News-Record.com

Please bulldoze the old school building as soon as possible. This is private property and Greensboro College has a schedule to keep.

Any beefs need to be directed at the City/County for selling the land in the first place.

Maybe I'm feeling a little cynical/sarcastic this election morning, but isn't the author of this letter dramatically overstating the appeal of Greensboro College football? "tailgating...traffic...parking problems..." Really? For Greensboro College football?

BTW, I agree with Hugh. This fight should have been fought long before now.

I guess I should have read the lte's first today. There's an article in the paper and it appears Earl Jones is leading the fight.

If you'd like to discuss that article or other stuff that isn't in the lte section, go to

http://nitpicked.blogspot.com/

Hugh, I agree completely. This neighborhood is filled with a bunch of racists who don't won't a WHITE school in their backyard. I can understand that, though. I wouldn't want A&T building in my backyard either.

I actually think that this would help property values. It might even give the neighborhood kids a place to play. Instead of fighting a losing battle, perhaps they should try to negotiate with Greensboro College to see if there isn't some common ground that could make them both winners.

If the zoning commission rezones this land I will be thorougly disgusted. It would smack of caving in to racists tactics considering they didn't give a damn about neighborhood protest when the Grasshoppers stadium was built.

There's an article on the front page about this today, this quote puts it into perspective for me:

"Residents repeatedly challenged Allen on Monday, asking why a "white" college would open a sports complex in a black neighborhood."

Allen is a Greensboro College official.

Warnersville folks have used the Price complex as their personal park since it was built. Now it's private property(again, take it up with the City/County) and since a "white" college want's to change uses, the community has issues. If A&T had bought the property to use for a sports complex and wanted to do the exact thing Greensboro College is wanting to do I don't think there would be a peep from the surrounding tennants and homeowners.

Why are black folks so openly hostile and racist toward anything white that does not directly benefit them? Do they not see their racism? Do they not understand that all racism is equally evil, none worse than others?

There is no hope for Greensboro so long as this attitude is prevelant, fostered, nutured, enabled and tolerated.

Greensboro's is in search of a "brand", or slogan to identify itself. I submit the following in complete sincerity and truthfulness:

"Greensboro, where black rasicm prospers".

Edit: rasicim=racism

Just for clarification, I only agreed with Hugh that the fight should have been waged before GC bought the school or befroe the zoning was changed. I do not necessarily believe that the residents of Warnersville are racists, or that things would be different if the college were predominantly black.

By my definition of "racism", it is not really possible for African-Americans to be racist. To me, the term "racism" not only means making distinctions between races, but also a sense of dominance over another race. I don't think you'd ever convince me that white people have been subservient to black people in this country.

From Dictionary.com: "rac‧ism  /ˈreɪsɪzəm/
–noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

How are the Warnersville residents attempting to be superior or rule others?

Just for the record: this season, Greensboro College played a grand total of five home games, none drawing more than a thousand people. And more than half its football players are African-American.
History continues to repeat itself: citizens objecting to change, without any ideas of their own, other than maintaining an impractical status quo.

"By my definition of "racism", it is not really possible for African-Americans to be racist."

Nice little bubble we can walk around in when we create word definitions to suit our own beliefs.

Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

"How are the Warnersville residents attempting to be superior or rule others?"

Well, they're trying to rule others by taking away Greensboro College's right to use their property as it is zoned and as they see fit. It could be argued that they are acting superior by questioning a white school in their neighborhood as if it would be okay for a black school to be in their neighborhood.

I'm all for honesty. If I found out tomorrow that A&T was going to build a football stadium behind my house and I knew that there were going to be a thousand black people hanging around my back yard every weekend, I wouldn't like it either. I imagine I'd have a hard time selling my home for what it is worth now. Racism may be bad but it's definitely real and it can effect you negatively whether or not you are a racist.

Ask Greensboro College about that. All they want to do is build a sports stadium. They found a lot of land that wasn't being used for anyting. However, because of the perception that they are all rich white folks, they are getting slapped with the backhand of racism.

Here's the FULL definition of racism from dictionary.com. Interesting that only the first part was included above. Notice line 3. I think that one pretty much catches all.

rac‧ism 

–noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races

Howie, my step grandmother was a racist. She died an old lady 30+ years ago. She didn't proclaim superiority, she just disliked black people. She didn't like them and it used to tick her off when I would play with the black kids down the road when I visited.

