News-Record.com

Walter Reed = Hillarycare.

I thought it perfect timing that the conditions at Walter Reed were reveiled shortly after Christmas. Shortly after the gaudy waste of the taxpayers' monies on the elaborate Christmas celebrations at the WH. Laura spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on decorations and parties. I wondered how that money would have helped the conditions at WR.

As I see it, the troops have never been a priority with the current administration. The Bush's are too removed from the common people to have any empathy or sympathy for the plight of fine folks who represent this country. If their own children were among the ones serving or if Bush himself had served in 'Nam, perhaps it would make them (him) a little more aware. Naw, I doubt it. He is too RC.

Those like meow, above, hide behind the yellow ribbons while jumping up and down to send MORE American soldiers into harms' way. Do they really support the troops? If so, then how? By supporting the President? These are two totally different situations and the curtain has been pulled back. So, to put it in the adolescent terms meow and others seem to only understand:

Support Bush = Support incompetence

Support our troops = Support them here and abroad

Sorry for having to post to the level of meow and his level of understanding, but evolution is a slow process.

Source: an anonymous marine.

The base closer list came during the Clinton administration and the democrats were the majority of senate. The Clinton administration closed bases and cut military budget so they could afford to support welfare programs that they supported. Now that the military needs things like medical facilities and armor to protect our fighting men and women there isn't enough funding to do the job. Bet if someone checked funds were requested to improve the conditions at Walter Reed Hospital. However, it takes years to get increased funding for any military program. But, we have enough for the liberal democrats to give illegal immigrates benefits.

When the Clinton Administration closed MCAS El Toro, CA in the mid 1990's. It was suggested that the base housing be turned over to low income housing. After inspection the housing was found unfit for welfare families to live in. Yet the military couldn't get funding to improve the conditions there while enlisted and officers lived in that same housing.

Source(s):
21 years in the US Marine Corps. Lived through the base closures of the Clinton Administration.

neocon, I usually don't bother to respond to your rants, but I'll make an exception this time, and ask a few questions:

Who recommended those base closures?
Who signed the The Defense Authorization Amendments and Base Closure and Realignment Act of 1988 into law?
Who signed the Defense Base Closure and Realignment Act of 1990 into law?
When were those bases recommended for closure?
Who on that 1990 panel is in office right now?

.. so now it's CLINTON's Fault? ... for using the money to advance Welfare Programs? The same programs that were significantly CUT by Clinton?

you really are delusional

btw, closing bases in an ongoing strategy:
http://usinfo.state.gov/is/Archive/2005/May/16-963531.html
http://www.dod.mil/brac/
http://www.dod.mil/brac/pdf/President-Congress15Sep05.pdf

btw, Rambo .. ... who asked "The People" for "War" funding .. or "Fix Walter Reed" funding? Not you and not your "Ballsy" Leader.

... and who's been saying "Damm we have a lot of wounded soldiers coming back, we'd better plan on taking care of them. Not you and not your "Ballsy" Leader.

For all your bluster, Biff, you have no accountability. Have you no shame either?

Got to hand it to neocon, he doesn't let facts get in his way.

My, my... look at all the nasty responses to the opinion article posted from a 21 year marine veteran.
(not my words btw, but I'm happy to copy & paste them here)
Walter Reed has been a shambles and a joke for decades. This is typical government healthcare, long on bureaucracy and short on quality ...typical government institution. Why should it surprise anyone that such an institution be so poorly run? Oh yeah I forgot...Bush is at the helm now.

It doesn't surprise me. In 1999 I did an "As Build" for a Vet Hospital Charleston SC (I think that's where it was). One sad and depressing place bro', and that was before the Victory in Iraq was more than a fantasy for Cheney & Pearle.

It should be no surprise you blame Clinton either - but I hope Jesus reminds you of all those times you and yours were doing the "Support our Troups" lip-serve.

Interesting, JDR, to watch the little man change his tune when his BS gets called.

Interesting indeed.

I don't believe in blaming Clinton but I agree that it makes about as much sense as blaming Bush. Neocon is right. Our military has not been well funded and the funding has been mismanaged for decades.

