News-Record.com

http://hillaryclinton.com/issues/healthcare/americanhealthchoicesplan.pdf

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf

http://johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/19ba2f1c-c03f-4ac2-8cd5-5cf2edb527cf.htm

do do do

"And 46 million Americans don’t have health insurance"...

Lack of health 'insurance' does NOT = lack of health 'care' as the socialists and their mouthpieces in the liberal press would have us believe.

There's a reason Tom Daschle is "former" majority leader.

BTW, how fitting that Daschle closed with a quote from an avowed communist.

Neo,

all you ever do is call people names and bash their ideas. do you EVER come up with a constructive idea, or is that beyond your thought process. While some LTE's may be a little far fetched, it's clear that others, like the one above are attempting to find solutions to very complex problems. All you do,however, is bash those that you don't agree with. If you don't have something to bring to the party, shut up already.

Dave,
Good letter. You are to be commended for your efforts at "swimming against the current" in your profession. Give Mary a hug today!
-------------
mikeg,
neo can't be an American for being a partisan. His lapdog, Dan, reminds me of Ed MacMahon on Johnny Carson, giving neo an "attaboy" at just the right time. Neo never offers any proof of his far fetched opinions, just extremist
blogs----generally from separatist websites, that echo his myopic, uneducated posts. Between the two of them, neo is the 'hardened' angry white male and the other fellow doesn't read and just isn't very smart. Takes all kinds!

Hi

"Americans die younger than citizens of Cuba, Costa Rica and Slovenia,.."

Life expectancy in 2000

United States 77.1

Slovenia 74.9

Cuba 76.2

http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa042000b.htm

I agree with much of Dr. Talbot's letter. Health insurance is my largest expense after #1 (by far: taxes) and #2; mortgage. Dr. Talbot doesn't mention what kind of reform he proposes, just the fact all of us know that health care is expensive.

Ok now let's see which line everyone would get into?

You are suffering from cancer or need heart surgery.

Line #1 - opts for Moses Cone, Duke, Baptist, UNC-CH or any other number of hospitals around here.

Line #2 - opts for Havana.

How many takers for #2? Be honest now.

Danny,
You, once again, miss the entire point of the letter.
Hint: Read quote from Mandela at the end of Dave's letter.

-------------
Arrogance ended the Roman empire and arrogance, like Danny's (above) will end the United States reign.

We do not ALWAYS get it right.

We do not ALWAYS have the best system.

We CAN learn from our mistakes.

We CAN learn from other countries and their mistakes.

The naysayers, like Dan, neo etc., offer no hope for tomorrow just re-heated jargon, slogans and partisan hype.
The crescendo of the letter leads up to Mandela's quote---“It always seems impossible until it is done.”

`

Dear Doctor, we have antional health care, it's called Medicare, and it's going to bankrupt the country long before Social Security does. If you are on Medicare, and are fortunate enough to find a doctor who will take new Medicare patients you will find it necesary to buy an expensive, to very expensive (depending on your age, and health situation) Medicare supplement tp cover the many items not covered by Medicare. You'll also need to pruchase a prescription drug plan, under the same parameters as your supplement. Then worst of all, you'll have to deal with the massive governemnt bureaucracy rather than simply paying your $20 co-pay and saying, "thanks Doc, see you next time!

Oh, I happen to sell Medicare Supplement insurance! And could someone please send me a list of those 46 million uninsured folks, and the reason for their status, such as the number of young males who have no intention of spending a penny out ot their checks for something they think they'll never use, or folks who haven't met the employer waiting period to be put on the insurance, or those on Medicaid or similar government programs.

Finally, are any of you folks aware of the massive taxes in Sweden, England, Canada? There you pay those taxes whether or not you ever use the medical system!

