News-Record.com

Just think of the folks in 2000 that thought that they were restoring normalcy after the circus that surrounded Clinton for 8 years. What a comedown for them I imagine. Bush has disappointed almost all of us. For someone that little was expected of (the self described master of low expectations) he has disappointed.

An admitted contrarian, I do not agree Bushy deliberately set out to muck things up. He did however ..

1 - take The Job too lightly ... after all even though his first three businesses failed, he came out all right - heck they never even pursued his insider trading, and how had can a country be compared to a Baseball Team or a State in the middle of an economic boom?

2 - delegate too much. Heck with Cheney and Rummy giving him advice, why bother listening to Powell or anyone else that disagreed with Cheney or Rummy.

3 - bring baggage .. like his father and The Father into the WH. After all, who can argue with (looking heavenward) Him.

4 - care more for reimbursing thems that put him in power than the public he is supposed to be serving. (Sure seems that way, anyhow). By following the good advice of Rove, he was sure to be re-elected, and that meant the People Wanted him, right? Never mind reading the paper or thinking to ask hard questions.

Yep, that's the leader of the Free World!

I'm not sure OBL & Co. will accept your apology, Mr. Badgette. I suspect they would much prefer someone in the WH who was more interested in molesting interns while they planned and carried out their attacks on America.

But I'm sure they appreciate the heartfelt gesture...

I much prefer "We the People" complaining about taxes.

Neo,

I couldn't disagree with you more strongly. OBL has the patsy in the WH that he wants. Of all the folks in the world no one will be sadder than OBL on Jan. 20 of next year.

Although you don't directly say so, I infer that the ltte author is speaking for the people of the United States in issuing his apology. If I am correct, Mr. Badgett, please do not presume to speak for me.

I admit that since the last election, the Congressional leaders have done everything they could to weaken the President's effort to fight the war on terrorism. President Bush has done a very good job keeping them in check, in spite of the public surrenders offered by the likes of Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid.

Our enemies will be delighted next January 20 ---- IF the American people are crazy enough to elect either one of the two Democrat front-runners, both of whom have stated they will make surrender their top priority.

An apology to the world
As a citizen of the United States of America and a member of "We the People," I would like to apologize to the world community for the past shameful and disgraceful behavior of President William Jefferson Clinton and the U.S. Congress -- without whose disregard for the "rule of law" none of this behavior would have been possible.

And can only hope this won't need to be said after the next Presidental term. But I wouldn't count on it.

"I would like to apologize to the world community for the past shameful and disgraceful behavior of President William Jefferson Clinton and the U.S. Congress -- without whose disregard for the "rule of law" none of this behavior would have been possible."

I assume you mean the one that was met by adoring crowds that lined the streets whenever he visited foreign countries unlike the current occupant whose crowds have to be corralled miles away in "free speech zones. I'm talking about countrys that like us and wish us well. I think they've gotten over Mr. Clintons personal misdeeds that never did any one outside his family any harm.

I don't think there is anything that President Clinton could teach Mr. Bush about disregard for the rule of law. Crawford Technical Institute will probably endow a department next to the "George W. Bush Pressidental Lieberry" for Creative Constitutional Interpretation.

Sad but true if you put most folks in the world in a room with OBL GWB &WJC with a gun with 2 bullets they would shoot GWB twice just to make sure.

If you put most Republicans in the same situation they would shoot President Clinton twice.

Who's OBL ??

there was a guy with those initials - like 6 years ago - who funded the 9-11 attacks. At the time he was America's Most Wanted - Dead or Alive I recall hearing.

SURELY with the full Congressional support given - plus the carte blanche & cut-cha-a-break-on America's checks & balances not to mention moral high ground, etc - plus the FULL cooperation of our number one ally, Pakisthan .. (I can go one forever) .. SURELY you do not mean the guy with those initials who - 6 years ago - funded the 9-11 attacks.

Neo,

"I couldn't disagree with you more strongly. OBL has the patsy in the WH that he wants."

Not according to this terrorist, Rufus:

"Of course Americans should vote Democrat," Jihad Jaara, a senior member of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades terror group, and infamous leader of the 2002 siege of Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity, said.

