News-Record.com

"...how comforting it is to live in a place where the American Taliban is right around the corner."

Amen! If you want to see these American terrorists at work training our children, I strongly suggest you rent a copy of Jesus Camp. It is unbelievable! If you think Islamic Fundamentalism is the only thing to worry about, you may not feel the same after seeing this.

DD, it contains some footage of Ted Haggard, before his hypocrisy was revealed. I know you will love that! It helps to counteract the nausea you will feel while watching it.

The sodomites and their effort to make homosexuality mainstream continues...

They have come out of the woodwork since the election. What gives?

Hey Neo, I double dog dare you to go to a gay bar and pick out the biggest guy you can find and call him a Sodomite. Hell, I dare you to do it to the biggest lesbian you can find. I know a quite a few who could, no doubt, kick your punk ass from one side of Greensboro to the other. That won't happen though. You are all talk and everyone knows it.

Okay, now we’re starting to sound like the Muslims; “Accept my peaceful, unassuming, loving way of life or I’ll kill you”…

WAJ, that is the basic message that Constantine gave. That is how Christianity became THE religion of the Roman Empire.

neocon, I am glad that at least here people can discuss and dialogue this topic matter without fear and trepedation. I know of another newspaper (Lexington, NC) where people such as myself, Stevie D., Deacon, etc. would have priviledges revoked for speaking as we do. I know from experience.

So, I greatly appreciate the N & R for allowing an open dialogue where anyone can post without fear.

And yes, fundamentalist Christians are not the exact same thing (imho) as their Islamic counterparts. However, there are many similar traits that do not use the same means for the end.

Again, the NC BSC has only shown that they seek to be an "exlusive club," resemblent of the 1st Century Jewish Pharisees. I say let them go. It is not always easy to do so, yet that is what we will have to do.

Shalom

Temptation, in and of itself, is not a sin. Therefore, in my opinion, it isn't a question of someone choosing to be attracted to someone of the same sex. I don't think we're given the choice of who we are attracted to. I don't think most people would choose to be gay. I think the prevailing thought of the SBC is that the attraction itself is not a sin but the follow-up action is.

We may not be able to agree on whether homosexuality is or is not a sin but I think the whole choice debate can be misleading and confusing.

As far as the other types of sinners you mention, the church is full of them. I would agree that those folks should also not be leaders in the church. I have no clue as to why the SBC hasn't chosen to address them.

Stevie D,
Each of your posts were reviling. Aything of value to add or just more hate.

"American Taliban". "American terrorist" ! Bull crap. Equating fellow Americans with The Taliban or the more common venom spewed by the left.... Nazi is just disgusting.

We have no idea, we never will and I am glad of it.

Once a gain a lefty illustrates the Blvd of Tolerance is a one way street.

neocon,

if you get a chance would you please email me at trisha9714@hotmail.com.

Let the Baptists have their own beliefs.

If you think they are in error, allow them the common courtesy (and civil right) to wallow in their own ignorance in regards to their professed spiritual belief. I daresay that any proclomation made by them will have nary an affect upon my own life, unless I allow it to.

The comparison of these folks to the Taliban or Muslim extremists is laughable though. The intolerance I am seeing displayed towards the spiritual beliefs of the Baptists is no less than the intolerance the Bapists are being accused of having.

Except that most of those who are being intolerance of the basic religious freedoms of the Baptists seem to want to associate themselves with the uber-tolerant camp. That is the irony, to me.

Darryl,

You'd asked me in an earlier thread about the movie 'Bobby', a biopic on Robert Kennedy.

The movie stars Christian Slater, Anthony Hopkins, Sharon Stone, Laurence Fishburne, Demi Moore, Ashton Kutcher, Lindsay Lohan, Helen Hunt, William H Macy, Harry Belafonte, Elijah Woods and others.

It's written and directed by Emilio Estevez of all people.

Here's a good link:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061120/ap_en_mo/film_emilio_estevez

GREAT LTE!

Darryl,

I can understand why you are upset with everything Christian but get a hold of yourself man, Constantine died almost 2000 years ago. Let’s try and stay at least in the 20+ Century…

I waited until 1 pm for this?

