News-Record.com

Praise be to Allah.

Sam, a lot of Americans harbor anger over militant Islam's threats against this country. Personally I am offended by Islam's quest to have Sharia law implemented in sovereign nations.

You'll gain more friends by condemning terrorist and hateful actions of radical Islamists and renouncing the efforts by those folks to implement Sharia law in free nations than you will by playing the race card, that is unless Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton give you permission.

Hugh is absolutely correct. Sam if you want to become active, then address the radical elements in your faith. Single them out for their tendancy towards violence. Remember that Radical Islam is to your faith as the KKK is to Christianity.

Well intentioned people wanting to take the first steps to "become active" scare me without guidance and logic. Even Osama bin Laden started out with a protest... Keep your "active stance" non-violent and you will achieve more than you could ever imagine!

"My father, a chairman at N.C. A&T State University, has always inspired me to be active when I need to. This is the first step."

What happens next?

"You'll gain more friends by condemning terrorist and hateful actions of radical Islamists and renouncing the efforts by those folks to implement Sharia law in free nations than you will by playing the race card,"

So he's got your "friendship" then, right?

Dear Sam,
I wish to commend you for speaking out about your feelings and beliefs. I am sorry that someone like yourself, who has nothing to do with the actions of terrorists, has been made to feel the anger that should only be directed at them. I feel that it is pointless and inflammatory to speak to a whole culture in a derogatory manner simply because one is upset about the actions of some individuals who claim to espouse that culture. As another writer pointed out, this would be like equating the whole of Christianity to the KKK. Either comparison is simply untrue. How would a Christian feel viewing a bumper sticker that implied he was a racist because the KKK had said that is what Christians were? This paper would recieve several thousand letters about that!
One of the other letters here advised you to "keep you active stance non-violent". That is exactly what you have done here. You are opening a conversation, and that is a very admirable first step. I join you in it. If only we could all do that, I think we would find that the vast majority of us are people of good will, seeking only to live and let live. We are polarized by the vocal, angry, violent few among us. I am glad that the others here who have responded to you care enough about this issue to join the conversation too. By the way, I am a white female from a non-deniminational Christian backround. And lest anyone should think me a wide-eyed optimist, I am a psychiatric nurse, so believe me when I say I am familiar with the vagaries of human nature and conduct. I firmly believe that they only way to overcome injustice and pain is to refrain from responding in anger and creating more injustice. And that is very, very hard to do. Yet it is our only way out of the cycle.
Good luck to you and yours. Know that many, many people here are not represented by that offensive bumper sticker. It offends us also.
Tracy C.

denizen, I'm real easy to get along with and seek friends who accept personal responsibility for their lives. I have no problem hanging with Sam so long as he shares my offense at Sharia Law in free nations and condemns Islamic fundamental terrorists.

I can assure you though he's not gonna like my BBQ or my kids dog, but that's his problem, not mine.

Sam, This letter was a very bad mistake, or very poorly written if you want the support of reasonable people. Listen to those who speak above because their advice is good. We Americans who take our Constitution and our right to free speech very seriously were quite turned off by the Muslim community here in Greensboro making a fuss over silly cartoons and “demanding” an apology and “demanding” we Americans change our beliefs and our laws to accommodate Muslim laws. Some of the racist remarks you have heard probably stemmed from that episode of intolerance and bigotry coming from Muslims who have migrated to America largely in order to have the freedoms that they did not have in their mother countries. Think about this, would you have been permitted to write a letter advocating the right to free speech in your home country?

Even if the free speech is hurtful and ugly it is still protected for YOU and for everyone else in America. I, and most Americans don't like racist and bigoted speech, but I MUST defend the right of those to say and write what they want. If we take their right to free speech away from them no matter how offensive it is, then Sam we take the right to my and your free speech away. If you want support from Americans then speak out not about the few bigoted remarks you hear in this country, but about the murders of innocent people taking place on a daily basis in Muslim countries. This is where your activism should be focused. But this is where the same Muslims who tried to stage a riot in Greensboro over a few silly words and pictures in a newspaper in the name of their religion, but have remained mute to murder and mayhem done in the name of their religion have brought upon themselves the anger and disgust of so many Americans. I am sorry about feeling this anger towards conservative Muslims for saying nothing to condeme murder in the name of their religion, but I am angry. Especially so when one of you condemn silly words spoken by a few crude and ignorant Americans.

