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As a small business owner let met explain what I see every day first hand and to establish a baseline I don't use any Hispanics in my business. When I go to fill a position in which starting pay is 20-23k a year with paid Holiday's, health, dental, retirement, sick days and good growth potential I run an ad in this trusty paper. My requirements are a clean driving record and a good work ethic. I will get about 10-15 responses and after I sort thorough the DWI and criminal records I might have 1-2 that I can consider. I rarely ever find someone to hire this way. I add 2-3 new jobs per year and this is the main reason I don't grow faster. If I had to hire any more It would be very difficult, I see many companies that are much more dependant on labor struggle to fill their jobs even with immigrant labor. You are living in a fantasy world if you think there are thousand of "Americans" out here losing there jobs due to immigrants in this area. In case you haven't checked our unemployment rate is under 5% which includes stay at home mom's, students and people who chose not to work after that there is not a lot to pick from. Another myth is that they take jobs for low pay, Most I know make a very fair wage for their job and many make more than their white counterparts doing the same job because they are willing to work harder and faster. Unlike many of our eroding labor pool they still understand the old equation of start at the bottom learn the job move up the ladder. Most Americans I interview start with what they are not willing to do rather than what they will do to succeed. While we need a way to track and understand everyone here we would all be in for a rude awakening if tomorrow they were all gone. Another myth I see is they don't pay taxes, I know very few if any who pay cash to these workers, they take taxes and ssi out and send it in just like everyone else but the difference is they will never get any benefits back because of a lack of a valid SS number. I do see them in the schools and emergency rooms but hey are right there with the American born people who claim 5 dependants and get the earned income credit which is usually about 2-3000 in free money from our government, I don't disagree there are problems with the current system but let's have viable solutions rater than off the hip send em all back ideas which will do nothing but cost everyone the next time they complain their grocery bill is already to high.

This lte writer is right on the money.However turfncsu makes some great points. I hired for a top 500 company for years. We got about 7 out of a hundred. They either could not pass a simple test are they failed the drug test.I have been in retirement for 8 years, and I know companies that can not fill 60K plus hourly jobs.I understand his problem. However, very few illegals pay taxes on income. They do pay sales taxes.They also keep our schools and medical offices over run with free services. If we allow this uncontroled illegal flow in this country to continue there will be no middle income America. As soon as there is a down turn in the job market, and there will be at some point and time, working americans will take the hit.My wife has been trying to hire a brick mason for weeks, seems the illegals have filled the jobs.She got a elder man yesterday, he told her, not many of us left. However my main concern is things like happened at JFK yesterday. The new immigration bill is another major catch and release program. If you watch John McCain on tv he flips and flops on every issue on this.Most americans are against this bill, yet our congress could care less what we think. Bush who I have supported to long, implied that we americans were DA on this subject.
If you can find Lou Dobbs on this issue, he seems to be well informed. What would I do to help the labor shortage, I would use inmates(low risk) and give them half the pay and keep the other half to pay their room and board. From what I have seen of this it works well.We have used them at the golf course for years,and have had no problems.

turfncsu,

We all draw from personal experiences when we contribute to any conversation, including this blog. I am not discounting your experiences as they are yours'. However, my experiences with illegals from Mexico are quite different from what you have related.

Perhaps it is because my area is totally saturated with those illegals and they are the majority. Conversely, legal citizens are in the minority in my town. Remember power in numbers is a different ballgame. The "crowd mentality" is prevalent, alive and well.

I know illegals take jobs from Americans. It is a myth that is well perpetuated by the powerful Hispanic Liaisons across the country that they do jobs Americans won't do. I know many citizens who lost jobs to illegals so large corporations can expand their profit margins. Americans will do the jobs, just not for the meager earnings these corporations want to pay.

The money illegals earn goes a long way because ten-fifteen of them share a house, two or three cars and all the freebies from the government. What we need is a disincentive for them to stay once they come here illegally. As long as citizens promote amnesty and looking the other way, they will keep coming until America is just the northern part of Mexico.

You may think I am being an alarmist. I can assure you I'm not. All you have to do is look at the pattern of entry since the last amnesty was granted. History will keep repeating itself plus get worse with each amnesty. To me, that is like doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

"...because they are willing to work harder and faster." From my own experiences, I find this to be a false statement. They have a don't care attitude because they know if they lose one job, another employer is just around the corner. Seven years ago a contractor, who had all hispanic workers (which I did not know at the time of hire), was adding to and remodeling one of my homes. The lack of productivity was astounding and the workmanship beyond poor. Almost every week there was a new crew who didn't know how to continue a started project. Thus they ripped out and started all over. The contractor had gone a year over our contracted finish date and the quality of work was so poor I had to fire him. When I hired another contractor I made sure he sent no hispanics to my home.

