News-Record.com

Lionel,
A formal or otherwise apology will not help the matter. There is no desire for an apology from blacks. What they want is money as some sort of means to get past this great harm to their ego.

I feel I am owed something too. My family suffered from the Depression. I believe the depression was caused by our government and thus I am entitled to a monetary payment to offset the troubles of my parents.

That sounds feeble doesnt it. In reality, no one owes anyone anything. Sometimes stuff just happens poorly. Some of us have been fired from jobs without good cause. Some of us have been sick and others of us have lost loved ones in battle. To single out the current black as being worthy of a payback is grossly wrong. When will these people learn to just go on with their lives?

Oh, my family never owned any slaves nor did we own any plantations. Perhaps I am owed an apology for not being able to afford these things.

Lets get over this and learn to live together. We have made great strides here and the work is ever improving.

So what if you get a few bureaucrats to draw up a 'formal appology' and stand on the steps of the capitol and read it? Would this make the average black person feel better? Would it make Al and Jesse fold their tent and finally declare the civil war over? I doubt it.

Slavery is still an issue because the Reverend Jesses and the Reverend Als of the country are getting filthy rich milking it.

Pitiful analogy. It should go more like this:

My great great great grandfathers house was broken into by the next door neighbor. Now I am still traumatized because of what someone who died long before I was born did. So I go blame the neighbors great great great grandson, who wasn't born before this "burglary" took place.

Even though no one has broken into MY house, I need an apology from the great great great grandson for what dead people did long before either he or I were born.

With said apology, life will all of the sudden be worth living.

Makes sense to me.

One lesson I learned years ago that has served me well is this:

Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you choose to react to it.

If you choose to remain resentful over something that ended so many years ago, then that is your problem and your choice. How can you build a better future if you choose to remain mired in the past?

i'll apologize if they'll turn down those car stereos.

i'll apologize if they'll admit they'd have some money if they'd quit spending so much of it to look white.

i'll apologize when they admit this generation had nothing to do with dragging them from the motherland.

i'll apologize if they'll try really hard not to cut in front of me (every time) at the drive-thru at bojangles.

i'll apologize when they no longer receive any help from taxpayers.

until then... no way.

Dan,

It was my great great grandpappy that broke into your great great great grandfathers house. He was young and foolish at the time and learned from the experience. I humbly abase myself before you and beg your forgiveness.

I hope this puts that unpleasantness behind us and we can go on with our lives.

Holy crap, buckyreeds! Stereotype much?

"Stereotype much?"

About as much as expecting an apology from a group of people just because they are white.

What do you imagine is the percentage of white folks walking around today who are actually direct descendents of slave owners?

I'd be okay with an apology from our government as long as it came with the ending of all affirmative action, welfare handouts to people capable of working, and all other guilt-induced payouts.

To apologize to the people in modern times for the tragedy of what happened in the past is a disservice to the folks who truly suffered at slave owners hands.

To take away from me and other taxpayers to give to people who have no right to my money is a disservice to me.

"Breaking the link between inferiority and black skin" isn't going to happen with an apology. That is only going to happen through the continual effort of the black population.

What should really happen, in my opinion, is that the black people of today should be thanking their forefathers for the sacrifice they made as slaves so that their descendents could now live in the most prosperous country in the world. They can't even begin to understand how much better they are today, (even the poorest black child) than they would be if their ancestors had not made that sacrifice.

You know what is going to be really pitiful?

When in a few years the Mexican population has advanced to a higher standard of living in this country than blacks. And it's going to be because the Mexican population as a whole pulled themselves up from where they started while a significant percentage of blacks continued to wallow in blame, resentment, and a feeling of entitlement.

This brings up an interesting question (at least to me).

Since it was common practice for slave owners to father children with slaves & relatively few whites owned slaves blacks probably statistically have about as many slave owners as ancestors as whites.

So do they owe themselves an apology?

Perhaps they should lead the way.

I have to hand it to you, nitpicker! To stand up and spell it out that precisely in today's atmosphere of "political correctness gone wild" takes moral character and courage.

Well done! Bravo! Carry on, sir, carry on!

"About as much as expecting an apology from a group of people just because they are white."

Look, nitpicker- I pretty much agree with you (and Bill Cosby, for that matter). And, for the record, I don't think a formal apology is a good thing, nor would it do a whole lot of good.

The gist of my post was that all black people don't bump their car stereos while they cut in line to spend their welfare checks (or at least what they have left over from spending all that cash trying to "look white") at Bojangles.

You see where I'm coming from?

