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... and, George Bush stole the 2000 presidential election,

... and, George Bush planned and executed the controlled demolition of the Twin Towers to have an excuse to invade Iraq,

... and, Saddham was really a nice guy who loved his fellow Iraqis,

... and, Hezbollah is just a group of brave freedom fighters defending their homeland and against Nazi Israeli aggression,

... and, Israel stole the peaceful Arabs land 50 years ago and they don't have the right to exist,

etc, etc., etc.

It's too bad that the lte writer can't get the no-spin truth from Al Jazeera everyday.

....and the only way to achieve freedom is thru violence. Not!

Since you post with intelligence on issues not related to Bush, I am amazed that you can still support that joker, ORR. You truly do seem to be "Bush-blind". So sad as a good mind is such a terrible thing to waste.

This Counterpoint writer's points need to be examined, regardless of one's feelings. Growth comes through pain sometimes. That pain can be from a self-examining perspective.

While I am not in total agreement with every statement this writer makes, I feel that those stated need careful examination. I need to learn more. That can only happen by examining differing viewpoints, especially those that are not in alignment with those I personally hold. Maybe each of us should do that!

Shalom

Yvonne,
I have given up wondering why some people, who demonstrate moderate to high intelligence, can still support the President.
Conservative? No, just look at his one veto.
Diplomacy? Nope. Haven't seen a thread of that.
Immigration? Nada. Rewards the line breakers.
Iraq War? That one speaks for itself. (laughable)

So what is it? It can't be his intellect, as he has admitted that he doesn't like to read and that he has limited intellectual curiosity.

He'll never get to Mount Rushmore, that's for sure.

This one is so full of BS it's hard to know where to start. I will only address a couple of the wroter's points.

"Democracy can't be delivered by the barrel of a gun." Bull. Sometime it's the only way. Think King George would've allowed the Founding Fathers to establish our country if they had just asked nicely?

"A lasting peace requires a "mutual" willingness to create safety and security for world citizens. Nothing overrides preservation of human life." I will agree, and at the same time point out that the key word is "mutual." The Israelis are fighting people whose sole purpose of unity is the destruction of Israel and all Jews. No mutual agreement there, unless the Israelis agree to their own extermination.

"The brutal and disparoportionate response of the Israeli government....." I am really tired of hearing this one. I'm sorry, but what would be an acceptable response to rockets being fired into your towns and cities? I believe the Israelis have been quite reserved in their response.

And finally, as for the commentors who can't see how our President can still have supporters, turn it around. I believe they are so bitter about losing two elections that they could never believe that President Bush is acting out of moral conviction or a sense of his duty to protect America. "Bush-blind?" That phrase could go either way.

This writer must have never studied history. Wonder how the heck she thinks this democracy this came about. It sure as wasn't sitting down with the Brits and having a cup of tea and singing songs from the old country. If I remember history correctly a war raged for 8 years and they were not years platting flowers in our hair and having tea parties. It was an all out shooting war. That, Ms Latham, is/was gun barrel diplomacy. So much for that argument.

More on history that the writer of the LTE evidently either forgot or never studied. Germany: I believe Germany could be called a democracy. Did it come about by sitting down in a biergarten and haveing a few rounds and singing some fine German drinking songs? Nope, it came about at the end of a BIG gun carried by the US and the GB.
Japan: Japan is a democracy today and it certainly didn't come to this stage by sitting in Tea House of the August Moon drinking saki. It came about at the end of a gun and two big explosions, 61 years ago this week.
I believe that I could go on with rather a lengthy list of countries who's democracy came about as result of "Gun barrel" diplomacy but it would probably do no good since the LTE has made up her mind that it won't work. This is evidently another one of those persons who has not/will not learn(ed) from history.

Democracy can come from the barrel of a gun. That gun, however, has to belong to those wanting democracy bad enough to use that gun. Democracy cannot be forced on others by us using our gun. I think that's been proven over and over again but nobody seems to be paying attention.

Anthony,
You are so right. We have been sold a bill of goods on more than one occasion by our leaders. "Vietnamization" was a word being bandied around during the late 1960's and early 1970's. It was supposed to mean the takeover of security by South vietnam of its own country. It is the same talk we are getting from GOP today about Iraq.

Unfortunately, when straight talkers like Murtha come out, the GOP labels them as wanting to "Cut and Run". I think going to the periphery, as Murtha advocates, could really free up our forces while allowing the Iraqis to see just how much they can do to stabilize their own country. If we need to, we could go back in. It makes much more sense than the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz plan that has been in place for the duration.

With our troops on the periphery, we could wield much more power with Iran, Syria, and Lebanon.

Well said, Anthony. I agree totally.

Anthony, did Germany want demoracy so bad that they rose up to use the gun to take it or was it others who brought democracy by the barrel of the gun? Did Japan want democracy bad enough to rise up and use a gun to achieve democracy or did others bring democracy by the barrel of the gun?
Perhaps you should read your history again Anthony then ask yourself what has been proven over and over again. Or perhaps you are like the LTE writer and won't/haven't learn(ed) anything from history.

Mrp, these countries STARTED wars. Iraq did not start this war. WE want them to have a US led democracy (after we found no WMD). Won't happen. HISTORY has shown that. Do you listen to the generals who are serving in Iraq or do you agree with the Bush administration that things are going well? The war with Iraq was planned by the neocons long before 911. Do you agree with that statement?

Carol, nothing has been proven in Iraq yet as to how Iraq will or will not turn out in the end. So your statement that HISTORY has shown that carries no weight. History has not been written on the subject, regardless to what many wish.
The last sentence Carol, with all due respect is simply bull. There is only speculation as to this theory. It is in the same class as the Twin Towers destruction was all a plan by the US to get us into war.

Mrp, what is your comment on this link?

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

I believe these comments were made to a different President, who's policies toward terrorism were basicaly nil. Perhaps I should say his publicly spoken policies were nil while his private comments were much different or perhaps indifferent depending on the day. At the time this was written you will find that many of those who now decry no WMD's etc were strong supporters of taking out Iraq before they got stronger. It was not only US intel that pointed to that fact as well as many other things occuring in Iraq at the time but other countries as well. The full story still has not been told on this and perhaps never will, at least not in our time. Was the intel flawed? There are facts that point to flaws and facts that point to truth within the reports. I can see both sides and will await the outcome, or as the subject was, what history has to say.

barrel of a gun "democracy and freedom"

Unfortunately the barrel of the gun has stopped many a quarrel. It seems to me that the guy with the biggest gun gets to determine what freedom and democracy are.

Our "mutual" weaponry systems are getting bigger, better and more effective. If history, which shows a history of war to settle differences, has any prophecy, it might be that in a few years the world may be Nuked to death.

Talking, negotiating, compromising, sharing may be preferable or this might be the last time we get to communicate with each other.