Stevie D,
I can't wait for little ol' Dan to get back on here with his RUSH talking points. Seems an ABC news affiliate did a story on the accusations by conservatives about Pelosi's non union workers--they found that Pelosi paid them more and gave them more benefits than union workers at other vineyards! They also debunked the Right Wing myth that she wouldn't even allow the workers to form a union---by law, she can't have ANYTHING to do with organizing etc.
Seems like ol' Danny boy dug himself another "Dry Hole"!! LOL! Guess he's scared to come out and play since all of his media darlings are getting shown for what they really are....!LOL!
*************
As for neocon, I'd love to see him talk his drivel to a "Bull Queer" from Central Prison! LOL! WAJ is almost as funny with his warped view of the world. Sounds like WAJ was one of the grand poo-bahs over at the SBC!

Stevie D,
Here's another great link to a great commentary:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15976642/

I'm sure ol' Dan will avoid reading that one about one of his "Heroes". He's probably still smarting over the loss of his "BIG BOGEYMAN"! Nancy Pelosi, had been attacked by the right wing pundits and talk show demagogues for having what they claimed, "non union workers" on her vineyard. Turns out the entire story was nothing short of ...drumroll...F-A-L-S-E !! Gotta love the parrots..Dan, neocon, jcacbar, Bobby, etc.

Here's a clip just for neocon, WAJ, Nitpicker, and MICK:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6rSjrBhUIA&NR

________________
Stevie D,
These homophobes can't handle the truth, so I thought I'd give them "THEIR OWN MAN" regurgitatin their thoughts.....what a bunch of hypocrites!

And here's the humor involved with those who

"protesteth too much"!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4e42GDb2Zw&mode=related&search=

So, suddenly Nancy Pelosi has an opinion on the Southern Baptists? No? Wait a minute, DD is merely changing the subject?

For what reason? To try and bash someone who hasn't even posted in this thread?

Who, but DD could possibly post an attack on someone about who does and doesn't work on Nancy Pelosi's vineyards in a discussion about the Southern Baptists and their attitudes towards homosexuals?

You can't make this stuff up!

I have little opinion about Nancy Pelosi. I am completely unconcerned over who she hires and who she doesn't. I similarly have no idea why the DD is so obsessed with her and with Dan.

Swanks,
We've beaten the old "homophobic Baptists" to a pulp, so I wanted to put some grist in the mill for those who cannot come up with ANY more angles for defending the SBC. Dan has recently thrown up the "Bogeyman" he hears Rush Limbaugh talk about (read: Nancy Pelosi) and accused her of not hiring union labor. Seems his little charade was untrue all along.

As for you, "Swanks", tell polite society exactly what you mean by "Swank-a-lota-pus"! That ought to take out some of your pious swagger! :)

DD,

Sorry but my roots are in the Druid religion; why do you think I like President Bush so much...

I have a pious swagger now, do I? Is it because I think that the people ought to be able to dictate their own beliefs without having to get the DD, Stevie D, or Walt Gavin stamp of approval first?

Or perhaps it is because I dared to question why you would post such an assinine, rambling and completely off topic series of posts that seem to have no point other than to attack someone who has not posted here, on an issue that has not been raised.

As for my name, DD, if your memory weren't as shoddy as your ability to stay focused on the discussion at hand, you would recall that we have discussed this before. You asked me and I answered. You were unsatisfied with my answer, thinking that I was being less than forthcoming. But, regardless of what you think or want the answer and explanation to be, it is what it is. Take it or leave it.

DD, I figured you would have loved my moniker, as it is such a svelte name, and is carried so well by a punter/place kicker on a certain 10-2 football game playing for the ACC championship and a trip to the Orange Bowl tommorrow.

:)

OK actually watched the clips.

I am no fan or defender of Ted H. He screwed up and has paid quite a price. It ends with me there. I havent seen Jesus Camp just the above clip and few others here and there. But....

Thats's it?! What is it you see in either clip that scares or offends you so much? I saw zippo in JC that should give anyone pause. Some of it was a little over the top for my style but to each his own. As for the TH clip... That wasnt a whole lotta bashing goin on. There's worse in this very thread from Stevie D. Typical double standard crap.