If we don't "round them up and ship them back", let us at least start to make their stay in America a little tougher, a little less accommodating. Stop all freebies from the government, heavily fine companies who hire illegals and make them obey the same laws citizens have to obey. America took care of itself before all this influx of illegals, who take but give little back, and can do so again.

Many good points above. One of turfncsu's points is particularly noteworthy:

"Another myth I see is they don't pay taxes, I know very few if any who pay cash to these workers, they take taxes and ssi out and send it in just like everyone else but the difference is they will never get any benefits back because of a lack of a valid SS number." Illegals are readily able to get fake ss#'s.

Employers collect Fed, State and Social Security taxes under these phony numbers, which our government gladly accepts. However, if an illegal dares to ask for Social Security benefits down the road, the government suddenly notices his number is fake, and denies the benefits.

Our government could clamp down on illegal immigration effectively if it focused on businesses instead of border security. It would be putting the heat on people who have something to lose rather than destitute Mexicans trying to sneak across the border for an $8/hour job.

The millions of illegal immigrants are second-class citizens who handle the most menial jobs in our economy. If we clamp down on illegal immigration, then the immigrants we legally accept would have basic rights. We might find we need to legally allow more than the current limit, which would probably be fine if we got rid of the illegal ones.

The "guest worker" program simply legitimizes the current state of affairs. We would openly have second-class citizens working the menial jobs.

Folks, your government is blackmailing you, and I'm talking about Bush, Congress, and prominent officials from both parties. They're saying they can crack down illegal immigration, but won't do so unless we legalize them via this "guest worker" program. Don't let them do it!

Turfncsu,

I just wanted to correct one of your statements i.e. "In case you haven't checked our unemployment rate is under 5% which includes stay at home mom's, students and people who chose not to work after that there is not a lot to pick from."

From the department of labor

Because unemployment insurance records, which many people think are the source of total unemployment data, relate only to persons who have applied for such benefits, and since it is impractical to actually count every unemployed person each month, the Government conducts a monthly sample survey called the Current Population Survey (CPS) to measure the extent of unemployment in the country. The CPS has been conducted in the United States every month since 1940 when it began as a Work Projects Administration project. It has been expanded and modified several times since then. As explained later, the CPS estimates, beginning in 1994, reflect the results of a major redesign of the survey.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_faq.htm#Ques2

In other words it doesn't include those folks that you said it does. It only includes folks that are eligible and have applied for benefits and as a count of total unemployment is of limited usefulness.

Actually they do pay taxes on income as do their employers with the exception of claiming 5 and paying the minimum they can't get around the system unless they work for cash. I also represent an industry group that contribute 60,000 jobs and has an economic impact of over 8 billion that this is a serious problem for and I hear it from everyone who owns or works for a business that depends on manual labor. Yvonne, I too have had Hispanics work for me at my house and I do get frustrated that communicating my needs are sometimes misunderstood. I won't get on the prisoner idea but I support it although I wouldn't pay them anything since we all will be buying them a new jail soon as well as free health care but no one wants to ship these people off! Yvonne, you paint these people as a bunch of packrats looking to rip us all off and I disagree with that, every segment of society has their group of less desirables but there are far more hard working people with young families who just want a better life than you make it out. I am for opening our borders to all but we have to have a viable labor pool and without these workers it is not here! Plain and simple!
Let's also not mistake the loss of factory jobs oversees to local labor issues, our economy is shifting from and we must adapt. This is similar to what happened after the great depression when everyone left the farms for the factories and people thought they would starve. I don't want to sound insensitive to the unskilled worker but if you’re in fear of your job go to school and improve your skills to make yourself indispensible. This is the basis of our economy! Maybe you hired the wrong one Yvonne but when it is July and 100 degrees outside I never hear the Hispanics say I can't do it any more (although they don’t like rain)
If you doubt me ask anyone who’s has ever employed them in the landscape industry
and they will take Hispanics any day over Americans for crew positions and I have known many move into foreman and management because they were willing to learn English and make very good money. We have to stop looking at the person in the line at the grocery store in front of you and start looking at our whole economy as a whole. It is about Jobs and without labor they will not get done and the whites and blacks aren’t lining up to do them folks!

