News-Record.com

The blimp makes a few million off the gullible with a propaganda film and you think this "seriously" addressing the healthcare 'crisis'?

No doubt Mary will leave the theatre with the buoyant feeling that Michael Moore and Kucinich are actually interested in her health...pitiful.

Neocon, you spoke my mind before I could. Mary is seriously deluded if she thinks that Michael Moore and Dennis the Menace are the people to seriously address health care. What a bad joke about a serious matter. We need some improvements in our health care delivery system, but it won't come from these two bad actors.

Michael Moore is Sicko

I haven’t seen the movie but intend to watch it. Movie and health care critics say the movie is biased against the insurance and drug companies, but who except congress and the administration is defending them? Who in their right mind would defend them unless they were already bought and paid for by lobbyists?

No matter the slant of the movie, the critics also say the overall premise is undeniably true and the facts presented are difficult to argue with. Also, they say it is hard not to be moved by the health care victims’ own stories. For those who have seen the movie, what parts of it did you find to be patently untrue?

Regardless of what you think of the movie or Michael Moore:

Who believes there isn’t a crisis in health care in the U.S.?

Who doesn’t believe there are 10’s of millions of WORKING people who want and need health care but simply cannot afford it?

Who of you have health insurance and just don’t give a damn about the working people and their families with no health care?

If you believe there is a crisis, if you believe that millions of hardworking people can’t afford health care, and if you do give a damn, what do you think should be done about it?

I'm no Michael Moore fan, but this Sicko tackles an issue that isn't dem or repub. It's American.

Let's get off the political party bandwagons long enough to address this disturbing issue.

Neocon, Runner, don't discount the movie or the subject because of how you feel about Mr. Liberal Moore. Open your minds. All us liberals aren't out for blood. We want to make this country a better place to live. I don't agree with everything the libs stand for. Hell, I'm behind a republican for President.

I intend to see the movie. It's sure to be entertaining. I also wanna see transformers....so many good movies to see.

I can see your points VOR & Brian, I don't disagree that our health care system has problems, mainly affordability, not quality.
That being said, I don't think govt. run health care is the answer. We've discussed this issue numerous times. I've linked sites with waiting times in Canada to have medical procedures. I experienced a year of socialist health care in France.

We already have health care for the truly needy under Medicaid, the elderly under Medicare, and no one can be denied treatment in an emergency dept. regardless of ability to pay. Many of my hospital clients tell me they write off millions annually because of people who will not pay.

They also get illegals who have fake IDs and/or addresses and cannot contact them much less get payment.

Remember the old days when the doctor would send you a bill? Not anymore. Why? Because a lot of people won't pay these days!!

People who get stuck in this system are working people who are self employed or who work for a company without health insurance. My health insurance is my 3rd largest expense right after taxes and the mortgage. It's more than my car payment!

I'll run a few solutions up the proverbial flag pole:

Make money paid for health insurance and other expenses (co pays, etc.) 100% tax deductible.

Clamp down of excessive jury awards. Malpractice insurance has skyrocketed and guess who pays for it?

Furnish cheaper insurance plans that cover catastrophic illnesses and accidents. The insured pays for minor issues. I had one of these when I first started my business but it was only available for a short term.

Resolve the problem with illegals in our country. Shut the border tomorrow. Then deal with illegals here now, including health care.

Establish more user friendly medical savings accounts. This can be deducted from one's paycheck. I looked into this for my family but it ended up being more expensive with less benefits than what I have now.

Just a few ideas. I don't see why the govt. is seen as a solution to this problem given how inefficient the govt. is with other services.

If the govt. can only build two miles of a 700 mile fence on the Mexican border, do you really want it to be in control of your health care?

~

In this film, Michael Moore declares Senator Clinton to be "sexy."

Assuming Mr. Moore has sufficient funds to consult a decent ophthalmologist and to buy quality corrective lenses, clearly, the man's mental acuity and judgment is gravely impaired.

How can anyone take him seriously?

~

"Neocon, Runner, don't discount the movie or the subject because of how you feel about Mr. Liberal Moore. Open your minds."

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd pay to see neocon with an "open mind"!
That would signal armegeddon, THE rapture, or whatever ....