Certainly not all the founding fathers were slave owners, but one of the brightest lights in the American nation-building certainly was. There's no doubt the labor of Thomas Jefferson's slaves freed him to perform the enlightened duties of a Constitutional constructionist. The irony is without the denial of freedom to black slaves, American freedoms themselves would not have been as well defined or possibly as enduring.

However, the case for reparations is weak, for legal and literal reasons.

Habeus Corpus establishes the legal basis for the remediation of false imprisonment or false servitude, but does not allow for the compensation of relatives or descendants unless real property was affected. To put a value on the loss of family equity is to assume that equity would have been earned and would have remained untouched and unaffected throughout the generations since slavery- an impossibility.

The literal reason assumes reparations are already being offered, in the forms of Affirmative Action, minority-focused loan and business practices and the societal acceptance of so-called "reverse racism", examples of which include the Black Press, Black History Month, Black Entertainment Television, the NAACP, etc.

Many African Americans have used this leverage to rebalance the playing field, earning well-deserved positions of economic, social and political power unenvisioned even 30 years ago. The very face of the American State is black: Condoleezza Rice.

I believe states that sanctioned slavery should apologize for their actions, but should also deliver a stark word of warning: "The winds have changed. Reset your sails and surge forward, or they'll blow right by you, leaving you right where you are."

First, let's reread what Mr Roberts wrote and note that he made no mention of reparations. Everything in this blog about reparations is based on assumptions by what I take to be white conservatives and reactionaries. Criticize the counterpoint, not your own mindset.
Second, one legal factor that everyone seems to be missing is that there is a clear distinction between individuals (people) and governments. The latter are continuing legal entities (someone probably can find the more exact legal term, but these words convey the concept) that know no generations: The states of NC, GA, and VA do not die in a legal sense, and their governments today are fully bound by prior debts and laws. Otherwise, we'd have to reinvent the governmental wheel after every election, and no lending or insurance institution would ever willingly do business with a government.
Therefore governments, as opposed to people, can apologize for past wrongs because the government today is just as responsible for those wrongs as it is for legal continuity and debts. When representatives vote for or against such apologies, they are not voting as individuals to accept personal responsibility, but as members of government to accept governmental responsibility.
What good does it do? Ask Japan's Prime Minister. Ask the German Bundestag which has enacted laws that let corporations accept responsibility for their predecessors' appropriating Jewish property in the late 1930s. Ask members of Congress every time they have to consider a bill relating to Native Americans. Ask the Cubans who are still waiting to go back to their homes and businesses.
We (our governments) do it because it's the right thing to do. Actions or neglect by individuals aside, a grave moral injustice was done by our governments, a collective sin committed. People who should have been able to depend on those governments to protect their inalienable rights were deprived of those rights by laws, court rulings, and enforcement procedures that were instituted by government representatives executing the will of the majority.
Mr Roberts notes quite well the nature of the personal problem. Very few people held in bondage ever received any of the fruits of their labor. The shelter, clothing, and food they got was only the minimum necessary to ensure the continuance of their labor. When their bondage was ended, they received no recompense - no tools, seeds, animals, land, or shelter by due process of law.
As Prag writes, the recompense has come late and in a form that many - but perhaps not most - of their descendants can take advantage of - though I would say that Prag's examples are not nearly as well chosen as more careful reflection would allow.
Prag's warning is also well founded. Today might not be the proper day, but the time will soon come when the excuses have to stop. That said, we also have to realize that 100% of no ethnic group is composed of successful, socially responsible, law-abiding individuals, that we cannot continue to judge the failures of some blacks by one standard and the failures of some whites (the greater number of individuals), Latinos, or whatevers by another, more lenient, standard.

North Carolina Senate's 'Expression of Regret':

http://www.news-record.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070405/NEWSREC0101/70405017

Wonder when Bush will apologize for what Clinton did?

Probably after President Hillary apoligizes for what Bush did. (;-}

An interesting point, 2fer, regarding the fact that governments (states) are continuing legal entities that know no generations as they do not die in a legal sense.

But let us SUPPOSE, for the sake of argument, that people (in this case, slave owners) were ALSO continuing legal entities that knew no generations and that did not die. After all, it was the owners, NOT the states, that owned slaves.

Article 1, Sections 9 & 10 of the Constitution proscribe the passing of ex post facto laws by the federal government and by the states. As slave ownership was legal at the time, holding a slave owner "fully bound by prior debts and laws" would be a violation of the Constitution.

An apology may not even be a "legal" concept, but having applied legal status to this question as you have, it seems to me that to apologize would fall into the same category as "paying one's debt to society by fine or incarceration" when one did not, in fact, break the existing law.

