News-Record.com

... think I'll throw my Uzi it the back seat and mow down the next couple dozen brown-skin hire'ers I see.

Wow. How do I keep this short and still make some semblance of offering a reasonable response?

The massive influx of "indocumentados" is neither the salvation, nor death knell of our society.

I am a firm, no exception believer that we need to know who is in our country, know them by their real name and be aware of any criminal history they may have.

We that as a given I also think that the LEGAL immigration process needs to be streamlined and made much more logically functional.

But I worry about the current situation. In an attempt to retain my limited knowledge of Spanish I regularly read Que Pasa, and many of the purported news articles and commentaries contained within it's pages I find to be quite unsettling.

There is no overlying concept of illegality presented there, but rather a precept of entitlement and "us against them" mentality.

In recent months they've attacked our government and society over not providing blanket healthcare and job training for illegal immigrants, granting driver's licenses without verifiable proof of identity, allowing uninspected goat meat to be sold in supermarkets, and of course not appreciating the fact that without them our national productivity would collapse into abject poverty.

One article addressing conflicts between the black and hispanic communities blamed it all on the inherent laziness of blacks and the resultant jealousy for the accomplishments of latinos.

There's a fine line between diversity and divisiveness, and the propogation of such attitudes within the hispanic media serves to promote the latter at the expense of the former.

Yes, there are many hard working, honest and generally law abiding illegal immigrants among us, but - and on this one point I feel the lte writer has touched upon a shred of truth - unless we can find a way to assimilate the latino cultural influences into our own while avoiding the creation of a resentful and obstinate subculture we are only setting the stage for even more future problems.

I apologize for the length of my post, but given my thoughts on the issue, this is really the condensed version.

"With that as a given"

Mediocre speller, horrible typist.

As many have said many times, the quickest way to stop this out of control entry of illegals into our country is to stop making it profitable for them and their employers. Stop all freebies period! No more free healthcare, no more subsidized housing, no more food vouchers (stamps), no more free translators, no more special considerations with regard to spanish speaking teachers, cops, medical personel, no more acceptance of 6-7 aliases, no more free anything. Stop pandering to this one specific group. (How many signs and documents do you see posted in French, Hungarian, Japanese, Chinese or________ fill in the blank? Stop allowing advocacy groups to bully, intimidate and threaten America and her citizens.

Start fining employers $10,000/illegal found working for them. Start imprisoning company excutives who knowingly enable illegals to enter our country.

However, although most average Americans do not support illegal immigration, nothing significant will be done about this problem until after GWB is out of the WH. First off, Bush does not listen to his constituents (Heck, he wouldn't even listen to his own dad's advice.) Secondly, imho, Bush and Foxx have an agreement; Foxx sells us oil and Bush turns a blind eye to illegals.

Best example of an oxymoron I've seen in a while, Jan:

"law abiding illegal immigrants"

Here's another solution I'll submit for comment:

Stop immigration, period. Do we really NEED any more people in this country from outside this country? Yes, there was a time in our history where it was probably beneficial to have settlers come in and settle the land. But is that time over? Don't we have enough diversity in American already?

LOL Nit,

That's why I threw in the word "generally" before using the term, the intended inference being that they don't all come here to become involved in felonious activities.

Many do, and with them I have an entirely different atitude.

jh & yvonne, you speak my mind!

Shalom

Sorry, James, left out again. :)

Jan,

I actually agree with you. Most of the illegal immigrants I've met are just here for a better life. What I've seen lately, however, is worrisome. There seems to be a growing feeling of entitlement among the hispanic community when there is absolutely no reason for it.

In my opinion, illegal aliens do not and should not have the same rights that folks here legally do.

I agree with Yvonne's post very much in this respect. I'll add that they should not be allowed to sue anyone in our court system.

Sorry, Yvonne, but it won't change just because GWB is out of the White House. BOTH parties are heavily courting the Hispanics because it translates into votes. Unless you can somehow prove the future, your statement is an assumption.

I might point out that, given recent rulings, judges like the one who ruled against Allentown, PA and groups like the Civil Liberties Union are a huge part of where the problem lies. Until people/groups like this are pressured into cooperating, illegals will continue to have the upper hand.

My pet peeve is when some try to turn it into a "racial" issue against either latinos or hispanics.

As I've said many times before, I have a close friend who immigrated here LEGALLY from Venezuela, and having been forced to jump through hoops for years in order to both maintain his residency and work towards citizenship his attitude about illegal immigrants is far less tolerant than my own.

