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The conversation continues.

So Oct. 16 is less arbitrary than Oct. 25 or December 31st, and Labor Day is less arbitrary than Aug. 25?

Reality is folks like Shirley Wright are not as right as they pretend.

Reality is 180 days of attendence is the "ridiculous, antiquated law." Note I said "attendence" vs. "days sent getting an education", 'cause there's a lot of wasted time in school.

BTW - my kid goes from 8:45 to 3:30, less time for lunch and with 50 minute hours. I want that schedule.

Really Shirley? You've had this burr in your saddle for 41 years? You really need to let this go. As JDR says, why is Dec. 31 more reasonable than Dec. 31, or the beginning of the school year, or any other date. If we changed the law as you request, that means that in 41 years, we'd see a letter from someone whose son was born on January 5 writing to say that the law is "antiquated" and should be changed to the Groundhog Day or the Vernal Equinox. Get over it. Same with the first day of school. Why does it matter if it starts 8/15, 8/25, or 9/5? Who is adversely affected?

Sorry. The second "Dec. 31" should have been "Oct. 16". Where is that coffee mug, I need a jolt?

I agree that it is just plain stupid to start school on a Friday.

However, I also agree about the kindergarden thing. What's the big deal about a child waiting a year to start? (Besides folks having to pay for another year of daycare?)

I think most of the folks who I've talked to that complain about this are mad cause they've got to pay for another year of daycare. I empathize with them but I think it's more important that your child be mature enough to start school than saving 9 months worth of daycare cost.

Yep, it's arbitrary and kid's maturity is not always tied to their age, but that's life.

Our daughter was born on the very day, October 16. I've heard NC is going to change this law to sometime in early Sept. but not until '08 so it won't affect her.

We have her enrolled in preschool this year. She is 3 now and most of the other kids are 4. People keep telling us we should hold her back a year from kindergarten, it's best for the child, she will be developmentally behind the others, etc. We really don't want to do this. Any ideas from parents or teachers on this? You out there Carol?

Agree with you Howie, I was wondering why a woman with a 45 year old son was really worrying about this issue. If that is her most pressing problem then life must have treated Shirley quite well.

Amen, Dan. If this is Shirley's biggest cross to bear, then she's led a charmed life. As for your daughter, I don't know what to tell you. I'd be inclined to hold her out, but it really depends on her. If she's emotionally advanced (maybe has older siblings, is gregarious, ahead of the curve on the emotional milestones) then let her go. My son will be four in early November, and if he were born three weeks earlier, we'd be making the same decision. In his case I'd advocate waiting. He's brilliant (at lease from my observation), and physically he's equal to kids a little older, but socially he's a bit immature. We're looking for another year of learning to interact a little better. Bottom line, it really depends on whether she's ready.

One final note to anyone who complains about the arbitrary date: last time I checked, no one forced the child's birthday on you at a certain time. Since the date's been 10/16 for at least 40 years, maybe you should have paused for a moment before you opened that last bottle of champagne on New Year's Eve. :-)

What do you do with them for a year Howie? Send them to pre-school again? Won't they get bored repeating the same thing?

I like your last sentence, but mid-October doesn't match up with New Years Eve intimacy. Our daughter was conceived on 02/02/02. We were snow skiing that weekend but doing other things at night :)

For our son, we knew this was the scenario, so we waited to start him in pre-school with 2 year-olds last year (2 days per week). This year it's 3 year-olds (3 days/wk). So he was the oldest in the class, as he'll likely be throughout his life. You just need to decide if you want her to be the oldest in class or the youngest. So if you opt to have her repeat, I guess it's better to do it now than when she's in second or third grade. If you have her repeat, maybe have her switch schools or at least teachers so it's not exactly the same script, but I'm just throwing out ideas. Any educators who would like to correct me, please feel free.

But if you think she'll do fine, then she most likely will. Definitely talk to her teachers after they've had her for a few months. Even if they're only with her three days a week from 9-1, they'll be able to gauge her maturity. There are success stories for kids on the borderline for both arguments, so don't listen to anecdotal advice. Either way, it's not a decision you're stuck with. If she gets to the end of Kindergarten after 2007-2008, there's no shame or harm in having her repeat. To summarize: ask her teachers.

Oh, and as for my math, I know I'm off a bit. I know pregnancy lasts 40 weeks. I looked at my calendar and 10/15 falls in the 41st week of the year, so I took a little poetic license. Somehow New Years Eve had more punch than Elvis Presley's or Millard Filmore's birthday (Jan. 8 and Jan. 7, respectively).

Funny stuff.

I know there is a minimum age before you can start kindergarten but is there a maximum?

Dan, I'm not going to give you advice but is your daughter's possible boredom the only reason you have for wanting to send her earlier rather than later?

My kids were both born during the Spring so I'm not really affected by the cut-off, but I just can't see the downside to holding them back a year. Cause I've got boys, I could definitely see the downside of sending them early.

Okay, I just thought of one down-side (from a parent's perspective). I turned 18 early in high school and was able to sign my own notes excusing my own absence and tardiness to school cause I was considered a legal adult. That got me in a little trouble and I ended up making up time at the end of the year.

Dan and others,

There was an EXCELLENT guest column in the High Point Enterprises 9/1 written by an M.D. why children should NOT start school so early. He mentioned several studies, some relating to children with ADD. Many of these children being put on stimulants later. Kindergarten used to just be a time for learning socialization skills, basic colors, numbers.. Now these children are constantly working (not playing), learning to read, etc. Forget nap times. There is constant pressure on the teachers to do evaluations. You can forget much time for arts and crafts too. There is a major difference in younger children not being able to sit still and focus on tasks at hand compared to a child who is a year older.

It seems a lot of parents are just trying to save on one year of daycare. In the long run they may pay later for child counselors, ritalin, etc.

One positive thing when a child is the older one in class, he is first to get his driver's license. Good for him but maybe not the "lucky" parent.

Dan,
Don't ever be afraid of public education based on the likes of "neoCON" or others who haven't had a child in school since Eisenhower was President!

Thanks Angel, Nit, & Howie. We are going to see how our girl does with pre-school and follow her teachers advice next Spring.

It's not a matter of paying for daycare, my wife works two days a week & her mom keeps the kids at that time.

Dan,

I wish you and your daughter luck. I'm betting with you and your wife's support, your daughter will excel regardless of when she starts.