"But there should be some attempt at breaking the link between inferiority and black skin"

They might want to look at themselves to break that link. In 2005 Hispanic median income was over $5,000 higher than for Blacks.

United Imperial State of America Manifesto

The time has come for change. It is time we as a people stood up to
the corruption in the government and call for a vote of No Confidence
in their leadership. Our elected officials have become too self-
aware, too self-serving instead of serving the public. The government
is trying to legislate almost every aspect of our personal lives and
it has no right to do so. It is time we as a people, as a society
stand up to the petty and self-serving views of the illogical
minority. Self-serving agencies like the ACLU and its Political
Correctness mind police have been running amok and unchallenged for
far too long; it is time to put them out of their misery. It is time
the People took back control. It is time we reform ourselves into a
new United Imperial State of America!
It is time for the lazy and sloth-like couch potatoes to get up off
their butt-brains and get to work. Stop leeching off the welfare
system, which does nothing to improve the well-being of our citizens
but only enables them to wallow in their pool of self-pity and self-
victimized state of mind. Get a job you freaking slobs!
It is time to sweep out the trash of the foreign vermin who take our
jobs, subvert our traditions and ways of life all the while leeching
off of our welfare system and human services without giving anything
back in return. Too many outsiders are dictating our way of life. It
is time to tell those foreign peoples who want to suppress our
values, traditions and culture yet demand that we do things their way
so they don't feel left out or offended to go back where they came
from. This is our country, not theirs; if you don't like how we do
things or our way of life, PLEASE LEAVE! They should be thankful to
live in a country that does not hunt them down in the middle of the
night and kidnap their husbands, wives or children to torture, rape
or kill them.
It is time to stop trying to bring peace to the barbaric nations of
the world and time to let them fight it out. Let them kill each other
off the face of the planet! It is time to step on the heads of the
venomous terrorist snakes out there and cut them off! The fittest
shall survive yet the unfit may live!
If the pathetic life forms of the world want the Grand Army of the
UISA to defend them from their enemies, they must join us or become
OUR enemies. It is time for our Grand Army to be allowed to do its
job and time for the delusional left wing ex-patriots to join the
effort or be dealt with; you are either part of the solution or part
of the problem!
Personal sacrifice of small petty civil liberties is a must in these
dangerous times for the safety and security of all our native
citizens. Foreigners who are in our great country illegally must be
deported back to where they came from unless they join our society.
In order to maintain our safety it is necessary to protect our
borders from hostile invasion, therefore it will be a duty of every
UISA citizen to report any and all illegal foreign people who don't
belong here!
We MUST protect ourselves from those who would cause us harm! It is
time to do what must be done!

Izzat you, Herr Schickelgruber?

To Buckyreeds:

I debated whether or not to respond to the drivel that you posted and my common sense left me and I decided to do it. You sir, are not very bright. I would try to appeal to your sense of logic, but, that appears to have taken leave from you. So, the next time that I blast my stereo as I weave my way through the Bojangles parking lot, dashing in front of you at the drive through window, while hoping with baited breath that they cash my reparation/welfare check so that I might get a bucket of chicken (white meat of course), I will be sure to leave some chicken bones, food stamps and watermelon rinds in the parking lot, so that I can continue to perpetuate the image that you have of lazy, shiftless and morally bankrupt (insert n word here)s.

Apology accepted Rufus, may your great great great grandpappy rest in peace.

My great great great grandpa shoulda had a better safe!

I will say this letter isn't representative of all black people by any means. I encounter many hard working professional black people all the time with my job. Ditto for my next door neighbors, very fine people, hard working with very smart children.

I just have a problem with those like Mr. Roberts who wallow in the past and blame their inadequacies on a horrible epoch in our nation's history that occurred 150 years ago.

Sure they retort with the fact that blacks had separate water fountains, etc. a mere 40 years ago. True, and many are still alive today who went through that period. But please folks, look at today and tomorrow. My kids play with the black kids next door all the time have never made any mention whatsoever about their skin being a different color.

I have a huge problem with an apology. Nobody alive today was a slave nor a slave owner. Many Americans fought to help free and hide run away slaves. My aunt traced our family tree a few years back and we learned that our ancestors actually played an intricate role in helping to free slaves.

Further, an apology I fear, opens up this country to endless lawsuits tying up the court systems for years to come.

I am not negating the fact that blacks (I don't use the term African Americans)have been treated unfairly...I am also not negating the fact that they perhaps still are being treated unfairly in some cases. But in this world of PC, white people are also now being treated unfairly by black people.

I don't think an apology to gays for how they are currently being treated helps to solve anything either.

We all have to learn a couple of things:

1- equal rights for all, special rights for none. Its the only thing that makes sense.