The links were worthless to your point DD. If proving anything it was only how intolerant you are of everything Christian.

DD,
Hee hee! I guess you have seen Jesus Camp already. I swear I thought about you when I saw that scene you linked. I knew you would love that! BTW, what’s up with this Mick guy? I like arguing with conservatives but some sure are getting pissy since the elections. BTW, have you seen Ted Haggard’s boyfriend? His arms are the size of my legs and I ain’t small! I would like to see Neocon call a guy like that a sodomite.

Swanks,
I respect your opinion on that. But, I think if you watch Jesus Camp you will see that a comparison to the Taliban is not laughable at all. In fact, it’s quite disturbing. They are not the same, but there are reasonable comparisons. In my opinion, fundamentalists in America are simply too lazy and are not oppressed enough to act on their craziness. Their theology is equally disturbing but better social conditions here limit the frequency of it manifesting into terrorist acts. That’s the only difference I see.

Swanks, I haven't posted in three days and I see DD is still obsessed with me. This happens all the time, he brings me up multiple times in threads where I haven't posted, usually with a different subject from that of the LTE.

At first I considered it flattery, but obsession seems to fit the bill more accurately.

I tried to post this around 10 am when the website went down. It's still relevant so here goes. Stevie you worry me, you used to practice a good level of civility and still do sometimes, but it seems DD is rubbing off on you, hence your DD hee hee blather.

"With the justifiable furor over the global impact of Muslim extremists, how comforting it is to live in a place where the American Taliban is right around the corner."

"If you want to see these American terrorists at work training our children, I strongly suggest you rent a copy of Jesus Camp."

Talk about extremist, two extremist quotes in a row!! American Taliban? American terrorists? I have never corresponded with Walt before but Stevie I've never seen you make such radical statements.

Are American Christians flying planes into buildings teaching their children to blow themselves up in shopping malls?

Walt loses his credibility in his last statement. The Taliban, as everyone knows, is a brutal regime that forces women into burkas, doesn't allow them to leave home without a male to accompany them. I would imagine the Taliban wouldn't be too keen on gay rights parades.

Homosexuality in Islam is punishable by stoning to death, can you provide a link with info about Baptists stoning homosexuals pretty please?

State your case against Baptist theology all day long, but when you start making such asinine comparisons to Taliban and terrorists your arguments become reduced to drivel that lacks any credibility.

As always, I still see the SBC villified for it's stance on homosexuality, yet Islam gets a pass. Yvonne says Islam isn't prevalent in the South so it doesn't matter. DD says I'm "baiting an switching" in bringing up the comparison.

Well this letter mentions the Taliban, so no baiting and switching here.

Will one of you who villify the Baptists please admit that Muslims stoning gay Muslims to death is wrong? Can I hear it please?

Swanks "Or perhaps it is because I dared to question why you would post such an assinine, rambling and completely off topic series of posts that seem to have no point other than to attack someone who has not posted here, on an issue that has not been raised."

At least I'm not the only one who has noticed. This happens daily swanks.

Between a very busy week and this website continually screwing up, I have not had time to post much this week.

Welcome back Dan! I don't know about DD, but I am obsessed with you. That French you use makes me swoon every time! How do you say, “I just can’t quit you Dan.” in French? ;-)

Dan,

You know I have never claimed to be nice. I try to be moral and fair but I am not always nice. I work on it, like anyone should work on their weaknesses. But in this case, I stand by every word I said. In Jesus Camp, the camp director unapologetically compares what she is doing to what radicals do in the Middle East. She postulates that we must teach our kids to be warriors for Christ and admires how Islamic children are trained to die for God. She blatantly say's we need to train our kids to “lay down their lives for the Lord” as well.

Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols were part of the radical Christian Identity Movement. Ya know, Oklahoma? Was that not an act of terrorism? Paul Hill was a Christian fundamentalist pastor and he murdered a physician in cold blood for performing abortions. You may not like the comparison, but it is valid nonetheless.