Where on earth did this lie come from?

From what I've read, it's coming from the radical Islamic terrorists who are telling their trainees that as a way of inciting them towards violence towards infidels.

Biochemistry, huh? Guess you've learned all kinds of ways to blow stuff up. How ironic considering the subject at hand.

I understand that racism is painful. It's tough in any situation where you are judged unfairly based on a stereotype. You can only control your own actions. Don't let what others do fill your heart with anger.

"Don't let what others do fill your heart with anger."

Useful advice, nitpicker. I wonder if anyone posting here will see it.

Freedom of speech is what it is, Sam. Regretably, some abuse it. I am offended by such statements, as well.

Having said that, as a Muslim and the son of scholar, I find your line "...where on earth did this lie, 'If a Muslim kills a bunch of people then he will go to heaven and have 1,000 virgins,' come from?" ingenuine.

Surely you must know that "complete nonsense" is ascribed to The Prophet (PBUH) in Haddith 2562:

"The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby."

"Some of the racist remarks you have heard probably stemmed from that episode of intolerance and bigotry coming from Muslims"

That's right. Two wrongs make one right. You betcha.

Offensive bumper stickers, T shirts, etc are the somewhat unfortunate side of free speech. If there is any consolation here it is that bumper stickers and Ts pretty much offend across the board as no one and no "thing" is safe.

So is the "72 Virgin" thing right or not?

Hugh:

What's wrong with Sharia law implemented in sovereign nations? Seriously! If "the people" want it .. why not?

Mick - strap on a vest-bomb, jump into a croud of Shi'ite's going to market, shout "ALLAH" as you pull the cord ... then get back to us on the 72 virgin thing.

Just kidding

James, how would you like it if your son converted to Islam, moved to the Sharia law side of town, married, raised kids and one of your grandkids stole something and lost his hand as punishment? Or maybe your Daughter In Law had an affair so she was stoned to death in front of your grandkids?

Theocratic law is very dangerous.

Hugh:

You wanna read something interesting?

Here's the "Original" Constitution for New
IRAQ, written when Chalabi In Charge was still the plan .. it starts:

Chapter I
The Republic of Iraq Definition

Article 1
The Republic of Iraq Form

The Republic of Iraq is a parliamentary, sovereign and democratic republic. All entities of the Republic of Iraq must yield to these principles.

This Constitution is the supreme law of the Republic of Iraq; it is directly binding on all Republic of Iraq authority. The general rules of public international law constitute an integral, inviolable part of the national law.

Article 2
The Republic of Iraq Citizens and Language

Citizens of the Republic of Iraq are all humans who are children of a citizen of the Republic of Iraq, who are born in the Territory of the Republic of Iraq, or who are naturalized.
The official language in the Republic of Iraq is the Arabic Language. The Kurdish language or any other language shall be the official language besides the Arabic language in a region where ever decided by the people of the region.

Article 3
The Republic of Iraq Symbols, Motto & Capital

The Republic of Iraq has the National Colors, Flag, Seal, and the National Anthem.
The Republic of Iraq Motto is "Liberty, Equality, Justice and Solidarity."
The capital of the Republic of Iraq is Baghdad.

===

... and here's the current one - the one we are sending American soldiers in to uphold.

