News-Record.com

Don't they use sanitized needles and swab the arm before they inject the potion? A nice comfy way to go.

I've posted this before - but for Jan Herman's interest ... I'm against the death penalty because, in the words of the last guillotine operator (now retired), it's too easy on the perpetrator.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=829635

I've also heard studies that cite it's cheaper to hold a person in prison for 60 years than to pay for the appeals process mandated by a death sentence.

Thanks JDR, I'll look the link over later this morning.

Well, Kelly, I'm happy that the founding fathers of our country thought differently than you.

Your arguments seem to fall directly contrary to those prescribed in the Bill of Rights, namely the 8th Amendment.

Since you hold views antithetical to the document that is the blueprint of our great nation, you can be no less than a traitor to America.

*yes, it's hyperbole, but the core truth remains*

I'm not for the death penalty, but I certainly do not agree that it is the easy way out.

The simple act of execution aside, imagine living the rest of your life with the knowledge of when and how you are to die. Knowing each and every day you wake up that you are one day closer to that date. Imagine waking up that morning, and knowing that you are getting dressed for the last time, shaving for the last time and eating for the last time. We all will have a last day, but knowing when and how that is years in advance, I think, would be much more tortuous than anything.

And beside, if the death penalty were so attractive to the convicted, then why are there so many appeals from those trying to avoid it? If death is more desirable than life in prison, wouldn't the convicted be trying to get a death sentence, rather than avoid it?

Denzien,

Excellent points as usual. It's amazing to me how some of our neighbors will fight to the death over some of our constitutionally protected rights (witness the two-day string on guns this week), yet other aspects are not nearly so important. It's like to bill of rights is a menu and they get to choose which are iron-clad and which are irrelevant.

As I've said several times: Revenge has no place in the justice system. And that's what the death penalty is -- revenge. And in civilized society, the taking of a life (except in war or self-defense) is wrong, whether it is perpetrated by a career criminal who murders children, or whether it is done by the state. There is no gray area.

"If an individual is given a death sentence, then that is the punishment — death. I do not care if it is cruel or causes suffering."

If it were you or someone close to you I can guarantee you would change your mind real quick.

I'm almost certain that other states besides Nebraska have electric chairs as an option for execution. Don't have time to look it up.

Generally, I'm against the death penalty. I say generally cause I'm not sure how I'd feel about it if somebody was to murder my loved ones.

However, if they are gonna execute somebody, I could really care less HOW they do it. Hanging or by gunfire would probably be about the cheapest way to go. Unless they had to purchase special rope so as not to give the prisoner ropeburn or something.

I agree with Swanks that just facing your own death would be the worst part.

As far as the cost comparison, I don't really care about that either. If it is about justice, who cares if it costs a little more. My bet is the main reason for the higher cost of a death penalty is the appeals process.

I truly don't have a problem with the death penalty as much as I have a problem with the justice system in our country. If I felt everyone could get equal justice then I might not object as much to the death penalty.

I wouldnt see anyone as a traitor for wanting a convicted murder to die a painful death.

oh yeah, and if a convicted murder was a family member....I dont think i'd change that view just because they are family. i wouldnt want them living in my house either. or down the street from me or even knowing where i live. and I hope we wouldnt have the same last name.

I've held off on submitting a post on this issue because my opinions on it have never reached a firm conviction as to what is correct on either side of the fence.

The very first analytical study I was ever involved in took place while I was still an undergraduate at USF, and concerned the collection of data with the intent of determining the deterrent effect of various punishments upon recidivism rates among violent criminal offenders.

I was a very small cog in a very big wheel, and as such had only minimal influence in the conclusion formulating phase of the process.

Form my then youthful perspective however, some things became quickly obvious. In crimes of passion, defined as those initiated out of anger, rage, or other furious situational response, the threat of eventual execution had little or no influence upon the actions even of those who later expressed regret, and none whatsover upon the habitual or mulitple offender regardless of circumstance.

It still gives me chills to remember some of the glib rationalizations and justifications I heard for the actions of individuals who had raped, murdered, mutilated and tortured their victims.

