News-Record.com

Dear Miss Eggleston,
The fact of the matter is, George W. Bush and the so-called "neoconservatives" who want this war do not give a damn about your son or anyone else who volunteered to serve in the armed forces in good faith that their sacrifice of time - and possibly more - would be used wisely.

I direct your attention to this article from the past few days:
"U.S. Toll in Iraq Lowest in 8 Months"
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070731/D8QNPVAG0.html

In their rush to spin this as "good news", those who cheer on this war betray the fact that *individual lives* do not matter to them at all. To Bush, Cheney and the rest of the Iraq warhawks, your son and every other armed forces servicemember is an expendable commodity that is to be spent and traded with no more interest than what one uses to participate in the stock market.

These people never bother to see the faces of the real men and women they put into harm's way, not seriously anyway. The people who send others to die for no reason never allow themselves to see real danger. That's for "lesser" folk. Not these supposed "masters of the world".

In my mind, anyone who could possibly applaud this "good news" is a soulless ghoul who has no concept at all about the preciousness of human life. They are egotists and nihilists of the highest order.

And if any of these warhawks actually buy into this "great news" about how the war in Iraq is going, then maybe they should put their money where their mouth is and join the Army post-haste. I mean, it's finally *safe* there now... isn't it?

Ms. Eggleston,
Did your son volunteer for service or was he drafted?
What I mean is, was he recruited into the service of his own free will, knowing full well what the consequences may be...or was he sent a notice in the mail notifying him to be at a certain place at a certain time or face penalties under federal law for draft evasion?

I have a nephew recently returned from Iraq and the son of a close friend will be sent there in November. Both were volunteers and both discussed with their parents before joining the military what the consequences may be. They fully understand that their nieces may may miss their 'beach buddy uncles' while they are away. They knew this going in and they know this now.

Godspeed to your son.

Meg, my heart breaks for you and your family. I can't imagine the fears and worries you must live with daily. May God Bless you all.

Neocon, you are unreal. Just because we have a voluntary army at this time does not mean that they signed up to be slaughtered for the egos of our "leaders".

Carol,
"Just because we have a voluntary army at this time does not mean that they signed up to be slaughtered for the egos of our 'leaders'."

Thank you for saying this. Some people, it seems, believe that to volunteer to serve in the armed forces makes one cannon fodder for whatever insane schemes our "leaders" want to use our military personnel for, to hell with what *anyone* has to say about it.

There will come a day in America where neoconservatives are as despised as much here as the Nazis are in modern Germany. I'm not the first to say that either, by the way.

Has anyone thought to blame the terrorist for this war? Not only that, you all seem to know George Bush so well in that he doesn’t care about our military men and woman serving our country. I believe he did what he thought was right in sending troops to the region to battle terrorist there rather than here. I know you have heard that. But it seems to go in one ear and out the other. This enemy can be defeated if every action taken was not politicized by both parties.
I don’t think her son should serve 3 and 4 tours of duty. But we can’t send more troops, one party wants to cut off funding for the military. Or redeploy them to somewhere safe. Get out now. Stay the course. Whatever. None of those things will do what her son is there to do. We need to go in there full strength take down any safe havens (masque included) and rid the area and country of the bad guys. Give the Iraqi Government a chance to do what they need to do. If they can’t do it then it’s on them and the people of Iraq.
God bless your son, my family and I pray everyday for your son and all the other sons and daughters that are there. My nephew will be going over soon and I am so proud of him and yes I worry for him and my sister. He knows why he’s going and he is prepared to do what it takes to defend this country. You can say or think what you want but the brave men and woman are there to defend you and your way of life. Maybe you have forgotten the affects of what happened on 9/11 but I wont I am still living with the results of that attack.

"Has anyone thought to blame the terrorist for this war?"

Sure we all agree on that - but George Bush recently said EVERY attack in Iraq was an al Qaida attack .. with is so freaking wrong and just hint the man is partially clueless having listened to only a handfull of people for the past 5 years. Do you truly doubt that?

==

"... he doesn’t care about our military men and woman serving our country."

