News-Record.com

Be careful there. For pointing out The Decider's insanity, you yourself will be branded as having "Bush Derangement Syndrome" by his supporters. Much like how dissidents in the Soviet Union were diagnosed as having "deranged minds" and sent off to the gulags for "treatment", if they weren't shot behind the chemical sheds instead.

Whether or not Bush is legitimately insane, what IS insane is why some people refuse to question his stubbornness at staying in Iraq. A rational mind would at least be honestly wondering WHAT purpose is being fulfilled by our being there.

Dr Brown,
Insanity is defined in a number of ways. According to your definition of doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is very characteristic of our school system, our media coverage of the war in Iraq and a host of other daily occurences. Doesnt quite define insanity does it.

Are you ashamed of the US and our troops? You strongly indicate such. You dont have to stay; you can move to another country you are more comfortable with.

Chris,
If all you can or will do is listen to the biased news reports then you wont find the value in our being there. You will go on believing our work there is insanity. I wish you and those like you could go there and see for yourself why we persist in helping this country get back on its feet. I suppose you consider youself to be a rational thinker. Rational thinking would have canceled the landings at Omaha Beech, Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, and our entry into Germany where we liberated the death camp survivors.

NCP - I would like to hear how the "media coverage of the war in Iraq" falls into the category of "doing the same thing over and over expecting different results".

"Biased" news reports? Maybe .. but it seems since the summer of 2003 there were reports things were not all "flowers-at-the-feet of liberators" ... and after November 2006 "the decider" changed the course he'd been demanding for, quickly dumping the Best Dam Sec' of Defense the country has ever had, and sending in 30,000 more troops for a new direction .. that's over three years. So maybe the biased media had been close to accurate - is that possible?

Do Tell.

And please also tell "the value in our being there". If it's to "persist in helping this country get back on its feet" then please expound - what does that look like? Are you expecting Baptist Churches on every corner? That'll never happen.

How about a fairly government. Don't they kinda already have that? Do you think that all the sectarian vs. sectarian violence is solely focused on getting the occupier out? Wait .. we're not occupiers, we're liberators, so scratch that.

If we're there to help stem the sectarian vs. sectarian violence - invited assistance to the Iraqi government, are we then obligated to help elsewhere too? Why aren't we doing this everywhere? Why have not the UN and Coalition Forces offered to help such a noble cause?

btw - Rational thinking would have canceled the whole thing in March of 2003. Your WWII comparisons are .. well let's be kind and say not comparable.

... and for the record - the only reason I have to stay is to prove to ourselves and the world we have the balls to stick it out. Frankly I don't care about the violence that will befall the country when we leave .. and it will happen if we leave in 2 weeks, 2 months, or 2 years .. but I do worry about the perception leaving will cause. Certainly it will embolden the few wacky extremists .. and that's a legit' concern.

Let the record also show that the count of "the few wacky extremists" seems to be be increasing. It was literally dozens in the 70's, hundreds in the 90's and now we're in the thousands if not 10's of thousands.

Why, NCP?

A joke in my inbox:

Q: How many Bush Administration officials does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

A: None. There is nothing wrong with the light bulb; its conditions are improving every day. Any reports of its lack of incandescence are a delusional spin from the liberal media. That light bulb has served honorably, and anything you say undermines the lighting effect.

Incompetence and Arrogance have been the hallmarks of this administration. Can't wait for MORE of the 28% to weigh in on this letter--Thanks NC Patriot, for getting the ball rolling!

If you think the administration is marked by cronyism, just wait for the "Scooter" Libby pardon!

Loved listening to the GOP candidates call for the pardon of Libby, claiming the prosecutor was beyond his "original" task. That was a hoot! Guess ol' Kenneth Starr should have stuck to Whitewater rather than going after marital infidelity too? Even Howard Coble was all worked into a lather over that one. Dang! Those moralists have a way of getting themselves between the rock and the very hard place.

NCP,

If you've got some good news happening in Iraq lay it on us. If there is a good reason to be there enlighten us. If Bush is doing a good job in any area reveal the secret.

Should be an easy task for a true believer untainted by the liberal bias of the national press.

"I wish you and those like you could go there and see for yourself why we persist in helping this country get back on its feet."

What you are suggesting, in its present context, can only be described as nation-building and that's something that America was never meant to be involved in. We aren't supposed to "help countries" find themselves. Leave it up to them whether they sink or swim. It's the only way they will ever come to govern themselves.

"I suppose you consider youself to be a rational thinker. Rational thinking would have canceled the landings at Omaha Beech, Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, and our entry into Germany where we liberated the death camp survivors."

Germany and Japan had engaged in aggressive acts against us. Iraq under Saddam Hussein never did. They never *could*. They weren't even involved in Al-Quaeda terrorism against us. And if they ever did attack us it would only be because the United States government first helped to arm Iraq in the years leading up to the Gulf War.

And I think it's ridiculous that you compare what has been going on in Iraq with Normandy and Iwo Jima. You do a grave dis-service to the men who went and fought there, by likening Bush's foolishness now with their gallantry then.

