News-Record.com

Christopher,

Although many who post here will say your letter if full of doom and gloom, I agree with much of what you say. We, as a nation, are quickly losing any respect we once had in world standing. Our corrupt political leaders are major contributors to this loss.

We have such poor examples of right and wrong exhibited by our leaders. Their "Anything goes as long as you don't get caught" attitude and behavior are prime examples of the corruption. And should they get caught, they just lie their way out of it or challenge everyone else to prove it's not their executive privilege to do what they want.

The president of our nation has done more to destroy law and order than anyone previously. Then he acts like some kind of dictator or king, defying anyone to do anything about his conduct (or the conduct of those close to him).

When someone like that holds the highest position in this country, what else can you expect but decline?

You are also right about the lack of discipline being a major contributor to the ills that we are struggling with. Children of today respect very little and are afraid of almost nothing. A little fear for the consequences of their bad behavior is healthy, imo. In fact, they should be afraid of the consequences BEFORE they behave badly. But it seems child rearing is not on the priority list of very many parents. The kids of this generation control the parents, not the other way around.

Until people refuse to accept lying, corrupt politicians and start accepting some responsibility for their children and their country, America will continue to die. A pretty grim thought but reality based.

"We have such poor examples of right and wrong exhibited by our leaders. Their "Anything goes as long as you don't get caught" attitude and behavior are prime examples of the corruption. And should they get caught, they just lie their way out of it or challenge everyone else to prove it's not their executive privilege to do what they want"

Must you continue to bring up Bill Clinton?

I think Christopher Knight, the LTE writer, is really Jimmy Carter incognito .. you know the guy that started the precipitous fall of the USSR, and gave George the idea to wear a sweater on TV ...

==

Rock: I'm sure you'll agree that description fits about half the folks inside the 10 square mile area names after the Father of our country.

Christopher and Yvonne, it is clear from your letter and follow-up posting that you despair for the United States. I am certain you will find many who agree with your point of view, both here and abroad.

What we need is a MENTOR nation ... one that has its act together, that exhibits not only Christian morality, but intelligence, industriousness and discipline. One where there is care for their liberties and where law and order are always foremost in the minds of their elected officials. One where the children behave properly and show only the utmost respect for other people and property.

I am sure either one of you will be able to point us toward this shining example on the hill that can lead us to salvation. Please inform us now, so that we may begin to emulate that fine nation at once.

Man.

What a great letter.

This guy has issued a challenge. Not to the political leaders. Not to bad parents of children. Not to anyone else that we can point at as the source of the problem. The challenge is to you and me and the failings of anyone else do not absolve us from the responsibility for our own actions.

My hat off to Christopher Knight.

This letter is exactly as I originally submitted it, with one exception. As it is published here it omits the first sentence that I started the letter with. Want to know what that sentence was?

Here it is:

"Does America deserve to survive?"

When I wrote that ours is "a culture built on Schadenfreude", I meant it. Everything from our moral character to our entertainment to our economy has become dependent on taking joy at the suffering of others. The "SCREW YOU I GOT MINE JACK!" mentality dominates this land. We aren't a happy people unless we are being vicious and cruel to someone else. I see it everyday, cropping up in things ranging from mundane conversation to the Internet (why does the web seem to magnify the animosity of most people?).

You see it in our political system and how it's reported on Fox News and CNN. We barely even pretend anymore that our actions are done for the greater good: "Let's hear it for the power!" as Nancy Pelosi shouted on the day she became House Speaker.

We've let people like Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter on "the right" and websites like Daily Kos on "the left" make hating others not only something that's morally acceptable, but fashionable. Too many of us have eagerly followed their lead.

A people that have divided themselves between "conservatives" and "liberals" are shallow and ignorant. Those who insist that the world is divided into "red state and blue state" do so because they have not matured past the childish instinct to hate someone. As I said, show me a man who rails against "liberals" or "conservatives", and I will show you a man who is unhappy unless he has someone to thoroughly despise.

Partly because of our willingness to hate, we largely don't think for ourselves anymore. The two most recent presidential administrations have proven that much. We've shown that we're all too willing to swallow any lie that is presented us. And we have readily demonstrated that we will eagerly fall into line behind whatever pretty face the powers-that-be decree we are to follow. It's come to the point where those who do dare question the qualifications and motives of these "leaders" are openly accused of "aiding and abetting the enemy".

And look at what that has brought us to: government monitoring of our phone conversations and e-mails, the veritable suspension of Habeas Corpus, warrant-less searches, a "no-fly" list that apparently targets some for nothing more than stating political beliefs, forthcoming national ID cards...

Why is it again that America was a better country than the Soviet Union?

The rule of law in America is almost completely dead. Government does what it wants without restraint. Our representatives are installed by a political machine and with rare exception have any connect with the American people.

But we don't dare protest. We not only nod our heads and meekly accept this as "the way things are". Then we commence to buy things fast and loose on credit so that we can watch the Super Bowl on a plasma-screen TV, or get something else that we really don't need and can't afford. Instead of confronting the problem we drink ourselves into numbness and hope that it will "just go away".

So... does America deserve to survive? It's out of love for something, not hatred, that I ask us to consider how we've come to this point in our affairs.

America is what we the people make of her. America is what we desire her to be. America is a reflection of who we are.