"This is why American Muslims will support the Democrats, because there is an atmosphere in America that encourages those who want to withdraw from Iraq. It is time that the American people support those who want to take them out of this Iraqi mud," said Jaara, speaking from exile in Ireland, where he was sent as part of an internationally brokered deal that ended the church siege.

Jaara and others said that they believe the Democrats came into power because of the party's position on withdrawing from Iraq, and that ensures victory for the worldwide Islamic resistance.

Muhammad Saadi, a senior leader of Islamic Jihad in the northern West Bank town of Jenin, said the Democrats' talk of withdrawal from Iraq makes him feel "proud."

"As Arabs and Muslims we feel proud of this talk," he said. "Very proud from the great successes of the Iraqi resistance. This success that brought the big superpower of the world to discuss a possible withdrawal."
******************************************************

Spin this any way you want, but this does not in any shape, form, or fashion appear to be an endorsement of Bush.

It sounds to me like Jaara and Saadi long for the days when they could plan attacks on American warships and attempt to blow up the WTC while the president was preoccupied with...with...ahem...'other matters'.

About the only way to differentiate between OBL's rhetoric and the democrats' is to watch for this disclaimer at the end of a speech: "But of course I support the troops". Bin Laden at least has the sack to admit that he, like Billy Jeff, "loathes the American military".

Neocon: Who's OBL ??

There was a guy with those initials - like 6 years ago - who sorta funded the 9-11 attacks. Actually he was broke, but his homey friends granted his cause some money. At one time this guy was America's Most Wanted - I recall hearing "Dead or Alive".

SURELY with full Congressional support - plus all Patriotic Americans giving carte blanch - including the cut-cha-a-break-on America's checks & balances - not to mention suspension of the moral high ground - plus the FULL cooperation of our number one ally, Pakistan .. (I can go one forever) .. SURELY you do not mean the guy with those initials who - 6 years ago - funded the 9-11 attacks

OBL Who ?? Jeeze do I feel stupid!

Here's a sad commentary .. type in "FBI most wanted" and you get - Top Dead Center -- A FREAKING USA MARINE.

"http://www.fbi.gov/wanted.htm

Jihad Jaara.

The (engineered by then deputy director George Tenet) CIA trained veteran Palestinian militant who in 2005 resided in Ireland ... who was chief in Bethlehem of the Brigades, the declared "military wing" of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party.

http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=27222

WAIT .. I thought we were talking OBL.

MY REAL POINT:

This is a convoluted mess. Any simplification is over-simplification.

The first "attacks on the WTC" were years before Clinton " was preoccupied with...with...ahem...'other matters'. .. and they had nothing to do with OBL (whomever that is .. I'm still waiting for an answer, 'cause surely the Almight America destroyed this broke pansy years ago - right?)

Neo, not only do terrorists support Democrats, dictators like papa Fidel do too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8ykRN1tKxo

And various terrorists and dictators were gleeful that Dems took over Congress in '06.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18042

For all of McCain's faults, and there are many, he would likely fight the war in Islamic extremism better than Hillary or Obama. Terrorists know Hillary and Obama's promises to pull out of Iraq toute de suite, hence they can declare victory in Iraq, so get real Rufus, they await the day with baited breath that GWB is gone and a Dem sits in the Oval Office.

humanevents.com .. leading the conservative movement since 1944 .. yea, that's "fair and Balanced", Dan. Did the 1944 conservative movement include drunk Republican Joseph Raymond McCarthy?

Human Events .. President Reagan's "favorite newspaper". Is this the same President Reagan that increased the size of the US G-Men 183%? just checking .. cause the Reaganesque principles I remember were different fromthe reality.

Point, my friend .. is that they are all slimy bastards .. R's as well as D'd. If you insist on getting your information near-exclusively from Hannity and company like HumanEvents.com .. you should seriously consider washing your hands very frequently .. or better .. consider other sources as a truer balance. NPR does not count.

Speaking of Reagan .. here's a little factoid I recently learned:

The Tax Reform actof 1986 included rhetoric like "eliminating the tax preferences for the rich and powerful", but included 650 "transition rules" and "technical corrections" like:

"In the case of a broker dealer which is part of an affiliated group which files a consolidated Federal tax incom return, the parten of which was incorporated in Nevada on January 27, 1972 ..."