While we're asking NCP questions he won't answer, lemme expand on one from Christopher:

All we hear from right demigods is "Pull yourself up by the bootstraps; don't rely on g-man handouts". So why, NCP are we "helping" Iraq become a democracy? Why don't they pull themselves up by the bootstraps? Why are we giving them g-man handouts? Why aren't they sinking or swimming by their own devices? After all, it's the only way they will ever come to govern themselves.

I'll hold my breath waiting for your response.

JDR, YOU SPEAK MY MIND!

Shalom

JDR, YOU SPEAK MY MIND TOO!

Another question for NCP: How many of the 126 US soldiers reportedly killed in the month of May in Iraq were only the lies of the liberal, biased media? Please excuse my resistance in believing everything is going well in Iraq, NCP. If you chose to believe all the violence, the deaths, all the futility in our "mission" is all a scam by the media, have at it. But please do not insult my intelligence by telling me this is fact and expecting me to buy into your fantasy.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." You make an interesting point, A. O. Brown ... and SIMULTANEOUSLY provide a clear demonstration thereof.

Remarkable, is it not, how a few people REPEATEDLY write letters to the editor of the N&R whining about the President with the apparent expectation that the President will vacate the Oval Office?

Insanity? Perhaps you are quite right. Thanks for the graphic example.

Jack, all we can do is "whine". We have no voice in the decisions...democracy at its best.

Still waiting for the good news from Iraq.

Jack, if nothing else they are putting it down on record, in a way for future generations to see, that there were yet some people who did not fall for the foolishness of supporting George W. Bush.

Just as it will be well on record that there were some who were foolish enough to trust him with anything.

Long after we are gone, our words will still be here. That's all that there'll be to judge us by.

In fact, it's altogether possible that what I am writing right now on this blog will somehow persist in cyberspace indefinitely, and will still be online 70 or 80 years from now.

I get to have the satisfaction of knowing that THEY will know, in no uncertain terms, that I denounced the tyranny when it's blossoming should have been apparent to all. And there are some here who will be seen by those future researchers as traitors to their country and fellow man. They have more than earned the mocking they will receive from our grandchildren and their children.

I'm addressing this to everyone: be mindful of what you write here. You never know who or where... or when... your thoughts will be read by others.

"If you chose to believe ... the futility in our "mission" is all a scam by the media .. "

Let me clarify my position, Yvonne. I do believe there is and has been real good news coming out of Iraq ... but is it limited, even now it is not enough .. and I could stand the limitedness if I also believed the President had a clear sense of what we were really doing there.

... but I don't think he "gets it" ... and here's why I say that:

From http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2007/05/mil-070524-whitehouse01.htm

" ... what they're going to try to do is kill as many innocent people as they can to try to influence the debate here at home. Don't you find that interesting? I do -- that they recognize that the death of innocent people could shake our will, could undermine David Petraeus's attempt to create a more stable government. They will do anything they can to prevent success."

So apparently the President thinks every time a Sunni uses a hand-drill to bore a 1/4 hole into the skull of a Shi'ite, it is to exclusively to undermine the American esprit de corps - it has nothing to do with century's old tribal and sectarian divides, let alone a simple honor killing. It's all about al Qaeda vs. the Infiltrators, no other players, no other complexity. In his mind it's all "Us vs. Them"

Sorry, but I disagree with that. While he really does know more than I about the current situation .. modesty aside in 1985 I knew there were both Sunni and Shi'ite, and I knew they didn't get along. I'll bet a meal at Ryan’s' Steak House he didn't know that until relatively recently.

Carol, it's being widely reported at this hour that Turkish military forces have invaded Iraq.

If these reports are true, there is NO way possible that this administration will be able to spin it as "good news". All kinds of scary possibilities come to mind...

I happen to agree with this editorial:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/realclearpolitics/20070530/cm_rcp/the_hard_truth_about_leaving_i_1

The problem is, we're also not making any comittment to stay .. pussy-footing it .. which is no better than leaving asap. So if you're not gonna poop, get off the crapper.

I also agree " ... the goal of the Islamic terrorists is the destruction of Western civilization and the restoration of the caliphate." .. but know that the COUNT of Islamic terrorists WAS pretty small until fairly recently, and our present diddling is only adding to the count.

" ... were it possible to remain in Iraq and accomplish the obvious goals of bringing a true peace among the warring parties -- Sunni, Shiite and Kurd -- with a stable central government accepted by all, that would, of course, be ideal. But the Shiite majority does not want to forgive the Sunnis who oppressed them for so many years, and will not share government power or oil revenues with them. The Sunnis, who are 20 percent of the population, appear to be militarily more capable than the Shia and are primarily responsible for the car bombs and the improvised explosive devices .. "

"Remarkable, is it not, how a few people REPEATEDLY write letters to the editor of the N&R whining about the President with the apparent expectation that the President will vacate the Oval Office?"

Jack,

I think we'd be satisfied if the voice of the people which is getting louder on many fronts (electoral included) would spur him to use the brain that God gave him to the service of our nation.

ncpatriot,
Welcome to the cyber version of the flower children...

peace, man...

at the risk of insulting you, Neo .. notice how, like you, ncpatriot spits out an opinion - contrary to damm near everything known to mankind - then never addresses honest concerns raised about his spittle. You prove the reason the Electoral system was established - who would want that kind of ignorance directly electing leadership.