Don't try to wash this away with patriotic banter. Patriotism for sake of patriotism is worthless. Patriotism has value only if there is something inherently good in a nation to be proud of.

What is there left in America for us to boast that we are blessed with?

If America is a land where her people cannot practice simple kindness, if we have made the desire for "things" our greatest priority, if we think nothing of exploiting our fellow man... then what good is there left in America at all?

When you think about how this nation was founded and the tenets it once held precious and how we are today, it makes you wonder if we in the modern day really ever wanted that America to begin with.

So I am compelled to ask: is America worth defending anymore? Does America deserve to still stand?

Because if it has become that America and God are just convenient tools in the pursuit of avarice, then America does not deserve to persist. And we might as well admit that we do not desire God.

Indeed, if it's no longer possible that we can be kind to one another and pursue that which is good, then America does not deserve to stand at all.

If America is no longer worth defending, it is because we who profess the Judeo-Christian ethic, having failed to seek God's will, have sought to impose our own. The Christians of this land should have long ago crucified their lust for power. Rather they ran and hid it within their hearts. In the name of collective might, we have turned our hearts away from the God of Heaven and toward a god of fortresses.

But instead of repenting and turning back from this idolatry, we dare ask God for His seal of approval.

We decided that we wanted an easy life on earth instead of righteousness before God. And the rest of the country naturally followed our lead.

These things didn't have to happen. But we let them happen all the same: because we've chosen the pursuit of power over the pursuit of good.

This was a good country once, because for the most part it was generally held that there was something higher than ourselves to which we would be held accountable.

Is America worth defending now? I don't believe so.

Could it be made worthy of honor again? Yes, definitely.

But we - as in all of us - are going to have to come to understand something first...

It doesn't take "the right man" being elected to Congress or the White House, or a mass rally by thousands in Raleigh or Washington, to change things for the better.

God doesn't act through governments. God doesn't act through the Republican Party, or the Democrat Party for that matter. God doesn't act through the 700 Club or Focus on the Family. God doesn't act through any denomination. God certainly doesn't act through the latest "church growth" fads.

God acts through that most despised of minorities: the individual.

If America deserves to be lost, it is because ordinary men and women knew that something was wrong but did nothing. Because they were too cowered by "the system": they felt they didn't have enough strength or wealth or political pull.

Without true and sincere acknowledgment of God for nothing less than its own sake, we are fast descending into a race of barbarians. It happened to Germany: there's no reason to believe it won't happen here also.

I'm amazed at the number of professing Christians who show more zeal and delight in attacking their "political enemies" than they do in preaching the kingdom of Christ. It only signifies that their primary interest is gaining favor and power in the eyes of the world, instead of being separate and looking toward something beyond this realm.

There is a spiritual decline in America's character because we as Christians let it happen: we became too fixated on acquiring power. It corrupted us and it went on to corrupt the nation around us.

There needs to be a nationwide repentance and contrition on the part of those that profess belief in God, if they truly desire a country worth being thankful for again. And not repentance for sake of the country's well-being, but repentance solely for the sake of how far we have drifted from where we are supposed to be in the sight of God.

But we can't wait for a "movement" to germinate dedicated to "fix" these things. Indeed, something organized toward this goal with a "leadership" would be counter-productive. It is impossible for collective will to save us.

Whether America lives or dies depends on the individual.

Think that one person can't make a difference? Think of Gandhi. Think of Rosa Parks. It only takes a single person possessing the will to do what is right to make an empire tremble.

I don't know if that will ever happen. Pride is too much our master. We have become like the rich young ruler who could not follow Christ because of his wealth.

But if we can choose in our hearts that America and what is good about it is still something worth passing down to our children, then it seems that each of us would be willing to sacrifice some temporary luxury - and to begin to think for ourselves instead of letting others think for us - in order to give that to them.

We can decide that we want to leave this country - and this world - a little better than how it was that we found it. Or we can let it be lost forever: if not this year or the next, then assuredly at some point in most of our lifetimes.

We can opt to live for ourselves and let it all be lost, or surrender our lust for power and seek righteousness... and give America a chance to endure.

Don't wait for your government, or for Pat Robertson or Jesse Jackson or George W. Bush or Hillary Clinton or anyone else of that kind to tell you how to save this country. We know what they're really after now. They had their chance and they blew it.

If America deserves to survive for our grandchildren, then it's going to be up to you and me to make that happen.

Just as it should be.

Nice follow-up, Christopher. Stick around!

Lots of the "negative" you're talking about, Christopher, has been defended here and elswhere as "CAPITALISM" .. you know, you can grab all you want and screw the other guy because it's the American Way - and all one has to do is be a bigger bastard than others and you too can become the new Thomas Sowell or Rush and your value will be "proven" by being more popular .. remember FOX is the most popular TV show, and that shows it's value.

That's the jist of many posts in here, and Jack may now correct my poor paragraph structure 'cause I'm to lazy to go back and redo it.

Some may also offer to mail you a Canadian Flag Patch to sew on your jacket ..

==

While I generally agree with where you're coming from - America is still one of the better things going, and the "Terrible but better than anything else" rhetoric applies well.

I also think it's not as bad as you paint, however we are headed downhill rapidly, and wholly support you stance of "let's get it working better."

And all God's children said AMEN.

