News-Record.com

"Are we becoming the "beast" we want to exorcise in others?"

Absolutely! Just read the responses to the L'sTTE you mentioned.

Amen, Yvonne. Amen.

Regarding the (Christian) New Testament, one would have to go on the premise that the US is a Christian nation. I was brought up on the adage that actions speak louder than words. So, I guess the US being a Christian nation is no longer valid either! Then again, was it ever?

Shalom

" Are we becoming the "beast" we want to exorcise in others?"

Sadly America has been that beast since its inception beginning with America's claim to manifest destiny. Hence:
The extermination of American Indians

1812 The invasion of Canada

1820 -1850 Invasions of Mexico, Korea (the first time) Japan (the first time) China and the entire South Pacific (the first time)

1861 The invasion of the Confederate States of America

1898-1913 The invasion of Cuba, Panama, most of Central America and almost every island in-between North and South America as well as the Philippines (the world's largest Islamic country then and now) and Guam. Cuba became a slave nation and a paradise for rich Americans until Castro came along in 1958 but most of those countries remain under US control.

1918 the US invasion of Russia which weakened Russia so much that Lenin took over and established the USSR in 1922.

1948 The second invason of Korea

1958 Vietnam....

And yet the only country in the world that doesn't remember these and more is the United States of America.

"What is happening to this nation's ideals?"

America's only ideal has always been corporate profits no matter who pays for it and the sooner Americans learn the truth....... Well, I doubt short of our own destruction the world hasany hope left.

I need a good set of hip boots in here. Wackoism on parade:

"Well, I doubt short of our own destruction the world hasany hope left."

Hey Billy , THE LIBERAL MORON, and Yvonne:
You useful idiots make good fodder for the Islamic fascists' propaganda machine. You know, the Islamic fascists that are currently getting the $#!+ kicked out of them in Iraq.

LIBERAL MORON, I knew you were a coward who hates America by your sewing of the Canadian emblem on your backpack, but I never knew that yellow streak had grown to envelope the others here who are supporting the terrorists by their idiotic mewling about how "our own destruction is the world's only hope".

You people make me sick to my stomach. This tripe is straight out of OBL's "Handbook for Useful Idiots".

Billy, weren't you the one running for mayor on a 'write in'?
And to think I almost voted for you.
I will NEVER make that mistake again.
What would you have done if a bomb went off in Greensboro, put up the white flag and break out your book on 'how to speak Arabic', or throw down a towel, kneel down and start crying "praise be to Allah"? Or would you simply say "Finally, our own destruction is at hand and the world is saved"?

I remember why I quit posting here now. It's too nauseating to see the cowards unashamedly display their contempt for America and suck up to the islamofascists.

Are you surprised yard dog? There is the nouveau blame America first crowd that came about in 2001. 9/11 was America's fault. Ron Paul would support you on that.

Then there is the lifelong blame America first crowd, as witnessed by the formal mayoral candidate, who will go back a few centuries. Hell why stop there Billy, why not go back to 1492 and give those evil Europeans a piece of your mind?

"1918 the US invasion of Russia which weakened Russia so much that Lenin took over and established the USSR in 1922"

http://www.historywiz.com/invasionrussia.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Expeditionary_Force_Siberia

Got it, the presence of a few thousand US troops in Siberia is the reason Lenin was able to succeed in establishing the USSR.

Hey Billy, where is WWII? After all we bombed the hell out of the Germans and nuked the Japanese.

Billy, if you haven't been there I suggest a visit to Arlington National Cemetary, watching the changing of the guard at the Tomb of the Unknowns is a unique and moving experience. Better yet take a longer trip and visit the cemetary in Normandy.

Dan,
Not really surprised, but totally disgusted and nauseated to the point of vomiting. I know we have the first ammendment, but what comes out of the mouths of the vermon who says America's demise is the last hope of the world, is more disgusting than what I have to pick up off the didewalk when I walk my dog.

Where would we be today had the colonies been populated with the likes of this 'blogging poet', the spineless LIBERAL MORON, and of course Darryl, who carries fake coffins at military funerals? I'll give Yvonne a pass on this one because she says anything that she believes will degrade Bush, no matter the subject. The others are simply spineless cowards that are too ignorant or stupid to realize what useful idiots they truly are.