Yea, no specality carves there ..

"OBL" is the acronym for 'Ohio Bankers' League' ; a Columbus, Ohio based company that serves evil financial institutions...you know, the real enemy of America.
****************************************************

Dan, I've never heard nor read anywhere where America's enemies endorsed the likes of Ronald Reagan or drunk Republican Joe McCarthy prior to an election, have you?

From the link:
"Will Democrats now help win the war in Iraq? Al Qaeda-in-Iraq?s leader, Abu Hamza al-Muhajir, had this to say, ***"The victory day has come faster than we expected."***

I don't recall quotes like this being made by Gorbachev when Reagan was elected, do you? I can't think of a single incident when the Ayatollah Khomeini endorsed Reagan over lil Jimmy Carter... can you?

Another gem for the campaign trail:

"I hope Hillary is elected in order to have the occasion to carry out all the promises she is giving regarding Iraq," stated Ala Senakreh, West Bank chief of the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades terrorist group.

Bottom line: Democrats have a lock on the terrorist voting block. There is no denying this...only spin and innuendo like "they are all slimy bastards" and "drunk Republican Joe McCarthy yada, yada, yada".

It never fails...when you produce a direct quote from these rag heads who are hell bent on destroying America praising and campaigning for the democrats, all you get in return is white noise. Are we to believe that they support the democrats because their numbers have swelled to unmanageable proportions under Bush, their "best recruiting tool"? Do they want democrats elected because they have a desire to see their numbers diminish worldwide?...
Riiiight.

"I can't think of a single incident when the Ayatollah Khomeini endorsed Reagan over lil Jimmy Carter... can you?"

Uhhhh....no can't remember that at all Neo. In fact weren't several hundred American hostages freed from Iran when Reagan was sworn in? Ya suppose the dear 'ol Ayatollah released them as a goodwill gesture for the 'ol Gipper? Riiiiight.

Sorry you didn't appreciate my link JDR. When I did a Google search for "terrorists Democrats elections" nothing from CNN, MSNBC, PBS, NYT, LA Times, or the N&R popped up. Gee I wonder why?

Tis interesting Neo, direct quotes from terrorists concerning the 2006 and 2008 elections and JDR spins McCarthy into the mix. Now that spin beats my Kitchenaid mixer.

... you produced a direct quote from a Palistian terrorist hell bent on destroying Israel.

That you cannot distinguish facts from partisan rhetoric means you are really stupid (which I do not believe) or just close minded (which is obvious).

The Middle East is a convoluted mess. Your over-simplification as a means of dividing America over partisan lines is, frankly, between sad and disgusting.

I tell my kids "Ignorance can be cured"; do yourself a favor.

Here's a good example: You continually diss' Carter for his mis-handling of Iran .. but ever administration after him did the same thing.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118739533381601535.html

I knew you would still be up JDR. The wife & I shed the kids for the evening, went to dinner and saw 'The Bucket List'. Good flick. Meathead is a partisan hack yet still an excellent film director. First time I've seen and adult flick in awhile.

Perhaps 'm stupid and definitely closed minded? You taking over for Demon Deacon?

We agree the Middle East is a convoluted mess. Always has been and most likely always will be. Many, many, many, many, many, many more presidents will be faced with this convoluted mess. You are missing the point JDR. 'Scuse me for being closed minded JDR.

Terrorists aren't fond of Americans in general no matter who sits in the Oval Office. They prefer us dead or converted to Islam. However......I did provide direct quotes from terrorists stating they prefer Democrats in office. If you can find some quotes stating they prefer Repubs then please provide them.

Since you brought up Reagan, do you think it's just a fluke the American hostages in Iran were released when Reagan was sworn in?

Good article JDR, I especially liked this:

"As Jonathan Swift put it, you cannot reason a man out of something that he did not reason his way into. The Iranian war against the U.S. rests upon fanatical convictions, and Tehran has no interest in resolving it at a conference table."

Mr. Swift is correct, you cannot reason with terrorists. Sooner or later Iran will have to be dealt with. Probably not until the launch a nuke on Israel or a nuke detonates here or in Europe with Iranian fingerprints on it.

Please get off the ignorance bit, you are sounding a bit Deaconesque.