As far as your moral indignation goes, you have said plenty of harsh things in here yourself. You are no pillar of civility all the time either. Save the moral outrage for someone who is not familiar with your posts. Where is your call for civility when Neocon calls people Sodomites?

Muslims stoning gay Muslims to death is wrong. Muslim oppression of women is wrong. Is there anything else I need to say to disarm your ridiculous and unsubstantiated claim of liberal hypocrisy on these issues?

Stevie, you are a beast, go get 'em. I have not watched the Jesus Camp. McVeigh & Nichols primarily had a beef with the govt. Now Rudolph did have a religious angle in bombing an abortion clinic, granted.

I'm not always a pillar of civility, I can get riled but enjoy conversation with most of you guys. It's just when I am called a "homophobe of the worst kind" and other BS I have to respond. I'm sure you can understand.

Glad you are the first one to admit that Muslims stoning gays is wrong. There is hope.

See you soon, gotta help get the kids to bed.

BTW, I'm glad you are obsessed with me Stevie, I'll take that as flattery. As for DD, I could go a month w/o posting and my name would still be mentioned daily. Not healthy. Adieu mon ami.

Adieu mon ami. Swoon like Gomez Adams.

I still believe that the LTTE writer gave some good discussion points. We do not have to agree about those. However, a degree of civility would be nice. As noted earlier, at another newspaper (see above), the people of conservative thought are a definite majority and cry when they opinions/posts get disagreed with. I am one who disagrees, not always though. However, more often than not. And then I am whinned about and reported for "nastiness" for posting disagreeing comments.

So please, let us keep this blog civil. This comment is coming from a "wounded" person who would like to contribute in a constructive way.

Now WAJ, I am not, "....pset with everything Christian...." That is far from truth and fact. How could it be so when I am a member of a Christian group and a Christian? WAJ, make sure the facts are accurate when making comments like that in the future.

For the record, I am pained and hurt by the action of the NC BSC. I have noted that on numerous occasions. And since I have invested my time, talents, and money into that organization; I feel that I have a right to speak of my displeasure about the move that has taken place.

Nit, thanks for the info on the RFK movie. Thanks for you too Nit. Due to events of the past 24 hours you have helped me to keep my faith in humanity and to remember a key proponent of my Quakerism; "That of God in everyone." I am appreciative to you and to our God.

Shalom

"McVeigh & Nichols primarily had a beef with the govt. Now Rudolph did have a religious angle in bombing an abortion clinic, granted."

Dan, I agree with your statement but McVeigh and Nichols did have a religious angle as well. The Christian Identity movement is relatively small but had a major influence on the citizen militia movement of the 90's. McVeigh thought he was doing God’s work. He thought he was protecting the U.S. from a Zionist Occupation Government or “ZOG”. He was even referred to his victims as “collateral damage”.

Mick,
'"American Taliban". "American terrorist" ! Bull crap. Equating fellow Americans with The Taliban or the more common venom spewed by the left.... Nazi is just disgusting.

We have no idea, we never will and I am glad of it.'

Never assume anything. I'm sure the Germans never saw the Holocaust coming until it was too late. It takes eternal vigilance and a courageous populace.

Alright, Stevie,

I admit it. I have enver watched Jesus Camp. Can't even get the link above to work.

To be honest, I have no desire whatsoever to watch the film. From the sounds of it, it would not be something that I would agree with. Just as I have no desire to watch "Birth of a Nation", read Mein Kampf, or peruse any other like literature.

Now, I can certainly see the educational value in watching and reading these things. You can expose yourself to them without condoning their viewpoint.

Anyway, what I understand the basis for a lot of these camps (don't know if Jesus Camp is one or not) is to "cure" homosexuals. That is disturbing to me. But, at the same time, it is also (I hope) voluntary. I haven't heard about anyone suggesting that gays be rounded up and force into a cure, killed, expelled from the country, etc. Such sugestions would, to me, rise to the Taliban level. The SBC's proclomation, however, falls well shy of this, in my opinion.

You can argue a slippery slope between the two, yes. And I can see your point. I would, however, counter with another slippery slope argument in the censoring of religion.