Dan, I've seen Normandy and Arlington. This is hallowed ground and the likes of this 'blogging poet' and his spineless cohorts are unfit to breathe the air that surround these monuments to the true heroes of America. Don't suggest they go there, it will only serve to foul the air with their putrid presence.
This 'blogging poet' and his cowardly friends here would no doubt be lined up to throw spitballs and jeers at those who were fortunate enough to make it through 'Operation Overlord' and return home, had they been around during that time.
They are unfit to wipe the arse of of our military men and women.
To run for mayor of an American city, then declare "Well, I doubt short of our own destruction the world hasany hope left" is beyond cowardice. These are the words of a sniveling little worm who sits on his behind in a warm house degrading his country and supporting America's enemies via the Internet, before making major decisions like what to have for dinner.
And you know what's really sad? They're probably too damned stupid to realize what they're doing.

There. I've done it. I have done what I vowed not to do: Get sucked down in the swamp with the likes of these worms who hate America. (But no doubt support the troops of course!) But when I saw three comments in a row from the allies of the Islamic fascists with no rebuttal, I had to respond.

YD, I merely suggested visiting these cemeteries to gain a sense of perspective. Both are hallowed grounds. I've seen them both as well and suggest others visit them to learn something, hopefully.

For a short period back in 1984, I lived near the Alsace region, the Doubs department to be specific. I'll never forget this. We had dinner with an elderly woman, Malou was her name. She took me to her bedroom and showed me an armoire. When the Nazis invaded her home, they searched for men in the house. They penetrated their bayonets into the armoire and killed her husband hidden inside, but spared her and her children. I saw the penetration marks. That was as much as a moving experience as visiting Arlington or Normandy, talking with someone who lived during the period.

Naturally she still hated Germans and was grateful to Americans for liberating France. She thanked me numerous times and I explained repeatedly that I had nothing to do with that history. It didn't matter to her, being an American was good enough.

The younger people, and I was one of them at the time, didn't realize the impact of that war. And that's a good thing. In addition to myself we had a German girl, Marion, living at this house and WWII was a very distant memory.

I was 21 at the time, it was one of those life changing experiences. I learned in France, not in America, what noble sacrifices our military men and women have made over centuries. Yet to Billy and likeminded people our military are nothing but barbarians. Pathetic.

Please visit often.

I like to say a big amen to Dan, and yard dog, I so sick of these pathetic liberals that have the answer to every thing in the world that goes in the world, and hide the CORRUPATION going on in Raleigh in including the writers of this paper.

"And, last but not least, what happened to the teachings of the New Testament? We seem to be regressing to the Old Testament's notion of "an eye for an eye.""
Are you suggesting that it is ok with Jesus to sit idly by and let souless thugs rape and murder our families?

Dan, I can understand the French lady's reaction to you. I had the opportunity to visit East Berlin back in the early 70s while the cold war was in full swing. Although I was young at the time it made a huge impression on me. My German was very limited and broken, but I was able to grasp the basic ideas of those who lived there and what they seemed to want me to understand when I spoke to them. I found it odd that the older folks seemed to resent the Americans. Many, once they found out that you were American, would make hand gestures like airplanes flying over while dropping bombs and then wave you off as if disgusted. But there were many, many younger people who welcomed you and I got the sense that they viewed America, Britain, and France as their best hope to effect change in their lives and rid their country of the plague called communism. Another odd thing was to walk down a street that was lined with buildings, but no pedestrian traffic, whatsoever. Upon closer inspection, you would find that while the facade of the building looked perfectly normal, the insides were still gutted and filled with rubble from the allied bombings.
To go through the Brandenburg Gate from West Berlin to East Berlin, where Reagan made his famous challenge to the communists, was like stepping back in time 30 years.

It would be interesting to see what kind of reception this 'blogging poet' and the LIBERAL MORON would receive from the lady you speak of, not to mention the untold number of people around the world who owe their freedom to the Allies.

"Please visit often."

Thanks Dan. I view you as one of the few sane voices in here. I'll check back from time to time, but I don't intend to make it a habit of crawling through sewage like "Well, I doubt short of our own destruction the world has any hope left".

Every time I read that statement, I feel the need for a shower.

I'm guessing this thread is dead, but regardless, I object to "America's only ideal has always been corporate profits no matter who pays for it ..."

What most apparently do not realize is that is a relatively recent phenom'.

"We must be prepared to defend ourselves." This sentence is wrong because...??? Perhaps you expect a police officer to be right there if you are ever robbed or threatened with death. Maybe you think that if anyone should ever threaten to take you away from your family by killing you, or threaten to kill your family, that the best response is getting down on your knees and begging for mercy. Either way, you are a vulnerable sheep among wolves, dependent on a shepherd to protect you and yours. Recognize and accept the fact that there are wolves among us, and prepare and respond accordingly...or be a victim.