"Bottom line: Democrats have a lock on the terrorist voting block. There is no denying this..."

From http://www.strategicvision.biz/political/iowa_poll_120607.htm

==

Below are the results of a three-day poll in the state of Iowa. Results are based on telephone interviews with 600 likely Republican caucus goers ...

4. Do you favor a withdrawal of all United States military from Iraq within the next six months? (Republicans Only)
Yes 50%
No 38%
Undecided 12%

Perhaps 'm stupid and definitely closed minded?

... I said you were NOT stupid - but when you post a Palistinian Terrorist as al Qeada .. what am I to think?

==

Terrorists preferring Democrats to Repub's is a bit of a no brainer .. because they like most American believe the words and do not follow the actions. You want proof? How about the near-gaurantee the Wide Eyed Queen gave after the 2006 elections about getting US out of Iraq .. we're still there, huh?

==

I have only two rationale about why the American hostages in Iran were released when Reagan was sworn in. Either they were paid off - and I've not found any evidence of that - or they were rubbing in the face of Carter .. which is most likely.

Perhaps a better question is, what did Reagan do to make it happen? Does he deserve any credit?

"Good article JDR, I especially liked ... you cannot reason with terrorists".

I hope you also got this too: Every administration has mishandled Iran.

You want reprieve? Then stop the partisan BS.

I was looking for you to provide quotes from terrorists stating they preferred a Republicans in office, not a poll from 600 'likely' Republican Iowa caucus goers wanting to get out of Iraq. Try again.

"Terrorists preferring Democrats to Repub's is a bit of a no brainer" Now we are getting somewhere.

"How about the near-gaurantee the Wide Eyed Queen gave after the 2006 elections about getting US out of Iraq .. we're still there, huh?"

Yep we are. And I think if Hillary or Obama wins the big prize I predict we will still be there when they realize the consequences of immediate withdrawal. That will definitely piss off the base.

"Either they were paid off - and I've not found any evidence of that - or they were rubbing in the face of Carter .. which is most likely"

Nor will you find any evidence of them being paid off. Rubbing the face of Carter could have factored but perhaps they knew Reagan was serious about kicking some ass?

As it is now officially Super Bowl Sunday I will relate this. In sports one of the main objectives is to capitalize on the weaknesses of your opponent. Jihadists work the same way. Therefore supporting presidential candidates who advocate immediate surrender in Iraq is in the best interest of jihadists. Fortunately they cannot vote.

Last post, time to turn off the laptop and get some shuteye.

Finding a quote from a Palestinian in Ireland doesn't really strike me as proof of al Quadas thoughts on the matter. I guess I could quote Ron Paul on Iraq & tell you what the republicans thought on the matter which would be a better metaphor because Ron Paul IS a republican.

My original point was except for Bush where would they find a leader that would take their single terrorist act & turn it from where practically every one in the world supported America to where most folks came to the opinion that America WAS the problem. Bush & OBL have been great for each other. Both use the other as a recruiting tool.

"... perhaps they knew Reagan was serious about kicking some ass?"

Yea right. Let's see that documented.

Reagan was more obsessed with commies - as demonstrated by - Reagan not only negeotiated with the Iranian bastards, he sold them weapons - remember Iran-Contra?

This is what I'm talking about, Dan - you go for the fantasy Republicans are Always Better than Democrats. Come-on, dude.

==

Now I agree that Jihadists capitalize on the weaknesses of their opponent ... but it's best to keep focused on the correct opponent.

Are the NE Patriots preparing for the Indianopolis Colts? After all ... some guy named Manning will by their opponent in today's Superbowl .. it's just not the same Manning. Jaara is/was a terrorist .. just not related to Iraq.

==

Therefore supporting football players who advocate immediate surrender to the Indianapolis Colts is in the best interest of the New England Patriots. Fortunately they won't be playing.

" .. quote Ron Paul on Iraq & tell you what the republicans thought ... because Ron Paul IS a republican."

Thanks Rufus, that's what I was trying to say.

"Bush & OBL ... use the other as a recruiting tool."

Amen. That's my biggest beef against Bush. He has CLEARLY used "The War On Terror" for political advange .. and I just can't fathom the people that suck that up.

One More thing - speaking of Ron Paul.