Hey did you know the moon is made of cheese?

I know that sounds INSANE, but insanity is defined in a number of ways. You disagree? Then you must be ashamed of the US and our troops. Your dissent indicates such. You don’t have to stay here; you can move to another country where you will be more comfortable. Move to the moon!

How do I KNOW the moon is made of cheese? Well if all you do is listen to the biased news reports then you won’t find this basic truth, then you will go on believing the moon is made of rock. I wish you and those like you could go there and see for yourself.

My goodness but it seems so many people here all feel the same way. Wait for good news, you very well will because it is a liberal media. Keep on waiting because that doesnt sell newspapers. Find a service person who has served there and ask them.
Lets get Bush the hell out of here and then lets see the puny democrats take the helm and truly screw it up.
Maybe if you hold your breath long enough you will pass the hell out.

James,

I would have to be a fool to bet against you. While there are many bulbs on the tree much brighter than me, I still wouldn't classify myself as a fool.

While reading the press conference you provided, I kept thinking I must be missing something. It sounded so familiar, as if I've been hearing it for the last five years. I thought a NEW strategy had been proposed. Bush may have walked a different circle to get there but he arrived at the same place he's always been.

So clue me in, please. What is so new? He sends more soldiers EXPECTING them to be killed. Is that not what he has done all along? He states the Iraqis need to assume more responsibility for their own security and fate. But he doesn't press for a time line. Isn't that what he's been saying and doing for at least four years?

So you can forget about me betting against your statement. I think Bush is even less intelligent than you do. And I think he is a whole lot more evil than you. Even if you anted up to dinner at the Waldorf in NY, I wouldn't bet he knew about the Sunni and Shi'ite, much less how poorly they got along. I've said all along the reason Ossama picked Bush to carry out his mission was because Bush did not know much of anything about the ME.

NCPATRIOT,
I just turned to that "liberal" media known as FOXNews & they can't seem to find your 'good' news either! Damn those liberals!

Such is life in the little blue dot known as the triad...

At least they're out of spitting or rotten egg range.

cRock-o-...feller, I'm all broke up you think so little of me. How will I ever go on? Why don't some of you Einsteins that have all the answers run for public office? This way you can actually affect events instead of spouting off on a one horse blog telling everyone else how ignorant they are and what SHOULD be done. It should be a cakewalk to get elected by bleating about how you "frankly don't care about that country". Put it to a public vote and let's see how far you get.
I count 4 votes for you on this one thread alone.

You're preaching to the choir here in front of CK, THE LIBERAL CANADIAN, etc., etc., etc. Put your genius to work where the entire country can benefit from it. If someone as stupid as W can get elected twice, you ought to be a shoo-in.
I'll be looking for the announcement.

"In fact, it's altogether possible that what I am writing right now on this blog will somehow persist in cyberspace indefinitely, and will still be online 70 or 80 years from now."

Perhaps, in your case, that is true, Christopher Knight. You have a command of language that may be deemed worthy of permanent record in the future.

Alas, for most of us however, myself especially, "the world will little note nor long remember what we say here." And we may thank God for it.

Oh come on now John! Don't be so hard on yourself. :)

A little cut and paste in rememberance of D-Day anniversary.

Ladies and gentlemen, here is the prayer that FDR gave 63 years ago on the radio. This is the 63rd anniversary of the D-Day invasion. This is a prayer that could not be delivered by a president today without a whole bunch of activist groups raising all kinds of hell, talking about separation of church and state, you know the drill. This is FDR 63 years ago.

Last night, when I spoke with you about the fall of Rome, I knew at that moment that troops of the United States and our Allies were crossing the Channel in another and greater operation. It has come to pass with success thus far. And so, in this poignant hour, I ask you to join with me in prayer: Almighty God: our sons, pride of our Nation, this day have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle to preserve our Republic, our religion, and our civilization, and to set free a suffering humanity. Lead them straight and true; give strength to their arms, stoutness to their hearts, steadfastness in their faith.

They will need Thy blessings. Their road will be long and hard. For the enemy is strong. He may hurl back our forces. Success may not come with rushing speed, but we shall return again and again; and we know that by Thy grace, and by the righteousness of our cause, our sons will triumph. They will be sore tried, by night and by day without rest - until the victory is won. The darkness will be rent by noise and flame. Men's souls will be shaken with the violences of war. For these men are lately drawn from the ways of peace. They fight not for the lust of conquest. They fight to end conquest. They fight to liberate. They fight to let justice arise, and tolerance and good will among all Thy people. They yearn but for the end of battle, for their return to the haven of home.

Some will never return. Embrace these, Father, and receive them, thy heroic servants, into Thy kingdom. And for us at home -- fathers, mothers, children, wives, sisters and brothers of brave men overseas -- whose thoughts and prayers are ever with them -- help us, Almighty God, to rededicate ourselves in renewed faith in Thee in this hour of great sacrifice. Many people have urged that I call the Nation into a single day of special prayer. But because the road is long and the desire is great, I ask that our people devote themselves in a countenance of prayer. As we rise to each new day, and again when each day is spent, let words of prayer be on our lips, invoking Thy help to our efforts.