More from my cut & paste file.

This is a darn interesting article.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html

One statement that stick out and is salient to the lte...

If illegal aliens were legalized and began to pay taxes and use services like legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual fiscal deficit at the federal level would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total federal deficit of $29 billion.

The influx of illegals is a taxpayer subsidized low cost workforce that boosts corporate earnings at the cost of workers wages.

They used to say that illegals were only working jobs that Americans wouldn't do. Now they are working jobs that Americans would do if the wages hadn't been driven down so low. Pay attention to this debate. It is going to influence your and your childs futures. Between the open borders that we've had for years and the massive outsourcing of jobs (also government subsidized) that we've had ordinary people are seeing their prospects narrow year by year.

How are you going to get business to stop hiring illegals when city,county,state and federal governments are hiring them also.

BTW Yvonne, the line in your last paragraph, "Stop all the freebies from government" , is that just for hispanics or everyone else?
If everyone would correctly replace the word government with taxpayer when referring to who pays we would all get a better understanding of who is actually getting ripped off here.

just please, dear god, get them out of my line in wal-mart...

turfncsu,

I cannot see the difference in the non-violent criminal and the hard working illegal. They both have committed a crime, be it civil or criminal, imo. I don't understand you who want to split hairs and forgive illegals but come down on citizens who smoke/sell weed. (Just for clarification, I don't do either.)

As I said, our experiences with illegals are different. Since I work at the local hospital and my town is >60% hispanic, I see so many abuses by them I am sickened by it. And I would rather pay double to someone who does not use them in their workforce than pay half to those who do. As long as people take such an apathetic or sympathetic attitude towards illegals, our troubles will only worsen.

Say I lived here all my life and could not get ahead no matter how hard I worked. Would it be OK with you if I broke the law to advance my lot in life? After all, I just want my and my childrens' circumstances to improve. To me, this is what you are advocating when you excuse all the illegal immigration.

BTW, I've never heard anyone say they couldn't do something they were hired to do because it was too hot, be they white, black or hispanic.

"Yvonne, you paint these people as a bunch of packrats looking to rip us all off and I disagree with that, every segment of society has their group of less desirables but there are far more hard working people with young families who just want a better life than you make it out."

If they are not here to rip us off (and take over), why is the health department always filled to capacity with hispanics? Why do most of them have free health care by the time they are in our country less than a week? Why do they seek subsidized housing and food vouchers? Why are they demanding "rights" they are not entitled to nor have earned? Why does it cost the taxpayers over $5,000/year/child to educate the children of illegals? Why do they send their money home to Mexico rather than pouring it back into the economy here? I could go on but I'm sure you get the idea.

Clearly no group of people is all bad. However, that is not the issue here. It would not make any difference if everyone who crossed the border illegally were saints AFTER they cross illegally. The issue is, they enter illegally and drain our economy while people who were born here are neglected. The issue is American taxpayers are paying for all who use government freebies (which includes most).

Overtaxed,

I believe anyone physically and mentally able to work should do so until that golden age when retirement has been earned. That being said, my statement was pertaining to all illegals, be they hispanic or otherwise. I believe charity begins at home. If my taxes are going to be doled out to the needy, I want it to go to citizens of my home, the USA.

Yvonne,

You go girl! I think you hit most of the important points. My wife also works in health care & has had the same experience.

The fact is that each of us has a role in subsidizing the very people that are taking our jobs. Employers may like the cheap labor but they are undercutting native borns ability to achieve the American dream. I work with many (probably mostly illegal) immigrants & they are generally good dependable employees but breaking the law is breaking the law. If we wink and enjoy the cheap groceries or lawn work then we are accessories.

yvonne,
I'm sure you could right a book about emergency room abuses! I have been there a few times (I have health insurance)and never cease to be amazed with the people of all races that abuse it and cost us all! I am not for blanket amnesty but please provide a solution for the problems you have noted without turning our economy upside down! I actually would benifit as a business owner because many of the companies I do work for use these employees and without them they would sub more out to me. I do realize my personal short term gain would cost me in the long run as a consumer. It is an interesting quandry that most of my friends who normally vote republican are fed up with them on this issue and support the democratic solutions! I am so dislusioned with our goverment as a whole i think it is time to clean house and start over.
Oh by the way, I asked a potential employee if he had a problem lifting 50 lb bags 10-15 times a day and his response was "I hate manuel labor" I have seen many people hired at jobs all my life work one day and never show up when they new what the job was from the beginning! I have also seen people walk and sit in the truck until quiting time because it was to hot or to cold. You would obviously not see this working in an air conditioned enviroment!