While I think McCain will be the next president, I suspect the margin of victory will be determined by whom they pick for VP. McCain is long in the tooth, and am not convinced Obama would not be assassinated.

Nit has a chance, but unless flip-flops are again seen attached to the back of SUV's (as I saw in 'o4), we'll know party of hypocrites.

Hilary also has a chance. She's so divisive - but perhaps a totally locked government would be the best thing - after all, Classic Liberals like myself as well as True Conservatives believe in laissez-faire ...

Classical liberalism (also known as traditional liberalism[1] and laissez-faire liberalism[2], or, in much of the world, simply called liberalism) is a doctrine stressing individual freedom. This includes the importance of human rationality, individual property rights, natural rights, the protection of civil liberties, constitutional limitations of government, free markets, and individual freedom from restraint as exemplified in the writings of Adam Smith, John Stuart Mill[3], Montesquieu, Voltaire[4], Thomas Paine and others.

"My original point was except for Bush where would they find a leader that would take their single terrorist act & turn it from where practically every one in the world supported America to where most folks came to the opinion that America WAS the problem."

So you think "most folks" think America IS the problem?
I would agree that most LIBERALS (traditional and laissez-faire types) think America is the problem and this mindset has been propagated to a great extent by the lamestream liberal media and left wing websites, much to the delight of America's enemies, I might add.
From 'World Affairs':

"On the popular Daily Kos leftist blog (around 2.5 million hits a month), Markos Moulitsas Z posted an entreaty entitled, "Why Berg Was Murdered." : ("The Daily Kos"...wonder why a terrorist feels this is a place where his comments will be taken to heart?...or even published?)

"The lesson (of Berg's murder) is that not finishing the job in Afghanistan and invading Iraq with no good rationale gave Al Qaida and similar groups time to catch their breath, reorganize, and direct their efforts against a conveniently near target Iraq, Moulitsas writes. "This is the neocon "flypape" theory in all its glory. It's working. The neocons WANTED it this way. And they got it. Congratulations. (Blaming America for Nick Berg's decapitation)
But Z doesn't just say "congrats" at the conclusion of his rambling conspiracy theory and go on his merry way. He keeps flailing away in barely controlled anger:

"The prison abuse didn't cause Berg's horrific murder, 'Z' writes. "Bush's (inept) War, in all its glory, did. The Neocon agenda, in all its folly, did. The war cheerleaders now trying to use this for propaganda purposes, in all their idiocy, did. Congrats. Your war spirals ever out of control. Good luck trying to wash the blood out of your hands."
******************************************************
"Your war spirals ever out of control. Good luck trying to wash the blood out of your hands"? Hmm...where have I heard this before?...Let's see, it's right on the tip o' my tongue...Oh yeah:

How many times have we heard this quote, nearly word for word, espoused by Harry Reid, the wide eyed queen, or John Murtha on the Senate floor or the US house?

How about hollywood liberal elitists (and Hillary/O!bama supporters) going on TV and informing a worldwide audience that "there is very credible evidence that 9/11 was inside job"?

Do you think this would influence world opinion and give our enemies a much needed morale boost?

Do you think a democrat congressman speaking in the house chamber and describing US Marines as "cold blooded murderers and killer of innocent Iraqis"- while the world watches - could be one reason that "most folks" think the US IS the problem? I do.

I know, I know...they're ALL slimy bastards and Ol' Joe was a drunk Republican. This excuses the democrats and their loon constituents who offer support, comfort, and hope to the enemy by blaming the US for all the world's woes.

So Mr. Badgette, go ahead and "apologize to the world" if you want, but count me out. I have no intention of crawling to the feet and cowering to these Islamofascist bastards that enjoy the support of the American left, be they traditional or laissez - faire types.

Neo,

Foreign folks that like America and wish us well think we are making the situation worse for us and for them by what we're doing in Iraq. We didn't focus on the problem. We took an area of the world that in effect was neutralized & opened a new front with new enemies. We are wasting ourselves and our resources in a place that wasn't a problem while the Talaban & al Quada are coming back in Afghanistan & Pakistan (a nuclear power btw) is teetering on collapse. We need someone in charge that will make the main thing, the main thing once again.