THE PREAMBLE
In the name of God, the most merciful, the most compassionate
We have honored the sons of Adam
We are the people of the land between two rivers, the homeland of the apostles and prophets, abode of the virtuous imams, pioneers of civilization, crafters of writing and cradle of numeration. Upon our land the first law made by man was passed, the most ancient just pact for homelands policy was inscribed, and upon our soil, companions of the Prophet and saints prayed, philosophers and scientists theorized and writers and poets excelled.
Acknowledging God’s right over us, and in fulfillment of the call of our homeland and citizens, and in response to the call of our religious and national leaderships and the determination of our great (religious) authorities and of our leaders and reformers, and in the midst of an international support from our friends and those who love us, marched for the first time in our history toward the ballot boxes by the millions, men and women, young and old, on the thirtieth of January two thousand and five, invoking the pains of sectarian oppression sufferings inflicted by the autocratic clique and inspired by the tragedies of Iraq’s martyrs, Shiite and Sunni, Arabs and Kurds and Turkmen and from all the other components of the people and recollecting the darkness of the ravage of the holy cities and the South in the Sha’abaniyya uprising and burnt by the flames of grief of the mass graves, the marshes, Al-Dujail and others and articulating the sufferings of racial oppression in the massacres of Halabcha, Barzan, Anfal and the Fayli Kurds and inspired by the ordeals of the Turkmen in Basheer and as is the case in the remaining areas of Iraq where the people of the west suffered from the assassinations of their leaders, symbols and elderly and from the displacement of their skilled individuals and from the drying out of their cultural and intellectual wells, so we sought hand in hand and shoulder to shoulder to create our new Iraq, the Iraq of the future free from sectarianism, racism, locality complex, discrimination and exclusion.

Made in the USA:

http://iraqconstitution.freeservers.com/proposal.html

What we are Fighting For:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9719734/

What the G-men say about it:

http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/accomplishments/constitutionfaq.html#q2 .. including:

"Islam is the official religion of the state and is a basic source of legislation .. "No law can be passed that contradicts the undisputed rules of Islam."

With the interesting and arguable contradicting caveat "This constitution guarantees .. the full religious rights for all individuals and the freedom of creed and religious practices."

So to paraphrase Henry Ford's Black Car ... you can have any color you want, as long as color you want is Islam.

Welcome to the land of the offended . . . towelhead.

... and I really don't have a problem with "a people chosen soveriegn Islamic country" ... but I'll bet 2/3'rds of Americans are unaware that's the "democracy" we're establishing.

The jerk with the minivan legally has the right to his bumper sticker. Mr. Hamoush legally has the right to object to it.

I also agree with Hugh that theocracies are dangerous, whether the state religion is Islam, Judaism, or Christianity of some flavor. I don't think any religion (or atheism, for that matter) should be over any other in a government, whether the majority supports it or not.

That said, I dislike judging everyone in a group by the actions of a few. Many, if not most, of the posters here are judging Mr. Hamoush or asking him to defend the actions of other people of his religion. Why? As far as I know, Mr. Hamoush has done nothing wrong or offensive. Why should he have to defend himself against criticism against Muslims in other countries or Muslim terrorists? That's like asking a fundamentalist Christian to defend the actions of Timothy McVeigh or Eric Robert Rudolph.

It's better not to hate in the first place. However, if you must hate, hate a person for what that person actually did, not something someone thousands of miles away did or said.

Hugh:

Steal something and lose your hand as punishment ... sounds like the Law and Order rhetoric we read about in this blog - ok, taken to an extreme, but to probably quote someone -

"What do I have to worry about, if I do not steal, I keep my hand! ... specifically it was .. "Who cares if they listen (illegally, as they now concede) in to my conversations, all they'llhear is apple pie recipes".

Am I missing something?

You're over my head JDR. If Sharia is fine with you then go for it. If it ever becomes the law here I'll be one of the other millions exercising our 2A rights to preserve what's left of our Liberty.

Hugh ...this is simple.

America has chosen to go the Judeo-Christian route - with many laws aligned with the Jesus and his forefathers.

If another country chooses to align with a different set of forefathers .. why is that not an equally valid path and system?

... the real point being .. read the Iraq constitution ... the US Military is - at this very minute - fighting and dieing to establish the very same "Laws of God" you are going to exercise your Right to Bear arms top keep away.

Hello -- what am I missing - tell me this is not a screwed up mess. Remind us who you voted for ang why .. as I recall it was something like "At least GWB had balls .. " ... yea - but no clue as to what he was really doing. Jesus Lord what a situation.

JDR, first of all thank-you for simplifying your reply. You have a tendency to post multiple replies of fragmented continuity along with 5000 links and a mile of cutnpaste, which I don't have the time to put together and often ignore for that very reason.

I'm not following a thread hijack about the reasons of or what's going on in Iraq.