Waterboarding does not result in pain or injury, only fear. If you really think that a technique that can gain such valuable information to prevent terrorist attacks without actually harming someone is "torture", than you again are a sheep that actually spites the shepherd that protects you.

If you consider a needle prick - the type of "pain" that thousands of children, women, and elderly put up with every day during typical doctor's appointments - to be cruel and unusual, than you are a wimpy sheep that has probably never faced any real adversity in your whole life from a wolf dedicated to taking your property or killing you. You cannot recognize the fact that there are some truly bad people out there that will never be humane or productive in our society. Think about the humanity a convicted murderer provided to their victim when you whine and moan about their horrible suffering from a PIN PRICK!

This letter should lead the pack for months as the wimpiest read of the year. Hopefully this thread won't die for weeks. It should be copied and pasted to larger online blogs around the internet as a reminder to all those shepherds, and those who still believe in the simple conservative values that founded this country, that there is a weak and self-destructive line of thought that is still spreading, capable of undoing our principles and leading to the potential demise of this once great nation. The strong built this country, and the weak could very well tear it down.

After reading these responses, I am wondering if the Muslims you all are always talking about, you know the ones who allow no other view other than their own, need to worry about some of you. Most of the views expressed here would make a cesspool a viable option over the vileness and hatred spouted in this thread.

Yvonne, Muslims have nothing to do with my post, and everything I spoke of is within the law. If I have any hatred, it is toward those who choose to terrorize our society with street crime and murder. We need to stand up to those who offer nothing but stolen property or a gun in our face. For those too weak to meet that challenge, whether through lawful defense or conscientious voting, I only offer a frustrated shake of my head. Meeting violence with a hug is a losing battle, and we can see where that has gotten us over the last several decades.

unbiased .. I do not really disagree, but America does need to be a bit smarter, imho. Today's total lack of a "Coalition of the Willing" shows how little international support we have been able to maintain ... and I would suggest the reason is because America's leadership has squandered most opportunites. Overly aggressive methods can be just a stupid as "Meeting violence with a hug"

""More Guilford County residents taking up arms," makes Mr. Hoppe "want to cry".

Thugs breaking into a home and commiting rape/robery/murder has made many cry for the loss of a loved one.

yard dog, you have effectively yanked the tongue out of the useful idiots.
Good show.

Neocon,

You really are to be pitied. You display an amazing ability to surprise even me, which is hard to do, with your warped view of reality.

YD accomplished one thing in his rants, proving how unhinged someone could become when the wrong buttons are pushed. It is unfortunate he chose to keep repeating his hatred and disgust as he came across as someone mentally unstable. We often disagreed, especially on politics. However, I always felt he had the same right as anyone else to state how he feels.

Stating how he feels about those of us who think differently is not the issue in this thread. The venom with which he chose to keep repeating his hatred and the name calling is not only unnecessary to get his pov across, it is totally disrespectful. A man's true character is revealed when he is threatened by those who disagree with him.

This concept may be foreign to you since you delight in antagonizing people simply for the pleasure of it. And the fact that you hide behind anonymity to insult people says a lot about the kind of man you are. Most people I know think this to be cowardly, as do I.

You, YD or anyone else can disagree with me without disturbing my peace. But the hatred, disgust and anger spewed by you and YD (in this thread) are not normal, imho

Also, your stated POV is just like the militant Muslims you are always condemning. There is no room for anyone to express differing P'sOV without fearing for their safety, relatively speaking.

Unbiased,

I have read many definitions of torture and many extensive articles about the use of torture. The consensus is torture does NOT gain useful information. Thus we disagree right off the bat. Also, unless you have personally experienced the technique in question, are you qualified to say whether it is torture or not?

Believe it or not, there really is such a thing as being "scared to death".

I "delight in antagonizing people for pleasure"?

No dear, you are wrong.
How often do you see me goading, taunting, or hurling insults about people's education level or suggesting they are mentally retarded, or asking someone...anyone : "My God man, are you that dense?" when they point out a differing view than mine? How many times have you heard me ask someone if they have recently escaped from Butner and I will refer to them the in the future as "Butner Boy"...or "BB" for short? How many times have you heard me tell someone that "it's not the sand this simpleton has his head buried in, it's in his ass"? I really want to know. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU HEARD ME HURL INSULTS LIKE THIS TO PEOPLE WITH WHOM I DISAGREE??? GIVE ME A NUMBER!!!