Sure, some probably do hold a racial bias on this subject, but among my own circle of friends it is primarily a legality and common sense issue.

And I believe that holds true when projected upon the population at large.

hispanic lover

;)

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Whoever wrote those words on the Statue of Liberty apparently never met any of those "drunk-driving, law-disrespecting, law-suit filing, smugglers from that murderously corrupt nation" to our south. Come to think of it, we got that statue from the French, didn't we? And we know about them right? Curry-eatin', Middle Eastern onslaughters.

The sad things are the LTE's first name is 'Parris' (I guess being spelled differently than the French capital makes it only slightly less ironic) and that he/she is as racist as he/she contends people were in San Antonio when she lived there.

If he/she had stuck to an "illegal immigration" theme, I would have applauded her. But all the rest is just plain paranoid ignorance.

I agree with nitpickers idea, but with modification. "Stop immigration, period." I agree, but I want to do it retroactively. Everyone whose family wasn't here when the Declaration of Independence was signed, pack your bags. I am tenth generation US citizen (here since the 1630's), so I'd appreciate it if all of you who are so proud of your Irish/Italian/English/Slavic/Nordic /Germanic/Japanes/Chinese, etc. heritage would kindly get your stuff and get out of my country. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Now I can finally spread out. This is gonna be great. Need any help packing? give ole Howie a call.

Howie,

We'll have to dig up all your ancestors for DNA testing to confirm your claims, but sounds good to me!

;)

I'm really starting to like this idea. My wait in the DMV line will be non-existent. No more crowded movie theaters with all the incessant talking. Wendover at 5:00 will be a breeze. This is gonna be great.
I'll miss some of you.

why dont we send every 1 of the mexicans back to south america on trains? , 100 mexicans per box car , at 100 cars per train & 100 trains a day , at 100 miles per hour , (do the math) & how long will it take to get them out of the usa (at that rate) so americans can have there jobs back ?

End the Illegal part:

Punish the employers who hire illegals! Of course "W" doesn't want to alienate (pardon the pun) his base, so that will never happen. But it is the one surefire way to put an end to it and fast!

Howie,

I'm with you in theory, but I'm afraid that if you open the Pandora's box of retroactive citizenship the few of you that are left are going to end up paying one hell of a lot of back rent to the surviving Native American population.

As for my Dutch/German ancestry, we'll just relocate to Europe and amuse ourselves by building dikes and invading France.

Ya' gotta' have a hobby.

It's incredibly corny but I just can't resist.

The definition of a French Military School: a place where you dress in fancy clothes and spend four years learning how to say "I surrender" in German.

He said dikes. Huh huh huh huh. (Sorry, Beavis and Butthead flashback)

"why dont we send every 1 of the mexicans back to south america on trains?"

Maybe because they're not from South America, and have probably never been there. Mexico is in North America on my globe.

Howie,

"Mexico is in North America on my globe."

Mine too, but much of it sure does look to be a little farther north than it did a few years ago.

"it sure does look to be a little farther north than it did a few years ago."

Which brings up a point that I find interesting (though not many others do, since I've brought it up before and no one's ever responded that I recall). Why are we all of a sudden recognizing this situation as a crisis, even the one that challenges our way of life? If, as most accounts claim, the problem has been going on for over 30 years, why has it now become an issue that requires a swift, hastily thrown together solution (like millions for a 700 mile fence that won't be under construction for years). Is it just because Lou Dobbs went on his campaign on CNN? Please tell me that's not why we've all decided that 2006 is the year of the illegal immigrant.

Good point, Hugh. I have to add that not all Americans and legal immigrants respect our laws. I admit to going over the speed limit when I can.

Hugh,

I can only speak for myself on this one, but to me it's a cumulative thing that was exascerbated by a combination of some of the behaviors I saw demonstrated during the marches earlier this year and what I've been reading in Que Pasa.

I've read too much history to not be disturbed by the pattern I perceive.

This is one of those many areas where I'd really prefer to be wrong.

Ooops. I wrote "Hugh" - where I meant to write "Howie".

Temporary typesanity.

Howie,

I agree with janherman but I'd go a step further. Back in 1976, I can't remember more than one mexican kid at my school, and she was half black. (She was really fine too but that's beside the point).

The only job I can remember Mexican's doing then was picking produce. I don't remember them doing roadwork, yardwork, house construction, and even most of the housekeepers were poor black and white folks.

I think the sheer numbers of illegal aliens and their legal children hitting our public services is causing the uproar. Even if you say it's been going on for just 30 years, I'd say it is still incredible that the hispanic community now outnumbers the black community in this country.