Give us strength, too -- strength in our daily tasks, to redouble the contributions we make in the physical and the material support of our armed forces. And let our hearts be stout, to wait out the long travail, to bear sorrows that may come, to impart our courage unto our sons wheresoever they may be. And, O Lord, give us faith. Give us faith in Thee; faith in our sons; faith in each other; faith in our united crusade. Let not the keenness of our spirit ever be dulled. Let not the impacts of temporary events, of temporal matters of but fleeting moment -- let not these deter us in our unconquerable purpose.

With Thy blessing, we shall prevail over the unholy forces of our enemy. Help us to conquer the apostles of greed and racial arrogancies. Lead us to the saving of our country, and with our sister nations into a world unity that will spell a sure peace -- a peace invulnerable to the schemings of unworthy men. And a peace that will let all men live in freedom, reaping the just rewards of their honest toil. Thy will be done, Almighty God. Amen.

Now, that's 63 years ago, Franklin Delano Roosevelt on the radio. He did this on the day of the D-Day invasion, where 6,000 allied troops perished in one day. It helps to remember all this to put current events in perspective. History is always valuable for that because it shows us just how much perspective we lack, historical knowledge, context that some of us are unable to apply to present day circumstances. Noteworthy also in this, FDR, as the president of the country, threw this nation open to God's will. He was a liberal Democrat. Now, if FDR had been president in that Democrat faith forum on Monday night and said things like this, then I would have acknowledged that there's some genuine obvious connection to God there. But that's not what we got from this current crop. But the point is, this prayer could not be delivered by a president of the United States today. Oh, he could deliver it. But can you imagine the controversy, the outcries, the protests, the anger, and the rage? Because back then, the nation was united in victory. Today, it's not. Today there's a political party is doing its best to secure defeat, for their own personal political gain down the road. They would not stand for this because they would accuse the president who offered a prayer like this of suggesting that God was not on the Democrats side. So it's interesting to hear this. It's powerful to read it to you. I know that most of you probably heard it for the first time today.

Neo .. you are SO wrong. I'm NOT "preaching to the choir" .. I'm trying to engage the non-choir in a true discourse .. I ask NCPatriot sincere questions .. and all I get back is nothingness.

The most useful thing is "ask a serviceman".

As I have described before, there are four types of servicemen. The answer you get when you "ask a serviceman" depends on which category they are in. There are those like my nephew that re-upped for the $10,000 bonus .. reassigned to the front line and is now scared shitless. There are the true believers like Pat Tillman, may God rest his soul. There are the National Guard. All these guys are there doing their duty, at this point they are all heroes .. and a lot of them - especially the young ones - will be seriously f'd up when they get back here.

For What?

No I'm not playing games - nor looking for a cheering squad -- but a damm honest answer from NCP would be more valuable then another inch of rain.

I agree, OTax .. The nation is NOT united in victory. Who's fault is that?

I don't buy there is a political party is doing its best to secure defeat .. although I totally agree there is a political party doing its best for their own personal political gain -- in fact there are two.

.. what amazes me is that the second part of the above paragraph is not universally accepted.

"I don't buy there is a political party is doing its best to secure defeat"

JDR,

The Republicans had total control of the government on 9/12/01. They had the whole nation united behind them. They had nearly the whole world united behind America.

Fast forward to 2007. Wanna rethink that statement?

no rethink needed .. they were not working for defeat. They really were expecting quick victory ala Bush 41's Granada - Chalabi in Charge, Flowers at their feet, Oil Control. It'a all documented, with WMD's as the rationale (unproven data, decade old information, being disproved ever week by Hans, but what the hey).

Too bad no one did their homework -- McCain said today he didn't read the paperwork; he was not alone.

JDR, universally accepted or not we have young men and women who are making great sacrifices some making the ultimate sacrifice while we sit here making our petty little arguements defending politicians.
The way I see it we are all being duped by politicians on the left and right and for what.
MONEY!!!! You see this whole 2 party system the we've bought into is nothing more than smoke screen that while we are blinded by our ideology the politicians in this country sit back and count the money.Dems and Repubs wine and dine together off camera and fight like cats and dogs on it. Kinda reminds me of WWE wrestling , the show they put on. Not only them but the media also helps out by keeping controversy alive so they can sell more papers or commercial time etc. and we keep yearning for more and more like a drug addict.

I have sat here at times and watched all of you go at each other day in and day out and the only thing you accomplish with this constant bickering is more money going to the coffers of the politicians and the media corporations. I've been registered as both a dem and repub and I remember how my mail box used to fill with pledge cards from both parties begging for money to fight "THE evil other side".
I challenge all of you to think about the world around you and use a little common sense and study the world of politics and its inner-workings. The more one side attacks the other the more money comes rolling in.
If you want to champion a cause try insisting on allowing more choices for political office because trust me brothers and sisters it aint worth the time & effort tearing each other down defending this bunch that represents us.