For the record, these types of insults doesn't bother me one iota. I only bring it up to show you that you see ONLY what you want to see and you disregard these comments from those that parrot "good post Yvonne", or "Yvonne, you speak my mind"!

I antagonize NO ONE! I DO react.

I don't 'hide' behind anonymity. I do wish to remain anonymous in order to fend off harassing phone calls and e-mails to myself and my family from 'tolerant' liberals who are want to call you up at 5:30am and tell you "I just wanted to know what a real son- of- a- bitch sounded like this early".
You don't have this problem do you, Yvonne? Nor would THE LIBERAL CANADIANETTE, for that matter. Some people have too much class to stoop to heavy breathing and insults over the phone. These are the same people who REACT to insults here, not initiate them.

I can't speak for yard dog, but I certainly can understand his anger with the blogging poet and his cheerleaders who think that the last hope of the world is the destruction of America.

Do you consider this simply a "differing view"?
I really don't expect an answer to that. I suspect you'll either drop off the thread or come back with some crock like "while I don't agree with Billy, I respect his right to...yada yada yada". I'm with YD on this: It makes me ill. Make no mistake: I respect no one who spews this manure over the internet for the enemies of America to pick up and use against us.

This is the very definition of useful idiots. If America is indeed doomed, it will fall from within, due in large part to people like this who view America as the world's problem, not the leader of the free world and the best hope for humanity.

"What is happening to this nation's ideals"?
I'll tell you what has already happened to this nation's ideals: The ideals that this nation was founded upon have been ridiculed to the point by liberals and their henchmen in the aclu that it is unlawful to utter certain words on public property.
This nation's ideals were put on the back burner with FDR's 'new deal' in order to help a particular political party seize and maintain power by stealing from one and enslaving another with dependency.
This nations ideals were dealt nearly a death blow when we, as a society, set back and allowed our returning service men and women to be spat upon and called "baby killers" by counter - culturists and hollywood elites that now have a presidential candidate who is very close to becoming the Commander-In- Chief.

Hate me all you want Yvonne. I really don't care. I come here often because my job requires me to be on the computer nearly every day and often there are long pauses in between communications which leaves me with time to fill. I don't come here to 'antagonize' anyone, but if you call reacting to some of the venom spewed here or calling a coward a coward 'antagonizing', so be it

Yvonne, we can disagree and debate til no end about what torture is. I agree that torture probably does not gain useful info all the time, but since I don't consider waterboarding to be torture, it's a moot point. If you want to limit the people who define waterboarding as torture to those who have experienced it, we will be left with a very short list of considerably biased people...not very logical.

IMO, the definition of torture has been expanded by some from centuries old, Inquisition type practices that miamed people with malicious intent, to include anything that causes mental anguish or distress. If you choose the wider version, then you can throw out the entire volume of police interrogation procedures which are based on state law and case law. We would be left with a dead end every time a suspect tells a detective that he didn't do it, and nobody would ever get convicted unless they were caught in the act. Do you feel that a little mental distress (like when a detective asks tough questions in a tough manner) is ok, but a lot of mental distress (like waterboarding) is not?? That is not logical either.

The line should be drawn at whether a technique causes physical injury. Pain is a poor determining factor, since that can be so subjective. Someone could potentially claim torture simply because they were made to sit in a chair for a long time while their legs cramped.

Waterboarding does not have a place in this country's domestic law enforcement, but when we are considering the interrogation of non-citizens under war time or terroristic scenarios, I think we can all agree that more aggressive tactics are appropriate when other attempt fail. Comparing it to the terroristic tactics that we face these days, and the history of unfair, inhumane, injurious, and deadly treatment our own captive soldiers have suffered over the last century, waterboarding seems like a fairly reasonable technique. I would not be that unhappy to learn that any of our own military personnel have been waterboarded, as long as they can come home in one piece to tell about it. In the past, they have not been given that opportunity.

Neocon,

Thank you for your reasonable and well thought out post. If you posted this way most of the time, folks would not try to marginalize you, imho. But you allow the likes of DD/TLC to provoke you into reacting in the same manner he posts, again imho. Then all the insults exacerbate into a free-for-all. This is a total turn-off for me and I stop reading. If one of you makes a point, I don't read it due to the fact I have stopped reading. This school yard type fighting makes me nauseous.

