this.

littlebuddy, this was as good as place as any to post your notice of elections today. You are right about interest being low, but that is exactly what the incumbants want in order to continue to stay in office. If people want a change the primary is a great way of starting. If enough turn out, then the incumbant may not have the opportunity to stand for election in November.
So get out and vote in the primary today. If you don't vote, don' whine about not having a choice of who to vote for in November. Today is your day of decision. What will your's be? I'm on my way to the polls at 10AM.

Dan, I realize you can't ship em all but I can tell you that if you start making it difficult to come here and stay illegally by shipping even just a few at random, chances are it will slow down the invasion. In the meantime , you are right, put the military on the borders and shut em down tight. Whack those doing the hiring of illegals in large numbers with not just fines but huge fines and time behind bars. That will slow it to a trickle. So far all I am hearing coming out of the Senate is a bandaide to put on a sucking chest wound. The House version was a bit better but the PC crowd doesn't like it. Call your Senator's and tell em if they vote for the McCain-Kennedy bill, then your vote is for someone else come election time. End the illegal invasion!

Mephistpheles,

“…it finds that around 56% of Hispanics in NC are here Illegally. So you do the math,”

I did do the math, and it’s not that simple. By your account we’d simply need to multiply the numbers by either 56% or 44%. This assumes that 100% of either group is paying taxes or not paying taxes. Think about that realistically. Would 100% of a group pay its taxes? Considering the IRS has an entire division devoted to tax fraud, I’d be inclined to say no. While there were some interesting facts in the study you presented, it still isn’t valid, because it lacks a breakdown of who pays what.

And if you do vote today, PLEASE do not vote for Bruce "living it up in Hawaii on your dime" Davis. In fact, don't vote to reelect any incumbent and I'll be happy.

Yellowdog, I live out in the new garden area and usually vote at Jefferson elem. Where's the polling place out there?