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1971

Obama is now attacking the NCLBA with vigor--he is gaining grass roots support from any and everyone familiar with how that law works. It has been said, in at least two national publications, that Obama's newest supporters come from those who abhor NCLB! We need EVERY politician to publicly rebuke that law so something with some real time, real life expectations can be put on the system. This George W. Bush era law, should go the way of the color coding alerts after Bush won re-election--to the trash bin!

Note to neocon:
(The header on the letter did not want to know the year you dropped out of high school. You did make the rest of us laugh!)

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Great letter, William. I know how frustrated you and all your co-workers must be. I have two grandchildren still in school, so I see some of what you are talking about. I was delighted to see what my 2nd grader is learning in math. Helped him yesterday and he was learning to use a ruler, tell time with a real clock, do fractions, things some of my former high school students had trouble with. What a wonderful job the teachers and principal at Southern Elementary are doing.

Hopefully education will be turned back to educators, part of the Hope and Change I look for.

Very good letter.

It is well to remember the obsession with high stakes testing/accountability began in North Carolina, in the mid 90s if I recall --- well before No Child Left Behind.

Today's testing mania was a response to solid evidence that North Carolina students weren't learning very much when teachers were "free to teach as they pleased."

Thus what reason is there to believe that giving teachers back their classrooms would --- ON AVERAGE --- work in children's best interests?

No doubt such freedom to teach as one pleases would work in children's and teachers' interests for children with very good teachers. But not all teachers are "very good" or even "good." And some are deadwood.

That's the problem of a one-size-fits-all accountability "solution" imposed from above: It takes no account of individual differences --- among teachers, administrators and schools.

Fortunately, tests aren't the only way to make schools and educators accountable. Those who provide services in the private sector are accountable by the simple fact that their customers have the option to go elsewhere. If too many go elsewhere the service-provider must change his/her ways --- or go out of business. Likewise, if more choose his services than he can handle, he can expand.

That simple, flexible "accountability system" would work in education. It's a way to give teachers freedom to teach without sacrificing children to time-servers and deadwood. It's a way to get beyond the testing obessions.

"Those who provide services in the private sector are accountable by the simple fact that their customers have the option to go elsewhere."

Not with monopoly govt. services unfortunately. The only options are to move into a district with a better school or expensive private schools.

Our son is in first grade at a public school and doing very well. Parents laud this school often. Unfortunately the high school in our district has a terrible reputation so we plan on moving before that time.

Don't forget Demon Deacon, Ted Kennedy had his finger is NCLB.

TLC,

While you would love to hang this around George Bush's neck, let's not forget that it was Senator Teddy Kennedy who championed this bill in 2001. He got equal credit for NCLB. A little history for you:

The 670-page No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 (NCLB) was passed with strong bipartisan backing by the House of Representatives on December 13, 2001 by a vote of 381-41, and by the Senate on December 18, 2001 by a vote of 87-10. President George W. Bush signed it into law on January 8, 2002.

The primary sponsors of NCLB were President George W. Bush and Sen. Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts, a decades-long advocate for raising the quality of public education for all American children.

So, to make this a partisan issue is typical of your handiwork. NCLB may be flawed, but your Democrats were part of the problem.

Let us not forget that any school district that does not want to abide by the mandates of NCLB does not have to do so. All they have to do is to stop taking federal funds, but that is something that they will not do, especially this school district. It is addicted to federal money, like it was crack cocaine.

As far as NCLB, let's do away with it, and the Department of Education as well, along with all of those hundreds of millions of dollars that the federal government doles out. The Constitution does not give the federal government any authority in education. It is a province of the state and local governments. Let's let the people of this county decide how much they are wiling to pay for public education and give them a real say in what happens in their schools.

Senator Obama? Yeah, that was another thing that he didn't vote for because he wasn't in Congress. It's easy to make those claims when you weren't there and had to make a decision.

I'm sure as an old school board person, you would agree with this. No unfunded mandates, right?

Who is Mr. Toth referring to when he cites "selfish business interests"? He threw that in at the end without any prior reference. If he is talking about the education vendors that Terry Grier always played footsie with and got free trips to fancy resorts, I agree. Let's get rid of Education, Inc.