I believe he cares deeply - and I'm not being sarcastically. I believe the same about Gates and Powell .. but Rummy and Rice and Cheney seem pretty oblivious.

==

"I believe he did what he thought was right in sending troops to the region to battle terrorist there rather than here."

Afganistan yes, that's where a broke and destitute Osasa with his new partner the destitute Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri were hiding along with about 3000 of the misguided.

Iraq NO - and if anyone believes we have made America safer or stronger or better because of that folly - I have a really nice bridge for sale.

That said .. "leaving in the wrong way" holds high potential for making a horrible situation much much worse.

==

"This enemy can be defeated if every action taken was not politicized by both parties."

Again we agree.

==

"Maybe you have forgotten the affects of what happened on 9/11 but I wont I am still living with the results of that attack."

Fine .. but now we are dealing with Osasa and al-Zawahiri - and the tens of thousands that have joined the original 3000.

"Has anyone thought to blame the terrorist for this war?"

Terrorists CAN'T be blamed for this war. Not for starting it anyway. Saddam Hussein had no involvement in 9-11.

Nothing regarding America's national security demanded going to war in Iraq circa early 2003. At least, there were never any reasons to have gone to war that exist outside the inner fog of the minds of Bush, Cheney et al.

Now if you want to blame terrorists for *prolonging* the war, then you might have an argument. Except that the only reason why Iraq might be a hotbed for terrorist activity today is because of the conditions within it that were engendered by this war initiated by the current leadership of the United States. These "terrists" could only be active in Iraq after Saddam was removed from power.

JDR and Christopher, you have expressed yourselves well. Would that others would see the light.

Dear Ms. Eggleston,
Your excellent "Counterpoint"
letter perfectly illustrates why this nation is manifestly NOT going to win the "war on terror" as we are fighting it now. Quite simply, we (the vast majority of Americans) are not involved in any way (except as Pres. Bush seems to count as involvement our
nightly "discomfort" as we watch the evening news). Proposals to revive the draft (or even require some sort of non-miliatry national service) are looked upon as crazy. So the attitude of "well, they (the military) are all volunteers and knew what to expect when they signed up!" prevails. This is not a "war winning" attitude...this is a "head in the sand" attitude that the Republican party specializes in promulgating....if you are a Bush Republican, you sincerely believe that the "war on terror" can be won by the armed forces we have now, and that we can indefintely go on spending about 2 billion per week with no negative effect on our economy.
That very message was clearly stated by Bush/Republicans in the '04 election and it worked.
Unfortunately, it is your family and families like yours who have sons and daughters deployed in Iraq that are paying the price for the general stupidity of the American electorate.

I wonder if this guy reupped since 2003. When talking about war, I find soldiers and veterans to be the most credible about how they feel about their own enlistment and how much worth there is in what they are doing.

The rest of us, including me, are nothing more than armchair quarterbacks.

Dear Nit-Picker,
I (kjliberal) retired from active duty in the U.S. Navy in
1994. I served for 15 years (took early retirement-as it was offered during the 1990's downsizing)...so yeah, I re-upped a few times....and it is my considered opinion that some sort of national service (whether military or civilian) should be required of all citizens to earn the right to vote...not a chance in hell of that actually happening, but I still think it would be a good idea....then all citizens would be able to say that they had actually done something for their country and their citizenship isn't just an accident of birth and we could stop this ridiculous checking for proof of military service as giving someone instant credibility.

Ms. Eggleston, As with many of the earlier letters, my heart goes out to you. I really hate to say this but our turn will come at election time. My phone calls, letters etc. are somewhere (???) Sorry we have to wait that long.

You're right nitpicker, Those who have 'been there, done that' speaks volumes about what they believe. My nephew has been in the military for about 18 years. (I think, give or take a year) He has re-upped a few times...most recently AFTER returning from Iraq last March. The son of my friend has not re-upped yet, but he plans to as soon as his current enlistment is up and that will be soon after he returns from Iraq. (whether he will or not remains to be seen)

We have an all voluenteer military now. This is a fact that the liberals would just as soon sweep under the rug and pretend that they were all innocent babes who were hoodwinked into fighting "Bush's war" and now all they want is out. This is simply not the case.