There's no comparison between Theocratic Sharia Law and American law, no matter how much religious spin you want to apply to it.

Beadbaby:

To continue my rant .. you "don't think any religion (or atheism, for that matter) should be over any other in a government, whether the majority supports it or not."

.. but deliberate separation is an American and maybe Western thing .. it is certainly NOT not an Islamic thing, where religion IS government and government IS religion - innerconnected and inseparable.

This is a MAJOR division in how we think vs. how they thing - and again - a point not well considered after Sept 12th 2001.

Nor is it an isolated culture thing. Isolated cultures - like what most of the world was before - say the middle ages in Europe and probably the 1850's for the rest of the world .. WAS religion = government. For example, in 800 AD, those in Rome better be catholic, baby.

Well it seems i have started the argument!

soo here goes

i would like to thank everyone for puting the words into it and to taking your own time in reading this!

Now to the main points:

Hugh: I was born here, live in Kuwait for a few years, i know my fair share of "society differences" and this letter (whatever you want to call it) has been directed to RACIST INDIVIDUALS. I HIGHLY oppose the actions that the muslim people in the middle east have endured. in fact, i believe that there are other ways of resolving issues. (i have nothing against dogs by the way, i actually like them). but im not here to make friendships.

im here to get MY voice out there, i think (as a college student) we should be the ones having our voice heard. in reality we are the future, and as people we are the ones who should be telling how things go. Yes i do realize that there are radicals out there that cant handle doing things alone. Freedom speech is true, as long as it does no offense to anyone else. In my defense my letter was in no way out there to "hurt anyones feelings". i honestly care less what people think of me. Im out there for me, i dont want to be stepped on and for people to feel sorry that i have heard racist remarks. i want people to know that things should be changed.

you also asked "waht happens next" wel if you read what i said correctly above. first we need to be educated on the matter, then we need to fight for what we believe in (yes in a non-violent way) Violence never accomplishes anything and for that i am highly against it.

NOW i do hate the fact that the islamic terrorist are out there putting a bad word on the Muslim people. i think yes they should be stopped.

The terrorist are the ones telling lies to their "victims" about the 72 virgins, Islam is a religion of peace, and in no way shape or form (in my opinion) should violence be put into any religion.

i'm not angry with annything, i'm more tired. tired of hearing the lies from people and automatically believing them, the difference in that message on the minivan, is that it was directed to the Muslim nation, NOT the terrorist.

Nitpick: well your statement is just to easy! Im actualy studying pharmacology so i can get into medicene. so you know int he future when ur old and dying I will be the one coming up with your drugs. not blowing stuff up. but i do like your line "dont let what others do fill you with rage" and i really do appreciate it, i will take that into account in the future.

BrendaBee: no it wasnt a mistake writing this, maybe you shouldnt read it:) i can say what i want when i want (according to your freedom of speech) in no way was anyhting i said putting the american people down. just the few oblivious ones out there.

TracyC: thank you for understanding what i was actually trying to get out there!

no in closing, sorry it took me all day to get back, i have been in classes all day. Now i want to get my voice out there to prove that as a college student, i do have a voice, and it should be heard, no anger, no violence, just a voice (that may sound sarcastic at times).

thanks everyone!

Hugh - I 50% agree with your last post:

Agree: I post multiple replies of fragmented continuity along with 5000 links and a mile of cut-n-paste. My bad.

Dis-agree: There is NO comparison between Theocratic Sharia Law and American law .. they are VERY Different - see my post to Bead Baby.

How did Sharia Law come into this conversation? Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with blogs going in different directions. But, it seems like you guys are getting super-paranoid. If you lived in France, I think it would be a more reasonable concern. The Muslim minority there is going too far, imo. If you live in the US, I don’t think it’s a big issue. Take a valium and chill out guys. I don't think Sharia Law will be implemented here any time soon.

Hugh - one more thing - if you don't have the time and often ignore my multiply fragmented cut-n-paste continuity with 5000 links ... you're missing out on some useful stuff!

(Just busting on ya)

As one with 2 kids in college - I'll qualify myself to say this:

Yea, you are the future - your voice that should be heard - "you" being in the generic sense - but most in college are young, idealistic, a bit clueless - so suggest, inform, invent, and create - but you're DEFINATELY NOT the ones who should be "telling" how things go.