That's just my take on it, though.

Howie,

I agree with JH. It's much like having a bad back. You deal with it for years hoping it will improve if you do things you can do on your own to make that happen . Then one day you stoop over and cannot stand back upright. Despite your best efforts, it has gotten much worse and you must have help to fix the problem.

Illegal immigration was the bad back of the southwestern states for years. I read of the problems CA was having over twenty years ago. Did it have anything to do with me? I didn't think so then. I thought it was their problem to deal with.

Today it impacts my life very much. It has now become my bad back and I cannot fix it by myself. There has to be a concerted, joint effort of the American people and legal immigrants working together, rowing the same boat in the same direction, to make any headway.

Anyway, that's my theory.

DD:

Once again, you seem to think that ONLY companies that support Bush hire illegals. I'm curious... do you have documented stats to back up this?

And what, exactly, do you all propose is the solution to end illegal immigration? Are you aware that as many as 40% of the illegal immigrants in this country came here legally and overstayed their visas?

We can spend millions on a fence, but that will not solve the problem of the millions who are already here that have been here for years.

It is not right for our government to benefit from the labor of so many people from so many countries (NOT JUST MEXICO) and then kick them out of a country they have come to call home.

But then again, the U.S. has used this as an effective technique in the past. When they realized the Native Americans were a "problem" they forced them on the Trail of Tears and then took care of thousands that remained with genocide.

When the slaves were freed many proposed a Back to Africa movement that would send them all "back where they came from." Does this phrase sound familiar?? Once the nation had benefitted for centuries from the free slave labor they wanted to get rid of the African Americans who demanded the rights that they "didn't deserve." Whites were afraid of the growing African American population, just as some of you have hinted that you are afraid of the growing Hispanic population.

This country cannot determine its laws based on fear. Illegal immigrants have broken the law, I agree. But in keeping them illegal, we have millions of people in this country and yet have no idea who they are. If a comprehensive immigration reform was enacted, at least we could identify the criminals, drug dealers, and drunks that you all are worried about and make sure that they are not allowed to benefit from working here illegally.

We need to be more aware of immigration before we react. Not all illegal immigrants are Mexican or Hispanic. Not all illegal immigrants are criminals. While they are taking jobs, obviously they are creating jobs as well. Over the past fifty years as immigration has gone up, unemployment rates have gone down.

We say that they are breaking the law, but the law needs to be changed. Keep in mind that women broke the law when they tried to vote and African Americans broke the law when they tried to integrate schools. Those laws were wrong and they needed to be changed. The same stands true for an immigration system that is obviously broken. This is not a Republican vs. Democrat, liberal vs. conservative issue. This should not be an emotional issue. This is an issue that should be dealt with with logic and logic alone.

And by logic I do not mean packing Mexicans into box cars and shipping them by train back to Mexico. Did no one stop to think that this is what was done to the Jews when they were "deported" on trains that rolled across Europe?

Whether we like it or not, immigrants are going to remain in the United States. We need a common sense reform that enables people to work, not an enforcement only solution based on fear and lies.

Very rational and compassionate commets, Adelita. Should give us all something to think about.

Adelita,

First off, it is apparent you have a stake in this illegal problem. Secondly, what has happened yesterday, the day before, a month ago, years ago or decades ago cannot be undone. We have to live for today, learn from yesterday and hope for tomorrow. So your arguments about what has happened that we have no control over are moot.

I think the reason we are reacting to the illegal issue so strongly today is because we did learn from yesterday. And we do not want the lessons learned yesterday to continue.

I personally have no objection to any legal immigration as long as they are self-sufficient and not sucking dry the American taxpayer. But I mightily object to the ones coming here (and yes, most are from Mexico) illegally, receiving government subsidized everything so they can afford to take low-paying jobs and then "demanding" their "rights". As someone mentioned earlier, they come here with a sense of entitlement and get militant when they don't get things they think they deserve.

As I have stated many times, I live in a town that is over 60% hispanic. I also work in the local hospital. American citizens cannot get the same help and do not have the same rights as the hispanic citizens. An example is: When an American citizen comes in for treatment, they must produce proof of identification. When a hispanic comes in they are allowed to use another person's insurance card and do not have to have any proof of who they are. In fact, they can use up to seven alaises. If an American citizen did that, they would be arrested for insurance fraud.

This is but one way in which there is a double standard and it's in favor of the illegal. Now how much sense does that make?

You can try to dress up, misrepresent, whatever illegal immigration but it is what it is-illegal.