I'm still laughing at blaming Christmas celebrations at the WH for Walter Reed. How many Christmas celebrations have happened at the White House over the last 20 years? 50 years?

That's about as laughable as people complaining about Bush's inauguration party. Memory must be short-term if they don't remember the Diana Ross/Bob Dylan/LL COOL J/ Aretha Franklin/Michael Bolton/ Tony Bennet in Clinton's "Call for Reunion" inauguration bash.

I'm not saying Bush's inauguration wasn't ridiculously lavish. It was. But the idea that it was anything out of the ordinary in DC is misleading.

... tell you what I see, Den:

Some folks believe what they want - as doubleD said - inspite of the facts.

Truely sad. This same foolishness attaches to other topics in this blog too.

NP - Bush is not to blame for decades of neglect in the care of our soldiers .. no one said that.

Bush is to blame for going half cocked into Iraq.

Bush is to blame for not understanding the need for Military expenditures before going half cocked into Iraq. I'll cut him a break on the first year of Emergency Appropriation .. and maybe even the second year .. but after 5 years we're STILL Emergency Appropriating for a war he gets cheers when declaring "Not On My Watch".

Bush is to blame for hiding the horrors of war .. blocking pictures of caskets, etc.

Bush is to blame for running this war for the purpose of expanding the power of the hiding the horrors of war .. blocking pictures of caskets, etc.

Sorry - my stomach is pained into knots over this

Bush is to blame for running this war for the purpose of expanding the power of Republican Party - placing politics ahead of Soldiers.

Please show me where I have "changed my tune".

Walter Reed = Hillarycare.

Walter Reed is a microcosim of what is in store for America under the socialized medical system so many of you crave.

... except no one knows what "Hilary Care" would have been, Biff. It was SQUASHED by William Kristol - the leader of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy - because it might actually have been a good thing and he made sure the Dem's would never get credit for anything that might possibly have been decent for America.

So keep up your partisan crap. It shows well your intent.

Changed your tune? It's when you're backed into a corner by the truth and you change the topic. Case in point: this thread.

But yeah, it's all Hillary's fault. Whatever you say.

I've went back and re-read to make sure I didn't get crossthreaded. I fail to see where I have changed the subject, that being Walter Reed.
But whatever.

cRock-o-...feller:
Walter Reed = government run healthcare.
Hillarycare = government run healthcare.

Even you should be able to connect the dots.

Conservative = Liberal
Liberal = Conservative
Napolean is always right.
All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

James,

"MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"

It is truly sad how those who run around with the yellow ribbons and the "tough talk" are the same ones who tuck tail and run when it comes to truly supporting the troops. The Center for the Intrepid is a $30 million dollar state of the art facility built with private funds because those who "talk" of support only do so for political gamesmanship. Those soldiers who were sent into war, deserve to have the top care upon their arrival home, no matter how broken they are from the war.
Here's a great link if you are not familiar with the "Liberals" who led the charge to build the center down at Brooke Army Medical Center.
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123039223

I agree with JDR that the administration should have invested more $$ in military hospitals after the Iraq war started, simply in anticipation of more wounded troops returning from battle. After all, this war has had relatively few casualties as compared to other wars but there have been an enormous amount of injuries needing extensive, expensive medical care.

I do believe that the administration is angry about Walter Reed and taking steps to remedy the situation.

I also agree with Neo that Walter Reed is but a microcosim of what we can expect with govt. run health care.

The govt. is so wasteful with taxpayer money in other endeavors that it truly amazes me some people want the govt. to take over our healthcare system. Must be the entitlement mentality.

Take a look at our neighbors to the north. Canada has only 32 million people, one tenth the US, but their govt. run healthcare system involves long wait times to receive medical treatment. Canadians with $$ come here for treatment and pray we don't go to national healthcare as they will have nowhere to go.

Canada launched a "Wait Times Reduction Fund" in 2004 to....reduce wait times! Notice the word "fund". That means more taxpayer money. Lots of money. $4.5 Billion. Billion with a B. JDR, what is 4.5 billion divided by 32 million? I need the per capita $$ for this fund and my cell phone calculator won't go that high.