Here's where I depart from the script:

Not, "America is still one of the better things going, and the "Terrible but better than anything else" rhetoric applies well."

Rather, "America is still the best thing going, and the 'Terrific but it can be made better' rhetoric applies well."

In any event, Christopher and Yvonne, which nation(s) is your nominee(s) for the MENTOR state(s) that the U. S. should strive to emulate? I'm certain you can provide at least one example of a country that has its act more together than this one. I'd really like to know ... not so that your selection can be refuted ... but to better see what values and institutions you admire and respect.

"which nation(s) is your nominee(s) for the MENTOR state(s) that the U. S. should strive to emulate?"

The United States of America... circa late 1787.

Excuse me Mr. Knight but who the hell are you to judge America? Your holier than though self righteous attitude is indicative of everything you rail against. My relationship with my God is my business, not yours. If you think my God will only be happy when I worship him your way than how are you different from the 700 club or cults like the Druids and Quakers?

And while you’re displaying your very limited knowledge of history, look and see what happened to countries that rolled over and let the Muslims take over; do you think for a moment that they have any of the rights you speak of? That same exact thing is going to happen to America if we don’t stop them in their tracks.

I pray to my God daily and ask him to please ensure that kooks like you don’t get into a position where you can control the systems that keep this country free. BTW, if bending a few freedoms helps keep me free and able to pray to my God the way I see fit, than so-be-it. I’ve been to place where they don’t have that option and it ain’t pretty.

Rock,
I don't know if "the Muslims" can ever destroy America.

But I do know that our failure to be humble before God WILL destroy America more surely than anything.

And if we believe that we must have political and military superiority before we can pray to God, then something is very, very wrong.

And if "bending a few freedoms" is necessary before we can confidently exercise our freedom to serve God, then it can't be said that we have any real freedom, at all.

"I pray to my God daily and ask him to please ensure that kooks like you don’t get into a position where you can control the systems that keep this country free. BTW, if bending a few freedoms helps keep me free..."

Whoa.

I was thinking ancient Greece, Jack. Sure they had some problems, like slavery, but the individual states were true democracies (as long as you're only counting today's equivalent of white men owning land)

.. but for a better example ...

How 'bout them injuns? Some tribes were very religious and it was not their fault Jesus was in Bethlehem and not Plymouth Rock. They were the ultimate democrats (the wisest and most respected became chief), respectful of each other and treated their neighbors well - they even helped the illegal immigrants when they showed up (bet they're sorry about that, huh? - proves that might makes right).

Actually, most small autonomous groups would be good MENTORS .. from Aborigines' to Zoolanders. They had their local act together, exhibited genuine morality, intelligence, industriousness and discipline with care for liberties and with law and order foremost in the minds of leaders. Children behaved properly and showed only the utmost respect for other people and property.

" ... countries that rolled over and let the Muslims take over .. "

Which ones you thinkin' bout, Rock? Be specific please.

“And if we believe that we must have political and military superiority before we can pray to God, then something is very, very wrong.” Who would you like to see in the superiority lead Mr. Knight, China, Russia, Iran?

Was America in 1787 the one with slavery and no female suffrage? Sorry to disturb your nostalgia, but you're a nitwit if you think things were better back then.

This letter is an elegant example of one the primary form of contemporary political commentary: morally self-congratulatory whinging. "Dear Heavenly Father, please forgive the pseudo-Christians who beat other people with your Holy Son's cross. Please help them be humble and righteous like me. And don't punish us good Christians for those others, even though America deserves it. Unless we [insert vague utopian gestures here]."

Please. On your way home today, look around and tell me that America's that bad. We have it so good that we invent problems to wimper about.

Hey guys! It's been a while. I agree with Nitpicker. This was a really good letter. There are a lot of things going on that are just plain wrong, regardless of your political persuasion. There are, unfortunately, a lot of issues today where it seems there are conservative and liberal versions of right and wrong. But, I think it's hard to argue with the points in this letter.

“We have become spiritually shallow, decadent in character, sloth in industry, ignorant of our sovereignty, apathetic in responsibility, careless with our liberties, and enslaved to our lusts.”

I mean, who can argue with that? Oh wait, this blog has plenty who will deny truth if it is stated by someone on the opposite side of the political spectrum. It looks like the radical right in here has a new voice in the "Rock". Great! We get to hear from another lame soldier in the imaginary army of the Lord. Fun times ahead! ;-)

Stevie D.

Ah, I see you're back; rehab didn't do much good I see...

Like I said, Brian (paraphrased in a failed attempt to make it more general): "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

"Who would you like to see in the superiority lead Mr. Knight, China, Russia, Iran?"

Rock,
This isn't about who is "on top of the heap" over everyone else so far as this world goes. It IS about whether we choose to fear God or to fear men.

This is going to rub you very harshly, I know, but it's going to be said anyway: we have turned America itself into an idol. We've come to worship America instead of *truly* worshiping God.

Don't believe me?

I've never understood why most churches in this country put an American flag in the sanctuary, practically on par with the cross. As if the apostle Paul had the believers in Corinth prop up a Roman standard emblazoned with S.P.Q.R. in the corner of their meeting place.

A flag is a symbol of temporal power and authority. It has no place in a house of worship... unless what the flag symbolizes IS a focus of worship.