I'm still nursing a nasty headache, so I'm going to avoid going into long winded explanation of the details in my opinion, but I hope the reader can see why I have some respect for both sides of the issue.

The possible implementation of a death penalty is rarely a deterrent, and therefore could easily be portrayed as nothing other than a vengeful processs that is often applied unequally by the courts.

On the other hand, having interviewed some of the perpetrators of such crimes I would feel no remorse or regret whatsoever upon the event of their deaths.

An executed prisoner cannot recidivate.

My family has had several members to be murdered and we have never taken the approach as some of you have. We strongly believe in the bible and also allows jesus to take control of the situation. We do not believe in the death penalty and remember the bible says Ye that judge will also be judged.

"I wouldnt see anyone as a traitor for wanting a convicted murder to die a painful death."

I see where you're coming from, but it's in our national charter, the backbone of our society, that that's not what we do.

Because we're better than that. Because we're better than the backward medieval people in other parts of the world. We, an elightened society, (a shining city on a hill, if you want go all Reaganesque with it) don't do that.

My personal belief: I am against the death penalty because I do not believe the state should be entitled to take a life. The obligation of the state to society is to remove the criminal so that they do not cause additional harm. Life in prison fulfills that goal.

I'm with you, Denzien. How can you call yourselves civilized when you rejoice at the death or pain of another no matter the circumstance.

When I seen those executed compared to many who committed more despicable crimes, I do not find our justice system to be working. When an alluent man in High Point who slowly poisoned his beautiful wife and the mother of two young children was able to plea bargain, I think no one should be executed.

I know it is wishful thinking, but wouldn't it be great if we could eliminate the death penalty simply by people not committing any more murders? There is so much about the death penalty that bothers me though. Sadistic repeat murderers like BTK and the Green River Killer get life imprisonment (BTK's murders occurred before the death penalty was reinstated in that state, and the Green River Killer worked out a deal by agreeing to help with the location of bodies). Yet, a pitiful mental deficient in Texas and a man in my county who seemed genuinely remorseful for his drunken act of passion get the death penalty. And let's not forget the list of people who have been released from death row because new evidence proved their innocence.

I'm also bothered by the use of victim impact statements during the penalty phase of murder trials. On the surface the practice may seem like a good idea, but the murder of a person of low social standing perhaps could result in a more lenient penalty. I just hate the idea that some murder victims' lives would be considered more valuable than others'. Also, you know in some cases that those who decide between the death penalty or life in prison cannot help but be swayed just a bit, albeit subconsciously, by the physical appearance of the murderer.

I also have empathy for the families of the murderer. Of course it can be argued that it is ultimately the murderer's fault for his family's suffering, but I'm sure those innocent folks have to endure exceptional torture waiting for an execution to take place.

I remember years and years ago when my mother was dying of cancer there was an upcoming execution in a neighboring state, and although I know there was no correlation between those two things, there was something that felt quite perverse and bothersome to me about a state executing a healthy person at a time when we were so painfully aware of how precious and fleeting life can be.

I know if one of my loved ones was murdered, I would probably be much more inclined on some gut level to want the murderer dead. I also cannot say I was bothered much at all when Timothy McVeigh or John Wayne Gacy were executed.

There are conflicting studies about whether the death penalty is truthfully a deterrent or not, but I think we would probably be a better society if we didn't resort to capital punishment -- or at least reserve it for the worst offenders like serial killers and terrorists like McVeigh. The letter writer's acceptance of cruel and painful punishment is certainly over the top, and I say that not out of sympathy for murderers, but because I think we are better people if we do not resort to our most primitive instincts.

Oh, but let me add that when I make this argument, I fully intend for "life imprisonment" to mean LIFE in prison.

Denz,
You said it all!
Thanks again.

I predict the anti-death penalty crowd will congregate, sporting candles and singing Kumbaya, while hopefully John Evander Couey is executed sometime down the road.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/10/national/main1788188.shtml

Yep, this monster raped and murdered a 9 year old girl, Jessica Lundsford. Actually he buried her alive. Just sit there for a minute and imagine the horror this child felt being buried alive after being kidnapped and raped. Think about it.......think about it.

