News-Record.com

" 'Wall of Separation' isn't in the Constitution"

Sure it is...right there between the declaration promoting gay marriage and the right to someone else's money to pay for your kids' doctor visits...

(I've become a real constitutional expert after reading all the liberals' interpretation of this document)
:]

"the phrase ... just isn't there."

OK Mr, Waldruff. From now on, all discussions about the Constitution shall included ONLY phrases that are directly quoted from here:

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.txt

We'll include the 27 Amendments too.

Harold,

You're right, there is no real "separation clause" in the Constitution. But I bet you'd change your tune pretty quickly if a teacher of a public grade school decided to hang up posters of Buddha and start instructing the teachings of that religion to his/her kids. Or maybe the Wiccan religion?

Without the Separation Clause, there's nothing to stop this kind of preferential treatment in government settings for one religion over another. Don't think it's outside the realm of possibility either. It's happened before.

http://atheism.about.com/b/a/259123.htm

So the lesson here is, be careful what you wish for because you may get it.

Mr. Maheaux is joking right. Or rather simply showing the never ending ignorance of of the many liberals that, unfortunately, litter our landscape. Mr. Maheaux THE FIRST AMMENDMENT PROHIBITS ESTABLISHMENT OF A RELIGION BY THE GOVERNMENT. iT'S CALLED THE ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE. Good Lord man, look at your sixth grade civics book. Oh, they don't have time to teach civics that anymore because of all the time spent on teaching about tolernace, diversity, trying to convince us that illegals should have driver licenses'.

Yes, Tonymo. Note the use of "quotes" around the words "separation clause" in the first sentence. The second use of it was a boo boo. Now, calm down and respond to my point instead of taking the thread off topic.

How about the point of a teacher of a teacher putting up a picture of Buddah. Let's see, Christians make up 80+ percent of the folks here, Buddists, "slightly " less. Putting up pictures and teaching religion are two completely different animals. You need to take a trip to D.C. to read the inscriptions on the monuments of some of our founders, and some of the inscriptions strewn throughout the Supreme Court building, then somehow try to reconcile what that same court is trying to do to our society. If anyone thinks we are a better society today I'm sorry for that person. I went to school without metal detectors, armed guard roaming the corridors, no teachers were assaulted, almost everyone graduated, and could read their diploma, and no one freaked out if the valedictorian happened to thank God. Our society, like all others that have disappeared, will fall from within. Oh, I haven't set foot in any church for 30 years, but I don't denigrate, or mock those who have.

Well, it appears 2008 will continue to have the far right wingers yacking like always. Witness Tonymo taking the topic off course with his usual
Liberals = BAD, and Conservatives = GOOD.

What a joke!

"Putting up pictures and teaching religion are two completely different animals."

Yes they are, but for some reason, certain factions of the Christian right seem to think they are one and the same. Did you go look at the link I posted? If not, I suggest you check it out as well as this one:

http://pleadthefirst.com/2006/12/11/pagan-flyer/

The lesson here is that people seem to tolerate religion in public venues like schools only when it's THEIR religion being pushed. When it is not, suddenly it's not okay. Either you are for supporting ALL religions in government funded places or NONE. There can be no middle ground for any reasoned view of the subject. Government cannot endorse one religion over the other.

And for the record, there has been more bloodshed, hatred and violence done in the name of "God" around the world and yes, even in this country, than for any other reason. I disagree with the assessment that the current moral state of our country is in any way related to less people going to church.

TLC writes: "Well, it appears 2008 will continue to have the far right wingers yacking like always."

I'm quite sure there will be an equal number of far left wingers doing the same. In fact, with TLC's post, he's already proven this true!

Amen bunny, I look forward to another year of Demon Deacon posts, especially in an election year. They are so totally "fair and balanced" ;-)

Just got wifi added to the house. This is cool, I can sit in the living room and watch football and read the blog.

Happy New Year to all.

JDR thanks for the reasoning in your post!

Ged Maheaux, the reasoning and rationale in that first posting would have seemed to quite the masses. I guess I was hoping too much in that regard.

I just wish that those who have quieted dreams of a "Christian" nation (theocracy) would live in some of the other nations of the world that are theocratic. I believe they would "sing a different song" after doing that!

Shalom

Oxymoron said: "Witness Tonymo taking the topic off course ".
If anyone should be able to spot taking a topic off course, it should be you.
However, I don't think you can spot it, or at least not so as I can see.

I can agree with JDR, let's use the real wording in the consitution, not what we've heard it said.
Which is what Mr Waldruff said in his letter.

... actually Ghost, I was being sarcastic .. be cause no one talks like that any more, and besides if we did, only male property-owners could vote.

"James Madison offered the most thorough exposition of the proceedings [however] Madison also disclaimed the value of his notes and contended that we should look for original intent not in the deliberations and proceedings of the convention to draft the Constitution, but in the text itself and in the proceedings of the state ratifying conventions."

If you have nothing to do for the next 6 years:
http://shop.wisconsinhistory.org/productcart/pc/viewCat_P.asp?idCategory=32

While I'm sure we have all benefited from the right to worship in the manner of our choosing, as well as not to worship at all, I think both sides are missing the most important point. The "non-establishment" clause was included in the first amendment not to protect the people, but was, instead, the offspring of the Federalist ideal which, by its very nature, assumed that the individual states, alone, had the power to establish whatever religion they deemed suitable, and was set forth to preserve the right of the states to establish religions, as well as to protect the already established religions of some of the various States from the usurpation of an over arching national religion.
(For example, Massachusetts and Connecticut both collected taxes to fund the Congregationalist Church well into the 19th century and the governments of Maryland and Georgia allowed for taxation to fund religion although those legislative provisions were never acted upon.)
One might argue that the current docterine of the separation of Church and State is desirable for the fostering of personal freedom, but it is antithetical to the federalist nature of the Constitution.

If your're going to say that there is no separation of church and state, then you had better throw the Bible out of the courtrooms since it is used to swear lies and deceit upon in God's name and then allow all rights of the constitution to be obstructed. I've seen that the human right of truth under oath means nothing when it allows human suffering within the Guilford County Court system and its abuse by lawyers and judges at the direction of Kitty Hatfield. Warrants based in lies and deceit under oath before magistrates are used to prejudice and bias the truth in the news in order to cover up the crimes by the Greensboro Police Department's good ole boy system as it still exists in the courts and the dirty dozen lawyers of the good ole boy system who violate every constitutional right humans are entitled to. Humans are punished and denied the right to justice by using the Bible since none of them open it and read it. There is no separation of church and state in the courts of Guilford County. The constitution means nothing but maybe when I go into the deep pocketbooks of those members of the good ole boy network and the dirty dozen, there will be a change for what this country was founded upon.
Patrick Henry stated: "Power is the great evil with which we are contending. We have divided power between three branches of government and erected checks and balances to prevent abuse of power. However where is the check on the power of the judiciary? If we fail to check the power of the judiciary, I predict that we will eventually live under judicial tyranny. "...it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather and irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds...Samuel Adams "The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who do nothing about it." A.E. That's what's wrong with the court system in Guilford County. What could have been done years ago to stop the abuse of constitutional freedoms in many cases and one attorney corrupting the system, has been allowed to go on and on with every single judge who has the authority to stop such violations that the constitution grants us as Americans. The judges are afraid of being black balled by attorney Hatfield, so they allow her to violate every constitutional and civil right a person has as she plays both sides of the field in her cases and cares less about how she gets her attorney fees, since her services come by fraud, extortion, blackmail, deceit, and incompetent application of the law.