Many of you have commented that you have no problem with immigrants that come here LEGALLY. In order to immigrate to the United States to work, one has very few options. An H-1B is the visa designed for workers with at least a college degree. This is capped at 65,000 people per year. The other option that people have to come here to work is in the agricultural industry as a guestworker. To give you an idea of the living conditions of a guestworker in North Carolina, why don't you take a look at the following link:
http://cds.aas.duke.edu/saf/migranthousing/pdf/Housing_Slideshow.pdf
This will give you an idea of the options that LEGAL immigrants have. Clearly, the current system is broken. People are clearly enraged at this lack of interest from our government and it is clear that we all want something to be done. My point is that deporting twelve million people is not a practical solution and would also have dire effects on our economy.

Adelita,

I went to your web site and want you to know immigrants are not the only ones living in those conditions. American citizens are also. Some of the places I went into when I did home health would make your skin crawl.

Illegals make a choice before they leave Mexico to cross into the US. Citizens born into and live in such poverty all their lives are a priority to me, not someone who chose that fate.

Your attitude of "it ain't going away so you may as well accept it" bothers me. I hear you saying we have a broken system but I also hear you justifying illegal occupation. What I say to you is there is no justification for millions of illegals making the choice to come here and expecting the US taxpayers to fix their situation. We need to take care of our own before we start accepting every needy person from south of the border.

Perhaps you are in a position to see all the billions of taxpayer dollars spent on illegals and choose to ignore it. I don't presume to know. However, I do know our economy cannot continue to sustain American born folks and illegals. That's the cold, hard truth.

BTW, for every study that says our economy would collapse if illegals left, I am sure I could find one stating how much of a drain they are on the economy. I, however, see with my own eyes the magnitude of the problem. So my opinions are not based on fear. They are based on a principle and that is, if people want to immigrate to the US, find a way to do it right. Don't expect or demand anything. You CHOSE to come here so be prepared to make concessions. Learn the language of the land and work for the respect of natural-born citizens.

Nothing comes easy for most of us so we resent the hell out of illegals coming here and walking all over us to get something they haven't earned.

Yvonne, I respect your knowledge of the hospital problems. I wonder who set the rules that allow illegals to not show proof and use someone else's insurance card. Do all hospitals use the same lax standards? If so, I think this is a problem the hospitals need to address.

Carol,

Yes, this is common practice; just ask anyone who is in a position to know. One of the translators at our facility became indignant recently when a nurse in my unit would not carry out the doctor's orders on a young hispanic woman whose name and birthdate did not match the one's on the orders. He threatened her with legal action. His story was that at UNC Hospitals, an alien was allowed thirteen different aliases.

When I checked in recently for an outpatient procedure, I was asked for picture ID before proceeding while in the next cubicle a hispanic could not provide any ID. I asked if he would be denied service because he could not provide a photo ID. The answer was no. So I then asked why bother to ask for picture ID from anyone if they could not enforce the lack of such. A dumb look and a shrug of the shoulders is all I got in response.

I have tried to express to you and everyone else how out of hand the illegal issue is. This is not just a hospital problem, Carol. Illegals receiving preferential treatment and special consideration is a national crisis. It is not confined to the healthcare industry.

Police cannot ask about the legal status of immigrants. That's why they did not arrest a bloody thousand or so in the demonstrations a few months back. How can it be a libility for the people who work for the law to ask about status?

While I am not trying to be a fear-mongerer, I am desperately trying to impress upon you and others who support illegals, how the law is on the side of the lawbreakers. This is insanity to me. I just do not know how else to say it.

Yvonne, I do not support illegals. I just haven't seen our government do anything about it. I just see people who deal directly with the situation who are upset. I know it must be frustrating for the police and all who have to try to uphold the law and do what is right.

I do question those who seem to think that ALL non-English speaking people are illegals and who seem to think ALL illegals are criminals out the bilk the system. Some are I know.

A friend who brings Mexicans in to work in the summer who are have legal working papers tells me that it doesn't take long to ruin them..American TV, too much to buy, too much to get for free, greeed. How sad that this is what Americanization seems to have become.

Please read today's story of the young illegal from Peru who was snagged by Homeland Security. That is one of the most horrible and scary stories I have read in a while.

The link provided by Adelita above, is horrifying! I saw similar pictures that came out of Gaffney South Carolina area where migrants are housed and used to pick peaches. If you missed it, here it is again:

http://cds.aas.duke.edu/saf/migranthousing/pdf/Housing_Slideshow.pdf

Oh, I'm sure neocon, Danny and Hugh will say this is due to "liberals".