Ultimately, it really saddens me as to the plight of gays in our society. I am deeply saddened by Haggard. He has become the laughingstock and the posterboy for hypocrisy, but I feel so bad for him and for all those that are like him.

Gays in our society are very often made to feel like there is something deeply wrong with them. That they are harboring a terrible secret that they cannot tell their own family and friends, lest risk being ostracized. Often, they are.

Many gays make valiant efforts to not be gay. They can date opposite sex persons, marry them and start families. They learn to repress and sometimes despise themselves. Their true selves, that is. Sometimes (like with Hagard) this desire to prove to others and themselves of their heterosexuality goes so far as to cause them to go to the extreme.

Ultimately, however, they cannot be true to who they are. While many people see Ted Hagard, the great lying hypocrit, I see Ted Haggard, the flawed man who wasn't true to himself. If we aren't true to ourselves, then we will never be true to anything or anyone. If he we can't accept ourselves, then we will be living a lie. That is what he did. That, to me, was his crime. An inability to come to terms with who he is, and love the man that God created, not the man that his parents, his neighbors or society wishes God had created.

Not a single one of us is any less flawed than Haggard. But our flaws may lie in different areas. And be less overt.

I really feel deeply for the man and his family, and for all the other Haggards out there right now waging a war on themselves.

Be true to yourself. Trust that God created you, and He knew what He was doing.

Or, failing a belief in God, trust in one of the best quotes I have heard in my life. When asked what people should believe in, if not in God, Madeline Murray O'Hair (spelling?) replied in essence "Just educate yourself as well as you can, and you'll be alright." Always seek to learn and never turn away from the truth. Including the truth about yourself.

Was in Charlotte last night for "SPAMALOT" and boy was it great! It's basically a musical based on Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Much of the humor would be lost on Dan, Mick et al., but WAJ would have loved it, since he leans "Druid".!

Stevie D,
You are right on the money...AGAIN! Seems ol' Danny Boy can't come to grips with his lack of humor and lack of intellect--directly caused by NOT reading! ;)
I'm gonna rent Jesus Camp because it looks controversial. Contrary to one angry poster, above, I am not against all things Christian, just all things that fall into the "Hijacking of Christianity" by the narrow minded. Jesus was a liberal, plain and simple.
I shouldn't be too hard on ol' Dan, as he'll probably want to send his children to Jesus Camp to avoid having them read and become open minded!
:)
Yes Dan, I am obsessed with exposing your hypocrisy, but I am not medically proficient in performing your charisma transplant. I will leave that to others. BTW, we love your French!

Swanks, your post at 10:59 AM of today was exceptional.

You spoke what I have in other arenas for some 10 years. Due to not wanting to "continue" lying the the congregation that I pastored when I finally reconciled my faith and sexual identity, I resigned that pastorate. Due to my desire of not wanting to cause any division within that congregation I did not reveal the revelation that I had. I too could no longer lie to myself. It took a while longer in dealing with other people. Some still do not know, amazingly!

I still appreciate what you wrote. I too feel greatly for Ted Haggard. I know personally what it is to live a life similar to his. That is not "living," rather it is only existing. What a sad life that was.

Shalom

Great post, swanks. I often have the Bible School song, They Will Know we are Christians by our Love, come to mind when I read posts like yours. I too feel sorry for the Ted Haggards of the world. While living such a lie and saying all the awful things he said I wonder how he slept at night. Makes you wonder what kind of pressure he was under and from whom.

Dan,
Space #11-A is being evacuated as I write - 3 months behind on lot rent...interested?

DD: "Yes Dan, I am obsessed with exposing your hypocrisy,..."

Rather, you are obsessed with me period. Someone who mentions me 2-3 times in a thread where I haven't yet posted has an obsession.

I guess I'm still flattered that you think about me so often. Frankly I don't think of you at all until I read the same 'ol same 'ol bs on my screen.

That quote wasn't worthy of saving to the DD archives, please provide something better.

Neo, can't afford the lot rent, if I'm lucky I'll have this computer paid off by 2014.