I get an unwanted feeling in certain areas of town, being white, I don't belong. Or when I hear Skip Alton speak and claim that every adverse situation that comes his way is because he's black, or when I hear the Nation of Islam folk call the white man the "devil". These people hate me because I'm white. That is racism by any definition and it's prospers in Greensboro through the black leadership.

Nitpicker, I omitted the "hatred or intolerance of another race or races" because I didn't think it was applicable. Also because the first definition in a dictionary is widely considered to be the preferred definition. Your opinion may differ, but that doesn't make me dishonest or deceptive, as your post hints.

Hugh's first definition also supports my opinion (which he apparently thinks I hold alone in my bubble -- maybe he thinks I wrote the dictionary). I didn't invent the idea that racism is tied to superiority, but thanks for giving me way more credit than I deserve.

Also, I think it's a dramatic stretch to say that Warnersville residents are trying to rule others. Right or wrong, they want their interests served. That is not the same thing as holding dominion over Greesnboro College.

"I get an unwanted feeling in certain areas of town, being white, I don't belong. Or when I hear Skip Alton speak and claim that every adverse situation that comes his way is because he's black, or when I hear the Nation of Islam folk call the white man the "devil". These people hate me because I'm white. That is racism by any definition and it's prospers in Greensboro through the black leadership."

What makes you think Skip Alston hates you, or that if you drive into a certain section of town, you are hated? Has Skip ever said he hates all white people? Does your analogy mean by extension that my black boss hates me? If he lives in that certain scetion you're talking about, I guess it does. No wonder I haven't been able to get him to laugh at my Amos 'n Andy records.

It's not "racism by any definition". I started this whole tangent by stating that I, along with some dictionary authors and a few other inhabitants of our bubble, believe that racism has a connotation of power. With the black community having little or no power over the white community, I don't think it's possible to have black racists, in general. It may be a semantic discussion -- sorry you're all getting your undies in a bunch over it.

I do believe it's possible to have prejudice both ways. Your assumption that black people hate you because you pass from West Market to East Market, to me demonstrates prejudice. Likewise, I think it's prejudice to assume that member of GC will be noisy and will tailgate, since that doesn't really fit their profile.

In a way I have the same bias towards words as Howie. He chooses to take the meaning that best validates his beliefs, as I do mine.

In my life I see more daily reality in the "hate" aspect of racism than I do the "superiority" aspect of racism and it flows from both whites and blacks.

I'd say Aryan nations and KKK meet the superiority defintion, and everyday greensboro citizens meet the hate aspect. Since the KKK and Ayrian nations have virtually no prescence on the daily lives of the citizenry, It seems to me the hate aspect of racism is the preferred attitude.

"With the black community having little or no power over the white community"

Quotas, Affirmative Action, jerrymandered voting districts nuetralized that a long time ago.

"Quotas, Affirmative Action, jerrymandered voting districts nuetralized that a long time ago."

These are the kinds of things I've heard from racists all my life.

Low blow, Howie.

I agree with Hugh that we tend to find what backs up our opinion and I can understand your reasoning about the preferred definition. My way of looking at it is that if it is in any part of the definition, then it has some validity, otherwise it would not be there. But I'd agree that many of the definitions list something about superiority.

I would also agree that it may be a case of semantics. Call it racism, prejudice, hate, perpetual state of being a victim, whatever. When race becomes a factor for making a decision or changes someone's actions, I think it is fairly evident. IMO, there are some serious racial issues involved with many of the folks involved in this issue. The fact that Earl Jones is leading the charge speaks volumes.

So whether or not Skip Alston qualifies as a racist, he's still a jerk and a bigot.

big·ot (bgt) Pronunciation Key
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Okay. So let's take the race issue out. Here you've got a neighborhood that doesn't want a stadium in their back yard. Greensboro College owns the land and bought it under the reasonable assumption that they'd be able to develop it as they wish. They've offered to work with the neighborhood and even alter their plans for the space. At no time has the neighborhood suggested that they would purchase the land from Greensboro College; they just want to tell them how they can use it.

We had the same issue when the Grasshoppers wanted to build their stadium. Neighbors protested about the noise and other problems that First Horizon stadium would bring to their neighborhood. The neighborhood lost.

My personal opinion is that an investment on that property would be a good thing. Remember, this is an area where the property sat vacant for years and nobody wanted anything to do with it.

I will bring race into it just this once. Historically, businesses have not shown much inclination to invest in heavily black areas. And folks like Skip Alston and Earl Jones say they are working to revitalize these areas. So, here you've got a group that's going to take an old run down building and turn it into a state of the art facility, and people are complaining?

