News-Record.com

It'd be good if the parents .. excuse me parent .. of the child "forced to live in public housing because of life circumstance and income" ... would impress on her children ... 'cause he's long come and gone .. the reality of "pay attention and learn or you're stuck here."

"More social programs" will only widen the abyss, Ms. Lohr.
"Social programs" that have taken the place of a father figure is the reason "They are forced to live in public housing because of life circumstance and income."

But hey, who needs a strong male father figure to look up to when you've got Fity Cent and a pair of speakers the size of a young volkswagen blasting out his message of hope?

After over 30+ years in the law enfocement field, both sworn and unsworn, this I know: There is no social program, ever that will keep a murderer from killing.
And, I've been standing on my soap box yelling out that "there are monsters living among us"! Not the hairy, long fanged, fightning type we have enjoyed watching in the hollywood movies.
The true monsters are just everyday people, looking normal and average. These monsters have families that love them, but do not want to recognize the traits of a monster. Traits that many educationed professionals have established that could point out the future problems that could arise in a young person.
Take for example Craig M. Copeland (5/24/61). This is the monster just arrested for the rape and strangulation of a 19 year young lady in a park in Almance County a couple of days ago. This guy has been commiting crimes of violence against the community since 1980. He only does a few months of prison time, then a release. Each time, he get more violent with his victims. His intent this time was to murder this young lady. Hell, I bet he gets 6 months this time.
See the problem? And, how many of you out there believe some tender loving care for this guy (Copeland) along with wonderful counseling will make him a warm, loving community member? How many of you would hire this guy to babysit your child?
The anal-retentive, asshole Crime Dog says to drop this guy in a deep dark cell, and never, ever let him out to hurt another person, again.
The monsters are out there, and as bad as the police want to protect the community, they can not. All the police can really do is clean up the physical mess and try to catch the monster.
I'm not being critical of law enforcement, I do honor their efforts. But, law enforcement is not preventive. They are reactive.
The Dog's outa here.
Crime Dog

"More social programs and police officers surely could help."

Here are three things that will really help instead of taking more of our tax money Anna:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&categoryId=15703&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15701&top_category=15701

http://www.adt.com/wps/portal/adt/for_your_home/products_services

http://www.justbats.com/

"But why is this not the case in other neighborhoods in the city, specifically those low-income areas with higher crime rates?"

If it's an innocent victim it does provoke an outrage, but if it's one gang banger or drug dealer knocking off another gang banger or drug dealer then it's one less gang banger or drug dealer around and no one cares.

These discussion boards are nothing but an outlet for close-minded conservatives to rant about how THEY are not responsible for today’s problems. How can you not care when one person dies, one person is hungry, or one person is homeless. This should not happen in an industrialized county. Simply put. It is a shame that you don’t care enough to think about others. It is a shame you use this forum to post racist, stereotyping, belittling comments that generalize people with low income. I go to school for social work. I work or volunteer almost EVERY DAY to make some sort of micro impact on this macro problem. What do you do? You sit at the News and Record opinion page and attack anyone who proposes that this world could be a better place. That one “gang banger” of “drug dealer” is someone’s father, son, brother, sister, mother or friend. Did you ever stop to think they didn’t choose that lifestyle? Public assistance doesn’t pay that well, dealing drugs is a much steadier income. I’m not defending that lifestyle but if you have to feed your family what would you do? We aren’t all that different from those in low income housing, and with this economy slipping farther and farther into recession, I’d watch what you say because I might be the social worker you come to see for food stamps in a few year. Quit complaining and do something about it.

Anna Lohr

Before I am attacked because of my typos let me acknowledge them. Excuse me, but I go to a public university that your hard earned yet insufficient tax money helps pay for. They don’t teach us how to spell check there. Maybe if you had a higher paying job your tax money could benefit me more.

Anna,

Welcome to the forum. Your insight is appreciated, and I'm sure I speak for many when I say I hope you'll post often. There are a number of contributors, myself included, who know much less now than we did when we were your age. Your spark is crucial to your argument.

Roger

“These discussion boards are nothing but an outlet for close-minded conservatives to rant about how THEY are not responsible for today’s problems.”

When someone is murdered it’s not a red vs. blue issue. However, it’s not that these “close-minded” conservatives don’t care or don’t think it’s their problem. What’s going on is that most conservatives believe that dad is just as necessary in a child’s life as mom. It’s not really surprising that amount of crime due to gang violence has been steadily increasing ever since the family court system decided that fathers don’t matter. Just because someone holds the belief that preventing societal problems through good parenting and moral behavior; that doesn’t make them closed-minded. In fact, the right and ability to disagree are the foundations of our first amendment and academia for that matter. As someone trying to better herself through education, you should recognize that. If you’re so open-minded, why can’t you appreciate that others just happen to have different views on the subject?