C'mon Dan, neocon's giving you pearls here! He wants you in his trailer park!
****************
Swanks,your last post was truly a great one. Thanks for it.

The definition below is from th Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

Main Entry: hy·poc·ri·sy
Pronunciation: hi-'pä-kr&-sE also hI-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -sies
Etymology: Middle English ypocrisie, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin hypocrisis, from Greek hypokrisis act of playing a part on the stage, hypocrisy, from hypokrinesthai to answer, act on the stage, from hypo- + krinein to decide -- more at CERTAIN
1 : a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion
2 : an act or instance of hypocrisy

Hypocrisy means living a lie. So much energy gets sucked away trying to hide things from people, maybe even yourself. I'm not homosexual but I lived for a while trying to hide my mental illness, also highly stigmatized, even depression. I've had major depressive episodes in my life going back to age 5, and I also have dysthymia (chronic low-grade depression). I wonder if I have ADD, but that's never been diagnosed. This I can face up to and tell people right up front.

I'm living another lie right now myself: my house is a disaster area; we have bedbugs; and we can't replace our broken washer, dryer, refrigerator, or roof because the house is such a mess. That's something I have not shared with any friend or relative. I have some anonymity here, so I feel relatively safe. But it's horribly embarrassing and it's so bad that I don't know if we can fix it. We're both lazy.

But I never claim to anyone that I'm tne next Martha Stewart. I have a lot more sympathy for someone living a lie who doesn't pretend to be better than other people. We're all human and we all have things we'd like to hide.

Beadbaby,

I hope things will turn around in regards to your house. All we can do is take one day at a time and try to push ourselves to do our best.

I'm actually kinda glad that people hide some things about themselves. If people went around showing their true selves, I'd hate to be around.

As far as the advice Stevie gave out "Be true to yourself", that has limited applications. If I was true to myself, I'd be in prison right now. That's the truth. People aren't just naturally wonderful enough to always be true to themselves. :)

Stevie,
"whats up with this Mick guy". Maybe I tire of constant lefty bashing and pile ons or perhaps it is the constantly being referred to, connected or associated with: The Taliban, Seal Killers, McVeigh, Rudolph (that would be eric not the reindeer), Nazis (brown shirts, jack booted thugs, SS etc) homophobes, racists, mindless Rush zombies, etc. I"m Pissy?! Have you read your own posts? Geez Louise!

DD,
Wrong again as usual. Have seen Holy Grail uncountable times as well as Life of Brian and have seen each in a late night theater setting. Watched the show since the mid 70s. My ring tone on my cell is the "She's a witch" scene, own a large wooden badger, ask every landscaper I meet if his name happens to be Roger, deliver messages with bow and arrow, count as follows "1, 2, 5", know what a Gumby really is, cant keep a straight face in a cheese shop, know the words to the lumberjack and philospher songs, often answer with "Looks like a penguin" when asked "What's on TV", once purchased a dead parrot, sometimes scream "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition" at inappropriate times, try to use the phrase "huge... tracts of land" whenever possible, went looking for the Ministry of Silly Walks, introduce my friend Tim by saying "some call him.... Tim". Need I go on. And if you do not understand ALL of the above references then you sir are a pretender and need to take a walk through a nice, new abitoir with rotating blades. You mother was a hamster and your father smelt of eldeberries. Your constant stereotyping and elitists threads are far past getting old. What is it Jim Rome says? "Have a take and dont suck." In layman's terms that means ... add something to the conversation occasionally.

Rufus,
My point remains that we are SOOO FAAAARR removed from that kinda stuff that the inference is insulting to those who actually lived it. Also, it should be insulting to ANY AMERICAN with half a brain.

Rant complete and I'm ........... OOOT!
Mick

Beadbaby,

If you have experience in hiding mental illness, please pass some secrets on to DD. He obviously doesn't know how to hide his, and he needs to.

Nic Danger, the whole point is that I've stopped hiding my mental illness. I'm out of practice on that. As for DD, his posts don't look mentally ill. Smugness and namecalling in and of themselves don't constitute mental illness. That said, he does exhibit some immaturity. Many of his posts include the adult version of "You're a poopyhead." lol :-)