News-Record.com

~

Patsy,

"WHY" are you homeschooling?

If it is because of religious reasons, then why don't you want your children to attend school with "God's Rainbow" of children? You know, "Red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight. Jesus loves the little children of the world".

If it is because you "feel" they will get a better education, then how do YOU have the keys to the educational kingdom that trained teachers do not?

Ever think that if children never see the poor and downtrodden, they can never have real empathy for them?

It would be interesting to hear your excuses....oh, I mean reasons.

`

TLC, how many "poor and downtrodden" could one expect to encounter at Harvard or Princeton?

I have problems with homeschooling. I admit that. I find the premises offered in support of same to be weak and unfounded.

And the claim of organizing groups of home schooled children for "outings" is just plain silly to me.

While I am not an advocate of the standardized testing (EOC/EOG), I believe that there can be benefits from placement testing.

I believe this LTTE is just trying to tout invalid claims of benefits of homeschooling versus traditional educational settings.

Shalom

~

I am 100% against homeschooling, unless it is a mentally or physically handicapped situation.

Most homeschoolers are doing it to keep their children from going to school with the "undesireables". They mask it in religion, or pseudo educational doublespeak, but it is bigotry and racism for the most part.

~

TLC,

What an ignorant attitude you have!!! People chose to home school for all kinds of reasons. My children attend private school, not because I don't want them to associate with the "undesirables" as you so untactfully put it, but beacsue I want my children to be educated! In GCS, as most other public schools, the children are trained to take tests! period. Go ask any public school teacher. the emphasis is in EOG's and NCLB testing, not on education. The discipline problems further exacerbate teachers ability to educate! I want my children to get ahead in the world. Don't you dare question a parent's right to seek the best for their children. Having had my children attend public schools for too many years, I made the decision to seek better for them! I wish that every parent were fortunate enough to choose better for their children in terms of their education. It has nothing whatsoever to do with racism, bigotry, or any of the other excuses you make for alternative education .It is clear that you know very little about what goes on in public schools today. go talk to teachers before you spout off in critisism of someone else!

Mikeg -

You are absolutely correct. TLC is ignorant - on this and many other subjects - but that doesn't keep him from "feeling" that he is right!

My children were both home-schooled because the public schools were not teaching them the skills they would need to succeed in life. The final straw came when I asked a teacher about papers coming home with "great work!" written on them when they were filled with spelling errors. I was told that spelling didn't count! My wife & I chose home schooling because the public school system was not getting the job done, and we could not afford a private school. Both of my kids have now graduated high school. One is working in the health care field as a registered pharmacy technician while studying to be a pharacist. The other is pursuing 2 degrees in information technology. Both are well-adjusted, outgoing and doing well.

TLC just can't see that his attitude is the one that is bigoted.

"Most homeschoolers are doing it to keep their children from going to school with the "undesireables"." I sure would like to see the research to support that BIGOTED statement.

I will say that many of the home-schoolers we have been associated with did have a concern about making sure their children received religious training that was compatible with their family's beliefs. Many of them would have been happy to have schools that are neutral on religion, but saw the schools as not only not neutral, but hostile to Christianity. Yes, some were religious nuts, but certainly not "most." Personally, religion was a factor far down the list for my wife and me.

TLC is like many who see themselves as liberal - tolerance is great, as long as you believe as they do. If you have a different viewpoint, you are wrong, bigoted, and a threat! As proof of his superiority, he quotes the words of a song made popular by a novelty singer! LOL!!

No argument, Nic, except as a Private Eye, you will readily concede "... like many who see themselves as liberal ... as long as you believe as they do .. " etc. also applys to many who see themselves as ... [fill in the blank].

~

Blah, Blah, Blah....and it doesn't surprise me that Nic Danger "home schools" his children! Mikeg, You have sufficiently convinced yourself, and it is a free country.

Putting "home schools" in parentheses speaks volumes about TLC's elitism.

I've often wondered if TLC is somehow affiliated with the academic world - especially since the former ID was Demon Deacon. A professor, or possibly groundskeeper at Groves Stadium? Certainly not an observant sort, he. In my post, I said BOTH of my children have been graduated - so the fact that he is not surprised that I home school my children shows a lack of understanding of present vs. past tense.

The note that it is a free country is correct, TLC. You are free to be ignorant AND snobbish!

TLC,

I hate to disappoint you but you have made a few false assumptions about our family and homeschooling. Actually we are liberal Jews who like to live and think outside the box. We are quite a challenge to people like yourself.

We spend a great deal of time with people who are different from ourselves, black people, pagans, atheists, older people, Muslims, "poor and downtrodden" and even white Christians.