All this said, not every government program is bad. Things like state-funded colleges and universities are a good example. These institutions allow folks to become self-sufficient and productive in society. As long as folks look exclusively to social welfare programs to fix societal woes, there will continue to be a perceived need for social welfare programs because pe. I understand that there may be folks who are mentally or physically challenged, and in such cases welfare programs may be applicable… to a point. However, if you’ve got two good hands, a good back, two good legs, and are of average intelligence then you’ve got no reason to not try and get a job. It’s when assistance programs like unemployment insurance are exploited that they become ineffective.

“Did you ever stop to think they didn’t choose that lifestyle?”

If someone is mugged, of course they didn’t choose to be mugged. However, he/she can choose to cooperate with the thief and hopefully live, or resist and face the possibility of being shot. A young mother-to-be can choose adoption, abortion, or to keep the child. A poor (in the economic sense) and misguided 16 year-old boy has the choice not to hold up that ABC store for money. Sure, none of these people chose to be poor or fall into an unfortunate circumstance, but there is always a choice. Anyone can choose to do the right thing. Continually playing the victim card is what’s causing our society to degrade in the first place. People need to try and accept some responsibility for themselves, no matter what hand they’re dealt in life.

Anna, I understand you are a college student and full of idealism but methinks thou accuseth and jumpeth to conclusions a bit too fast. To make the blanket statement that conservatives don't care enough to think about others epitomizes this line of thought.

Yes in an ideal world no one would die, no one would be hungry, no one would be homeless, and no one would be a victim of a crime. The bad news is it isn't a perfect world and will never be. You can add all the social programs you want and it still won't eradicate poverty. Have you studied the "War on Poverty" in school? Forty years later has it eradicated poverty?

"Public assistance doesn’t pay that well, dealing drugs is a much steadier income. I’m not defending that lifestyle but if you have to feed your family what would you do?"

This is very revealing Anna. You paint drug dealers as sincere guys working overtime just to take care of the wife and kids. Give me break while I pause and get my hankie.

Actually drug dealers are a scourge to society no better than pedophiles and murderers. Pedophiles because they prey on kids by getting them hooked on drugs which will can ruin their futures forever. Murderers because the results of their "work" results in the deaths of many through drug overdoses, crimes on innocents and the consistent drug dealer shoot outs.

Read Crime Dog's post again. He has spent 30 years in law enforcement and I'm certain he could tell you much better than myself the tragedies caused by drug dealers. Some of these people are monsters as he describes and no amount of social programs or social workers is going to change that.

Congratulations on your part in helping others, that is commendable. As someone who portrays herself as such a caring individual, you may want to enforce that portrayal by declining to launch broad attacks on people you don't even know. Not too caring in my opinion.

I was not joking with my links. A gun, alarm system and baseball bat are good deterrents from having someone break into your house. A loud dog is useful also, we have two that bark at eardrum breaking volume when someone approaches the door.

As for spelling errors I would suggest downloading Mozilla Firefox.

http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/

It underlines misspelled words in red.

Anna, if you are going to post here, you'd better get used to the "close minded conservatives." A lot of them learned at the elbow of Sen. Jesse Helms. And a lot of them pulled themselves up by their bootstraps - or so they would like to think.

"And a lot of them pulled themselves up by their bootstraps - or so they would like to think."

Please explain to me what's wrong with being self-sufficient. I understand that you may have different opinion, but blanketing a group as having some sort of inherent problem because they believe in people taking responsibility for their actions and self-sufficiency isn't exactly being open-minded either.

“As someone who portrays herself as such a caring individual, you may want to enforce that portrayal by declining to launch broad attacks on people you don't even know. Not too caring in my opinion.”

Perhaps you missed the above comments where low-income families were stereotyped. Great example, “But hey, who needs a strong male father figure to look up to when you've got Fity Cent and a pair of speakers the size of a young volkswagen blasting out his message of hope?” Also, not all families in government housing are fatherless. I was merely trying to point out the difference in media coverage between murders in a high and low income areas with my editorial. The disparities say multitudes about our society, but not as much as the racist, sexist sentiments in these comments. Forgive me for not apologizing for being idealistic. I realize the world we live in has imperfections, but I also realize that with the right amount of effort change could be made. It seems like an easy thing, to pull yourself up from the shallows of poverty and get a job, education, and the money required “make it.” I hate to break it to you, but even at 22 years old I see how impossible this is for most. What job can you get without a high school diploma? A low paying one. How many hours would you have to work to make rent with this job? A lot of over time. When do you have time to go to school to better yourself? Maybe, just maybe a little bit. What types of promotions or upward mobility do these low paying jobs give you? Now tell me, is it truly possible for everyone to follow this hard-work-will-pay-off model so they can take responsibility for themselves and not need some sort of government support. As for the War on Poverty comment, yes, I’ve heard of it, and yes, I see it doesn’t work. Change it, with the right policy I believe it can be done.