Neo, the world isn't one big ideological contest between folks that call themselves liberals & folks that call themselves conservatives. It's quite a bit more nuanced than that.

All I can say about this is that the American people will neither put up or shut up. They will not actually "support the troops" any more than GWB supports the troops. Neither the America People nor GWB will provide adequate numbers of troops (even when Congress was controlled outright by the so-called pro-military Republican Party). Neither Bush nor the war supporters pounding their chests took the time to actually serve their country.

If you are pro-war, why are you here typing LsTTE instead of patrolling the streets? Too old? Join Haliburton, drive a truck for the cause. There is SOMETHING you can do if you REALLY mean it. Or maybe you are watching too many war movies from the comfort of your recliner.

Seems to me this ridiculous us-versus-them that the Republican are promoting (by them I mean the Dems) is music to our enemies ears. A nation divided cannot stand and both parties stand for division.

Those that blame Clinton's affair with Lewinski are being disingenous--he lied about sex Bush LIED, LIED, LIED about WMD. Bush Lied. Anyone who claims otherwise is also a liar. Bush should have been impeached for violating his oath of office. If the Republicans had standards instead of politics, they would have started impeachment proceedings right away. And before you spout some propaganda about WMD actually being found in IRAQ, let me remind you what they found was a hardware store with the same chemicals that are in any Ace hardware in the world. Just more Bush lies and propaganda. Bush is without a doubt the worst president in modern history.

Those that say it is unpatriotic to dare question GWB are quoting Nazi propaganda. This is the technique that the Nazis used to silence their political opponents.

Once again I ask all patriots to head on over and be a real man--do your part. At the very least you could call for a draft--then call all who oppose it unpatriotic--like McCain, Bush and all the currently running candidates of either party. Or you could campaign for more recruitment, label any young man or woman who doesn't head over as unpatriotic cowards -- Like Bush's kids, Cheney's kids and the children of every single member of Congress). Where did they learn their umpatriotic attitudes? From the parents? Are your kids of military age? Where are they? Iraq, Afghanistan, Chapel Hill? Your answer is measure of the truth of your convictions.

I have a big question for Republicans: why does the military oppose the war in Iraq despite your insistence that it is where we should be fighting? Why did the military and intelligence communities combine to out GWB on his lies about Iraq? Maybe they know he is not a real leader who makes decisions based on fact.

As for the Democrats, not one of them will actually pull the troops out of Iraq. Even the Republicans here know that. My kid is there and even I know it is not time to withdraw. But we can admit, at least to ourselves, that the invasion of Iraq was based on lies and was a damn stupid idea.

Why can we not finish up in Afghanistan-- the true and original threat to the US? And what has this war cost us in terms of global security? The world is NOT more secure and the US is weaker militarily than it has been since World War One. We are on the verge of becoming a third rate power under GWBs "leadership".

"We took an area of the world that in effect was neutralized & opened a new front with new enemies."

A new front...yes. A new enemy...I don't think so.

"Neo, the world isn't one big ideological contest between folks that call themselves liberals & folks that call themselves conservatives."

True. I'm just pointing out the fact that those in this country who blame America and offer support to our enemies by calling the US Marines "cold blooded murderers and killers of innocents" and those who go on tv before a worldwide audience and suggest that 9/11 was an "inside job" or those who call this "Bush's war" and "hopes he can wash the blood off his hands" are self-described liberals.
You deny this?
Also you never answered this question: Do you think such statements as the ones I have described, and beamed all over the world via the liberal media, sway world opinion in our favor, or against us? Do you think such derogatory statements about the US Marines from a sitting US congressman (and self described liberal) boosts the morale of those who wish us great harm...or do you think it has no effect on them nor world opinion?

I'm with neo on blaming the Marines for upholding their oaths. Don't do it. You can't support the troops by calling them "cold blooded murderers." Marines have done nothing but sacrifice themselves for the freedoms that we enjoy. Everyone here is speaking their opinions because of Marines (and of course Army, Air Force and Coasties, and my personal favorite, the US Navy).

Those who suggest 9/11 was an inside job are delusional or liars. End of story. OBL acknowledged responsibility and all evidence points incontrovertibly to the facts as we know them: 19 Muslim Terrorists hijacked planes and used them to attack us.