We homeschool for several reasons. For example my children like to experience the diversity of life so they choose not to spend the day in a classroom with 20 or 30 other kids who are 11 years old. They can spend all day reading if they like and do math whenever they want. We don't have to let anyone know if we go out of town for a week or two in October. We can deliver meals regularly for Mobile Meals and volunteer at the library.

It is a full and varied life. And different from your limited imagination.

prmanning

`

Patsy,
I'm glad you can insulate your children from the "real world" during their formative years. They will certainly understand how to get along with others during their visits to the library, Natural Science Center etc. with you. You might want to point out some of the children who are less fortunate--because they may someday have to work among them, or heaven forbid "BE" one of them. Tell them that those people sitting in the library reading the jobs section of the paper are just "bums" and that if they are "lazy" they'll end up like that too. Wouldn't want them to grow up without feeling some superiority for their "homeschool education".
Be sure and explain all the "theories" on getting along, as that might come in handy for them as adults. Tell them how fortunate they are to not have to sit beside a student who may not have good hygiene and actually smell pretty ripe. I'm sure your descriptions will help them to understand about "God's other children". And during your "break time" for them, be sure they get to play with ONLY the other homeschool children, so that God forbid they don't have to see how Democracy really works. Oh, I'm sure you're already doing this, but be sure and tell them all the reasons you are keeping them away from other children--you've convinced yourself, so you need to convince them too! It's called "brainwashing" by some, but you know, of course, that it is just good old fashion parenting.
:)

`

~

One more thing Patsy. I noticed this line and it seems that this is really all about "YOU" and not about your children:

"We don't have to let anyone know if we go out of town for a week or two in October."

The real question is, do you want them to be good children, or good adults? Homeschool MAY offer some positives for some CHILDREN, but it does little to prepare children for that tough, long term game, called life.

All the talking from you about the underprivileged, the poor, and those on the margins will NEVER replace seeing, and being beside it! And, as an added benefit, I'll bet if your children were in public schools, you would be not only involved, but VERY involved! With that said, you are depriving your children of life lessons, and our schools of a great supporter. Society owes a debt to our children, and our children in return owe a debt to society. I hope your faith will lead you to that end.

`

Those posts reinforce my belief that TLC is somehow connected to public education - he trots out the usual NEA line about how home schooled kids lack "socialization." It's used every time a home schooled student excels - winning a spelling or geography competition for example. Local news outlets will interview someone connected with the public schools, and they will worry about the kids "lack of involvement with others."

It sounds good, but the arguement won't fly.

We were not "insulated" from anyone. My kids interacted with others through Scouts (two Eagle Scouts out of two - not bad), church, the home school association, YMCA sports, etc. The other kids came from all walks of life, were all different colors, had different backgrounds. Some came from a family with plenty of money, others, like us, struggled to pay the bills. (Maybe WE were the ones being pointed at by snobs like TLC.) The one thing the kids had in common was having a family that cared about them and wanted them to be able to fulfill their potential.

The public schools responsibility is to teach students the basics, and they were not providing that. That is the reason we left. The added benefits of home schooling became apparent to me only AFTER we started it.

Nic,

Don't bother telling TLCanadian about facts. He is RIGHT no matter what. A classic example of a closed mind. LOL!!

~

Nic,
Keep telling yourself what a great job YOU did. You've convinced yourself of it, so why do you care what anyone else thinks??? You have ALL the answers--remember you "Home Schooled" your children--now they too, know all the answers. No doubt you love your children, but what you didn't give them will come out in their work lives and their socialization as adults. Guess you gave yourself "Teacher of the Year" each year too! The arrongance to think you are capable of providing all the components of an education is phenomenal. Congratulations!

`

TLC -

To quote a great American president.....

"There you go again."

You assume way too much. And you know what happens when you assume, except in this case it only makes an ass of you.

Where do I claim to have ALL the answers? Where do I claim my children have ALL the answers? Where do I claim "Teacher of the Year?" (IF I was handing out that award, it would have gone to my wife.)

As I explained, my kids are well adjusted. They had plenty of opportunity for socialization while growing up. The home school experience worked well for my family. Did it provide "all the components of an education?" Of course not - life is a continual education. (That is something you would do well to learn.) Do the public schools provide all the components of an education? Absolutely not. In many cases, public schools fail to provide even a basic eduation.

For you to dismiss home schooling out of hand is the height of the arrogance you accuse me of, and reinforces my belief that you somehow have a personal stake in the public school system.

