News-Record.com

well the letter started of fine .. but Then ...

"Perhaps the reason non-Christians are so uncomfortable with being different is because it's not where God intends them to be" ... followed by ... "I love all people, Christian or not" shows Ms. Peck is pretending .. pretending her love is real .. pretending she knew the plan, pretending to understand ... yet lost in alibis. She's not whom she used to think she was ... how strange.

Sorry, Eric - it just happened

Good lte Ms. Peck.

"whining like a spoiled ACLU baby"...

I like it.

Also great points about the Menorahs, Muslim outfits, and the new kid on the block, 'Kwanzaa'.

As a Christian I have to admit I don't feel persecuted. 2 of the about 6 universal American holidays are Christian verses zilch for every one else. What public prayers there are are Christian prayers. I feel free to practice my faith in all walks of life publicly and proudly.

I know America is a society of victims but I don't feel like a victim. I'm sorry Ms. Peck does.

Meow - you have anything (beyond garden ruminations) to back your disparagement of the ACLU ??

“It’s time Christians get the rights we deserve.”

Translation: It’s my way or the Hi-way.

I don’t have a problem with the HOA decoration issue, except the typical response to opposing viewpoints from her “Christian” neighbors. It wasn’t a public display and not really religious in nature. However, according to Jo-Ann, the problem all comes down to the fact that any dissenters are “not where God intends them to be.” Jo-Ann is mad as hell and she’s not going to take it anymore!!!

Poor baby – The vast majority of the country is Christian (but hopefully not all like Jo-Ann, but I can only speak for myself). Her President is supposedly a Christian (and also loves all people). Jo-Ann’s type of Christians have driven “religious and moral” legislation for the last six years, most with the purpose of trampling all over everyone else’s rights. Right wing Christians have filled cabinet and other important Govt. positions. Activist judges have been appointed to the Supreme, Appeals, and other Federal Courts. They are already starting to push the right wing Christian agenda and will almost certainly establish more of their type of Christianity as the law of the land. Jo-Ann and others of her ilk will never be happy until America is a De Facto theocracy and the CL is taken out of the ACLU.

Come on baby, I can’t feel the love.

You want to talk about being persecuted as a Christian? Cry me a river lady. Us non-Christians have to deal with your psycho-babble all the time.

We get ridiculed for not saying "under god" in the Pledge, for not praying to the sky before Thanksgiving Dinner and sometimes for mowing our lawn on Sunday. Not to mention the holidays...Easter and Christmas.

I don't advocate taking any of your rights away. In fact, I encourage you to go crazy with hanging all kinds of Christian stuff where ever you like (on your property of course). Just don't think you have the right to ask me to take down my Satanic/Muslim/Hindu/Wiccan stuff!

cRock-o-...feller, my 'disparagement' of the aclu is based mainly of their support of pedophilia. Call me old fashioned, but I don't agree with them that a known child predator has a 'right' to live next door to a family of young children unknown to that family.

Also their support of the government sanctioned racist 'affirmative action' does nothing to elevate them in my eyes.

And then there's the aclu's support of allowing muslims to take their oath in court on the 'quaran'. If they are truly for seperation of church and state why not advocate abolishing all religious symbols in the courtroom as they have erradicated all things christian in the public zoo system?

These are just a few things I find repulsive about the aclu.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54471

WORLD NET DAILY
Oh there's a real cerebral publication! You must have Ava and Adolph down there in the bunker with you, all hunkered down around the cache of weapons and MRE's you put together for the cataclysmic millenium predicted for seven years ago!

TM, if it weren't for the strawmen you construct, you'd have nothing to discuss. What a joke.

Thanks Neo .. a couple comments.

I think the "aclu supports pedophilia" is the fabled stray man. That's not how I understand their position, as previously discussed herein. If you can cite a specific case, I'll learn more.

I generally agree we are too tolerent of child predators" .. however i alos know it's not tat simple. Drink a beer and take a wiz in a back alley and you can be arrested and convicted as a Sex Criminal which puts you in the child predator leagues.

As for your link - if you're gonna dis' the entire ACLU due to the actions of one, you've probably also rejected the Republican Party - who was that guy that liked little boys? .. but as far as I can tell you have not rejected the Republican Party - nor the priesthood - nor probalby every other organization known to man - cause every organization has perverts somewhere.

Ditto affirmative action - If you can cite a specific case, I'll learn more.

As for allowing muslims to take their oath in court on the Quran .. I would suggest most Muslims taking their oath on the Quran will be more honest than most Christians using the Bible - start with OJ Simpson and roll right through Jimmy's Baker and Swaggart ... and who was that guy in the Republican Party that liked little boys?