“As someone who portrays herself as such a caring individual, you may want to enforce that portrayal by declining to launch broad attacks on people you don't even know. Not too caring in my opinion.”

Perhaps you missed the above comments where low-income families were stereotyped. Great example, “But hey, who needs a strong male father figure to look up to when you've got Fity Cent and a pair of speakers the size of a young volkswagen blasting out his message of hope?” Also, not all families in government housing are fatherless. I was merely trying to point out the difference in media coverage between murders in a high and low income areas with my editorial. The disparities say multitudes about our society, but not as much as the racist, sexist sentiments in these comments. Forgive me for not apologizing for being idealistic. I realize the world we live in has imperfections, but I also realize that with the right amount of effort change could be made. It seems like an easy thing, to pull yourself up from the shallows of poverty and get a job, education, and the money required “make it.” I hate to break it to you, but even at 22 years old I see how impossible this is for most. What job can you get without a high school diploma? A low paying one. How many hours would you have to work to make rent with this job? A lot of over time. When do you have time to go to school to better yourself? Maybe, just maybe a little bit. What types of promotions or upward mobility do these low paying jobs give you? Now tell me, is it truly possible for everyone to follow this hard-work-will-pay-off model so they can take responsibility for themselves and not need some sort of government support. As for the War on Poverty comment, yes, I’ve heard of it, and yes, I see it doesn’t work. Change it, with the right policy I believe it can be done.

“As someone who portrays herself as such a caring individual, you may want to enforce that portrayal by declining to launch broad attacks on people you don't even know. Not too caring in my opinion.”

Perhaps you missed the above comments where low-income families were stereotyped. Great example, “But hey, who needs a strong male father figure to look up to when you've got Fity Cent and a pair of speakers the size of a young volkswagen blasting out his message of hope?” Also, not all families in government housing are fatherless. I was merely trying to point out the difference in media coverage between murders in a high and low income areas with my editorial. The disparities say multitudes about our society, but not as much as the racist, sexist sentiments in these comments. Forgive me for not apologizing for being idealistic. I realize the world we live in has imperfections, but I also realize that with the right amount of effort change could be made. It seems like an easy thing, to pull yourself up from the shallows of poverty and get a job, education, and the money required “make it.” I hate to break it to you, but even at 22 years old I see how impossible this is for most. What job can you get without a high school diploma? A low paying one. How many hours would you have to work to make rent with this job? A lot of over time. When do you have time to go to school to better yourself? Maybe, just maybe a little bit. What types of promotions or upward mobility do these low paying jobs give you? Now tell me, is it truly possible for everyone to follow this hard-work-will-pay-off model so they can take responsibility for themselves and not need some sort of government support. As for the War on Poverty comment, yes, I’ve heard of it, and yes, I see it doesn’t work. Change it, with the right policy I believe it can be done.

“As someone who portrays herself as such a caring individual, you may want to enforce that portrayal by declining to launch broad attacks on people you don't even know. Not too caring in my opinion.”

Perhaps you missed the above comments where low-income families were stereotyped. Great example, “But hey, who needs a strong male father figure to look up to when you've got Fity Cent and a pair of speakers the size of a young volkswagen blasting out his message of hope?” Also, not all families in government housing are fatherless. I was merely trying to point out the difference in media coverage between murders in a high and low income areas with my editorial. The disparities say multitudes about our society, but not as much as the racist, sexist sentiments in these comments. Forgive me for not apologizing for being idealistic. I realize the world we live in has imperfections, but I also realize that with the right amount of effort change could be made. It seems like an easy thing, to pull yourself up from the shallows of poverty and get a job, education, and the money required “make it.” I hate to break it to you, but even at 22 years old I see how impossible this is for most. What job can you get without a high school diploma? A low paying one. How many hours would you have to work to make rent with this job? A lot of over time. When do you have time to go to school to better yourself? Maybe, just maybe a little bit. What types of promotions or upward mobility do these low paying jobs give you? Now tell me, is it truly possible for everyone to follow this hard-work-will-pay-off model so they can take responsibility for themselves and not need some sort of government support. As for the War on Poverty comment, yes, I’ve heard of it, and yes, I see it doesn’t work. Change it, with the right policy I believe it can be done.