And if it is, then there's a problem.

Jesus called His followers the "salt of the earth". Only a little salt will preserve the meat. But if the salt loses its saltiness, as Jesus said, then it is worthless. And it does nothing. The meat will deteriorate.

That's what Christianity in America has become: it's lost its saltiness. Because too many Christians don't realize the damage they have done by confusing lust for power with love of God.

And everything around us is rotting because of it.

If we live in America, we haven't been called to dominate over Iran or Iraq or China or Russia or North Korea, or any of those nations. God has placed us as stewards over our own house, and that we can put it in order. But we've so looked out on the world and either coveted it or been in fear of it, that we've let our own house fall into decay and disrepair.

So how about it: do we have the desire to take the American flag out of our churches?

Can we possibly pray to God without framing that prayer in reference to desiring earthly power or stature?

Can't you see that this carnal desire for earthly dominance is the reason why America has lost its honor and integrity? Why this country is no longer the good place that it once was?

It's our choice: we can once again put God first and let Him bring honor to this country... or we can try to seek it ourselves, in our own way, but ultimately stay on the same path to ruin that we are on now.

Quick historical point, Christopher: "Late 1787" was prior to the formation of The United States of America ... but I guess the "circa" saves the day as it covers any and all dates the writer may prescribe.

In any event, I confess I had not considered a "time" aspect when I asked for a mentor state. And your answer is apropos, as time was not specified. So, now that you've answered that question, can you provide a CURRENT nation that you feel would make a good role model for the United States?

Dear Jack,
Late 1787 would have been after the ratification of the Constitution. Which in my mind has been the most ideal - however imperfect it has been - form of government in world history.

One of the chief problems over the years is that we haven't done very well at adhering to that Constitution. But from 1787 on through a good part of the 1800s, I believe that we really were the closest to being the nation that the Founders intended us to be.

As for current nations to serve as our role model: I can't think of any. In my mind it's more or less a moot thing: we shouldn't be looking for examples to follow from other countries anyway.

Allow me to nitpick, Christopher, but we can probably agree that 1792 might be better.

The reason? The Bill of Rights was finally ratified in December 1791.

Where oh where are the atheists when you need 'em?

Oh, forgot...it's one who is miserable in America who is doing the preaching this time.
That's a free ticket. Carry on...

Well just to have you suck a lemon drop, Christopher .. one of the BIG (and arguably more important differences) between the USofA and ... let's say Iran .. is in America, Government is somewhat dis-associated with both God and the Church.

Yea coins say "In God We Trust" and you can find countless other examples, but the above is generally true.

CONTRAST

In Iran (& similar places), religion is not only integral to the government - it trumps government.

Consider that Iran's current president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, was vetted as being the true to the ideals of the Islamic revolution before he could even run for office.

The almost real boss is the Supreme Leader, who runs the military and is set in place by an "Assembly of Experts" - an electorate so to speak - all of whom are [at least traditionally] scholars of Islamic law. All also directly elected by public vote, btw.

FIRST BOTTOM LINE .. Ahmadinejad ... a.k.a. the man we love to hate .. is directly elected by the people and directly responsible to them .. but he is controlled by those holding primary responsibility to Islamic law.

==

SECOND BOTTOM LINE: Even though it can be fairly argued Iran is a Democracy - because the People use votes to place whom they want in power ... I prefer the former system, America, and therefore do not support putting God first and letting Him bring honor to this country.

Okay, we'll probably not be able to agree on a date certain, Christopher and Denzien. The one I had in my mind was June 21, 1788. On that date, New Hampshire became the 9th state to ratify the Constitution. With this state's signing, the Constitution became legal.

Be that as it may, I cannot think of any current nation after which we should pattern ourselves either. But probably for a different reason: I think we have the best pattern that there is.

Can it be improved? Certainly, it can. Is this best accomplished by denigrating our nation and ourselves at any and every opportunity? I think not.

That, Christopher and Yvonne, is where you and I differ significantly. It's not difficult to point out things wrong with the U. S., as you have shown. It's much more constructive, however, to put forward positive solutions.

So, shall we try to lift up our nation? Or shall we continue to query, "Does America deserve to survive?"

" ... countries that rolled over and let the Muslims take over .. "

Which ones you thinkin' bout, Rock? Be specific please.

YO .. ROCKY ..

... agree with your last post, Jack .. but do hope your personal contributions extend beyond grammer and spelling corrections .. be nice to see some examples in here ..

Lift up our nation, first steps - an original post:

Learn to read. Find multiple sources and differing opinions, remembering that even history has different sides.

Learn to write. Communicate your thoughts with others.

Learn to listen. Hear the communications of others.

Learn to think. The communications of others may or may not be accurate. There might even be deceptions in what they say.

Understand Gray. It really is possible to have multiple correct answers - in fact most solutions are not unique.

Learn Humility. The more sure you are, the more likely you are to be wrong.

Help Others. This is actually a selfish thing to do; you understand once you do it.

Help Yourself. If you're not in a good place, it is much harder to help others.

Smile, regardless. This is also a selfish thing to do; you understand once you do it.

Vote.
Write your Congress & the Adminstration.
Talk to your Mayor & Councilmen.
Turn off the TV.
Dance.
Love your wife.
Beat your kids.
Put up with you neighbors.
Smile for your inlaws.
Call your friends.
Clean your dog's mess
Stop your dog from barking after 10 pm.
Get a good education.
Be all you can be.
Work to support you and yours.
Hold the door for old folk.