I also don't think Bushy ever worked for defeat ... ever .. but Rovie was working for exclusively for R power, and Cheney had made up his mind - facts be dammed. Bushy was (is) more concerned with getting along and trusting than actually checking into things himself (or asking others to look for him into alternative paths).

totally agree, oTax

cRock-o-...feller, for whatever reason, the radical Muslims whose goal is the destruction of the US has gathered in Iraq. The same radicals there now are of the same cloth that carried out the first wtc bombing, the attack on the USS Cole, and the fanatics who held hostage the Americans in Iran, no? You can argue WHY they are there, but the fact is they ARE there. I say turn them to dust over there and not in NY, Chicago, or Anytown, USA.

I agree with this guy. He should have credibility with you too:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010107

I don't disagree, Meow .. but who are you going to turn to dust? The entire population of Iraq?

That's the problem - with this and any gorilla type war. WHO is the enemy? I suggest we have added to their ranks, but one still cannot distinguish good Iraqi from bad Iraqi - and that is the crux.

Get approval to Carpet bomb Iraq, and Iran, and Syria, and Palistine, and Somolia, and Eqypt .. well that should do it .. THEN your plan will work.

JDR, facts seem to cause great silence from some. Thanks for speaking as you do on these blogs.

Overtaxed, thanks for posting the speech by FDR of 63 years past.

Shalom

I have a couple issues with Kerrey's OpEd.

"Saddam Hussein because Iraq was rightly seen as a threat following Sept. 11, 2001" Currently I don't buy that.

"The demand for self-government was and remains strong in Iraq .. " True .. but there are a bunch of little groups fighting over that power -dozens of them - some already holding major power in the Iraqi government..

"... the violent efforts of al Qaeda, Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias to disrupt" True. They are the bunch of little groups

I agree " .. Iraq has become the primary battleground against the same radical Islamists who declared war on the U.S. .. " but that is not the ENTIRE battle -- just a seriously complicating factor, and the main reason we should not leave now: It'll be more proof they can kick the butt of the superpowers , ala Iran and Afghanistan.

RockeyFeller,
Do you work? I notice you have more entries than anyone which means you are always here. You need to get out and get a life. You are the biggest whiner I have ever seen. The majority of us still work and thus can only come in here occasionally.

Perhaps if you hermatized yourself you would help our communities or you could seek professional counseling. You are a bitter old man who stands in the background and shouts insults but wont come forward to sustain a cure.

I can find internet support for your thinking but then I can also find support for calling our troops murderers. When this thing turns against you and your weaseled thinking, I hope you can find a friend to help you.

Do I work? Sure .. about 60 hours a week. But during the day much is spent on the phone so while on hold I often think and write about what is important to me ... #1 of which happens to be the War in Iraq 'cause it will define our future - yours, mine, and our children and grand children.

Yes I'm passionate about it - this particular thread held my interest because I was looking for some reality discussion - which sorry for the insult you've yet to provide.

You make a satement about the Lame Stream Media .. I say what are you talking about .. and since then you've posted twice addressing that or any other issue.

Whiner? If I'm the biggest one you've ever seen then you lead a sheltered life. FWIW - I don't know why you call it whining. I try to engage in discussion, offer solutions to the problems I see, and pass along information I gleam. If that's standing in the background so be it.

I would say insults are earned - like if you're not going to expand upon a statement yo make - a statement that demonstrates either profound inside information of a closed mindset -

Sustain a cure? See above. At least I try to engage in discussion, offer solutions to the problems I see, and pass along information I gleam.

You can find internet support for anything, I'll grant you that. If you think my use of the President's recent press conference is weaseled thinking, then you'd better look elsewhere for the weasel.

The really funny part, NCP? If you looked - if you actually read my postings - you'd find you an I are not that far apart on this issue. I'm all for winning the way in Iraq, think we need to stay, etc., but the difference is I have not taken the Commander In Chief at his word, as you apparently have.

He went into this with a half assed plan, he fought it for 3 years not only with blinders on but with a higher priority on advancing the Republican party than winning the war - and that my friend is an unforgivable sin. Not until getting his partisan butt kicked in the 2006 election did he even start to pay attention.

Now he has made some minor changes - but imho they are still half assed considering how late he entered the fray - and this really concerns me - 'cause we're about to loose this and it'll be butt-crack ugly when we do.

"but who are you going to turn to dust? The entire population of Iraq?"

Well, hell yes... if that's what it takes. I'd rather turn that sandbox into a sheet of glass than have the US suffer the same fate. And believe me, if these radical Muslims obtain the weapons and get half a chance to do it, they damn sure will. Those of that mindset are way beyond being bought off with a well and a water pump.

'Currently you don't buy that Iraq was a threat following 9/11'...tough shit. The islamofacists are there now and they most certainly are a threat. They don't give a damn whether James D. Rockefeller (or Bob Kerry, or neocon or A O Brown) "buys" that Iraq was a threat following 9/11 or not. Deal with it.

Without Googling, how many knows the number of terrorists killed to date in Afghanistan and Iraq by US forces and are therefore unable to hi-jack any more planes and fly them into American city skyscrapers? Not many, I'd say.

How many can name the number of US forces killed by the terrorists? Nearly anyone who opens an American newspaper or turns on an American TV can recite this number. And most likely they can tell you how many days the 'detainees' have been held at Gitmo 'illegally'.

This is the liberal press in action.

