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When are people going to realize that prayer is NOT illegal in schools? An individual is free to offer prayers to his/her god(s) at any given time. What IS illegal, however, is when people are expected to join in a "religion-specific" prayer offered by one or more people for the group as a whole. This act forces the majority's religious beliefs upon the minority. The separation clause of the Constitution prohibits this. I know you're going to offer the argument that the dissenters can just opt out. Yes, this is true in theory, but it seldom works that way. Let's put it into a metaphor everyone can relate to. When you're driving on the interstate and everyone is whizzing past you even though you're doing the speed limit, which of these are you more likely to do: simply exit the highway and enter one more conducive to your speed or step on the gas and keep up with the flow of traffic? Ninety-nine percent of you would choose to conform to the flow of traffic, although it would probably make you feel at least a bit uncomfortable. This reaction applies in many situations, such as when someone is the lone Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc. in a room full of Christians and someone says "Let us pray." Or if you were the lone Christian in a room full of Jews, Muslims or Hindus. Hopefully this clears things up a bit for those of you who are convinced prayer in schools has been eliminated. It has not. Coerced prayer has.

I wholeheartedly agree with SouthBySouthwest. If you want to go back to the founders, North Carolina was one of the two original colonies to refuse to ratify the Constitution as originally written. It wasn't until the founders adopted the Bill of Rights, which starts with "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." North Carolineans should be proud of this heritage and not try to force religious beliefs down others' throats.

southbysouthwest,

i played high school football and quite frankly, no one stepped outside of the prayer circle. For the 4 years i was in football, no one did. Even the jewish guys were in it. It became more of a routine than a special moment before and after the game. I did it because everyone else did and i didnt see anyone act different. Its not expected that you will join the prayer, its blissfully assumed that you will join the prayer.

6string,
Your point is definitely taken. I believe that rote conditioning is more responsible for the prayer circle than any "spirituality" that may be proffered.
SouthbySouthwest,
You too are so right. I just hope the righties will quit acting as if prayer has been outlawed in school. Like many, I would never want some half baked SBC member leading a prayer for my children. Okay, I was a little redundant on the "half baked SBC member" comment.

I agree with SouthbySouthwest's interpretation of the law. I could not have said it better.

As far as the football prayers, I really could care less if they want to pray. I agree with others that it is often more of a thing of tradition than anything personal.

As far as nobody leaving the circle, I can see why you wouldn't. But nobody can force you to pray with sincerity to their God so I don't see much harm done really either way.

As a sidenote, I'm not much into formal public prayers. I believe prayers should be a personal thing between you and God. I'm not saying people can't pray together, but it's hard to imagine one person speaking the minds of a large group. On top of that, if you are a Christian, Jesus was pretty adament about the way you pray. Piousness and showiness were not something He favored.

I agree, Nit. As we have said, even among Christians our rituals and things we hold sacred are so different that for one to pray for a group would be difficult. A simple, "Thank you, God, for all our blessings. Let our actions please you" should work for everyone if a public prayer is used.

"As long as there are tests, there will be prayers in school." Well said. The people who pray the most before a test are probably the ones who didn't study for the test. What they are hoping for is divine inspiration or osmosmis.

Public (ritualistic) prayer? Let's ask Jesus...

Matthew 6:5-18 NKJV) "And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. {6} "But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. {7} "And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.

Long time no see progressive! WB!

As for prayer being taken out of or "illegal" in school is a load of BS that I have spoke against for 15-20 years! The Supreme Court ruling on this matter noted that "public" prayers could no longer be lead by School teachers, staff, administrators. Otherwise, a prayer is still allowed. The only difference is in who leads in a "public" prayer.

10-15 years ago, the Religion Editor of the Charlotte Observer did a good satirical column on re-establishing teacher, etc. led prayer in school. I wish I could find my copy of it. Suffice it to say, were that satire to become real, there would be some extremely upset Christians!

I agree with some of the above people who noted that in athletic environments, these prayers are more out of routine/tradition than spirituality. Personally, I would rather it not be done on that accord. To me, that gives a false impression of faith and that is harmful, imho.

Rather, if some of the players of a team choose to have a moment of prayer among themselves, that is fine. However, I am adamant that NO COACH lead a team in a prayer. To me, this is a violation of the Court ruling. However, those battles are selective chosen when considering court actions.

And then there are those coaches who do this to only antagonize. I personally know some who do. This too gives faith a bad reputation. We need to stop that whenever encountered. At the very least, it needs to be addressed!

Shalom

if you saw me taking a knee with my head down on the football field, i wasnt praying. I was exhausted.