The last thing I'm advocating is a theocracy, like in Iran.

But if the desire to seek out that law which is higher than man is not in the heart of a nation's people, then what is left for that nation... but a slide into decay and corruption?

Let me put it this way: I do not trust human nature. On its own, it is hopeless. Even if one does not believe in God, there has to be at least the *idea* of God that establishes the ideals that a culture aspires to adhere to. That works in the matter of the individual, too. Or else there is nothing.

Over the past several decades, and probably longer, two things have happened regarding this country's people's relationship with God. The "conservatives" will decry how the "liberals" have forced God out of government and schools and so forth. But many of those very "conservatives" have done something far worse: they've attempted to turn God into something they can use for their own gain. I've heard more than one minister claim that it's a good Christian's duty to vote straight Republican.

See what's going on? We either ignore our need for God. Or we twist Him into a tool or a weapon. One way or another, too many people in this country have tried to define God instead of letting God define them.

And our stagnancy and decline is the inevitable result of that.

"So, shall we try to lift up our nation? Or shall we continue to query, 'Does America deserve to survive?'"

Well, Christopher Knight, I believe I now have your answer to that question.

As unbelievable as this will seem, (I'm struggling to believe it myself, as I write) I far prefer James D. Rockefeller's answers!

... like I said, Jack:

You don't know James.

And you, James, don't know JACK!

(HAD to do it, man ... just HAD to do it. It was way too perfect a pitch)!

SHAZAM!

"I've heard more than one minister claim that it's a good Christian's duty to vote straight Republican."

And like good lemmings they pull the "R" lever non?

I've never read posts from such a negative individual in my years of reading this blog. All cloaked with a self absorbed holier than thou religious righteousness.

You paint a broad brush Christopher. Everyone in the US of A is doomed and nondeserving of God's grace, yet no mention of the rest of the world.

Who the hell are you to assume the moral status of all of your fellow Americans?

As a staunch conservative, I do agree there is plenty of debauchery in this country, pop culture contributes significantly to it. However, I would prefer hearing about the BS of Brittney Spears, Anna Nicole Smith, Snoop Dog, etc. ANYDAY before having my govt. decide what religion I may espouse.

Christopher, why don't you worry about stewardship of YOUR own house, not mine or others? If I want to buy a plasma TV it is no business of yours to call me a materialist, yada, yada, and make generalizations about my relationship with God.

I'm not sure if you have travelled outside of this country. If so, please let me know. I've travelled to many countries and lived in a socialist country, France. While attending church, the vast majority of attendees are 70+ years old. America, I see, is a very religious country that offers it's citizens the FREEDOM to worship as they see fit.

Christopher, is this LTE intended to drive traffic to your blog? Lord knows it needs it, lotsa goose eggs.

It's a good thing this dude is full of doom and gloom. Imagine the flack he would be taking from the atheists and agnostics over his mention of his "fellow Christians" if he was of good cheer and upbeat about the future. Capn' Planet and Brian Harper would be swarming him like flies on a pile of ----.

I may be wrong, but I don't believe I've read one negative comment from the usual suspects who ordinarily won't let the mention of Christians pass without some disparaging remarks.

Be interesting see how long this trend holds when someone writes a lte about religion and reveals the fact that he/she is a republican and is upbeat about the country we live in.

neocon,
You are the perfect example of what I'm talking about.

I've seen you do nothing but insult and despise people because of their political beliefs. In your narrow worldview, there are only "liberals" and "conservatives". And that's the way you like it.

I'm going to postulate that you get a sense of power and a rush of adrenaline from this mindset. That's why you defend it so. That's also why you perceive anyone who challenges it as a threat to you.

What, exactly, has your hatred of "liberals" gotten you that's of positive and lasting value?

Dan,
Are we talking about "religion" with God, or *relationship* with God?

It's altogether possible to go to church and say the prayers and read the Bible... and still not get any closer to God. You have to *want* that first.

All I'm really saying... all I've been saying throughout all of this... is that because we *haven't* wanted to pursue that moral authority which is higher than man, this country has gone into stagnation and decay.

You can't deny that. And nobody can spin that in a way that makes "them" look good either. And we'd better start owning up to it, if there's to be an America worth passing down to our children.

JDR, great lists, both of them. As a thought experiment, how many of the--what, 50?--people you talked with yesterday basically follow your lists? I'd put my number pretty high. There will always be totally corrupt people like Dan who buy plasma TVs instead of carbon credits (which I understand are a form of global air conditioning), but most Americans I know are decent people. I certainly can't say that for Belgians or Iranians.

Also, it's "grammar," not "grammer." ;>

Jack, I like the idea of a mentor nation. We could meet regularly for counseling sessions, do team-building exercises (like walking on hot coals together), and think "outside the box." I nominate: TEXAS.

"In your narrow worldview, there are only "liberals" and "conservatives". And that's the way you like it."

A tad judgemental toward someone who you have never met I'd say. But for someone who knows without a doubt what is wrong with the entire country, it's understandable.

I just made an observation that you were getting a pass from the atheists because your doom and gloom outlook fits their template of what one of the good guys sounds like.