*****************************************

ncp, cRock-o-...feller's job IS to reign over the n-r blog and make the likes of sweet pea cream his panties with his rhetoric.

JDR, why is dialogue expected with a closed mind? You have presented the case (factually). It is now up to those who read to decide for themselves. To continue writing at this point is almost futile. Maybe now the best thing is to stop addressing those who refuse to entertain the dialogue. Doing this in hopes that at a later time dialogue will happen. I just see nothing constructive happening at the current time.

Just my two cents.

Shalom

You get $0.02 back in change for that sweet pea.

Meow: While we agree it's better to turn Iraq into a sheet of glass than have the US suffer the same fate ... you wil have to add several other countries to achieve that goal.

Yea when the Radical Muslims obtain the weapons, they damn sure will try to do that .. and we further agree those of that mindset are way beyond being bought off with a well and a water pump ... but you over look that 1) there were only a couple dozens of "Radical Muslims" a couple decades ago, and now there are tens (if not hundreds) of thousands.

Have you ever stopped to consider WHY their count is growing rapidly?

No-one knows the number of terrorists - vs. civilians caught in the crossfire. Not many? Probably right - I'd argue there were not that many to begin with; see above.

more toubling to me is the new wave of home-grown terrorists or wannbe terrorists. Have you ever stopped to consider WHY their count is growing rapidly?

James,
Kitty has no intellectual curiosity, as his time is spent on witty comebacks, denigrations or outright name calling. When he/she does try to back up a statement, it's usually with some right wing blog source or the GOP website "links". As many have noted, his mind is not open to reality or even real time issues.

Thanks for exposing the "underbelly" of the 28% right here in our area.
God Bless America!

... ahh the 'detainees' held at Gitmo .. now there's an interesting situation.

Here's something I just learned.

After Anwar Al Sadat's assassination (1981), the Egyptian government rounded up everyone they could and put them in a common prison. There, in between tortures sessions, many of the Big Leaders of the Extreme Muslim movement (my term) met for the first time. Most thought their cells - typically only a dozen or so people - were "alone" in their ideals .. but they not only learned there were many other small cells like themselves, they spent their gitmo-time discussing radical Islamic philosophy and joining forces. al Qaida became cohesive and powerful.

"Have you ever considered why...blah, blah, blah"... Yes, we know...lack of water pumps, etc, etc, etc.

That is about as irrelevent now as is THE LIBERAL CANADIAN. They are there now, deal with it.

"They spent their gitmo time discussing radical Islamic philosophy"... Again, as about as irrelevent to the current situation as THE LIBERAL CANADIAN.
And if the left, backed by the aclu of course, had their way they would be released to unleash their "philosophies" on the US.

Don't fret over the "home grown" terrorists... the aclu has pulled the teeth of law enforcement and they are in no danger of being deported.

They can even take the oath on their Quran now. There, that'll prove to them we are a kind and accepting society. Perhaps they will forgive us for the lack of water pumps now. Surely they won't hurt us...how could they after we have extended the hand friendship to them via the aclu?

"No one know the number of terrorists vs. civilian caught in the crossfire'...
That wasn't the subject. The military knows the number terrorists thay have dispatched.
Why doesn't the lamestream American media know this? As far as I know they haven't been barred from receiving this information.

"The military knows the number terrorists thay have dispatched."

We must agree to disagree .. I don't believe it. Do the bad guys wear signs saying "I am dead now, but I was a terrorist"? Of course not. The military may have a guess, but I've also heard US leadership say the military is "not in the business" of counting bad-guy deaths.

Regardless, I conceded that "count" is not given during the every night news.

There have been cases of terrorists "dispatched" in the process of setting IED's .. and when the body was searched, papers were found proving the dead bad guy held a day job as an Iraqi Military Man good guy.

James,

Darryl is right on the money. NCP is like almost every other radical right-winged partisan who posts here. When any one of them are challenged on an issue, out comes the claws to attack. Unfortunately they do not attack the issue or the questions. They attack the person. NCP has attacked almost everyone, at one time or the other, who disagrees with his stance. He is famous for telling us how little we know and how much he knows.

You were singled out in this thread. Others of us were singled out in other threads. But as Darryl said, we, the reader can see who knows little and has nothing to offer but opinion. While all are entitled to their opinion, it is more informative and open-ended when one can provide some facts for discussion. And I am not necessarily speaking of internet links, although they do give a basis for some opinions. Included in one's truths are personal experiences or the experiences of those who make up their world.

It is none of NCP's business as to whether you work or not. Notice he didn't ask neocon if he worked and neocon post on almost every thread several times. You owe him nor anyone else an accounting of why you have time to research and post or how many posts you make. No matter what you say, their opinion of you remains the same.

Please continue to post your links and try to engage folks in factual discussions. That has been your MO since the start of this blog and there is no reason to change it now.

Yvonne,
Kitty Cat *NEVER* adds reason, only insults to those who post. That is all the right can come up with...and why the 28% is firmly entrenched. They rant about news outlets being biased, as if that absolves them of supporting failed policies, Bush's war, etc. There's no logic, but tons of "attack the messenger" retorts. Look at Kitty Cat's diarhhea of the mouth about "Water pumps" and "Candadian flags" while he can't add a meaningful thing to the discourse.