Have you noticed I do not respond to "Nice post, Yvonne" or any such comment to engage me in a conversation? If I responded, it would look like I endorse TLC's insults. I DO NOT. I have called him and Dan out many times for their childish behavior. Yes, it has been a year or so ago. My reason for not doing it lately is I realized I was making no progress in changing anything. As I said in another post, my health has not been the best lately and I have limited energy. Therefore, I pick my battles.

Limited energy, accepting some things are futile and not wanting to engage in what I call gutter-fighting are the reasons I do not respond (usually) when someone insults me. You have been around since the beginning, neocon, so you know I have been called everything from bitch, whore, crazy, loony, insane, insensitive, inhumane, stupid, commie and on and on. My sanity has been questioned as well as my values, morals and character, many times by you.

I did not post for a couple of months one time. I reflected on this particular blog during that time. Why have so many "regulars" dropped out of sight, figuratively speaking? IMHO, it is due to the fact that so many threads dissolve into havoc. Rather than attack ideas, most start attacking one another. Rarely does anything get discussed without it becoming a screaming match. Anything goes, There are no rules or common sense being used. Absolutely nothing gets accomplished when this happens, no valid exchange of ideas, no reasonable points to consider.

You also know that I entered this forum with the attitude I could say what I damned well pleased without regard for any negative response. A couple of people, who post here no more, emailed me and told me the same thing. They said the validity of my posts were being disregarded because of the way I expressed them. I gave their comments thought and decided they were right. So I began to read my posts as someone else might interpret them. While it does not work in all posts and some people misunderstand my meaning, I have tried to restate and be understood. It is not my intent to offend but once again I do not always succeed in my intent.

I do not hate you and never have. I simply hate your behavior sometimes. I hate all the harsh, hate-filled words and ideas expressed. We can disagree on everything and I hold no animosity toward you. I just have issue with being accused of things of which I am not guilty and it being stated with anger and venom.

It is my opinion YD crossed the line of civility in his rants. Like my posts of yore, his cross over into that questionable realm of appropriateness, causes one to disregard his intended POV. His crudeness and venom are my issue.

I am liberal but I have never spat on anyone. I have never called our soldiers baby-killers. To acknowledge that our nation is, in part, responsible for major wrong-doing does not equate to condemnation for everything. We have some serious problems that are entirely homemade and has nothing to do with outside sources. To blame all our problems on other nations and make excuses for our immoral behavior in certain situations is not my reality. I believe in personal responsibility and think we, as a nation, need to start accepting some

Unbiased,

I also thank you for your civil post and your effort to discuss the issue rather than attack me. You are right. We could discuss the definitions of many things til the end of time without coming to agreement. You are right, also, in stating over time we have softened our definitions of many words.

As a nation, I hold out the hope we will become more civilized than the people who lived in the time of the inquisition and those whom we condemn now. Just because the terrorists have beheaded people is no reason to follow suit. Nor is it reason, imho, to aspire to out-perform their barbaric acts. I am not saying waterboarding is worse than beheading someone. What I am saying is, if the "experts" agree that this technique and other harmful techniques are not proven useful in obtaining reliable information, whether it is considered torture or not, why employ it?

My statement regarding "becoming the beast" was well proven by YD's rant. The intolerance expressed by him is the same intolerance we accuse the terrorist of having. The difference is YD is only expressing his intolerance. However, his expressed attitude is basically the same; there is no allowance for a differing opinion.

Our nation, led by GWB, projects a superiority over other nations. They don't know what's best for themselves so we need to decide for them. If they resist our interference, anything goes to force Americanization on them. This includes holding people who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time without cause and hurting them in the name of "gaining information". Is this logical to you? Is it logical to do what you want to do, whether it is legal or not, and say it's justified because it's war?

The Iraqi people did not come here and attack us. We went there, forced ourselves on them and then tried to make all the rules. Had the situation been reversed, had they come here and tried to do the same thing, what would you do to defend yourself and your family?

"Neocon,
You really are to be pitied. You display an amazing ability to surprise even me, which is hard to do, with your warped view of reality."
```
"YD accomplished one thing in his rants, proving how unhinged someone could become when the wrong buttons are pushed."

```
"your stated POV is just like the militant Muslims you are always condemning."
*****************************************************
"Have you noticed I do not respond to "Nice post, Yvonne" or any such comment to engage me in a conversation?"

Point made.

I wish you well. Peace.