The $4.5 billion is just for a fund to reduce wait times. If a system covering 32 million is broken then imagine what a system covering 300 million would be like.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/qual/acces/wait-attente/index_e.html

Built by what neocon (and probably you too) would call "liberals", the Center for the Intrepid is a world class rehab center for returning soldiers. Obviously, some people were anticipating the need, before the administration was anticipating the need. Dan, you've done just what neocon does, dodged the issue on Walter Reed. Save your political ideology for another day, as this is about "Supporting the Troops", plain and simple. The folks, like neocon, hide behind the yellow ribbons, foaming at the mouth in their war cries, but show up a day late and a dollar short when the troops need support. Try reading the information I posted above on the Center for the Intrepid. You'll be better for it, and it will spare you the embarrassment that goes along with the ribbon magnet only philosophy.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123039223

no one doubts that these soldiers deserve alot better. remind me again, how many congressmen and women visited walter reed?? how many times???
the media owns your very thought process.
and notice no one mentions the millions in this country who live day to day in the exact same conditions in the democrat ghetto's, aka public housing. get a clue.

DD, I guess you didn't read my comment stating the Bush admin. should have anticipated more $$ for military hospitals in a time of war. Instead of praising me for criticizing the admin. you come up with magnetic ribbons.

My point is that govt. is inefficient, so are many govt. employees. Some of the testimony from wounded soldiers were complaints of lack of care from the staff. One guy said his son laid in his own feces for over an hour and developed bedsores because the nurse wouldn't get around to changing him. He and his wife transferred their son to a private hospital. Before you claim I heard this on Rush, etc. actually I heard it on NPR yesterday whilst driving to WV.

The VA hosptial system would do better to be outsourced. That way coorporations would have to compete for the contracts to run the hospitals. If they do not perform they are fired and someone else is hired. They will also run the hospitals more efficiently than the govt. could ever do.

If the govt. can't even run the VA hospital system efficiently than why in God's green earth would we want the govt. to run a national healthcare system?

As for Intrepid, I applaud private initiatives to help our soldiers no matter who is funding it, libs are welcome to help.

Gotta go eat dinner now.

Dan:

4,500,000,000 is $4.5 Billion
32,000,000 is 32 million.

wack off the same number of zeros on both (6)

4,500 / 32 = $140

I recently read the latest statistics:

Health care in this country cost $6500 / person.
Health care in the rest of the developed world $2800 / person.

TRUE there is less waiting here.
Other counties have the same level of health care by statistics like .. # of infantile deaths, longevity of average Joe, survival after cancer -- across the board.

We spend three times as much in our "private" health care system as they do in their "public" health care system - FOR THE SAME COVERAGE - with the exception of the wait - which as I understand it is for non-life threatening situations.

AND FOR WHAT IT"S WORTH .. we DO have a "public" health care system - it's called the Emergency Room. now what were you saying about EFFECIENCY?

btw - you hit it: Private institutions FIRE people for being inept.

I really do not want g-men to "run" the system .. but the currently "unrun" it with all the CORPORATE interference they provide. I do want them to take advantage of "volume business" - and I want them to enable more efficiency - like eliminating the "the-emergency-room-is-my-Dr." program we currently have ...

and as a people Iwant us to openly discuss the value of $10,000 / dose medicines that do little to add to ones life .. and most of the Terry Schrivo's (sp) types will tell you that we need to VALUE LIFE and therefore piss that money away .. but I though they were waiting to get to heaven so what the heck are they spenning My insurance money for adding 3 more weeks to grandma's crumpled but still heaven bound body.

reminds me of a joke but I'm not in the mode to tell it.

Is that really "mode" JDR or "mood"?

I'm not sure where your $6500/person comes from. That's what I spend annually for health insurance for a family of 4. We have minor copays but it doesn't add anything substantial.

I would rather pay more and have treatment than wait 12.1 weeks for cardiac surgery or 20.9 weeks for a knee replacement.

http://canadaonline.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=canadaonline&cdn=newsissues&tm=17&gps=134_8_1072_604&f=10&tt=14&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.healthservices.gov.bc.ca/waitlist/

Damn that's a long link, sorry.

I've heard of cases where treatable cancers were not treated in time due to excessive wait times.