"and who was that guy in the Republican Party that liked little boys?"

I can't remember but he used to get onto chat rooms as Nocoen. (;-}

Don't create strawmen, cRock-o-...feller. Pedophiles come in all colors and political stripes.

Here is one case, there are many, but I don't intend to spend the day carrying water for you.

http://www.cir-usa.org/articles/141.html

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Will someone on the left PLEASE acknowledge the presence of THE LIBERAL CANADIAN? His residence on the bottom rung of the leftist ladder has got to be leaving scars on his fragile ego...
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Mr. Firefly...I'm not familiar with such 'chat rooms'. How did you learn of them?
Oh yeah, I'll bet you "read" about them, right?...Riiiiiiight.

Neo,

I have Republican friends that tell me about such things.

Ms. Peck is a joke. Oh the poor helpless christians in this country. They get it so rough. Well don't worry there is a church every half-mile. So Ms. Peck whenever you are feeling under-appreciated go cry inside one of the churchs.

Intolerant people like her are the reason we have so many wars. The poor ole lady does not seem to realize that she is the intolerant one. We are not a country of majority rule either, we are a country of laws.

LastVOR says it well. Ms. Peck should take that to heart.

It's not necessary to defend Ms Stierand's actions or LTE to find Ms Peck's particularly objectionable. Her point boils down to lex maioris partis makes right even in matters of right, and them what don't like it can just shut up or leave. That's not the principle our nation was founded upon.
It goes without saying that Ms Stierand can live wherever she can afford to buy a home, and that is no one's else business, not the least Ms Peck's. As her community has a maintenance man and puts up decorations, it must be supposed that the community collects an annual due in whose payment she participates by legal covenant, and that "taxation" gives her every right to speak up about how those moneys are spent, and her neighbors should have the decency to hear her politely even if she is graceless in doing so and they disagree with her point.
When we lived in such a community, the entrance decorations were holly wreaths, light strings, and occasionally poinsettias. Several times someone stole all or parts of the decorations - usually a young person from within the community. My thought at the time was, "How nice that our Christian majority is trying to recognize their eclectic holiday by using the symbols of our pagan ancestors (holly &c) and the solstice-related lights that almost every religion has adapted for this time of year."
We had Jewish neighbors, a couple of Asian families whose religion was their own business, at least one black family who might or might not have celebrated Kwanzaa, Adventist neighbors, lots of other Christians who mostly minded their own business, and us. We were invited and went to "Love Feast" services most Christmases and celebrated a Hanukkah meal with our Jewish friends. We appreciated the ancient symbolism in different ways than these neighbors did, but we all had a good time together.
The whole neighborhood got along pretty well except when an uphill neighbor decided to concentrate and dump his driveway drainage on the downhill properties and another neighbor had a septic leak and a basement spring he preferred to move away from and leave to an unsuspecting new owner rather than fix, but those are the vagaries of neighborhood life.
If Ms Stierand is somewhat touchy and socially inept, Ms Peck is just plain disrespectful and obnoxious. I'm glad enough not to have either for a neighbor.
To correct two egregious errors Ms Peck has made, neither the ACLU nor the courts have removed prayer from schools or public events. The US Constitution forbids our governments or allowing government agents from promoting one religion or restricting the (reasonable) free exercise of another. Folks at schools and public events can pray on their own anytime doing so is not disruptive to the public order (which is reasonable). But of course, keeping the government and its agents from imposing their religion is persecution to some Christians, and not allowing Christians to have exclusive use of public events venues for proselytizing is the same as beating up on Christianity for others.
Also, we who are not Christians are not uncomfortable because of our choices. Any discomfort we feel is due to the presumption, insensitivity, thoughtlessness, and hypocrisy that is forced upon us by the Christian majority. Just as many Christians came to America to escape the discomfort of living in lands where they were truly persecuted for their beliefs, we live here today because America's promise was that we would not be persecuted for the presence or absence of our beliefs. Ms Peck's words belie that promise for everyone, including Christians and other people of faith who do not hold her peculiar beliefs.

"It's time Christians get the rights we deserve"

Huh? I can tell you what I 'deserve' for my actions in life, but it ain't pretty. The good thing about being a Christian is that you get a lot from God that you DON'T deserve.

The rest of this letter really comes out as one big whine. The boos and actions of the people at this meeting were uncalled for regardless of what this lady said and regardless of whether or not these people are Christians. It's common courtesy. If the majority didn't like her opinion, they should have just had a vote and be done with it.

"I have Republican friends that tell me about such things."