Here's an angle not often mentioned: The Social Security and Medicare Systems are headed for bankruptcy in the not-too-distant future. To forestall the date, one of two things must happen: Reduce the payments or increase the revenues.

Reducing the payments ... or at least voting to do so ... is certain political suicide. Voting to raise the taxes is also politically risky. Few of the politicians currently or soon to be in office will advocate either of these options. So what is a pragmatic politician who wants to get into or remain in office to do?

Increase the tax base. By legalizing millions of relatively young workers already here and allowing millions more to come each year, these politicos put off the inevitable debacle until they are LONG out of office.

Hmmm.

We are experiencing a mass South to North migration that no fence, or border patrol can stop. The only solution is to get the corporations who choose to relocate to Asia, to instead, put their plants in Central and South American Countries. That is the ONLY way the migration will be stemmed.
While a wall sounds great, it will cause the collapse of countries South of us which will in turn cause greater harm to the security of our own country. Anything short of this is but a stopgap measure.

TLC, is not the coporation migration what NAFATA & CAFTA were supposed to do, supply jobs so the native peoples would have viable employment? It seems that most of those corporations have moved from Central/South America to Asia. So, what do we do now?

And for the record, I agree that a fence or border patrol is not going to do a great deal to slow down the influx of illegal citzens. Yet, just granting amnesty every 15-20 years is not helping the situation either. That only exasberates it!

To stop this problem, the corporations/companies are going to have to be where the FED steps in and begins enforcing the law. When that happens, you will see change. Until then, what Yvonne speaks of will continue.

Shalom

I'm with bucky on this one. It pisses me off to go to Wal-Mart and have illegals congregating in the middle of the aisles, running into me with their carts and having their unimmunized kids wiping boogers all over the gum machines, etc.

I was in Wal Mart last night, it was over run with latinos and all the woman were pregrant. Welcome to free stuff from your congress.
We heard so much on border security, this bill calls for a $50 fine illegals crossing the boarder. Damn parking ticket cost that much. Can you say the Americans sold out by congress and the president.

I received this email a couple of months ago and was waiting for a good time to share it with you folks. It was my laugh of the day when I first read it.

Becoming Illegal (From a Maryland resident to his senator)

The Honorable Paul S. Sarbanes
Senate Office Building
309 Hart
Washington DC, 20510

Dear Senator Sarbanes,

As a native Marylander and excellent customer of the Internal Revenue Service, I am writing to ask for your assistance. I have contacted the Department of Homeland Security in an effort to determine the process for becoming an illegal alien and they referred me to you.

My primary reason for wishing to change my status from U.S. Citizen to illegal alien stem from the bill which was recently passed by the Senate and for which you voted. If my understanding of this bill's provisions is accurate, as an illegal alien who has been in the United States for five years, all I need to do to become a citizen is to pay a $2,000 fine and no income taxes for three of the last five years. I know a good deal when I see one and I am anxious to get the process started before everyone figures it out.

Simply put, those of us who have been here legally have had to pay taxes every year so I'm excited about the prospect of avoiding two years of taxes in return for paying a $2,000 fine. Is there any way that I can apply to be illegal retroactively? This would yield an excellent result for me and my family because we paid heavy taxes in 2004 and 2005.

Additionally, as an illegal alien I could begin using the local emergency room as my primary health care provider. Once I have stopped paying premiums for medical insurance, my accountant figures I could save almost $10,000 a year. Another benefit in gaining illegal status would be that my daughter would receive preferential treatment relative to her law school applications, as well as "in-state" tuition rates for many colleges throughout the United States for my son.

Lastly, I understand that illegal status would relieve me of the burden of renewing my driver's license and making those burdensome car insurance premiums. This is very important to me given that I still have college age children driving my car.

If you would provide me with an outline of the process to become illegal (retroactively if possible) and copies of the necessary forms, I would be most appreciative. Thank you for your assistance.

Your Loyal Constituent,

XXXXXXX

Yvonne, that is toooooooo funny!

Where do I sign up?

Shalom