Hugh said,
"Personally I am offended by Islam's quest to have Sharia law implemented in sovereign nations."

...and to Hugh, I ask, How do you feel about invading a sovereign nation?

JDR,

Couldn't agree more with your last posts. Another book of religion says in several places "Honor thy Father AND Mother". That also somewhat applies to any elders. They know more than you do (perhaps not more than you THINK you do) and to pass up that wisdom is foolish.

.......and Mohammad Atta was just here to be a pilot.

I dunno DD, Ask me in a couple of weeks after we go into Iran.

Hi Sam- Thanks for checking back. Best of luck to you, and don't let the idiots get to you.

Who's right Robert Gates or Hugh? You decide.

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/gates-says-us-not-planning-iran-war/20070202130609990002

If Hugh is right, then we will have yet another lie told to us by this administration.

"Biochemistry, huh? Guess you've learned all kinds of ways to blow stuff up. How ironic considering the subject at hand."

".......and Mohammad Atta was just here to be a pilot."

Nitpicker, I like you. I do. You are one of the more intelligent conservative-leaning bloggers in here. But, those were shameful statements to make about this young man. I think your religious views influenced those statements. The dark side of Christianity is really showing here. Normally, you are a wonderfully pragmatic and reasonable person. Shame on you dude! You know that was wrong.

"I have seldom met an intelligent person whose views were not narrowed and distorted by religion." James Buchanan

James D. Rockefeller, did you know that Muslims practiced religious tolerance when Christians did not? When the Moors had control of Granada, it was famous as a center of religious tolerance. Muslims, Jews, and Christians lived in peace. When Ferdinand and Isabella drove the Moors out of Spain, they also forced the Jews to convert or leave.

China also peacefully practiced three different religions throughout much of its history: Confucianism, Buddhism, and Taoism. Yes, there were tensions among the groups, but for the most part, they got along pretty well.

We Westerners don't have a monopoly on religious tolerance, historically. And Muslims don't have a monopoly on intolerance. I still think theocracies are dangerous, although Saudi Arabia and Iran are more dangerous than England. That's because of the fanaticism, not the religion itself.

stevie D. finally a person with a sense of knowledge

and i was waiting for hugh to remark something back to anything i said...

Sam, I like it when letter writers get on the blogs. Makes for a really interesting dialogue.

I personally am glad to see college students becoming involved in the affairs of our country. Please stay involved and rally your peers to vote. Do you realize how few of you voted during the last presidential election??? Do you realize that you and your peers are the ones who will be drafted if the war escalates? Do you realize that you will be repaying the huge debt we owe to China and Mexico?

Also realize that there are bigots, racists, and dumb a**** in all parts of our country and also in other countries. My best friend's husband has a slur for everyone who is not a heterosexual white American male. He learned it from his parents and has not been educated to know any better. So, keep the faith (in yourself and in our country). You are not alone.

Thanks for your contribution, Stevie. I hope nitpicker will rethink his statements.

Another thing few Americans realize is that Iraq was NOT a theocracy. IRAQ was an enemy of IRAN. They kept each other "honest". And what has our administration done? Wiped out Iran's enemy and made Iraq a theocracy. Really brilliant, isn't it?

Sam's dislike for the noted bumper sticker equates to my dislike for similar ones of "christian" flavor.

And as a society we must remember this; bumper sticker, t-shirt, and church sign theology is EXTREMELY dangerous. There is no depth to such, it is ALL fluff.

As can be seen from Sam's LTTE, such "theology" can cause harm, divisivness, and hurt. What "religion" has a purpose of doing such? I do not know of any. Maybe that is the problem, religion. If there were more people of a deep faith, such problems would be non-existent. However, we have far too many t-shirt/bumper sticker/church sign religionists. Until we can adequately deal with that segment; then damage, both direct and indirect, will happen.

May we seek the Divine and seek forgiveness from one another and live peaceably with one another.

Shalom

i forgot to thank denzien for your contribution!

thank you NanP also, that was one of the main things i was trying to get out

i hate the fact that college students are seen as the lazy part of society, when "back in the day" they were considered the corner stone of thought, i just think its time we regained what we [college students] were known for.