Sorry for posting the same thing four times...slow computer.

Ever since the N&R upgraded the website, they got rid of the numerical captcha that kept bots and script kiddies from posting junk, and it also prevented multiple postings. If somebody from the N&R web team is reading this, it's a feature that would really be nice to have back. You guys look like you're running a combination of Solaris, Linux, and W2K3. There are plenty of free and open-source PHP, PERL, and ASP based captcha software packages that would run on any of the platforms you're using for web services.

Here's a link.

http://sourceforge.net/search/?type_of_search=soft&type_of_search=soft&words=captcha

Thanks

"And a lot of them pulled themselves up by their bootstraps - or so they would like to think."

'Tis ironic that some treat with disdain those who succeed by means of hard work and self reliance. In another era that was a commendable act.

"realize the world we live in has imperfections, but I also realize that with the right amount of effort change could be made."

Exactly what constitutes the "right amount of effort"? More social programs? If so what would they be in addition to the programs already in place? How much would they cost? How will they be paid for?

"It seems like an easy thing, to pull yourself up from the shallows of poverty and get a job, education, and the money required “make it.”I hate to break it to you, but even at 22 years old I see how impossible this is for most."

As a present or future social worker is this what you propose to tell people? No one said it was easy, but is the idea to advise people that bettering themselves financially is impossible and the only option is a lifetime of govt. dependency or a life of crime?

"Change it, with the right policy I believe it can be done."

Same questions as above. What is/are the specific policies, cost, and how will it be paid?

As for your letter about disparities in news coverage of murders, you may want to ask the N&R editors.

My best guess is they are in the business to sell news. The murder of an innocent young woman in her Irving park home is very rare and thus is going to get more press than a drug dealer who shot another drug dealer which happens more frequently.

BTW conundrum thanks for not playing the race card. It's still amusing that you think you have the ability to predict voting patterns of people you do not know.

To Bishop, there is nothing wrong with self-sufficiency. I applaud you for it. Have you ever caught a break in life? I just read a story about a 4 yr. old who was beaten to death by his female cousin. She killed him because he soiled his pants. His dope dealing father had dropped him off. This kid never got a chance to be self sufficient. Too bad that he couldn't pick his parents.

To Dan, I have a question for you? Have you ever voted for Sen. Helms? Remember, the truth will set you free.

Ms. Lohr, your passion is admirable, however this 'war on poverty' (which is what you are engaged in apparently, although you may not call it that) has been going on for about 70 years now with no end in sight. Every generation has their new breed of crusaders to carry on the struggle, and without fail we are told "with the right policy I believe it can be done" (FDR, JFK, LBJ, Jimmie Carter...even slick willie... until the new congress neutered him) while the producers are robbed blind to pay for these "right policies" year in and year out with no improvement... Indeed, we are told things are worse now than ever... as a justification for stealing even more from the producers. And when someone questions the policies (or the results of the policies) of those who advocate the confiscation of the private property of one citizen so it can be turned over to another who never lifted a finger to earn it...well they are called "racist" or "sexist" or accused of "wanting to starve the shilldrun" simply because they believe it wrong for the government to steal their property in order to finance voting blocks.

I too was a bleeding heart liberal in my early twenties who hailed the liberals' "war on poverty", but after a few years of financing it, and with things only getting worse (according to the commanding generals) I deserted and became a 'neocon'. No regrets. Now I look at letters like yours and see a good, but naive heart.

... so who were the "commanding generals", Neocon - were they literally your superior officers?

"To Dan, I have a question for you? Have you ever voted for Sen. Helms? Remember, the truth will set you free."

My dear conundrum, do you honestly believe I am a "racist to the core" as you previously stated?

Remember, the truth will set you free.

BTW, I suspect if you and I got together for lunch or dinner we would get along just fine.

rb2dye, remember that "enter" key? It performs a really useful function, creates paragraphs!!! Watch this:

enter

enter

New paragraph!!!

You may have a valid point but it is quite difficult to read 5000 words lumped together in one paragraph.

"To Bishop, there is nothing wrong with self-sufficiency. I applaud you for it. Have you ever caught a break in life?"

Conundrum, I suppose I did catch a break in life. When I was 2 years old, I was adopted by my Mom and Dad. The guy who donated the genetic material in order for me to be born wasn't able to beat the crap out of me anymore. Since then my Mom and Dad taught me about hard work and respect. Whadda ya know? It paid off.