I still say Bush is a liar, but there is no way to back out of it quickly. We have an obligation to Iraq that it would be dishonorable and disastrous to abandon. I say this even though I did not and do not agree with the original need or action of going to war with Iraq. I supported and still support destruction of the Taliban (not just defeat- total annihilation). Fight the right wars for the right reasons, fight them with everything you've got and destroy the enemy. Half measures are counterproductive.

I am sick of hearing about the "liberal media" when 70% of the media is conservative. The problem is we no longer have an independent press. In the 1960s-1980s they were preaching on behalf of the Dems, now it has reversed.

Also, don't jump on Murtha: he paid the price for his First Amendment rights in blood and bone. He is a Marine, by the way. I hate the way the Conservative Press has swift-boated him. Funny how Rush Limbaugh thinks he has a right to call Murtha unpatriotic. What the hell has that lard butt ever done for his country besides suck it dry of all honest conversation?

I liked your last post, Rufus_T.Firefly. , but "Sad but true if you put most folks in the world in a room with OBL GWB &WJC with a gun with 2 bullets they would shoot GWB twice just to make sure." Inappropriate when discussing the President.

Dan you are right on the money with "...I think if Hillary or Obama wins the big prize I predict we will still be there when they realize the consequences of immediate withdrawal. That will definitely piss off the base." Also "Neo, not only do terrorists support Democrats, dictators like papa Fidel do too:" I do not agree with the statement about terrorists, I think they hate all Americans. But dictators almost always spring from the Left (Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Castro, Chaves, all the Latin American dictators). But who ever said there are only two choices?

To me, withdrawal is not an option and not really up for debate...Obama and Hillary are pandering and MOST Democrats and Independents, as well as Republicans, do not support precipitous withdrawal. Most of us have already lived through the Viet Nam fiasco (and the smaller Somaliland fiasco) and don't need another one.
So since the Iraq war is not really a voting issue, I will be voting on internal issues--the economy, the economy and maybe the economy.

Thanks for your posts Verelse. We disagree on the Bush lied bit, I don't think Bush purposefully lied to invade Iraq for it's oil, etc. I DO think he terribly "misunderestimated" (to use his term) what a tar baby he would get us into however. And I also believe the Rummy strategy was a dismal failure.

I've posted numerous times prior that we can debate all day long whether we should or should not have gotten into a war in Iraq, but all that debate will not change the cold hard fact that people like your sona are there now. So at this point that debate is useless imho.

Now the right debate is getting out, and I've made my point on that with Hillary or Obama in the Oval Office. I personally don't think we will be out of Iraq for a loooonnnggg time regardless of who is in office. After all we are still in S. Korea and Germany, the latter I cannot understand save it serves as a good location to evacuate and treat wounded soldiers.

I'm glad you belong to the reasonable side that doesn't believe 9/11 was an inside job. I watched a 2 hour TV show called "The 9/11 Conspiracies". It is full kooks who claim 9/11 was an inside job, they just aren't quite as bombastic as Rosie O'Donnell about it. Try watching it sometime if you haven't already seen it.

People like these 9/11 conspiracy kooks and politicians like Murtha, Reid, and Kerry do a great disservice to our country with their statements. I don't understand how anyone could think otherwise.

Terrorists are very technically savvy and can follow American events easily via the Internet. To watch these statements from our politicians HAS to encourage them.

Imagine politicians crying the war was lost on D-Day. Wouldn't have happened. It's a different time.

Neo, you pointed out specific people who assist in progatin

Ooops I had a Neo response on the bottom that I never completed, but the intent was the same as what I already said.

Mr Badgett there is a significant difference in being a "citizen of the United States of America" and being an American. You may be a citizen, but you are 100% un-American.

You,sir, have no right to apologize on behalf of Americans who have - since the founding of this country - fought and died for their beliefs. You have no place, sir, apologizing to the world community - the majority of which agree and support US Global activities (exception: Iran, et al) - for actions that are completely in line with the charge of the US Constitution.

You have the right to free speech, to vote, etc. I assume you have read the document. It does not say you have the right to make a public apology on bahalf of a majority who do not agree with your propoganda.

I just read the rest of the comments and cannot believe I got caught up in this crap. You people really do not have a life! I'm going back to work.