Take a look at this beautiful child and think about it again:

http://www.annointed.net/Article802.html

She was someone's daughter, someone's friend, a 9 year old who had her whole life in front of her. Now she is dead, due to this worthless piece of human debris. The thought of this happening to my daughter brings an ice cold shiver to my body.

Sorry Howie, it ain't revenge, it's justice. If this m f**k*r commits such a crime, he deserves to die. Spin it with gray areas Howie, Kumbaya, whatever you want. Lucky him, he wont' be raped and buried alive and he will probably live another 20 years for the appeals process to take place. Jessica Lundsford never had a chance for an appeal. He can just pass away peacefully if the day ever comes.

My only problem with the death penalty is it takes too long. Remember Jessica Lundsford.

Algerian Fernand Meysonnier would disagree, Dan.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=829635

"After it's over, I [wash thoroughly] because I've touched a rotted soul. I've touched someone that has tortured children and who has raped victims and it's because of that I want to cleanse myself."

"Criminals [that commit] such heinous crimes against children ... I [realized that most victims families] resented the fact that the criminal were getting off so easy ... criminals should suffer more in jail than have the privilege of being executed ... it's too fast."

I am agianst the death penalty. But will I lose a whole lot of sleep if Couey gets executed? Certainly not.

My beliefs and my faith would make me unable to order the execution of another person. Be I the judge, a juror, warden or whatever. I do not think that I could do that. Therefore, I feel that if I am unable to do that, then it would be very hypocritical of me to expect others to do it. I know that others don't feel the way I do and would be perfectly happy, in their faith and beliefs, do it. I'm not judging them, but I feel that if I merely recuse myself, I am tacitly allowing others to "do the dirty work" so to speak.

Dan,

I'm not spinning anything. It's a principle of right and wrong, and it holds no ambiguity. To kill is wrong. Period. And the spin comes from you in this argument. You are the one bringing in the emotional argument, not me.

So before you decide what crowd I'm in this week, try to understand what I'm saying. I can't even bring myself to use my own daughter for the example because it sickens me so much, but if anything happened like this to any member of my family, I never said I wouldn't want the scumbag to die. In fact I think I'm on record as saying I'd take out the guy with my bear hands. HOWEVER, there is a reason I would not be allowed on the jury. The prosecution of justice should not include revenge. And the primal urge to kill is not justice. And all the other stuff about "imagine what the victim went through" or "it costs more to keep someone on death row" is the spin that's used to keep away from the base point.

Thanks for your point of view Howie. I respect it and understand it, I just don't agree. I woudn't expect Jessicas dad to be on the jury either btw.

"To kill is wrong. Period." I assume that applies to unborn children as well?

That's what truly amazes me. Some people will hold candlelight vigils for a sexual predator who murders a little girl, yet some of the same people have no problem with taking the lives of innocent unborn children.

I cannot speak for everyone on the unborn children thing, but I agree that their lives should not be taken. What we may disagree on is the point when they become "children". And this argument is filled with gray area.

And to turn your argument around, this is what truly amazes me. Your crowd (to borrow your term) will hold vigils for the preservation of life, but the death penalty gets some kind of exemption. I've never understood that.

BTW, I respect your opinion as well, but disagree 100%.

Regards,
HG

"The prosecution of justice should not include revenge. And the primal urge to kill is not justice."

Well said, Howie.

"Your crowd (to borrow your term) will hold vigils for the preservation of life, but the death penalty gets some kind of exemption. I've never understood that."

See comment above.

Ok, I'll splain it without the emotion, revenge factor, etc. Plain & simple, here 'tis. Some states in this country allow the death penalty as a form of punishment for certain crimes, including ours. As long as capital punishment is a legal option, I support it. I do consider the nature of the crime, for example I never thought the death penalty should have been an option in the first Andrea Yates trial.

This Couey guy on the other hand, he had a previous record of pedophilia and should have never been released in the first place. That is a HUGE failure of our justice system. He is a prime candidate for the death penalty IMO for the crimes he committed.

My "crowd" does support life, but yes I do make an "exemption" for people like Couey. He is human debris not deserving to live. I can hear it now, oooohhhhh Dan, but every life if precious, every life has meaning. Couey's life isn't precious and has no meaning. He is the epitome of evil.