Questions never answwered:
1. What is so great about Bush's administration that causes you to ignore facts?
2. When does incompetence become acknowledged by 28%?
3. Why should Libby be pardoned, but Clinton reviled?
4. How has Bush made the world "safer"?

All we'll hear is "lamestream media" or "ACLU ruined country" and "limp wristed, panty waist, water pumps, Canadian flags" rather than ANYTHING remotely resembling a reasonable discussion.

:)

I have a request to make of all those who post here.

Will someone PLEASE recongnize the presence of THE LIBERAL CANADIAN.
His constant leg humping of his elders is getting embarrassing...

:>

I knew it! Little Kitty made my point crystal clear.
Thanks TM.

Well THE LIBERAL CANADIAN, looks like it ain't gonna happen. I had hoped some would give you a little pat on the rump out of spite for me, but they seem to correctly assume you ain't worth the baggage that comes with you.

James,
I owe you an apology and I offer it in this open thread. I attacked you and not the ideas and for that I am sorry. I just got caught this morning and errupted without considering the personal ramifications.

You are right. We arent too far apart on some issues and I am willing to at least listen to learn more. I hope you accept my earnest apology.

BTW THE LIBERAL CANADIAN, you chiding anyone about having a "reasonable discussion" is laughable. A quick scan back through this thread alone reveals the depth of your own "reasonable discussion". Here are just a couple of examples of the depth of your ignorance:

"Can't wait for MORE of the 28% to weigh in on this letter--Thanks NC Patriot, for getting the ball rolling!"

"JDR, YOU SPEAK MY MIND TOO!"... (a real heavyweight intellectual there)

Now here's an original:
"I just turned to that "liberal" media known as FOXNews & they can't seem to find your 'good' news either! Damn those liberals!"...heady stuff there for sure. Who can compete?

And in another leghumper:
"Thanks for exposing the "underbelly" of the 28% right here in our area."

All this 'intellect' from just one thread. I could go to other threads and gather more wisdom of THE CANADIAN LIBERAL, but it boggles the mind just putting these jewels all in one post. My keyboard is starting to smoke now. Better go.

NCPatriot,
You are to be admired for your honesty about attacking people. I'm serious here, as you have done what very few on the right have done and it is truly admiraable. Damn sure got my respect, and I'm sure a whole lot more! As you can see, following your post, some just wallow and wallow, hoping for others to hop in with them.
Thanks for the refreshing mea culpa. Imagine the good will "W" could foster with a little contrition...on ANYTHING

NCP - no prob' .. it is easy to jump to conclusions (having done that myself many times)

The reason I blog is to get new directions. It's also easy to fix one's thoughts .. and ideally blogging can send one in new directions - verifying those thoughts and / or showing one to be a fool (or just misinformend).

That's that all I ask - give some direction: Say something and have a solid reason or admit it is mindless - or admit it is just an opinion. I'm OK either way - but do get frustrated at the lack of push back - which frankly, I crave.

So the Lame Stream Media coverage is "Biased" .. OK ... but since the summer of 2003 there were reports that things were not all "flowers-at-the-feet of liberators" ... and maybe the biased media had been close to accurate - is that possible?

That's where we started - catch me on another thread. I Really am trying to learn.

"hoping for others to hop in with them"...

Have to point out that you are once again wrong, THE LIBERAL CANADIAN. How many comments do you see me make that start with:
"________ (fill in the blank) you speak my mind"!

Or:
" _________ Kitty Cat never adds reason"...

This is "trying to draw someone in".
I try to 'draw' no one in. I don't hump another's leg, then pant like a little puppy who is waiting for his treat to be tossed to him in the form of recognition.

Unlike you, I really don't care what anyone thinks of me, THE LIBERAL CANADIAN.
If they agree, fine. If they don't, fine.
I say what I think and don't look for cover in the crowd with comments like "You speak my mind, James"...or try to drag someone along with me as you do on a regular basis.

They still seem to be holding you at arm's length. I actually believed you'd get some support from a few of them to spite me, but it looks as if even their hatred for me isn't worth the consequences their reputations would suffer if they fall in line behind you.

Pitiful.

"There's no logic, but tons of "attack the messenger" retorts."

Posted by THE LIBERAL CONSERVATIVE [TypeKey Profile Page] | June 7, 2007 11:53 AM

"Oh, and don't come after my patriotism Dan, you little tin horn flag waver. I have a right to disagree just as much as you have a right to stick your nose up George Bush's ass!"
Posted by: DemonDeacon at June 12, 2006 05:34 PM

Denzien,
"He (Dan)does not read, and is a homophobe of the worst kind--"
Posted by: DemonDeacon at November 25, 2006 10:54 AM

"The best cure for you, but hell for your children, is for one of them to be gay."
Posted by: DemonDeacon at November 22, 2006 10:04 AM

"As to your buddies who run to your side, with bad grammar, last night's supper on them, and most likely no teeth, I gleaned this from a letter in today's paper..."
Posted by THE LIBERAL CONSERVATIVE | May 14, 2007 9:49 AM

"For those of us with intellect, Kitty and Danny are just "low hanging fruit", easy pickings for anyone with gray matter."
Posted by THE LIBERAL CONSERVATIVE | May 31, 2007 8:02 PM

"There's no logic, but tons of "attack the messenger" retorts."