They went into the military knowing full well what they were doing, and many of them have decided to stay there... despite what the liberals would have us believe. They don't consider themselves "cannon fodder" in any way, shape, or form. They are adults who knew what it meant to sign on the dotted line.

As I've suggested before in the op-ed pages of this paper, people who cannot say something without attacking "liberals"/"conservatives" should be roundly ignored. They bring absolutely no real thoughts or ideas to this table. They are, quite literally, a waste of space (pagewidth and bandwidth if nothing else).

Neo - no argument with your last post - but the big facts are these:

We have been losing this war and may still be losing the war - even if "the surge" is successful and enough stability occurs that we can pull out with our heads held high - something we all want - there is ZERO guarantee things will remain calm - and there is Very High probability that that area will shortly thereafter resort to true chaos and the only two guarantees are that America is now weaker to deal with that chaos and that Radical Islamist are now stronger.

I have a question?
Did this person re up?
If he joined for 3 years, the math will not work.
First 6 months training, 12 tour of duty =18 months. 6 months home = 24 months, 12 month tour =3 years. I would like the lte to explain this in more detail. Another thing, this person joined, not like many of us , that got the greetings letter. Neocon, you are wrong, about they knew what they where doing. Many thought, they where going to do nothing and get paid. Then get a college degree on us. I have relative, that thought this.

This Counterpoint makes reference to her son as a "commander." So, if he is an officer I believe there is a slightly different set of rules regarding their service (if my memory serves me correctly).

Shalom

cRock-o-...feller, some are from the old school and define 'winning' as the enemy suffering a higher body count than the US military. Do you have any reliable figures as to the number of enemies our military have dispatched with, never again to hijack a jumbo jet and fly it into buildings here in the US? I'll admit I don't.
There may be many more of them now...time to put the big hammer down. (imo, of course)

Woody,
You are right. I didn't factor in the extremely niave. There will always be those in any situation...the military is no different in that regard.

Christopher Knight,
My day doesn't revolve around whether you 'ignore' me or not. Feel free, but if you are seeking a forum where 'liberal/conservative'(sp?) are seldom or never spoken, what in the hell are you doing on the opinion page of a newspaper where one group of people lean left and another leans right?
I suggest 'Harry Potter', 'My Pet Goat', or 'Fun With Dick & Jane'.

"... but if you are seeking a forum where 'liberal/conservative'(sp?) are seldom or never spoken, what in the hell are you doing on the opinion page of a newspaper where one group of people lean left and another leans right?"

I'm working to raise the level of intellectual discussion here, Mr. Tony Moschetti ...

... in spite of how much you are trying to lower it.

And just because you're so lacking in self-esteem that you have to latch onto a meaningless ideology to have any life's purpose, does not mean that others should feel obligated to do likewise.

The reality is there are a wide range of opinions about all facets of this war from those sitting on the outside looking in but more important even from those looking at that reality everyday.

Those who re-up do so for many reasons. Some do so because they believe fully in what is taking place which is fine if they so believe and there are those who would perfer to never see or hear the word Iraq again but out of a strong sense of loyalty to their friends in their unit they re-up for them. To try say those who re-up all do so for the same reasons is wrong.

We recently spent time with the son of my wife best friend. My wife is his god-mother. He is now stationed in Germany and was sent to Bahgdad the end of June. We were with him just prior to his departure. He is very proud to be in the army and would in his own words put his life on the line for it. But as strongly as he feels about that he feels just as strongly he has no business going to Iraq. He has met and spoken to many in his unit who have been there and for him this is not what he wants to put his life on the line for. And based on the comments from those in his unit he is not alone in this opinion.

Second I met two years ago on a flight home for Christmas a young man from Wilmington who is a tank commander and was in Iraq from the beginning. He had lost his best friend in an attack on a bridge in Bahgdad, which I remembered being reproted on CNN. He plans to make the military his career and is proud that he serves this country. But almost resigned he kept refering back to one theme and that was it was time for us "to the hell out of there" as he put it. He believed strongly that America could make a difference there, he was disappointed in how the news reported what was taking place there but in the end he saw it as a black hole that he felt was not longer worth trying to change.