I don't disagree that the GC stadium might be a good thing. And I've also said since 8:33 this morning that I agreed with Hugh about the ship having already sailed on this issue. Where I disagreed was with the use of the term "racism". By the definition you provide, "Bigot" seems more in line with what you and he have been suggesting.

BTW, how was what I said a low blow? What he wrote is precisely the kind of ideas I've heard from racists for decades when they justify their positions on issues. What line I cross with you when you read that sentence?

Oops. That should read "What line did I cross...?"

Howie is entitled to his bias just as anyone else is on this board.

I do think it's ad hominimish to pull the "that's what I've heard from racists my whole life", as if everyone who thinks that way is a racist.

So long as people want there to be racsim, it will exist as it's profitable both politcally and financially for those who wish use it to prosper themselves.

Howie,

The things I have heard from you is same ignorant, assinine, bull$#@& ramblings that I have been hearing from all the other limp-wristed, jack-ass pansies for years.

See what I did there? I never called you any of those things, but I certainly alluded to it. That's what made it a low blow. (By the way, this was for illustrious purposes only).

And, for the record, I see racism as a hatred or dislike of other races, not necessarily requiring an ability to oppress. If an ability to opress was needed, the Klan could no longer be considered racists, as they are insignificant these days.

Speaking of ad hominem: "So long as people want there to be raciwm, it will exist as it's profitable both politically and financially for those who wish use it to prosper themselves."

So the reason racism exists is because of the victims of it who use it for their personal gain? How insulting and demeaning.

I don't wish there to be racism, and I can find no way that I would profit from it politically or financially. Does that mean it goes away? I'm afraid it doesn't work that way.

I mean exactly what I said, Howie, but you have to use my interpretation of the meaning of racism to understand it. Using your interpretation(there can be no racism by blacks) I can understand why you would think it an Ad hominum.

I'm quite certain you do mean what you said, but that makes it no less preposterous. Using any definition of the term, to claim that racism is perpetuated by its victims is ridiculous.

Are there people who capitalize on, and take advantage of the racism that exists? Certainly. Are Jones and Alston the beneficiaries? Maybe. But to state that those who profit from racism are the only reason it perpetuates is patently absurd.

Here's the litmus test.
Take the LTE and wherever it says 'African-American' substitute 'white'.
Now, how would you judge this letter and its writer?

Howie, if you don't think there are blacks who prosper from crying racism then exploit the turmoil created to their material advantage we should end the conversation. I get tired of talking in circles.

Excellent idea, Pragmatist. Here's the letter with the substitutions, and why in the heck does race even enter into this debate in the first place. I don't remember race being in the debates over the downtown baseball stadium:

"I live in the historic Warnersville neighborhood, the oldest organized White community in Greensboro. Warnersville is the home of historic J.C. Price School, one of the city’s treasures. The school is the only link to our past after urban renewal in the 1960s demolished our entire community.

Again, we stand on the brink of devastation in the Warnersville community. Greensboro College purchased the J.C. Price complex several years ago and had the property rezoned under the premise that the property’s use would not change. Now it plans to demolish J.C. Price School to build a football stadium in our quiet neighborhood. This will be built within 50 to 150 feet of some residential homes.

Life as we have known it would never be the same with the invasion of Greensboro College into our community, bringing noise, bright lights, tailgating, traffic, litter, parking problems and additional infringements.

This is not the community for a sports complex by Greensboro College. The neighborhood does not welcome Greensboro College.

To destroy its treasure, J.C. Price School, and destroy the peace and quiet of this white community would be a travesty."

Hugh,

Did you read my posts at all? You wrote:
"Howie, if you don't think there are blacks who prosper from crying racism then exploit the turmoil created to their material advantage we should end the conversation. I get tired of talking in circles."

I wrote the following an hour earlier:
"Are there people who capitalize on, and take advantage of the racism that exists? Certainly."

So I agree that there are people (black, white, etc.) who prosper from racism. But that's not what you said. You said that they are the reason that racism continues to exist. How you cannot see how wrong you are would be frustrating if I didn't consider the source.

Howie,
Let me say this:
Hugh has bragged about the fact he supports
Vernon Robinson.
Need I say more?
********************
Hugh,
Got to hand it to Vern. One would NEVER know he is a Republican as he has removed all mention of that and is running for "Change". LOL!!

He spent the first 2/3 of his campaign aligning himself with "W" and now he's the voice of change! Hollywood can't make this kind of stuff up!