I do agree with you that we go way to far in spending money keeping grandmas appointment with God delayed by three weeks. Also agree about the misuse of emergency rooms. I work in hospitals all the time and they tell me the same.

"I fail to see where I have changed the subject, that being Walter Reed."

Base closure. Clinton.

Read better next time.

"The VA hosptial system would do better to be outsourced."

You're probably right.

HOWEVER, guess what happened when the Pentagon outsourced management of Walter Reed in 2006?

Guess who they outsourced it to?

Guess what went wrong?

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/03/Weightmansubpoena/

If you answered, All the talent left, A former Halliburton guy, and squalid conditions for injured soldiers, you win.

Pretty bad Denz. So the govt. is even incapable of outsourcing effectively?

"Base closure. Clinton."

Subject change? Nope, Slick Willie's gutting the military was as aside in the marine's point concerning Walter Reed. You and cRock-o-...feller got your feathers ruffled about his mention of Clinton. Heaven knows Clinton would never support anything that was detrimental to the military he loathed... ahem... loved now would he?

If you want to see government run health care in action, take a trip to Salisbury and visit the VA medical center there. It is a portrait of government bureaucracy and red tape. This should be a required field trip for the socialists who are hell bent on having the government confiscate someone Else's money to pay for their health care.

"Subject change? Nope, Slick Willie's gutting the military was as aside in the marine's point concerning Walter Reed"

Great. Let's talk about Slick Willie. Go on an answer some of my questions. I'll even repost them here for you:

Who recommended those base closures?
Who signed the The Defense Authorization Amendments and Base Closure and Realignment Act of 1988 into law?
Who signed the Defense Base Closure and Realignment Act of 1990 into law?
When were those bases recommended for closure?
Who on that 1990 panel is in office right now?

Got to hand it to neocon, he doesn't let facts get in his way.

Dan,
On the surface, your "outsourcing" talks seems very attractive. But as investigators dig around, they are finding that the outsourcing is a large part of the problem.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17489352/

Hope you read this link rather than comment without reading. It will make your posts more topic relative. Seems that outsourcing is NOT the answer to all problems, rather a way to deflect responsibility and reward contractors like Halliburton. The new Secretary of Defense is quite formidable. I like his style and I think he'll get results. For the "Rah-Rah Bush" crowd, it further reflects on just how badly Rumsfeld was doing his job. What is, is.

Bush
Bush
Bush

I have no problem with base closures. Point is Walter Reed has been a dump for decades and only now has it come to be the #1 issue for the compassionate, military loving liberals who in times past, didn't give a rat's ass about the deplorable conditions there. They still don't give a rat's ass about the conditions there, what they DO give a rat's ass about is this makes for a nice new club to whack Bush over the head with and of course the media is just as pleased as punch to participate.

cRock-o-...feller, if William Kristol single handedly torpedoed Hillarycare, he deserves a place on Rushmore.

World traveler, ever had an original thought or do you just...nah...never mind, go to your room. It's past nite-nite time.

Here you go Dan.

I could not find the more recent version (read it somewhere) but frome a reputablesource:

U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS)

http://aspe.hhs.gov/health/MedicalExpenditures/index.shtml.

"Health expenditures per capita (or per person) rose from $143 in 1960 to $5,670 in 2003"

You'll find lower numbers - but they are typically titled something like the "average expenditure made by a family of four" .. and that doesn't take into account the exgtreme cost of caring for the elderly and cronically sick.

Here's what I was talking about (same link):

Top 10 percent of users used 53.8% of the monies.

and ...

$100 billion in so-called tax expenditures for health care .. incurred 2003. Those tax expenditures represent income taxes that are foregone .. If those foregone tax receipts are taken into account — more than 60 percent — was either directly financed by federal and state and local governments ....

same link, better connection:

http://aspe.hhs.gov/health/MedicalExpenditures/ib.pdf

DD, I read your link and even though I'm dubious of msnbc links, it seems Denz posted a similar link and I don't refute it.

Like I said, outsource services and if the contractor is not performing then fire their asses and get a more responsible contractor. The govt. isn't even capable of properly outsourcing in this case. Pathetic.

The govt. has managed to outsource Flight Service Stations for us pilots to get aviation weather. The service is better than whence run by govt., so I give credit for that.