Nic,

You might as well give it up. As many of us who read this column have discovered, TLCANADIAN has nothing better to do than sit at his computer and blather. HE is NEVER wrong, and the more logical your arguement, the more he relies on HIS opinion to refute you. He has more time on his hands than most people, and spends it making cowardly posts. (I see him in a dark room, eating Hostess Twinkies by the truckload, and giggling a LOT! LOL!!!)

Your children sound like they turned out great to me. Two Eagle Scouts in one family proves to anyone that you and your wife did a good job with them, no matter how you got there. (Well, maybe not to a closed-minded dolt.)

`

Nic Danger, Home School advocate, says, "....and reinforces my belief that you somehow have a personal stake in the public school system."

You are 100% correct, as I believe WE ALL have a personal stake in the public school system!

It is the institution that has made our great melting pot work! It is the system that has rich and poor seated side by side. It is the bulwark of our democracy and it is the "great homogenizer" of America!

YES, I HAVE A PERSONAL STAKE IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM AND SO DO YOU. Difference is, I took my stake seriously and you abandoned yours with all deliberate speed. Rather than raise the bar, increase involvement, and show your children how life operates at the core, you chose to separate your children as if "wheat from the chaff".

As to any official, professional, or business relationship to the public schools, I have none. I am, however, a very responsible, tax paying, law abiding citizen who wants to see society as a whole, afforded every opportunity to experience the American Dream!

You and those like minded, would just as soon turn our public schools into sewers running rife with turmoil, and underperformance creating a permanent "underclass". You ignore the many Morehead Scholars, Reynolds Scholars, Hankins Scholars, and recipients of other prestigious awards--who come from the public schools! The Guilford County Public Schools! In fact, if you've ever watched the Guilford County HI-IQ Bowl, you'll notice that Greensboro Day even falls below our public schools in top performance!

What I hear consistently from the Home School folks is "public schools are terrible" or "Public schools are devoid of morals and I want MY children to learn about God". I say, teach them all you want to about God and send them forth as disciples, but don't confuse knowing God with racism, or religious bigotry.

As far as schools being "bad" in the eyes of the homeschoolers--they HAVE to believe that for it to work for them. And you know, it's okay for you to believe that now, because otherwise your hard work will have been in vain.

But as another great Republican once said, "In your heart, you know I'm right"!

`

The public zoos ARE a sewer and the last hope for liberalism. Where else can they indoctrinate a captive audience with their 'values'?

I have a friend who is homeschooling his 3 children. They are outgoing, respectful, AND they outscore their public zoo counterparts on tests by leaps and bounds.

Those who hail the public education system as a great success has got to be either feeding from the public trough or has a vested interest in keeping America's youth dumbed down and dependant on them.

TLC,

Your ramblings reminded me of a song ...

Cause Oscar Meyer has a way with b-o-l-o-g-n-a.

Wetemwook

`

neo,
First of all, it's hard to believe you have ANY friends, and second, it's hard to believe you know "personally" anyone other than a child who is exceptionally smart.

`

Au contraire, THE LIBERAL CANADIAN, I have many friends. My friends are trustworthy, loyal, and above all...they do not wrap themselves and their families in the Canadian flag when they travel abroad.

When I found out this guy, a co-worker, btw, was homeschooling his children, I asked him why he was doing this. His reply?...He wanted his children to learn more than he did in the public school systems because they were so woefully lacking in teaching the basics.

His kids are respectful, outgoing, and very well mannered. Oh, and they don't wear their pants 4 sizes too big as to show the world the crack of their ass. They are also taught self esteem and self reliance...two things that have become extinct in the public zoo system.

And for the record, my co-worker earns substantially less than I do, but they have made a commitment to their kids that requires some personal sacrifice. That does not translate well into liberalspeak does it, TL CANADIAN?

I have had my children in both the "Private" and the "public" schools. I would chose public hands down!

I have two co-workers who are home schooling their children. Neither of their wives went to college....and are calling daily to complain to their husbands about how to discipline and correct their out of hand children!

I graduated from a distinguished University System with a B.S. from a scientific department ranked in the top ten of it's discipline...and can attest to one thing....

The more one learns, the less one knows, (especially me) and therefore I should not be the sole source for my childrens education! (But what do I know!)

~

geohokie,

You hit on the fact that homeschoolers cannot refute. They are far from being "objective" in their judgement of "progress" being made by their own children.

It is a nice little fantasy for those who wish to shield their children from the real world, but it is fantasy. They make themselves feel good, but they undereducate their own children in the process.