When I read teh LTE I read a mom is frustated and angry and as a mom with a son in Iraq she has earned that right to this but I also knew there would be those who would jump on her for this. Sad!!

Define 'winning' as the enemy suffering a higher body count than the US military ... is BATTLE mentality, not WAR mentality.

Time to put the big hammer down? Again we disagree - the time was in the spring of 2004 when both the WH and the Pentagon say the insurgency was on the rise - but no, we had to stay the course to prove the PNAC was correct all along. The time was in the winter of 2006 when the Askariyya Mosque was blown up. HELLO .. ?? .. but no, we had to stay the course to prove the PNAC was correct all along.

(imo, of course)

We agree, however that IF we still had a hammer .. we should slam it down now ..

.. but "if" is both a small word in spelling and a BIG word in meaning.

"I'm working to raise the level of intellectual discussion here, Mr. Tony Moschetti ..."

Uh, I'm not Tony Moschetti, inspector Cloeseau. And one way to "raise the level of intellectual discussion here" would be posting a YouTube video of someone puking in a toilet?... Now I understand what true intellectualism is. Thanks.

cRock-o-...feller, do you have any accurate numbers of enemy casualties in the 'battle' in Iraq?

"We agree, however that IF we still had a hammer .. we should slam it down now .. "

We have plenty of hammers, Mr. cRock-o-...feller, the problem is finding someone with the guts to use them...(hint: it ain't George W. Bush)

Nowhere Man has the right idea:

"We need to go in there full strength take down any safe havens (masque included) and rid the area and country of the bad guys."

If we went "in there full strength" and took down a mosque, how long do you think it would take the lib...ahem...anti-war protesters to organize a rally, complete with pictures of Bush in his devil's horns, and whine about how evil America is for destroying such a sacred Muslim place? This is the reason this war in Iraq is still going on, imo, Bush & co. are trying to win a war while avoiding stepping on the toes of the lib...ahem...anti-war faction back home...can't be done.

JDR
You say we are losing the war.
I bet you also say you "support the troops".

Bet you got that from good ole Harry Reid.

neocon,
"Uh, I'm not Tony Moschetti, inspector Cloeseau."

Yes you are. You admitted that you were a month or two back.

"And one way to 'raise the level of intellectual discussion here' would be posting a YouTube video of someone puking in a toilet?... Now I understand what true intellectualism is. Thanks."

I'm detecting (a) a note of jealousy that you likely don't have the creativity or guts to do the same and (b) some anger, probably because I flushed your hero George W. Bush down the toilet.

And you're probably also jealous because you're seeing someone who DOESN'T fit into your childish worldview and it bothers you because you don't have the courage to also be your own man.

It's like this: ever see "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest"? In the asylum of life, I'm Randle Patrick McMurphy and you're one of "the nuts" too timid to do anything other than what Nurse Ratched tells you to do.

Nowhere Man:

I think it's clear we WERE losing .. why else would Georgie change-out the Sec' of Defense and implement a "Surge" police. Wouldn't it be in his political interest to "Stay the course"? ... well only if "Stay the course"? were truly working. Agreed?

Are we winning now? Maybe - the jury's still out (and will be for 15 years more).

Where there have been adequate and sustained US troops, insurgent and sect' violence is down (two different things). We'll have to wait to see if that holds once we leave.

Ditto where we have made deals with "reformed" Sunni insurgents - arming them. Ditto also we'll have to see how that plays out in the long run - there is great risk we're just arming the other side in preparation for a true blood bath once we leave .. but wait, this is positive news!

==

Now Neo wants us to Nuc the entire region - but it's possible he's not thought that out beyond Nuc'ing 1/2 the entire world if they get in his way.

As for tearing down a Mosque .. I dunno. One reason the count of insurgents has risen has been their perceived affronts we have perp'd on their religion - these people are religious nuts. Go to a Baptist Church on Sunday and stand on the pew to declare Jesus as a homo and you'll get a taste of religious nuts - then multiply that by 100 for Islamics.