Also Darryl i think you for your support, but i'm not the MOST educated person out there, but i like to think i have a bit of intellegence, do you blame the remarks that people make because of NOT being deep into religion? or am i missing the entire direction of ur comment

Hugh,
We already invaded one sovereign nation, so why must you wait for another? Seems you have reached the proverbial fork in the road and have no exit strategy. Why does that sound familiar?

Greetings from S. Florida. It's cold here, only got up to 60 today.

As for the thread, I didn't read EVERY single post, but I'll keep it simple. Mr. author, you refer to racism several times in your letter. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought racism is prejudice against a race. I didn't know Islam is a race. As a Catholic I don't accuse someone of racism if they slam my religion.

Grow up!! It's a damn bumper sticker for crying out loud. If you feel that insecure in your faith then you must have problems with your faith.

Well, i dont know how they do thinigs down in Florida (honestly i dont care) but we try and read between the lines, that "dan" was a minor detail into a thread of something bigger. Second, Racism is the belief of a single race that is more superior to another group of people. so get ur facts straight.

enjoy ur 60 degree weather.

BeadBaby - I was generalizing about religion vs governement, not religious tolerence. what did I miss?

SirHamoush9, Dan is a regular to this blog and a local. He is rubbing it in to the rest of us that he's on vacation and we aren't. :p

That said, Dan, people of Middle Eastern descent look enough different from whites and African Americans that I think the label racism fits comfortably enough, if not perfectly. Are you looking to step on nitpicker's toes here? I'm sure SirHamoush would be willing to call it "religious bigotry" if that makes you feel any better. I don't care what you call it; it's still ugly.

As SirHamoush points out in his letter to the editor, he's experienced a lot of other discrimination/harassment because of his faith and probably also because of his skin color. The bumper sticker just encapsulated that attitude perfectly.

I've noticed that many of the posters have made the major issue here Muslim terrorism and fanaticism, not the bigotry. It's a lot easier to point out the flaws of others than our own. We can't directly change others; we can only change ourselves.

SirHamoush9, Dan is a regular to this blog and a local. He is rubbing it in to the rest of us that he's on vacation and we aren't. :p

That said, Dan, people of Middle Eastern descent look enough different from whites and African Americans that I think the label racism fits comfortably enough, if not perfectly. Are you looking to step on nitpicker's toes here? I'm sure SirHamoush would be willing to call it "religious bigotry" if that makes you feel any better. I don't care what you call it; it's still ugly.

As SirHamoush points out in his letter to the editor, he's experienced a lot of other discrimination/harassment because of his faith and probably also because of his skin color. The bumper sticker just encapsulated that attitude perfectly.

I've noticed that many of the posters have made the major issue here Muslim terrorism and fanaticism, not the bigotry. It's a lot easier to point out the flaws of others than our own. We can't directly change others; we can only change ourselves.

To some who have posted:

I am Sam's friend from UNCG. We have been friends now for over a year, so I feel as though I know him pretty well. And first of all, he would not blow stuff up...so way to jump to conclusions (I hate when people do that). Sam is a smart student, and a very hard working individual. He loves his friends, his family, and his community. He lends a helping hand to those in need, and he sympathizes with our problems. He is a wonderful man, and most would want to listen to what he had to say...but since none of you know him, here's what I think...