C'mon Mr. Firefly, that sounds kinda...clownish. Sorta like sticking one's tounge out...

This letter writer does not understand the true meaning of "persecution".

She is complaining about prayer being removed from public places. Why are we supposed to pray in public, at all? Jesus had a word for those who do: "hypocrites".

Prayer is meant to be a time of private communion between the believer and God. Prayer done solely in His sight has effect. Prayer done for sake of public spectacle... is worse than meaningless.

Once more I see professing Christians gripe about how they are being deprived of the ability to wield their religion in public. When will they stop and question themselves about WHY they really want to do such things? Is it for His glory, or for our own?

The strength of this country's spiritual character does not hinge on whether or not prayer is in our schools or anywhere else in public. It does not depend on whether the Ten Commandments are on display in a courthouse. It's not measured by how vindictive so-called "Christians" can be toward their "persecutors" among the ACLU and "godless liberals".

It depends on how willing we are to humble ourselves before God. And we seem to be flying completely away from doing anything of the sort.

If you want to see REAL persecution against Christians, look toward Saudi Arabia which routinely tortures and even beheads believers in Christ. I wonder when our "Christian" President is ever going to condemn *them* for what that government does to "his" Christian brethren.

Neo,

I apologize for any appearance of seriousness. It was strictly unintentional.

I'll bite my "tounge" next time I get the silly urge to stick it out. (;-}

"WORLD NET DAILY
Oh there's a real cerebral publication!"

Amazing how Liberal Demon Conservative Deacon can take the undeniable fact that Charles Rust-Tierney, the former president of the Virginia chapter of the ACLU, was arrested for possessing child porn and all he can do is blast the source cited, World Net Daily.

Perhaps the fact of the arrest will become "credible" if dinosaur media sources are cited:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2900174

http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20070223-104642-1644r.htm

Riddle me this, how would you feel if on our money it said "there is no god" Did you know that "in god we trust" was not put on our money until 1956 during the cold war era. Now the typical christian response would be "America was founded on christian principals" Well I have terrible news for you, it wasent. First off you should re-read about our founding fathers: Washington, Franklin, Hamilton, Adams, Madison and Jefferson. Not even to mention the fact that christians worship a book that was written by people who thought the world was flat, so you can draw your own conclusion on how far you would sail out to sea, highly unlikely more than a few miles. Also look our first amendment, it prohibits that from being on our money and it should be taken off. If anything christians are thriving especially with dubyas faith baised initative. But the time will come when the mystical generation of jesus, by the supreme being as his father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fabel generation of minerva and the brain of jupiter.

Sui, you are partly correct. In God We Trust didn't appear on paper money until 1956, but it first appeared on the 1864 two cent coin.

http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml

Actually on paper money in 1957

Dan - that's what I call putting in your two cents worth. ;-)

Geez! What a joke! Duping these people is so easy. Televangelists have it easier than stealing candy from a baby. Do a slick documentary or book with exaggerated, cherry-picked examples of "Christian persecution" and you can convince any idiot that the "problem" is widespread.

They will then go to church every Sunday in complete freedom, eat lunch afterwards in a restaurant full of others who just left church. Yet, they will still believe they are part of a persecuted group. Jo-Ann, please listen to what Christopher Knight just said. If you really understood persecution, you would realize how stupid your letter sounds.

If anyone doesn't want their money that says "In God We Trust" on it, I'd be happy to accept it and I promise it will go to good use.

I know two words that make some Christians cringe. Liberal Christian. I have a friend that's a devout believer, yet he's even more liberal than I am. The Christian faith needs more people like him.

Dan,
Your example of a chapter of the ACLU having a sex offender is laughable! Guess since Congressman Mark Foley was a child molester, all Congressmen and all Republicans are also sex offenders! You really don't get it, do you.

Too bad you don't put your warped reasoning to work on the Catholic Priests! How's that church sanctioned pedophillia working out for you?
************
Stevie D,
Glad to see your name again! Can you believe how the 28% is represented by Dan and neoKitty! They still hump Bush's leg like it's November of 2001. Keep posting, as these clowns are better than Comedy Central--and they don't mean to be!

Somebody...

ANYBODY!!!

"WORLD NET DAILY
Oh there's a real cerebral publication!"

Amazing how Liberal Demon Conservative Deacon can take the undeniable fact that Charles Rust-Tierney, the former president of the Virginia chapter of the ACLU, was arrested for possessing child porn and all he can do is blast the source cited, World Net Daily.