If you had happened to hint that perhaps you thought some 'conservative' (sp?) had at one time, may have, just MAY HAVE, had a good plan for the country, you would have been chewed up and spit out by now by these holier than thou atheists that are giving you a free ride here.

One more thing: When will I see you tell one of our left leaning blogers that they have a 'narrow worldview'?

I'll be waiting...

"One more thing: When will I see you tell one of our left leaning blogers that they have a 'narrow worldview'?"

There are no "left leaning bloggers" that you speak of.

There are no "right leaning bloggers" either, even though you would claim to be one.

There *are* people who tend to use labels like that because it's how they achieve a sense of power.

In that regard, you are no different than Nancy Pelosi.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...

Easy to see why you "blog" has no takers.

'Easy to see why you "blog" has no takers.'

Easy to see why someone calling himself 'neocon' is a total loser. Knight pwned your rear end.

No, no...there are no left leaning bloggers HERE.

pwned?

'pwned'...where did I put that de-coder ring?

Jack,

I thought I was quite clear about solutions in my post. Take responsibility for rearing your children, take responsibility for yourself, vote out the corrupt politicians and do something positive for your country. Not once did I even insinuate America should look elsewhere for a role-model. What I did do was acknowledge we have many cancers in our nation that will cause America's death if everyone ignores those cancers.

If you don't agree, fine. We don't have to agree. I, however, prefer to deal with reality as I see it. And I see America as having some serious health issues.

Although I did not bring God into the conversation, I agree with Christopher re America's pre-occupation with acquisition of power, control and material wealth at the expense of God. We are clearly told in the word of God that we cannot serve two masters. It is my humble opinion that much of America has chosen the earthly masters. I also agree this is one of our cancers.

I mentioned in my letter how we are "ignorant of our sovereignty". In case anyone doesn't understand what that means...

Confirmation is coming out right now that Bob Clark - the director of A Christmas Story and several other movies - and his son were killed the other night by a drunk driver who not only had 3 times the blood alcohol limit, but was an illegal alien.

This seems to be happening a lot lately. Because our "leaders" have sold out and refuse to do anything about illegal immigration.

"War on terror"? What a joke. That could be anyone coming across our border with Mexico.

Yet not only do George W. Bush and most of Congress refuse to do anything to bolster border security, but they're also hellbent on granting amnesty to the illegals already here.

You want tangible evidence that America is dying? Look no further than our southern border and who is coming across it. How can anyone possibly claim that "all is well" with this country if we can't keep strong national borders?

No, Yvonne, you did not insinuate that America should look elsewhere for a role model. But after your morose, fatalistic and funereal post, I figured you MUST know of a better place. So I just asked the question.

May I quote myself, here? Thank you, thank you very much:

"I cannot think of any current nation after which we should pattern ourselves either. ... (because) I think we have the best pattern that there is.

Can it be improved? Certainly, it can. Is this best accomplished by denigrating our nation and ourselves at any and every opportunity? I think not.

That, ... Yvonne, is where you and I differ significantly. It's not difficult to point out things wrong with the U. S., as you have shown.

So, shall we try to lift up our nation?"

Or shall we just moan about all the "many cancers in our nation that will cause America's death ..." and despair for its very survival?

You say, "I, however, prefer to deal with reality as I see it."

Perception (or how one sees it) IS reality to the perceiver, Yvonne. I am truly sorry for how you see it because, for you, that IS reality.

Jack,
It's not hatred of something, or despair for it, to call attention to what is wrong, if that's what it takes to start making things right again.

If you had a friend who was destroying himself with heroin, or alcohol, could it really be said that you had real love for your friend if you didn't do something to make him stop and clean up his act? Or would you let him keep going until it completely destroyed him?

This country, the vast part of it, is fixated on materialism and power. It's led too many of us to have little or no respect for our fellow man: we now look for excuses to hate one another ("the other guy" being in a different political party seems to be the most popular reason to hate around here). And in failing to humble ourselves before God, we have put ourselves into the bondage of other men.

Don't believe me on that last one? How many people here have shown that they're incapable or unwilling or uncomfortable with thinking outside the "two-party system"?

Is believing that you can only choose the lesser of two evils really true freedom?

No, it's not that some of us are "moaning about the many cancers" afflicting this nation. But we are determined to do our best to show everyone where the cure is.

Christopher, your 8:53 post, re, illegals, is the first one that has made any sense to me.

However these two statements seem to contradict:

"You want tangible evidence that America is dying? Look no further than our southern border and who is coming across it." 8:53

"It's led too many of us to have little or no respect for our fellow man: we now look for excuses to hate one another" 10:41

It seems you would have empathy for your fellow man, even illegals.

Neo, did you figure out what a "pwned" is?

"Pwned" is teenage internet lingo for "owned" or "destroyed." As in, "he totally owned you in the last post, dude."

Dan, you're right. So much for the humility, righteousness, and Christian charity. America is apparently doomed because of "ignorance of sovereignty" and Mexicans. The message seems to be, humble yourself before God and keep the d---ed Mexicans on the other side of the Rio Grande.

In reviewing my posts above, Christopher Knight, I find that neither the word "hate" nor the concept of "hatred of something" appears anywhere.

Yet your posts are riddled with both the actual word and the presumption thereof.