I can't imagine telling a college admissions counselor, "Little Tommy is a great student, in fact the best student in our school!" To have the counselor ask, "So what exactly is your relationship to the child, and how can you be objective?"

It is a nice little charade for the mostly white, ultra conservative, right wing religious families who promote this as a way to avoid "secular society". Their children are no threat to become the next Bill Gates, Steve Jobs et al.

They are destined to be bewildered at the various races, creeds and colors of society as well as the cornucopia of socio economic classes which co-exist due to understanding from all parties. The movement will be compared, in the future, to the muslim schools that do not allow women to participate, or become integrated into society. Why? Because of the misfits they have bred by isolation, and ignorance--poor quality delivery system, and lack of resources are also at the root. Homeschooling is NOT about benefitting the child, but rather advancing the agenda of the parents.

~

~

I think both sides are missing the point on this one, and no one hear can manage to recognize that many options (public, private and homeschooling) can meet the needs of all of our children.
Those who say they are against homeschooling most likely have never met well-adjusted children who are. I have, and while it may not be what I chose for my child, it is appropriate for some children. That being said, too many advocates of homeschooling are attacking the public school system, rather than just acknowledging that it was not right for their child. Not to mention the "basics" are being taught, and in a significantly more rigorous fashion than when any of us were in school. I am a teacher in the public school system and every day I am astounded by the amount of information we ask our kids to know. Kindergarteners will be required to read on a level that I had to read on midway through the first grade, performing math I did in second grade, and writing paragraphs. I wish there was less standarnized testing, but I promise you the children are not sitting at desks getting EOG quizzes everyday. The tests cover material that students are expected to learn in that grade. We spend to much time on it, but we have to know how are children are performing.
In my opinion, a child should glean his or her education from many sources. I can teach children from 8-3 everyday, but they still need to learn certain things at home. Parents who assume that they should play no role in their child's education are severely handicapping them. Make sure your child reads each night, does homework and spend time teaching them the morals you want to instill in them. Kids who get support and discipline at home are easy to pick out in most classrooms.
If you are homeschooling start a co-op with other homeschooling parents and take turns teaching different subjects or do something that differentiates your childs learning on occasion. I am not worried about homeschooled kids lacking social skills, there are too many extracurricular activities that address that. Learning that different approaches to education exist, along with different opinions will help children in college or the work force.
Bottom line, do what is right for your children, and do it without insulting another's choice.

I think both sides are missing the point on this one, and no one hear can manage to recognize that many options (public, private and homeschooling) can meet the needs of all of our children.
Those who say they are against homeschooling most likely have never met well-adjusted children who are. I have, and while it may not be what I chose for my child, it is appropriate for some children. That being said, too many advocates of homeschooling are attacking the public school system, rather than just acknowledging that it was not right for their child. Not to mention the "basics" are being taught, and in a significantly more rigorous fashion than when any of us were in school. I am a teacher in the public school system and every day I am astounded by the amount of information we ask our kids to know. Kindergarteners will be required to read on a level that I had to read on midway through the first grade, performing math I did in second grade, and writing paragraphs. I wish there was less standarnized testing, but I promise you the children are not sitting at desks getting EOG quizzes everyday. The tests cover material that students are expected to learn in that grade. We spend to much time on it, but we have to know how are children are performing.
In my opinion, a child should glean his or her education from many sources. I can teach children from 8-3 everyday, but they still need to learn certain things at home. Parents who assume that they should play no role in their child's education are severely handicapping them. Make sure your child reads each night, does homework and spend time teaching them the morals you want to instill in them. Kids who get support and discipline at home are easy to pick out in most classrooms.
If you are homeschooling start a co-op with other homeschooling parents and take turns teaching different subjects or do something that differentiates your childs learning on occasion. I am not worried about homeschooled kids lacking social skills, there are too many extracurricular activities that address that. Learning that different approaches to education exist, along with different opinions will help children in college or the work force.
Bottom line, do what is right for your children, and do it without insulting another's choice.

~

K,
While I salute your "diplomatic" dance through the minefield, I think you give homeschoolers too much credit.

Responsibility = Involvement

Where are these parents supporting public education? They have chosen to abdicate their responsibility as a defense mechanism to what they perceive as a bad situation. They throw rocks rather than build bridges. They tear down the fabric of public education while claiming that their way is "THE WAY".

I have yet to see a homeschool teacher who is objective or open minded in thought word and deed. For the most part, they are a group of zealots who see themselves in a much higher light than does society.

BTW:
Public school teachers are my heroes! They are the backbone of this country. Who among us, has not been touched by a teacher?

Note for Catholics: I use "touch" figuratively, and NOT literally.

~