Perhaps the fact of the arrest will become "credible" if dinosaur media sources are cited:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2900174

http://www.washtimes.com/metro/20070223-104642-1644r.htm

Alas I wish some people could read. Point #1. A fact is posted. Point #2 Liberal Demon Conservative Deacon can't read, rather douses the origin of the fact, World Net Daily, because it doesn't agree with him. Point #3 No one ever claimed all ACLU members were porn watchers. Point #4 Liberal Demon Conservative Deacon baits and switches as usual.

Forget it Neo, no pat on the rump, Darryl isn't around to stand by his man. The rest realize it is what it is.

Swanks hasn't been around but isn't forgotten:

TLC,
Once, in a blue moon, you actually raise a cognizant thought and make me think that your drivel is worth slightly more than the excrement on the bottom of my shoe.
Then, however, you go and make a series of posts that make me somewhat angry at myself for being lulled into a sense that you may be taken seriously someday.
Your partisan tripe is what is laughable. Is it such a foreign concept to you that other people's lives revolve around more than just what political party they are? Have you ever given any thought to the concept that another person is just as entitled to their ideas as you are? Is it completely impossible for you to engage in any semblance of a sane and rational conversation for longer than a single post?
Have you ever wondered why you are one of the few posters that seems to be ignored on a regular basis, except for the posts, like this one, that are in direct opposition to you?
DD, I have no idea who you are, nor do I can to know. But one thing that I do know about you, and I know it as well as I know my own name, is that the DD in person is far from the DD you portray yourself as on these blogs.
Here, you are able to insult, annoy and act like a general buffoon without regard to anything. In person, you would never speak to anyone like you do here. You are but a sad little man who must retreat into the cyber world in order to be the bully, as you are unable to stick up for yourself in the real world. Alligator's mouth and a hummingbird's ass.
I especially find it ironic that you mention this is the greatest country in the world after you had previously, proudly announced how you cowardly sewed Canadian flags on your AND YOUR FAMILY'S luggage when traveling abroad. If you really thought this country where so great, then you would have no reason to be ashamed of it, other than a fear of what other people may think about you.
So go ahead, little man, sit there and stew about the comeback you want to make against me. I know that you will have a hard time formulating something new and not bastardizing someone else's ideas (JDR's "little kitty and your own moniker as examples). To keep it simple, stick to your old standard comebacks which include, but are not limited to:
1) ask me about my name
2) tell me I come from the shallow end of the gene pool
3) ask about the wheels on my trailer home
4) call me a rabid partisan (such delicious irony makes this one my personal favorite)
5) tell me to watch more than just Sean Hannity and listen to more than Rush

By this point, despite myself, I am starting to feel more than a little pity for you. So go ahead and craft your comeback. Say what you want about me and I will not respond to it. Call me anything you want and I will not respond to you on this issue, at this time.
Instead, I will let all the other posters read each of our posts and they can make their own judgments about us.
I am not afraid of peer review, DD. Are you?
Posted by swanks | May 12, 2007 11:21 AM

Or as Denzien put it more succinctly: "Damn grow up".

I agree with those who say they are Christian and do not feel persecuted. I worship freely, I live as a free woman and am not offended (or persecuted) if others enjoy the same rights as I do. I don't want to bear the burden of having to put up with people who want me to pray to anyone or anything that they choose. Conversely, I respect their right to not have to pray to the one of my choosing. Simply respecting the rights of others as I expect them to respect my right, is all it would take to eliminate some of this bickering.

Speaking of bickering, I may not always agree with the way others choose to express themselves but I defend their right to express themselves however they choose. It seems to me this forum frequently gets constipated because someone(s) wants everyone else to follow their own way of stating things. When this happens, the intelligent discussions all but come to an end (blocked) and all the crap starts.

There are those who like to gang-bang TLC for the way he presents his opinions. While I choose a more genteel way of stating my opinions most of the time, I have been known to break bad now and again. The point is, I express myself in my own way just as most of you do. Why can't TLC be allowed to do the same without being subject to censorship by the same few?

Now and again is a lot different than always (well, even Ivory Soap isn't 100% pure).

The personal attacks wear thin quickly. An over-reaction here and there is easily excused.

Dan and neocon...NOW THERE'S A COUPLE OF GOOD CHRISTIANS!

I don't claim to be a 'Christian' oh weak minded Canadian wannabee.

I find it hypocritical of idiots like you who come here and spout personal insults all day long then relate a conversation they had with their 'pastor' last Sunday...or was that an OB/GYN...or a Citidel member who hates Bush...or a social worker who says...or a victim of racist white real estate salesmen...or...

:]

TM, Comment was made with tongue firmly implanted in cheek.

Don't worry, there are two things you'll NEVER be accused of: being compassionate or being intelligent.