News-Record.com

Sir, can you tell us how many trips you have made to trips you have made there to establish your facts?

I think the facts are pretty solid, Doggie; it's the conclusions that are open to discussion.

I'll say it again: "the surge" was only meant to be propaganda that gullible saps who keep wanting to believe that George W. Bush is a good President would lap up and spout back.

Buzzwords do not make for successful military strategy.

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CK,
Your post is excellent. No truer words have been uttered here.

Dog,
Trips to Iraq have nothing to do with this. Yours is but another simple soundbite that offers no meaningful dialogue.

Facts are facts.

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CD:

The column relies mostly on the President's own words from his January speech announcing the surge and his latest speech extending it; these are available on www.whitehouse.gov (see specifically http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/01/20070110-7.html and http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/09/20070913-2.html ). The conclusions of the Jones report are also widely known. Which of these are you disputing?

$1 say's The Doggie has no answers, Dave.

The Democratic party has missed a HUGE opportunity.

They were elected in 'o6 based on "change" .. and they got it - "the surge" and the changeout of Rummy to name only a few - then they let George W. Bush grab all the "credit".

The "surge" doesn't change the fact that we have no mission over there. "Results" are defined as a statistical improvement over where we were pre-surge. It went from hellish to awful and we're suppose to clap.

Americas dumbest war just got supersized.

Rufus, I like that last line!

Dave Ribar, EXCELLENT "Counterpoint." It seems that few have posted by 11:30 AM to discount or refute the facts presented. That says much about what stating facts can do. Thanks for taking the time to write this piece.

Shalom

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Rufus! You must be a "defeatocrat"! You are nothing but a "liberal"! "Uncle Ted" and the "Wide eyed queen" must be your heroes!

Thought I'd get that out of the way so that the little PUSSY kat won't have to weigh in with his crap.

The surge is looking good because we bought off al Sadr for six months. Now who wants to wager what happens when al Sadr decides he's been quiet long enough?

Rufus, you and James have spoken my mind, as Darryl might say.

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Darryl:

The lack of response may owe as much to this issue being rehashed so often--more a sign of people's exhaustion than anything else.

Thanks, though.

True, Dave.

Good letter, though. I think people are exhausted for many of the reasons you set forth in your letter.

One major issue I have with your conclusion. If we agree with Gen. James Jones that "the Iraqi army is 12 to 18 months away from functioning independently and that the country's national police force should be disbanded and reformed", who is going to provide security for Iraq while that happens?

"Rufus! You must be a "defeatocrat"! You are nothing but a "liberal"! "Uncle Ted" and the "Wide eyed queen" must be your heroes!"

Better I guess to have a "Wide Eyed queen" as a hero than a "Wide Stanced Queen".
();-}

Nit:

The key there seems to be functioning "independently." It would be irresponsible to withdraw all of our troops immediately; a complete withdrawal won't be in the cards for some time. Logistics also have to be considered. Just reversing the surge (bringing our troop levels back to their January levels) would take several months.

We should be looking at narrowing the mission to securing the borders, fighting Al Qaeda in Iraq, training Iraqi troops, and supporting the Iraqis. That is, we should adopt the recommendations of the Iraq Study Group. We should also make these decisions from the vantage point of eventually leaving rather than permanently staying.

The British have already done something similar in their sector of the country, collecting their forces in large bases and drawing down their troops. Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen any criticism of their moves by the administration.

P.S. Roughly two weeks have passed since the counterpoint was submitted to the News-Record. One good piece of news is that violence appears to have gone down, though it still remains higher than it was in early 2006. However, one piece of bad news is that the Iraqis have still not enacted any significant legislation that would further reconciliation. So the surge does appear to be providing the breathing space that was intended, but that breathing space, which comes at an incredible price, is being squandered.

This may be somewhat off-topic, but does anyone else notice a strange similarity to George Orwell's 1984 character Goldstien? I'm not saying bin Laden was never a real person, but doesn't it seem all too convenient that whenever the GOP needs a distraction, Osama always comes back into the limelight?

Doesn't the Osama tape that was released a few weeks ago appear to be one example of those all-too convenient coincidences?

Perhaps it's just my imagination running away with me? Any thoughts?

Bishop:

Wasn't Goldstein an internal threat? There are lots of Orwellian dimensions to the Bush administration's behavior, but so far they have avoided describing an internal, fifth-column movement dedicated to the actual overthrow of the U.S. government.

"One good piece of news is that violence appears to have gone down .. "

of course we do not know why - could be the purging of Sunni from Shiite areas (and vice versa) has already been completed. could be the Sadr Army is in stand-down mode (as commanded) - possible to regroup. could be the Sunni are regrouping too, collecting weapons from the US Army. could be true peace is at hand and Synagogues are being built

Another piece of bad news was Iraqis legislators telling the USA to stop helping the Sunni (or is it al Qaida - it is all so muddy there.

Dave,

Thanks for the reasoned response. I really appreciate your letter and follow-up.

Bishop,

I'm not sure if there is really a need to create terrorist. They are real enough. Though I agree the tape did not have much of an impact. Our senses in this country deaden pretty fast to repeats.

Totally off-track:

I had a very realistic dream last night that I was interviewing Bin Laden. He stated that there would be 6 9/11 type attacks on the US in coming months followed by a HUGE one. Hope that's one dream that doesn't come true.

hey.. CHENEY PROMISED if we elected Georgie there would be more Terrorist attacks. If there are any - The fine art of seppuku is the ONLY honorable response.

http://www.win.net/ratsnest/archive-articles21/fog0000000384.html

... but Cheney is such a badass he'll surely do jumonji giri.

Nit:

You are absolutely right, Al Qaeda is a serious and real threat; there is no need to create other threats. Also, Al Qaeda is more than just Osama Bin Laden. Were we to get lucky and either arrest or kill him, there are others would take his place. Reason and sacrifice WILL defeat Al Qaeda; hubris and political posturing won't.

JDR:

Maybe this is wishful thinking but perhaps Al Sadr's call for his militia to stand down is working and (really wishful) genuine. My guess, however, is that he is merely waiting us out.

Dave,

On Al Sadr, my thinking is he is consolidating power. I think his militia was splintering & he called his truce to get control of his internal situation. I don't think the truce was anything more than a temporary tactic.

You guys seem to have missed the mark with regard to my comment on Osama. I never stated that I believe Osama was a made-up character.

"I'm not saying bin Laden was never a real person..."

The point of the question was to find out if you believe that Osama is being used as a symbol... much the same way Goldstein was in 1984. The belief of whether terrorists are real or not had nothing to do with it.

Bishop - I do not think so - based on the administration's suppression of OBL's October 'o4 Video. Ever read the transcript? Fascinating - and not a single "encrypted message to terrorist cells" ever found.

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Rufus,
Looks like "Wide Stance" Craig is going to stay in the Senate!

The joke is getting better and better.

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