TLC,

This comment:

"We need EVERY politician to publicly rebuke that law so something with some real time, real life expectations can be put on the system... [in] the trash bin!"

Is dead on the money.

Bishop,

Don't just stop with NCLB, let's throw the Department of Education in as well, and stop the flow of federal money into out schools. It is that federal money that buys the feds influence in our schools. Our schools just need to say "No".

ORR, you might add that that the PATRIOT Act was a bipartisan deed, and so was the IRAQ war. Just ask Hillary Clinton and John McCain. Have I committed heresy as a Republican, by agreeing with a self-described Liberal? Partisanship is not the issue here, our children's future is the issue. Of course, I suppose your years of experience in teaching are guiding your beliefs concerning the NCLB act.

The idea that all students must be proficient in reading, math, and science by 2014 is grand, but it is not realistic. When I worked in construction, there were guys who couldn’t read very well, but could weld like you wouldn’t believe. The fact that they didn’t read well didn’t make them stupid either. These guys could conceptualize something in their heads, and build it all, without any plans at all. What a novel concept, just because someone isn’t an academic, he/she isn’t necessarily a dummy. Don't just take my word for it, this type of spatial intelligence was displayed by a young man who failed Algebra in grade school. Later, he helped redefine physics as we know it. His name was Albert Einstein.

Nearly every teacher I know (even some I don't know), experienced or entry-level has expressed frustration with the NCLB act. The people in the trenches are better equipped to assess the situation that those that do nothing but sit in their bureaucratic offices all day. This is why countless management studies say that management should talk to subordinates, instead of playing the “Manage by Exception” game that is so characteristic of NCLB.

Not only is the act, causing frustration with our nation’s teachers, it reeks of socialism, and it is unconstitutional. The Constitution grants no authority for the federal government to be involved in education, and for good reason: centralizing all learning in one distant spot is a communist idea, one which has throughout all the world's history led to dictatorship and serfdom.

"Of course, I suppose your years of experience in teaching are guiding your beliefs concerning the NCLB act."

Bishop, what are you talking about? I never said that I was or wasn't a teacher.

You must not have read my post, because I said much the same as you did in your post, but rather than agonize over the miseries of the NLCB, I suggested that the district just ignore it and forego the federal funds which they are so addicted to, which is within the law. If the local schools would get reformed and stop taking federal money, which is poorly used at best, then maybe they could get to the mission; educating children. But, like a drug addict withdrawing from his dope, it is very difficult to do,. without a lot of pain and suffering.

Bishop,
Good points made. ORR always tries to blame Dems, liberals, or anyone but the GOP for failures. He forgets how Bush touted this Act as the mantle of his administration! Forget that Bush did this if you must ORR, let's just fix the dang problem!

Earth to Dan! Earth to Dan!

Ted Kennedy has never been President. Not to say he didn't want to be, but he's never signed one bill into law.

On an unrelated subject:
I have to laugh at McCain coddling up to Pastor John Hagee down in Texas. At least Obama had the guts to "repudiate" Louis Farrakahn! Guess it's okay for hatemongers to endorse the Presidential candidate and be welcomed in the GOP. That must be what they are referring to when they talk about the "big tent"!! LOL!

(Dan, Hagee doesn't really appreciate your Catholic religion)

"Earth to Dan! Earth to Dan!

Ted Kennedy has never been President. Not to say he didn't want to be, but he's never signed one bill into law."

I guess you didn't read ORR's post so here 'tis again:

"The 670-page No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 (NCLB) was passed with strong bipartisan backing by the House of Representatives on December 13, 2001 by a vote of 381-41, and by the Senate on December 18, 2001 by a vote of 87-10. President George W. Bush signed it into law on January 8, 2002."

Here is the way it works Demon Deacon:

Congress votes on bills sponsored (this one by GWB & Kennedy) and this one had overwhelming bipartisan approval if you read the vote count above. Then the president either vetos or signs the bill into law. Without congressional approval the president has no bill to sign into law.

They are all in the process together. See how it works? Please remove the blinders. If you don't like NCLB then blame all of those who voted for it including Teddy K.

In Demon Deacon's mind:

Democrat = omniscient
Republican = evil

TLC,

In case you didn't know, a President can not pass legislation, he can only sing it into law. It took Ted Kennedy and a lot of bi-partisan support in Congress to get it to his desk. If you don't like NCLB, then you need to place the blame on a lot of people, not just Bush (who we know that you hate with a passion). So, if you are in a non-partisan mood, blame them all.