2- humor to deter tension between races does wonders. I am not talking mean spirited stuff...I mean silly stuff. something like:

"Tyrone, how come all black guys wear their pants sagging so low?"

"I don't know Billy Bob, probably the same reason all white women have breast implants."

JA, the wikipedia entry (which I use just for convenience, not certitude) on "ex post facto law" says:
"An ex post facto law (from the Latin for "from something done afterward") or retroactive law, is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences of acts committed or the legal status of facts and relationships that existed prior to the enactment of the law. In reference to criminal law, it may criminalize actions that were legal when committed; or to aggravate a crime by bringing it into a more severe category than it was at the time it was committed; or to change or increase the punishment prescribed for a crime, such as by adding new penalties or extending terms; or to alter the rules of evidence in order to make conviction for a crime more likely than it would have been at the time of the action for which a defendant is prosecuted. Conversely, an ex post facto law may decriminalize certain acts or alleviate possible punishments (for example by replacing the death sentence with life-long imprisonment) retroactively."

I don't see how a legislative apology changes the legal consequences of slavery and Jim Crow laws, criminalizes past legal acts (current enslavement is obviously illegal), or changes or increases the punishment for acts, nor does it decriminalize past criminal acts like rebellions by enslaved peoples, however morally justified they were.
I think you are trying to make a good point that needs to be kept in the mix to avoid absurdities like reparations, but it is not a valid objection to an apology by a state government.

A few still treated unfairly? Read today's commentary by Clarence Page. Page and Pitts have no trouble coming up with examples like this, and they don't have to go back and reuse the same old examples, tote out the same old white authority figure stereotypes, from one commentary to the next.
America does still have a race problem, and it doesn't take much more than reading through LTEs and blog postings on any of G'boro's black leaders or any topic relating to race to see the vestiges of white racism boil over the top
Are some blacks racists, too? Who thinks that any human is perfect and free of these feelings? That, however, doesn't excuse my failures or yours, and that's all this charge is, an excuse that one person's ignorance and bigotry is ok because someone else is also ignorant and bigoted. This is about the dumbest reason there is.

Well, well what a nasty mob we have here. This type of racism is what perpetuates ignorance and hate. Comments made here sickens me and those who say them sickens me more.

With your ignorance being so prevalent it is not worth my time to really debate this issue with you. What I will add is the fact that you would even make comments to suggest that they should just move on is completely absurb. We don't have to go back to slavery to see the inequality perpertrated on blacks, look on your jobs, look in your neighborhoods, hell look in your family.

This is what is going on TODAY. All whites live with white privilege and use it for everything and against everyone whose skin is not the same color. Yes, right now the trend is to try to get blacks and hispanics to hate each other by comparing them. There is no comparison to discuss here. In time when the privilege see they have no more use for them they too will be deemed inferior.

Look how the government is trying to get them out of here. "They are illegal and shouldn't be here" Yea, right!!!
The Indians could say the same thing about the privilege.

There would be no need for affirmative action if those with the privilege did the right thing. Hell, if they did the right thing period no race would have had to live through that hell of their hate.

There is no race or group of people that the privileged hasn't hated. Why is it that a group that has it all is filled with so much hatred. Perhaps it's because of what they did to get it all.

They are the original HATERS. (Racist Bigots)

altheman-

And you don't find your comments filled with hatred and anger?

Racism works in both directions and I perceive your comments filled with racism.

I don't judge anybody by the color of their skin, religion, sexual orientation etc. I judge people by their actions.

As a minority myself, I fully understand how one can feel oppressed by every action in our society. There is still racism today. As we continue to teach our children to better than ourselves, racism will fade.

That is unless people like you don't teach your children to look past color, gender, religion.

You said all whites live with white privelege. What does that mean? If that is a true statement then it must also be true that all blacks live with black privelege.

I have said this a million times on this blog....equal rights for all, special rights for none.

Gaytony,

I won't go into the minority that you are in but I will say, someone of your minority should easily see how my comments are factual and not racist. You know nothing of what I teach my children nor do you know if I have any.

White privilege is CONTINUITY..

Let me guess, my minority is chosen?

You made no comment on my statement of equal rights for all and special rights for none. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.

No, I don't believe your minority is chosen. I personally don't care.

I made no comment because none is warranted. A comment like that is so ridiculous I won't waste my time debating it.

If you don't like living the UISA then you are very free to leave and go somewhere else. People who always cry about being left out or marginalized or some other selfish BS just need to get over themselves. The world doesn't care about you. If you can't figure out how to make yourself happy then you are doomed to be miserable.