********************
Funny how our partisan hacks don't even want discussion about a dire subject unless it is marked by an "R".

Dan,
Great to see you posting with some substance! In fact, in regards to healthcare, you are now promoting many of the things in the so called "Hillary Care" initiative. Too bad the partisans had to throw the baby out with the bathwater JUST because it was a Democratic initiative.

"Establish more user friendly medical savings accounts. This can be deducted from one's paycheck. I looked into this for my family but it ended up being more expensive with less benefits than what I have now."

That is our President's plan you are talking about! How dare you!

By the way, will the above "critics" of Michael Moore tell us "IF" you saw Farenheit 911 OR SICKO?

I imagine that most of the ranting about Moore comes from the ones with their heads in the sand. PROVE ME WRONG...PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG!

Fox News gives the movie sicko a thumbs up. That should tell you that this isn't your typical Michael Moore movie. If the Drudge report put out something on the health care crisis I would go see it because the health care industry is backwards as it can be. Neoconand Runner please understand that our health care industry is a joke. Thats what Michael Moore is trying to point out. I cant believe that you and Hillary Clinton have the same views on health care. Clinton has taken a ton of money from health care lobbyist. Second most in the Senate. She believes things are good like they are now, just like you Neocon and Runner. Could you imagine if you had a fire at your house and they get there and say we can put that out for 10,000 dollars. If you dont have it your house burns down. Why can't we have a system like Canada? The reason we won't is because there are to many politicans and health care big-wigs making millions off our backwards sysytem.

"Why can't we have a system like Canada?"

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/qual/acces/wait-attente/index_e.html

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/qual/acces/wait-attente/index_e.html

http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?snav=nr&id=753

"The waiting time between referral by a GP and consultation with a specialist rose to 8.8 weeks from the 8.3 weeks recorded in 2005."

"The waiting time between specialist consultation and treatment—the second stage of waiting—fell to 9.0 weeks from 9.4 weeks in 2005."

So you go to a GP with a lump in your breast, testicle, whatever.....wait 8.8 weeks to see the specialist.....wait 9 more weeks until the surgery. FOUR AND A HALF MONTHS!! By the a small, perhaps treatable, tumor has spread cancer to other parts of the body.

Other option if funds allow. Travel to the US get surgery in two weeks perhaps.

Which would you choose for your and/or your loved ones IJ?

“Clamp down of excessive jury awards. Malpractice insurance has skyrocketed and guess who pays for it?”

Dan, I agree that malpractice awards are a big part of the problem, and many of your recommendations are good, however, these alone won’t stop the price gouging by the insurance and drug companies. When you make insurance for the self-employed, the employees working for companies without benefits, and the people with pre-existing conditions impossibly expensive, you’ve basically denied them coverage and no amount of tax cut or savings account will make it affordable. The reason, Medicare, Medicaid, and big company health plans are affordable is because of their bargaining power. So if you don’t think Government (like Medicare and Medicaid) is the answer, you might still like something like I described in the post on 7/3 under the LTE Real Health Care Reform is Needed and Overdue:

“Some states have started to push for affordable mandatory health insurance. The price will be lower so most can afford it and if so, must carry it. These types of plan are patterned after the health care plans offered to Government employees. The program offers several insurance companies to choose from with different amounts of benefits and coverage. Another advantage of the Govt. employees’ plan is that coverage can’t be denied for a pre-existing condition. (Currently, if you have a serious pre-existing condition, it is virtually impossible to get coverage and people do die.) What makes the program work is the large number of people covered. This gives the group an enormous ability to negotiate reasonable prices. Medicare and Medicaid have always had this leverage. The private insurers then put pressure on the doctors, hospitals, etc. to lower prices. The free market is still operating but the ability to price gouge is reduced.”

Non-government intervention and free markets are OK for some things, but with the lobbyists for insurance and drug companies writing the health care legislation, I don’t think we have either.

Greetings all. Just thought I'd chime in on a pet peeve of mine: excessive jury awards and their link to health care. Dan makes some good points, and is likely more knowledgeable than I am because of his profession, but he is off the mark on this particular point.

In the 2004 election, The Dems were stating that frivolous lawsuits accounted for less than half a percent of all the money spent on healthcare, and the Republicans said that the amount of all lawsuits -- frivolous and justified -- was around 2% of the total cost of healthcare. Yet whenever Bush was asked about his plan for improved healthcare, he cited tort reform.