Call me jaded, but I don't have much confidence in govt. services regardless of whether R's or D's are in charge.

Unrelated but interesting. Who ended up more black in Selma, AL this weekend, Hillary or Obama? I liked Obama's bit about fatherhood not ending at conception and daddys needing to be around to raise the kids. Kinda Bill Cosbyesque.

Good night from Charleston, WV.

DD, I read your link and even though I'm dubious of msnbc links, it seems Denz posted a similar link and I don't refute it.

Like I said, outsource services and if the contractor is not performing then fire their arses and get a more responsible contractor. The govt. isn't even capable of properly outsourcing in this case. Pathetic.

The govt. has managed to outsource Flight Service Stations for us pilots to get aviation weather. The service is better than whence run by govt., so I give credit for that.

Call me jaded, but I don't have much confidence in govt. services regardless of whether R's or D's are in charge.

Unrelated but interesting. Who ended up more black in Selma, AL this weekend, Hillary or Obama? I liked Obama's bit about fatherhood not ending at conception and daddys needing to be around to raise the kids. Kinda Bill Cosbyesque.

Good night from Charleston, WV.

When I tried to post the above comment it was rejected by the site due to inappropriate language. I used the word a**es instead of arses. Oh well, clean it up folks, Dan was busted :-(

"The govt. isn't even capable of properly outsourcing in this case. Pathetic."

Agreed, but you realize that makes us Soldier-haters, due to the fact that it was our glorious military's ineptness that caused the conundrum, and, as we all know, anything military is beyond reproach.... unless you're a Clinton.

The arguments here are funny: It's not Bush's fault- it's always been like that, and Slick willy closed all them bases! It needs to be privatized!!

When in reality, Bush worked towards the reckless privatization we see, and has since 2002, Slick Willy acted on advice from Daddy Bush's team, not to mention none other than Dick Cheney, and privatizing operations at Walter Reed (granted, through a flawed bidding process) is arguably partially to blame for the messed up situation we've got going on now.

It'll be interesting to watch Waxman work on this one. He seems to have the public's attention, and rightly so.

Oh, and:

Don't get me wrong- conditions could have been better at VA hospitals and elsewhere in the military since 1789, and I don't intend for my comments to be construed as overlooking that fact.

I think that Bush and Company seriously dropped the ball when it came to postwar Iraq, and how to deal with it, and cases such as Walter Reed only draw that failure into clear focus. Ongoing problems aside, this admin has done nothing but mismanage all aspects of the war.

Also, I see that privatization in many areas would be a darn fine thing, and I support it. However, in this case, where you have little accountability, the appearance of impropriety, a tangled bidding process, inept management, and a seeming disdain for transparency, you're bound to fail. That's why I said "reckless privatization" above.

Denz,
When faced with the irrefutable, the "I'm a Republican First" crowd blames Clinton, then trashes the military for the poor job at Walter Reed---the same military they claim to be supporting with their yellow ribbons. If it weren't so sad, it would be hilarious.

Don Imus said it best this morning, when he noted that Bush/Cheney have contempt for the solidiers.
They don't want pictures of the coffins, they don't attend the funerals, and they don't give a rat's anal orifice about the care given the soldiers AFTER they serve.

The folks hiding behind the yellow ribbons are dispicable. If they truly support the troops, they certainly wouldn't support the current administration.

Did Bush come up with the idea to not show picturs of coffins. I think the original purpose was a sign of respect. I could be wrong. Maybe seeing those coffins would demoralize folks' support for the war. But just for the record, this wasn't Bush's device.

I think that lilbean hit on a really good point.

Why are we just talking about this now? Why is Walter Reed important now? Why wasn't it important for the last 4 years? Why are republicans just NOW looking into it? Why are democrats just NOW griping about it?

As to the coffins, the ban on photos was Cheney's way of keeping the country from seeing the real toll of war. It had NOTHING TO TOD WITH HONORING THE TROOPS! It was about control, and nothing else.

"Why are we just talking about this now? Why is Walter Reed important now? Why wasn't it important for the last 4 years? Why are republicans just NOW looking into it? "
BINGO! These are the real questions.