Posted by THE LIBERAL CONSERVATIVE [TypeKey Profile Page] | June 7, 2007 11:53 AM

Quotes for his royal majesty of "attacking the messenger".

"There's no logic, but tons of "attack the messenger" retorts."

Posted by THE LIBERAL CONSERVATIVE [TypeKey Profile Page] | June 7, 2007 11:53 AM

I could post more, but the point is clear. Hypocrite.

Oh well, being the benevolent guy I am, I decided to post a few more:

"Dan, do you remember the literacy campaign from years and years ago that was called "RIF"? It stood for "READING IS FUNDAMENTAL". It truly is, and you must do more of it."
Posted by: DemonDeacon at December 17, 2006 11:22 AM

"Dan, I am wading through the bipartisan report on Iraq and would encourage you to begin reading it. Or you could just hang your brain on
the hatrack and agree with Rush,Hannity, and Neocon."
Posted by: DemonDeacon at December 8, 2006 12:59 PM

"When ARE you going to disconnect the FoxNews IV
and join the world of reality? We'd be glad to
welcome you aboard! LOL!"
Posted by: DemonDeacon at January 15, 2007 05:26 PM

Liberal Demon Conservative Deacon, you are the supreme deity when it comes to "no logic, attack the messenger" retorts. For you to even mention this award to anyone else is beyond ridiculous as proven above.

You are #1.

"There's no logic, but tons of "attack the messenger" retorts."

Posted by THE LIBERAL CONSERVATIVE [TypeKey Profile Page] | June 7, 2007 11:53 AM

I truly was going to stop but I found a BRAND new addition and it's priceless because it's chock full of elitism. This one is a new favorite, but I still like "little tin horn flag waver" too. I can't decide which one is the best.

neo,
"It is obvious from your posts that you do not belong to even a "lower middle class" socio economic base. Therefore you will NEVER know the life many of us at the higher ends live. Guess we pulled ourselves up from the bootstraps harder? You and your 'little' friend (that's me) are perfect together--you do make us smile."
Posted by THE LIBERAL CONSERVATIVE | June 7, 2007 12:13 PM

Who is "us" by the way?

Dan,
One thing's for sure. You have had multiple warnings and opportunities to shake off your ignorance and join the rest of the world. Too bad you spent all your time in your "narcissistic" world of archiving etc. :)

One other thing is true. Someone with all the above quoted attacks under his belt THEN saying "There's no logic, but tons of "attack the messenger" retorts" is very forgetful at best.

That smug, elitist quote to Neo was almost as good as "tin horn flag waver". Keep up the good work.

BTW, I noticed "tin horn flagwaver" will celebrate it's first anniversary on Tuesday June 12. I wish you had waited till June 14, as it would have been an excellent quote for Flag Day.

Dan,
Let it go. Most have moved on. Your narcisissm is so evident by your inability to just let go. No one cares about your archives......EXCEPT you.

No problem Demon Deacon, this one is getting stale. Just remember, when you make a statement like "There's no logic, but tons of "attack the messenger" retorts" about others who don't agree with you, I have the cold hard facts to prove you do the same frequently. I had to call you on it.

'Flag day'...that reminds me:

"Ned,
This is a great letter and I share your thoughts. As I contemplate another international trip with my family, I am even more disturbed at our standing in the world. While visiting London and France, we sewed Canadian flag patches to our backpacks---it saved us from the ire of many and we met many new friends through that act. I only wish we did not have to do that again.
Thanks again for your letter."

Posted by THE LIBERAL CONSERVATIVE

...London and France. Sigh...

This was in response to a lte from Ned Cline urging President Bush to surrender to the terrorists in Iraq.

This was the beginning of the end for THE LIBERAL CANADIAN. Since he made this post, only the most die hard fan and true believer sweet pea, will even recognize his presence with a "you speak my mind TLC".

I'll take my spot down here below "the lower middle class socio economic base" any day of thee week...:]

Dan,
You prove, ONCE AGAIN, you just like to feel important. You couldn't let it go, you just had to post AGAIN! You might want to glue a definition of NARCISSISM to your mirror. I'm sure you'd see it often.

"There's no logic, but tons of "attack the messenger" retorts."

Has nothing to do with me or my importance Demon Deacon. You simply cannot admit the truth that your little statement above is incongruous with your constant barrage of "attack the messenger" retorts. Sounds as if you have never attacked anyone huh? As I said, forgetfulness at best, as I'm being nice.

I called you on the statement, backed it up with your own quotes, you can't admit the truth, rather you choose to deflect it upon some silly BS about narcissism.

I realize admitting the truth is a difficult pill for you to swallow. I'm not asking you to stop your relentless barrage of personal attacks, some of them are quite humorous. Just quit whining if others choose to do the same.

Dan,
You are such a simpleton. They say imitation is the purest form of flattery, so I should be flattered by your copying of my words---but coming from you, I'm not really impressed.
You just can't stand the fact you are now joined at the hip with neocon.!

LAUGH OUT LOUD! :)