The "juries are handing out $20 million malpractice judgements like candy" myth is a complete smokescreen brought to you by a very partisan congress that knows on which side the bread is buttered. I agree that doctors now have to pay more for malpractice insurance, and I see my premiums go up 10% each year, and the common thread there, to me, is the insurance companies. I don't see how anyone could see it differently. To blame personal injury lawyers, to me, is like blaming the cost of gasoline on the guy who works at the BP on the corner. A very, very small part of a much, much larger issue.

That's just my $.02. I don't know all the answers to this problem, but I know what the answer certainly isn't. Tort reform would have virtually no impact on how much we pay for healthcare.

From memory - too busy to relook up:

Excess Jury Awards: 3%

TV Pharma' Ads for ailments you didn't know you had: 10%

Paper work through the system: 30%

Sexy last ditch drugs & procedures to keep folks alive 1 more day / week / month: 30%

Deal with those only and problem solved.

"Let's get off the political party bandwagons long enough to address this disturbing issue."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you were the first to bring up 'political and liberal', Mr. Harper. Quickly picked up and echoed by THE LIBERAL CANADIAN, of course complete with his usual "R by their name" drool.

Going to watch 'SICKO' to learn about the health care 'crisis' makes about as much sense as watching 'Seinfeld' to learn about life in NY. But to each his own...

My solution to the problems facing health care would be to eliminate all 3rd party payers and put a cap on jury awards. You go to the Dr., you write the check.

Jury awards may not contribute directly to out of control costs, but they do contribute greatly to higher costs in the form of 'defensive medicine'...Doctors ordering additional tests and 2nd and 3rd opinions from 'specialists' that may not be really necessary, but are done as a CYA precaution.

Those who advocate government run health care need only look at social security, public 'education', and the waste and fraud that the welfare state has wrought to have an idea of what health care would be like with uncle ted calling the shots.

Just my $0.02 worth...your mileage will vary.

"Excess Jury Awards: 3%"

JDR,

Here's what I found. I pick this point because it is flogged by the Republic party as THE solution.

"But even large savings in premiums (from tort reform) can have only a small direct impact on health care spending--private or governmental--because malpractice costs account for less than 2 percent of that spending."

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdoc.cfm?index=4968&type=0

Clearly this is not the magic bullet that the Republic party claims. It is merely a distraction from the real problem and a slap at a political adversary.

Dan,

All of your ideas have some merit but the system itself is rotten. The AMA is the last effective union in the country. Rich folks don't have a problem paying for health care. Poor folks don't have a problem paying for health care (though they often wait until it gets really expensive). Guess who has a problem paying for health care.

VOR, JDR, Howie, Rufus and especially Independent J. I appreciate all of your comments and I understand your points of view.

However no one has answered my question to Independent J. Would you rather have a Canadian style health care system where you have to wait 4.5 months for surgery after your GP discovers a lump somewhere in your body?

Bottom line, who favors the govt. in control of your health care?

Goverment run health care in Germany already has shorter wait times than we do for GP's. It can be done. There are just to many paeople making millions off our poor health as Americans. I guess the best policy is to stay healthy as best you can. Dan, thanks for the mature discussion its what this country needs more of. Later folks

As I see it, one of the major problems with health care in our country is allowing insurance and pharmaceutical companies to write their own ticket. Non-medical people are allowed to decide what you and your doctor can and cannot do with regards to your treatment. These people are working for the companies I mentioned.

As I stated in an earlier post, insurance companies are among the richest companies in the world. Lots of money means lots of power. Unfortunately they abuse their power. So holding them accountable, by law, for gouging and working against the public welfare is a stamaintarting place.

Require the government to stop the practice of giving almost every illegal crossing the border a Medicaid card. Stop giving non-citizens free health care except on an emergent basis. At least 90% of the hispanics we see in the ER use the hospital as a doctor's office. And many of them are committing insurance fraud by using someone else's insurance/Medicaid card.

Put a cap on medications. It is more than absurd for one pill to cost $20, the amount I paid last year on two different occasions. (My co-pay was $25 so I "saved " $5/pill.)