I do not pretend to know all the answers in this world, nor do I pretend to be some invincible young person who can do or say anything and not have consequences. We all have our opinions, that's what makes us Americans, and that's what makes us free. While the bumper sticker had it's opinion, it sent a different message to an individual who I find very dear. We all tend to perk up our ears and listen when someone we love is offended or hurt in some way. This was his choice to post his concerns, and it is not my place to defend him myself, he's a big boy. Furthermore, in our society, we are so quick to judge people by their skin color, their religion, their gender, their class, their beliefs, their clothes, and anything else God created to be different. Wether we believe in God, or Allah, we are all under one sky and we are all surrounded by one body of water. Going along with that, we do not always have to agree with what everyone says or feels. I, like most, would be offended if I saw something that was made into a national thing, where everyone could laugh, point, and joke with their friends, while sipping on coffee going down the road. But the point is not that I am offended...the point is, if my children were driving down the road, and they saw something that they had no participation in, and came to me and asked me "What does it mean when the bumper sticker says that I am a 'towelhead'?" I would probably want to do more than voice my opinion...I'd want it off the market. Wouldn't you? If you were to have your children called derogatory names in a country that SHOULD be free of injustices, would you not want to voice your opinion? Our children are being brought up in a world where we embrace our injustices, and let people get away with it. We punish the innocent, and we praise our government for allowing our society to do so. The punishable does not include people like Sam, it includes people who have hurt others (overseas or in our home country). I am personally not offended by much, but I do not stand, or represent, Americans who ignorantly define the Muslim faith without researching and learning about it. All we know, with our liberal media, is the stance the radicals have, and that is terrorism. Sam is by no means a terrorist, and most likely, 99.9999% of Muslim-Americans are not either. So next time you see a bumper sticker that offends you, and you go tell your family and friends about it...expect them to say "Well get off your high horse and deal with it." See how you feel about that.

Sorry for the double post above.

James D. Rockefeller, you said, ".. but deliberate separation is an American and maybe Western thing .. it is certainly NOT not an Islamic thing, where religion IS government and government IS religion - innerconnected and inseparable."

I pointed out that even in a predominantly Muslim area that religious freedom was possible. I don't think that means that religion and government MUST be the same, even in Muslim countries. I also pointed out that China had a lot of religious freedom earlier than any European state. You may be right that America was the first country to codify the separation of church and state; I admit that I don't know. But we certainly have no historical monopoly on freedom of religion. That's what I meant.

Sorry, I'm new to all this! Does a post usually get this many comments, because honestly, im loving the fact that i have sparked a major issue!

Didnt know Dan was a regular, my bad

In regards to threads getting this kind of response, my answer is a solid "sometimes yes, sometimes no", SirHamoush9. It all just depends...

Stick around- I'd like to see your opinions on some of the other items before us.

Sam,
I just got in from the hospital, and yes! your letter has gotten a fantastic response. Good work! Your friend Sara wrote a very compeling statement too, I thought. The freedom of speech we enjoy doesn't mean we shouldn't argue for treating each other with some respect while we are speaking. We are fortunate that there are college students concerned about these issues, and willing to take on a good dialogue without insulting one another. I too look forward to maybe hearing you chime in again in the future, Sam.
Tracy C.

" .. in a predominantly Muslim area that religious freedom was possible .. China had a lot of religious freedom earlier than any European state."

Examples all hundreds of years old ... I don't disagree - but sadly, for the most part that's no longer true.

I do not know a bunch about this, but my guess is these "religious freedoms" were pragmatic solutions - not as absolute as you may be implying.

According to this guy -
http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/national-parks-international/granada-2/1011536/
" ... Moorish rulers imposing a tax on all non-Muslims to permit their continued right to worship in their own way."

Freedom for all who can afford to purchase it, which is pretty much the history of the world in one sentence.

btw . there's a really fascinating example of Religion getting in the way of things - OK a bit off thread but that never slows me down:

I forget the details - but at one point the Greek Scholars were "discovered" in midevial Europe ... three great men lead the charge: a Christian, and Jew and a Muslim.

... sounds like the start of a joke, huh ?!?!

anyway the Christian and the Jew embraced the thinkings and championed it to the Kings. The Muslim rejected it - because it had to do with mathematically defined SHAPES and PERSPECTIVE and IMAGES ... and the image of Allah.

So the Muslim - who was a VERY influential Cleric - in general rejected science and had all his people head back to the Holy land, and they've been stuck in a primitive world ever since.

btw - that's from memory but is really close to what actually happened - look it up and get back to me.

Sam, your letter doesn't hold the record for comments...we had over 100 a while back. There are lots of regulars on this blog. We "know" each other well. I have learned a lot participating for the last year.

As a retired school teacher, I find it encouraging to hear the thoughts of college students and other young people. I am a UNC-G grad (I started when it was Womans College, good old WC). I expect you and Sara to get your campus involved in politics and to stay involved. Let me know if I can help.