I also like Jessica's law, which imposes a mandatory 25 year sentence on certain sex crimes on children 11 or younger (should be 17 and younger) and lifetime GPS tracking if they are ever released.

With all due respect Howie, there is no gray area for me with the life of an unborn child.

Take a look at this:

http://www.pregnancy.org/pregnancy/fetaldevelopment1.php#week3

Gender determined immediately upon conception. Heartbeat in the 5th week. It ain't a "glob of cells" that the pro-abortion, er. pro-choice folks say it is.

EVERY unborn child is innocent, no exception, and deserves to live.

Couey on the other hand is guilty, and deserves fullest punishment allowed by the law.

That my friend is the difference.

BTW, I'm glad you joined this blog, I enjoy your posts. We don't agree on some things, but you are always respectful and offer something more than insults and bombthrowing.

"Ok, I'll splain it without the emotion, revenge factor, etc....He is human debris not deserving to live."

Uh, Dan- think you've got a little contradiction going there.

You say he's not deserving to live. That's your opinion, and you are welcome to it. I personally do not believe that the State should be allowed to determine who lives and who dies. If the state can fulfill its obligation to its citizens (in this case by life in prison w/no parole), why should it endeavor to cross that line into killing?

One word: Revenge. And that's not the way to run an enlightened country.

Dan,
So let every unwanted fetus be born....but once its grown and commits a crime of your choosing, we should execute him/her.....

You certainly aren't making a logical argument for "LIFE".

There's another beef I have with the pro lifers or as Dan would say, "The pro life group". They say they are pro life, but they are REALLY just plain old pro birth. They then bitch about government assistance, crime, poverty and the like, but ignore studies that credit abortion for the lower crime rates of the past 30 years.

http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/DonohueLevittTheImpactOfLegalized2001.pdf

Sorry, but you are not pro life if you are for the death penalty or if you are for exceptions to abortion. That is why I choose the pro choice arena, because it lets those who believe one way, have it their way and it lets those who do not believe in abortion--they can choose to not have one.

Denz, bottom line, it the law allows capital punishment then it is the law and should be used where appropriate. How is that for no emotion?

DD. Every fetus is an INNOCENT human being and should be allowed to live. A guy like Couey is a GUILTY human being and the death penalty should be applied.

See the difference between innocent and guilty?

I'm sure you would like to see someone found innocent of robbing a bank released and someone found guilty incarcerated right? Same thing.

As for your argument about bitching about govt. assistance, etc. I think every human being should have the opportunity to be born, be educated, support themselves, and contribute to society, and pursue happiness. I don't care if they become a pro football player or a Wal-Mart greeter.

It is the govts. job to give us the RIGHT of the pursuit of happiness. It is not the govts. job to PROVIDE or GUARANTEE the pursuit of happiness.

I've seen the studies attributing abortion to a decrease in crime over 30 years. That is an interesting study, but you don't hear much about it as it is very un-PC against blacks and/or poor people.

I often ask this question to pro-abortion folks and have yet to receive an affirmative answer: Do you wish your mother had aborted you? If you say no, then why is it ok for someone else's mother to abort them?

"See the difference between innocent and guilty?"

I see it quite clearly. Answer me this: Has a conviction ever been overturned?

You can't overturn death.

Dan,
I may sound a bit like that neocon, but I think Denzien just "told your hole".

As to whether I wish my mother had terminated me, I would not have been aware of it, and therefore it is a moot point. Seems you like it both ways--pro death and pro life.

Best summed up by:

Main Entry: hypocrite
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: pretender
Synonyms: actor, attitudinizer, backslider*, bigot, bluffer, casuist, charlatan, cheat, con man, crook, deceiver, decoy, dissembler, dissimulator, fake, faker, four-flusher*, fraud, hook*, humbug, imposter, impostor, informer, lip server*, malingerer, masquerader, mountebank, pharisee, phony, playactor*, poser, pretender, quack*, sham, sharper, smoothie*, sophist, stool pigeon, swindler, trickster, two-face*, two-timer*, whited sepulcher, wolf
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.2.1)
Copyright © 2006 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
* = informal or slang