The more I read of your hypotheses, Christopher Knight, the more eerie is my sense of deja vu.

There once was an auger, one Mr. Jones, late of Indiana, California and Guyana, who instilled in his followers the same sort of foreboding that you seem to profess. Ultimately, he led his flock away from the overbearing evil that was the United States. They created a nirvana, free from the "hatred" that existed among the American people ....

But, perhaps you have already heard his story and can flesh out the details of how things ultimately went for him and his flock, hmmm?

"Teenage internet lingo"...

Like, wow. Like, you know. Like it makes perfect sense now.

"It seems you would have empathy for your fellow man, even illegals."

Taken to the extreme, you are suggesting socialism. Which to the best of my knowledge has only ever worked in two situations throughout recorded history: the New Testament church as described in the Book of Acts, and marriage between husband and wife.

Part of being a good neighbor means not only looking after your own house, it's also about respecting the boundary between you and the person next door. Be charitable? Yes. Take up most of his burden as your own? Not you or anyone else should be expected to do that.

If we want to do the right thing by Mexico, we should significantly strengthen our southern border and stop the influx of illegals. Send them back to where they belong. Tell them that we can't guarantee them a better life here. That it's not our responsibility to do that anyway. Tell them that they have to clean up their own mess, just as we have to clean up ours.

What would you rather we do: solve Mexico's problems for them, or give them the personal sense of satisfaction in knowing that they did start taking responsibility for themselves?

The fact of the matter is, the illegal immigration problem is straining our financial infrastructure to the breaking point, especially in areas like medical care. In a perfect world maybe we *could* take care of them and the rest of the world... but if you know of anyplace that's ever been able to do that, I would appreciate it if you would tell me, because I would like to study how they pulled it off. But right now that's not us and we shouldn't be expected to act as if we were.

Jack,

Yes, you and I differ greatly as to what constitutes moaning, reality and solutions. Seems your solution is to ignore the white elephant in the middle of the living room and hope it will go away on it's own. Or as suggested in another post, we should not do what we can to get the elephant into it's proper place but rather we should "lift it up" for being so clever as to find it's way into the living room.

Personal responsibility has always been and will always be a great "fixer" or solution for me. If you had rather take responsibility for the foolish ways of others so as to "lift them up" and not point out they are bleeding to death from an internal source, OK by me. If you wish to ignore or placate rather than acknowledge America has serious problems, what real contribution have you made toward her recovery?

The first step in any recovery program is to acknowledge the problem (that brought one to the program). If that first step is missing, how do you propose to take the second, the third, the fourth and on and on? You remind me of someone who says "There, there. Everything will be alright." without having a clue what caused one's upset.

In my 61 years I have seen our great nation raped by corruption, apathy, ungodliness, power-grabbing control freaks, all-about-me ladder climbers and undisciplined, irresponsible, idol-worshiping (whatever form or shape that idol is) people. And regardless of your condemnation of me, I will not be silent about this destruction anymore.

Call it what you want, Jack. I see this country without rose-colored glasses. I see the wanton disregard for life, for God, for unselfish motivation. I see all the cancers and I weep. I want a better world for my grandchildren.

So if I offend you with my bluntness, my observations, my crudeness or my opinions, you are the one with the problem. Evil will not simply go away on it's own. Nor will it go away simply by ignoring the root causes of it. You have to bring evil into the light where it can't hide, expose it for what it is. Then, and only then can we begin to heal from it.

Again, in my humble opinion, healing begins with treatment. But without acknowledgment of an illness, one does not seek treatment.

Illegal immigrants cost the United States $397 billion in 2004.

Over the next ten years, the cost to taxpayers to support illegal immigration will be about $3.9 TRILLION.

Source: The Heritage Foundation
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/sr12.cfm

Bear in mind that in 2004 the combined expenditure of local, state and federal government was $2.3 trillion. So about one-sixth of that went to support people who aren't supposed to even be here.

This rate of expenditure is only going to soar alongside the increasing influx of illegals.

Now, somebody tell me how this is supposed to be "Christian", "charitable", and "good for America".

Yvonne, personal responsibility IS INDEED the great fixer. I could not agree with you MORE on that point.

But you then imply that I do not "acknowledge the problem(s)" that exist in the United States. At the risk of boring those who actually read what I wrote, may I YET AGAIN quote myself? Thank you ... thank you very much:

"Can it (the United States) be improved? CERTAINLY, IT CAN. Is this best accomplished by denigrating our nation and ourselves at any and every opportunity? I think not."

My point is apparently lost on you, but I'll try one final time:

You have, no doubt, heard the ol' query, "Is the glass half full or is it half empty?". Let's take this a step further and suppose you and I see the glass EXACTLY the same ... "half", we'll call it, for lack of a better term. So how do we differ?

You, Yvonne, see the glass in the middle of the Mojave Desert, its essence being evaporated by the mid-day sun. Whereas, I see the glass forest glade, its vitality being replenished by a spring.

Rose colored glasses? Perhaps so. But highly focused glasses that look for the great things about America and try to enhance them, rather than dully seeing only the problems and living life in the doldrums.

First off, it is not up to you to decide what I see, feel or think. I am not black or white but rather shades of gray. Apparently you feel it is OK to denigrate people who do not agree with your particular philosophy. However, it's not.