I can see how such a bumper sticker would be very offensive. I can also see how years of poor experiences with the ignoramouses in the community would take their toll.

All I can say is to take such displays with a grain of salt. I don't want to sound contrite about your situation, one in which I admittedly have never experienced. Look at your accomplishments. You graduated from UNCG with a degree in biochemistry. How many people can say that? I am going out on a limb here, but I would hazard to guess that the fellow with the bumper sticker can't list that accomplishment on his resume.

Bottom line is, we live in a very diverse society. We are a compilation of all. That is both a strength and weakness. The weakness is that a few can set a tone for the many. I hope that the few you have had bad experiences with do not set a bad tone for our community. I believe that those folks are the abberation, not the norm.

A good example is when I pass by a house with a Confederate flag in front of it. I have little doubt that many people find this offensive. I have little doubt that the owners know that, but choose, notwithstanding, to exercize their right and fly it anyway. We can't change this. We can't stop them. But what we can do is to mitigate them and their actions to a level that ceases to allow them to affect us. Look at them, consider who they are, what their values may be, and ask yourself if their opinions warrant your concern. Are they worth your time?

Bottom line is, try to ignore it and don't let their ignorant attitudes ruin your day or mood. Easy for me to say, true. But look at who you are, and what you have done. You define you, they do not.

Good comment Swanks.

Here's some other advice. Grow some skin. If I got upset and wrote a letter every time a white person or a Christian view was slammed or disparaged by comedians, politicians, and others, there would be an lte in the paper daily. Probably more than one.

People continually take the name of Jesus Christ and God in vain. They invent all kinds of curse words to stick between the name Jesus and Christ as if it is funny. They make fun of Christians and biblical principles daily. I know what that type of anger and insult is all about in terms of being offended by religious slams. White people are portrayed as rhythmless, nerdy or confederate flag waving idiots. So I also know what it is like to be disparaged for the color of my skin.

People "of color" no not have a monopoly on being offended.

Sorry my last attempt at humor fell flat.

I generally am respectful of folks and watch carefully what I say regarding their race, religion, beliefs, etc. However, there's no requirement for the rest of the country to pussy-foot around anybody's sensitive spots. That's part of what living in America is about. Take it or leave it.

Sam,

While your comments don't necessarily fit the mold, it's been my observation that many folks whether they be Mexican, White, Arab, Gay or any other race are quickly evolving their skills for the 'victim' mentality. The backlash to political correctness is gonna get ugly before it gets better.

Stevie D,
Thanks for calling nitpicker out on what has to be an ingrained religious prejudice. Guess we should really be upset at his parents, but that's for another day! :)

"While your comments don't necessarily fit the mold, it's been my observation that many folks whether they be Mexican, White, Arab, Gay or any other race are quickly evolving their skills for the 'victim' mentality."
What the heck brought that on? Nitpicker shows exactly how little we understand other cultures with crap like that!

SirHamoush9, regarding the clarity of my post from last evening; I did not state myself as clearly as I would have hoped/liked (sometimes commone with me).

My point is that in the US (as I would hope is has been learned), there is a large percentage of people who are "faithful" to a religious cause. Yet, these same people are religious, NOT deeply faithful. They tackle/attack issues and are not consistent with their "faith" practices. For instance, a common issue is life. There is a group of religious people who are completely against abortion because they consider that to be taking a life (a form of murder). Yet, many in this same group support capital punishment (yet another form of murder). Many in this group consider the "unborn" life more sacred than the born and older life. If it is murder in the womb, then it is murder as an older person.

You see SirHamoush9, far too many people take faith/religious issues from "talking points" from a bumper sticker/t-shirt, etc.

I do not and never meant to infer that you were not a faithful/deeply faithful or religious person, nor uneducated. I apologize if that was what was read. That was not my intent. I hope the above helped to clarify. If not, let's keep the communication lines open. I am more than happy to dialogue with any.

Shalom

Sam-- I think you are right on track. And by the way, its not your job to apologize for the actions on everyone else. Otheriwse, I want apology from all white people- Because Im really tired of those white dudes raping children, and the white women for killing theirs.