No, I don't want to "fix" NCLB. I want to can it, and all of the hundreds of millions of federal dollars that our schools are addicted to. You can't prostitute yourself for money, then complain about the duties. Schools can stop the NCLB testing any time they choose, just say "No" to the money.

I like how you and all of the other swooners give Obama a pass on everything. Someday, he'll have to answer some tough questions. Hopefully, before he moves into the White House.

We can always count on you to present the biased far left views on this blog, but take care with your personal attacks, so that you don't get banned (as though you getting banned on this blog is really possible). You skate on the edge most of the time.

Is it really true that you used to me a member of the school board? that's what I am hearing?

I'm glad you remember government studies from school ORR, so do I. Seems Demon Deacon thinks the president can make laws without Congress. If that were the case I'd be able to throw 10% of my social security "donations" into a private account and earn a better return.

Of course in Demon Deacon's world Democrats can do no wrong. I too have noticed the vitriol and personal attacks coming back, not as strong as before.......not yet. It must be really difficult to hold back.

"...not just Bush (who we know that you hate with a passion)."

ORR,

Although I agree with your basic stance on this issue, I think the assumption above is unwarranted. I hate what Bush has done to this country but I don't hate the person Bush. I hate the war but I don't hate the people involved in it.

Bishop,

You have done an excellent job of presenting reality on this issue. Not all children are able to grasp algebra or geometry but turn out to have life skills in mathematical jobs. Two of my sons are examples. Math was not their strongest subjects. However, there are few as skilled in cabinet-making. Both are gifted, creative and talented. One gained national recognition in home renovation/restoration when a couple of magazines did articles on a Fisher Park home. (He had offers from as far away as California.)

The comment about the welders made me think of all three sons as the third son is a welder. This son was in the Navy, where he learned that trade. Not a one of them had interest in college. But all had an interest in gaining a skill.

"Partisanship is not the issue here, our children's future is the issue." I think this statement should be taken to heart when discussing NCLB. Also the acknowledgment that thinking outside the box has it's advantages, ie, teaching trade skills before HS.

BTW, did you catch the discussion on NPR about NCLB by teachers themselves?

No need to even try to enlighten ORR as he is hip deep in the religion of FoxNews, Rush etc. Sad, but very evident. As for Dan, he gets caught on one thing and cannot differentiate between what is fact and the fiction he lives by. I've said it before, but I refuse to fight an unarmed person....two in this case.
Yvonne, carry on.

In all these many comments the, one paragraph that's said the most was :ORR's
As far as NCLB, let's do away with it, and the Department of Education as well, along with all of those hundreds of millions of dollars that the federal government doles out. The Constitution does not give the federal government any authority in education. It is a province of the state and local governments. Let's let the people of this county decide how much they are wiling to pay for public education and give them a real say in what happens in their schools.

Nice cop out Demon Deacon, especially the fact and fiction bit. ORR presented the facts: strong bipartisan vote counts on NCLB, you presented the fiction, it's all Bush's fault, Rush, Hannity, etc. How transparently pathetic yet expected.

Just in case you weren't around last night:

WFU-80 - Va Tech 58 (4 straight losses)

UNC 90 - FSU 77

You can't cop out of those facts either but I know you can spin them; "Dan went to UNC-G" yada yada. Carry on Demon Deacon.

Oooops, didn't want to give you false hope.

WFU 58- Va Tech 80

NCLB sucks and everybody in Washington is to blame. It needs to be done away with. Maybe we need some type of accountability for schools, but it should be more local. I'm not sure the federal government should be meddling in education or a number of other things. Local government is where the real power to address problems is. The problem lies in the ability to raise funds for things like education.

Schools already don't have enough money. My sister is a teacher and often buys supplies with her own money. Teachers often have to worry about how much paper they can use and a lot of schools don't have enough books so kids can take them home and study. Federal money is needed. Comparing it to a drug is a little extreme. Where would you suggest we find the necessary funds?
I agree that centralized education is dangerous and likely to be ineffective. I appreciate local and state governments and wish they had more money. I see the need for federal funds and I wish it'd come with less strings.