Hugh,
I will have to hand it to you, you are much deeper in thought than our friend Dan. I have grown to appreciate that you actually read. (Not just the Popular Mechanics) He and others just spout the talking points from The Limbaugh Letter, and think that is enough. By the way, Vernon does himself no favors by appearing in his own ads---he looks bloated and extremely medicated. The public expected the slim and trim Vernon of the still shots he featured the first 2/3 of his campaign.

Howie,

It makes it sound like you're saying that Skip and Earl just sit back and wait for someone to be a racist to them and then profit from it.

However, when they take the offensive and state that we don't want that white stadium in our black neighborhood, then it really isn't a case of a black person capitalizing on a white person's racism. It's the black person who's creating the separation and ill will towards their brother.

I'm not sure what the word is when you see racism where it doesn't exist? Profiting off artificial imagined racism?

Or maybe just plain telling a lie?

Nitpicker,

I said no such thing. How about this: "Are there people who embellish racism to seek personal and political reward? Certainly." Or: "Are there people who exploit the history of racism by trying to insert an anti-racist defense into otherwise non-racial issues? Certainly."

Either of those satisfy your assignment professor? Now one for you: are you agreeing with Hugh that racism only exists for the profit of those who claim to be against it?

My first thought is.... if people of this community care so much about this school, why didn't they get together and raise money to buy it?

Good point, Bunny. When the GCS was going to tear down the old Jamestown School, the community raised money, bought it and now has a beautiful, historical library for all to enjoy.

Hugh,
I know you believed in Vernon Robinson and worked hard for him. Sorry for your loss, but it was not YOUR fault. You can find solace in the fact Vernon was his own worst enemy. Most of us knew it, but you had to find out on your own. He would have been an embarrassment to our part of the country, and we should all join in and rejoice in his defeat. Again, Hugh, it was NOT any fault of yours that Vernon lost. You gave it your all!
God Bless you Hugh! :)

I think both sides are to blame. Did the city hold a hearing before selling a public property? If they did and no one in the community opposed the sale in strong enough force to halt it, then they deserve to loose it. The college obviously has not had a history of corporation or communication with the community, otherwise there would not be such devisive feelings on both sides. Not having a any real substantial connection to the community only heightens the drama of anything they do that inpacts the neighboorhood. If the residents seem bitter, it's probally because they feel disenfranchised like many minorities and poor people do. It's not purely a black vs. white thing. Unfortunatly it's usually blacks and the poor who loose during these episodes.

Deac,

I think you're jumping the gun on declaring Robinson the loser. As of the time you posted last night, he was not willing to concede defeat. (In fact he still may not have.) Despite a 2-to-1 advantage, he was going to wait until the board of elections counted all the votes. What a delusional, misguided moron. Any chance he'll drop out of our sight for a while? Maybe South Carolina could use a guy like him.

Howie G,
Vernon Robinson represents all the dispicable characteristics of "sleazy"election tactics. He was an Elmer Gantry type who actually hoodwinked a few folks to vote for him. He saw his high water mark on the City council of W-S.

I'm sure Dan, Hugh and some others will defend him..AGAIN, but to no avail. The people have spoken.

"The people have spoken" ...and loudly. I'm quite proud of Guilford Co.; 72% for Miller.

It appears some are having a little trouble staying on task! This letter and the posts that follow have nothing to do with Vernon Robinson.

Howie G,

I apologize for misunderstanding what you were trying to say. Your quotes do put it in better context. I simply wasn't reading close enough.

I would disagree that racism only exists to profit those who claim to disagree with it. I do think that it is perpetuated for that reason but I think there are many other underlying reasons that are so numerous that we couldn't list them here.

Overall, I think it was a pretty good discussion with some good points made by many here.

Thanks for bringing my reading comprehension problem to my attention. I really try to do better than that but I really missed the boat this time.

No worries. I'm giving you a free pass on this one, nitpicker. You usually appear to be fairly level-headed (so your response actually surprised me yesterday), so I won't hold one oversight against you.

Bunny!
Guess you are not a happy Camper today? Or are you just a disappointed Vernon Robinson supporter?

Howie G,
72% for Miller is fantastic! Maybe Vernon can go further South with his homophobic rants and run. He's already the winner in the category of "Don't have to live there to represent them" so it wouldn't be a stretch for him to run in South Georgia district. Gotta love the "apologists" running away or making excuses.
I woke up this morning with a bible verse in my head--"This is the day the lord hath made, rejoice and be glad in it!"
Heck, if the right wingers can selectively quote scripture, so can The Demon Deacon!