How did you come to assume I thought America was a lost cause? Why assume I only look for the negative? I, at the risk of repeating myself, posted what I thought were some of the cancers in our nation. I also included some solutions: parent your children, take some personal responsibility, vote out corrupt politician, quit accepting corruption as the norm, do something for your country, stop putting material wealth and a desire for power before God.

Which of these solution did you have issue with and why? Apparently (from your subsequent posts) you are clueless with regards to my point.

What are you doing to help mend America, Jack?

Okay, Yvonne. You win.

But to answer your questions, just re-read your first post (April 4, 3:57 AM) above. Your concluding sentence, "A pretty grim thought but reality based" addresses your question, "Why assume I only look for the negative?" When one sees reality as pretty grim ... well, draw your own conclusion.

I have no issue with any of your solutions. I think they are all valid. What made you think I DID have issues with them? Did I even once say you are wrong about your solutions? If so, it was inadvertent and I retract it. But show it to me ....

Finally, you say, "I am not black or white but rather shades of gray." Yvonne, I cannot think of any more apropos color than GRAY to paint the world as seen from your perspective. And I'm certain I'll never convince you otherwise.

I hope things will improve for you. And with that, I bid you adieu!

Jack,

I did not realize I had entered a contest. I thought I had entered a dialogue. Thank you for the correcting me.

You have twisted my words and meaning to suit your own agenda. I never said I thought reality was grim. I said the thought of America dying was grim but the assessment (that she was dying) was based on reality.

You even took my statement that was meant to say I was not a concrete person, that I could see an issue from several angles, and tried to make it into a negative statement. From my perspective(Since you seem hell-bent on telling me what you think my perspective is, I'll share what it actually is.) it is a positive thing to be able to see issues in shades of gray rather than be locked into a concrete mindset. Seems that you are the one locked in negativity.

Why don't you try reading what people say WITHOUT assumptions, agendas and a closed mind?

Mexicans cost us $397 billion? Think of all the plasma TVs and artillery we could buy with that! Any nation stupid enough to spend that kind of dough on welfare for Mexicans doesn't deserve to survive. Punish us, O God!!

I think God would certainly see how a sovereign nations wouldn't want to waste a bunch of money on foreigners. I think Jesus said something about that in Deuteronomy or somewhere.

"I think God would certainly see how a sovereign nations wouldn't want to waste a bunch of money on foreigners. I think Jesus said something about that in Deuteronomy or somewhere."

This is still advocating socialism. Which has never worked in the history of modern man. Blame it on human nature for it always failing miserably.

Jesus never preached socialism. Socialism and capitalism for that matter are systems fixated on money, and Jesus came to teach us about things above and beyond the realm of money. He taught about conditions of the human heart: something that no economic philosophy can rectify.

Seeing neocon and JackArmstrong and Brian444 take on Mr. Knight has been like watching a squirrel take on an oncoming freight train. The writer has a very deep and wise mind and these people can not compete one bit with it.

The Blunt Truth,

Excellent analogy.

So there you have it, Christopher Knight. The Blunt Truth has moved, his motion has been seconded and it has carried. I am undone.

Any further discussion with you is pointless, any question ... superfluous, any point of view not in complete lock-step ... absurd.

Congratulations, Christopher Knight. Hats off to ya.

Jack,
You're assuming that this is an "I'm better than you" thing. When it's not. I've never perceived it as such anyway.

That was one of the things I originally wrote about in this letter: how we need to get away from this supposed need to destroy other people. It's tearing this country apart.

Is it possible to have a rich, meaningful, constructive and *challenging* dialogue without resorting to snide comments and low-blows?

I suppose it IS possible, Christopher Knight. Though in this case, the bell has been rung by The Blunt Truth. The time for debate is over. Judgment has been rendered. And you have been declared the "freight train" and I the "squirrel."

By the way, I don't see it as "an 'I'm better than you' thing." It's more like "a freight train is mightier than a squirrel" thing. It's no contest. (In fact, by this very posting, I'm foolishly inviting utter annihilation).

So just enjoy your success, Christopher Knight. Again, my hat's off to ya.

Ciao.

There's no "success" here. But for what it's worth, I would certainly look forward to having a dialogue with you again, Jack.

Take care, God bless, and have a good Easter.

"Watching a squirrel take on a freight train"... LOL

More lingo from teenage chatrooms? LOL

A Happy Easter to you as well, Christopher Knight.

It is doubtful that we will have further dialog, however. For we squirrels are not entirely bereft of intelligence. In fact, on one list, we were ranked tenth among all animals ... just after squids. (That's not a very surprising position, for no one, and I mean NO ONE, has ever seen a squad of squids challenging freight trains, eh? But I digress.) In any event, we squirrels have now learned that when a freight train is approaching, we should simply grab our nuts and scamper aside.

This, of course, exposes a tiny flaw in The Blunt Truth's "excellent analogy." The freight train is rendered totally impotent in doing harm to the squirrel by the squirrel's ability to simply move a few feet to either side of the track. For all its great mass and speed, the freight becomes nothing more than a blur of sound and fury, unable to impact the more flexible squirrel at all.

In any event, I wish you well, Christopher Knight. I hope you will find the Golden Egg this morning and will be able to extract at least a scintilla of enjoyment from that success.

Arrivederci.