Rather than putting mom or pop in a NH, care for them at home when possible. Many times, with the doctor's help, people can get paid by the insurance companies as a primary caregiver. It is cheaper for them than paying out $250-300/day for NH placement.

Get healthier. Lose weight, eat better, stop smoking, exercise more, reject foods that have been injected with hormones, practice health problem prevention.

When a president or congress member is no longer a in office, stop their "free health care for life" program. When one of us ends employment with a company, our benefits end. Why not with politicians? (Every time I think of Jesse and his wife getting bypasses in their eighties, at our expense, it burns my butt.)

As tough and hard hearted as it sounds, folks need to accept the fact we are all going to die one day. It is incredible the amount of money spent to flog the dead.

When a person has lived a good, long life and develops a terminal illness, why do family members insist that we do "everything" to keep their loved one alive. Too many times this means ventilator assisted breathing, drugs to keep the heart beating and endless total care. Rather than making the loved one comfortable and letting them go, we pump on their chests breaking ribs, stick a breathing tube down their throats and sedate or tie them down to keep it the tube in place, put in a gastric tube to feed them, poke and prod to start multiple IV's and blood draws. It is inhumane what we are required to do so someone can "live" in a chronic vegetative state and a crime what the taxpayers have to pay for this.

We need to stop letting politics get in the way of common sense. If a person is in severe pain, is dying of cancer or other terminal diseases and CHOOSES to end their life, why are moralists allowed to prevent their doctors from assisting them?

As a nation, we have to accept some responsibility for our contribution to high health care costs by making bad choices. Then we need to start doing what we can to make them affordable to more folks.

Dan got his question answered, and very well I might add, and then he disappears.
Thanks to all of you who have finally shut him up about tort reform. About a year or so ago, he blamed John Edwards for the rising cost of healthcare as if he were the root cause! As I've said before, Danny's an inch deep and a mile wide. Can't see anything other than being Republican as THE WAY. Oh, add the Catholic Priests to that too!
Looks like the shine is coming off that GOP wagon and now Danny has to come to grips with it. It's gonna kill him to admit that he's W-R-O-N-G about anything and especially if it's not endorsed by the "R" party! LOL!

I'm back, been working out of town most of the week. Some good points Yvonne, you ought to know as a medical professional.

What do you propose be done about insurance and pharma companies? Are you in favor or govt. run health care Yvonne?

I heard a local report on NPR yesterday about Moses Cone hospital. They have a clinic that serves low income people with minimum or no payments for basic health care needs. The spokesperson said the clinic actually saves them money because it reduces ER visits. He said an ER visit costs at least $1000 while a clinic visit costs around $100. He said Moses Cone wrote off $90 million, yes million, last year due to non-paying patients, the majority ER visits.

As I mentioned in my July 5 post, non-payments for medical care are a huge problem for hospitals. Someone has to make up the difference, paying customers that is.

Danny boy,
The public-private partnership that you heard about was done many years ago by Dr. Trudy Wade when she was chair of the Guilford Co. Board of Health.

Don't shed any crocodile tears for Moses Cone Health system--that 90 million was not anywhere close to what some hospitals in even smaller communities write off each year. The most inefficiently run business is private healthcare...and you are right, we all pay for it.

"The most inefficiently run business is private healthcare..." Is govt. run more efficiently?

Would you care to back that up with some factual statistics? I'll wait a few days for you to gather them.

Does that mean govt. can do a better job with YOUR health care? Yes or no. Betcha an appendectomy you can't answer that one honestly.

Dan,
Go see "Sicko" then for your own satisfaction, discount 75% of it as false. What is left will be your answer.

What? You won't go see it? Because of Michael Moore?
Are you THAT small minded!!
Should've known. :)

Never said our health care system isn't perfect, none is. My question is....would a govt. run system be more efficient? I've already provided links of a 4.5 month wait in Canada from visiting a GP to surgery. No one seems to want to answer that simple question. Wonder why.

Danny,
Once again, GO SEE THE MOVIE! Discount it down to only 25% being truth (appropriate number for the GOP Shills) and THEN tell us what you think.

By the way, your links are far from undeniable proof. But I must say, they are FAR better than the crazy websites your buddy neoKitty posts. Kudos to you on that.