I suspect tearing down a Mosque would work, but you might have to kill about 1/6th of the world's population before long term peace is achieved. All of which fits neatly into Neo's plan .. which will probably work .. as long as you and yours are not part of that 1/6th of the world's population.

One more thing - if you're going to get into partisan sniping, I ain't going there. Yea I bash - but it's usually well documented, specific, and relevant to the thread.

Inspector Cloeseau,
It's easy to search the archives. Show me where I said I was Moschetti. Thanks in advance.

"I'm detecting (a) a note of jealousy that you likely don't have the creativity or guts to do the same and (b) some anger, probably because I flushed your hero George W. Bush down the toilet"

Jealousy? puuuuleeeezzzzeeee. Don't flatter yourself.

Anger?...no. George W. Bush is not my hero. I thought it comical, and a bit pathetic, that a grown man would put a video of himself puking down the toilet on the internet.

So you're 'Randale Patrick McMurphy'?...
Wasn't he the one who had half his brain removed and lay around drooling all day until that injun put him out of his misery?

Whatever you say...

I always thought Nurse Ratchet's assistant was hot.

Christopher, you've had some good posts and write quite well. However, when it comes to creativity and spontaneous humor, neocon's got your number.

I enjoy your posts, though. I can only see one Superman/kryptonite flaw in your writing: you seem to think people actually give a shet what you think.

Seriously, though. If you want to truly raise the level of discussion around here, keep posting some of your good, inspiring rants instead of resorting to one upmanship battles with neocon. And don't go all Christopher Tew on us and try to exceed 300 words on every post. Quality beats quantity every day.

JDR, I love the "...declare Jesus as a homo.." comment! Actually, there is circumstantial evidence to support that!

Shalom

"Wasn't he the one who had half his brain removed and lay around drooling all day until that injun put him out of his misery?"

As McMurphy said earlier in the movie: "At least I tried, didn't I?"

What's your excuse neocon?

"Christopher, you've had some good posts and write quite well. However, when it comes to creativity and spontaneous humor, neocon's got your number."

neocon simply enjoys trying to hurt people without feeling sorry about it.

I'm not that way at all. And don't mind admitting that, either.

"And just because you're so lacking in self-esteem that you have to latch onto a meaningless ideology to have any life's purpose"...

"They are, quite literally, a waste of space (pagewidth and bandwidth if nothing else)".

"you're one of "the nuts" too timid to do anything other than what Nurse Ratched tells you to do."

And what these little tidbits supposed to convey, Mr. Christopher Knight, goodwill and peace?

"neocon simply enjoys trying to hurt people without feeling sorry about it."

Either you are unable to read or this is an out and out damn lie, sir. And I think you know how to read.

I NEVER attack ANYONE who posts here UNPROVOKED...on the other hand, there are some who THAT'S ALL THEY DO IS ATTACK ME.
And I never hear one little friggin peep out of independent writer and filmmaker, Mr. Christopher Knight (who's not that way at all, mind you. He's far above such trash, don't you know) when I'm called an uneducated, retarded, illiterate idiot who gets all his news from Hannity and Savage.

I think you are a hypocrite of the first order who calls on everyone to drop the 'liberal/conservative' (sp?) tags, then spews liberal bullshit all day long.

So again, if you don't like what I say and consider it a waste of "page width and bandwidth", simply don't read it. But when you speak to another person and refer to "some in here" and it's obvious you're attacking me, don't expect me to swallow your bilge and tell you 'good post' just because you don't call yourself 'liberal' or 'conservative'. (sp?)

Just like I said before, watching neocon take on Christopher Knight is like watching a squirrel try to stop a freight train.

I remember neocon admitting that he is Tony Moschetti too.

"A squirrel taking on a freight train"...

Deep thoughts there, 'The Blunt Truth'.

Well 'The Blunt Truth', perhaps you have the ability to search the archives and show me where I said I was Moschetti?

Moschetti's a tad too liberal for me. :]

'Moschetti's a tad too liberal for me.'

Then you're an even bigger loser than he is.