I also liked LTE letter. I thought it was well reasoned although badly researched. (I can't find any data showing that Cuba/Slovenia have a higher average life expectancy, but, giving LTE writer a benefit of the doubt, perhaps he/she was looking at some other metric). Nevertheless, the failures of our health care system are becoming more obvious every day. I refer you to the NY-times article last week about the falling life expectancy of women in the South. I believe this is the first time any individualized nation in the West has experienced a drop rather than a rise in life expectancies. Also, because the US has huge income disparities, it is not very helpful to average any health care statistics. According to that article, professional women in New Jersey live, on average, to their 90s, whereas some women in South-Eastern Virginia have a life expectancy of 60. Once you throw the race into the equation, the contrasts are even greater. I think the bottom line is that health care reform will help some and will hurt others. I think qualify of health-care for the wealthy and well-insured will decline and the qualify of health-care for the poor and those who lack insurance, will obviously rise. I am sure some people would view it as state imposed socialism, but I think it is simply a reflection of reality. No health-care system is sustainable when it fails to serve 15% of its population.

This is not a socialist issue. This is a capitalist issue. It is a BIG money issue for all of us. Preventative care can save billions- maybe even trillions- in taxpayer dollars and worker productivity, but far too many can't afford to get regular medical and dental attention. So what happens? They develop serious health issues- many of them preventable- that all of us end up paying for.

The loss of worker productivity alone is almost incalculable. What does that mean to you? A double tax whammy: losses aren't just untaxable, they're deductible.

Side note: I have friends who are pharmaceutical reps. One of them has a $2500 a month entertainment budget she HAS to spend. If she doesn't treat docs and their staffs to breakfast, lunch and dinner, she has to answer for it.

Another told me of an elderly man who walked into one of her pharmacies with several prescriptions and had to decide- on the spot- which he could and couldn't live without because he couldn't afford all of them.

You can have compassion for him or you can have cash for him. Because if he's hospitalized, you're going to pay for his care.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of crass.

Since Demon Deacon isn't arrogant (yeah right) I'll put him in for Line #2. Sorry pal call it arrogant if you want, but I'll take the health care we have over some two bit dictatorship any day.

As Tonymo mentioned some countries offer womb to tomb healthcare in return for much larger taxation.

CT, look at the link I provided about Cuba & Slovenia.

Prag, as I do a lot of work in clinics I'm get to partake in many of those free lunches offered courtesy of the pharma reps. Yes there is a lot of waste in the system.

As Demon Deacon falsely infers, I never stated our system is always the best, but Dr. Talbot's comparing it to Cuba or Slovenia is rather dubious.

Anybody read the plans our three candidates have?

Anyway.

"Lack of health 'insurance' does NOT = lack of health 'care' as the socialists and their mouthpieces in the liberal press would have us believe."

Neo's right, these uninsured get their health care at the last minute in emergency rooms across the nation. Then, when they can't pay, the cost is passed along to those who have insurance by raising premiums, co-pays, deductibles, and denying coverage.

rahrah,

I like that last sentence. It's very true. I have a friend who has severe pain every moment of every day.

She works full time but has no health insurance. She's a "temp" who has worked for the same company for 3 years but no health insurance.

And she can't afford any, either.

The doctors who can do the operation want payment upfront. Her only option will probably be the emergency treatment you mentioned.

I don't believe government ran ANYTHING is the most efficient way of doing things and therefore, do not support government ran healthcare.

However, I do believe we can do better. I don't like any of the candidates ideas all that much because they all seem to be too interested in growing our government. But something does need to be done.

Let me expand just a little bit. Both Hillary and Barack want more government control over "private" health care but a big public health care system (like medicare).

I like McCain's ideas better as far as continuing allowing "private" insurers to compete and giving taxpayers incentives to plan and save for their insurance so that they can better afford to have it.
However, I question what he plans to do with folks who still can't afford health care.

Finally, I doubt his "straight-talk" is sincere.

mikey, yes, I have presented a plan... guaranteed to preserve our high quality of health care and reduce the cost substantially....sorry you missed that.

On second thought, it never involved someone else paying the insurance premiums of your employees, so you probably wouldn't have liked it anyway.

"all you ever do is call people names"...

Names like..."neodumb"?

"All you do,however, is bash those that you don't agree with"...

Bash those I disagree with like:

"neodumb is too stupid to realize"...

You mean bashing people like that, mikey?

neo did present a plan last week in 'Socialized Medicine Would Be A Disaster,' I believe.

It called for a free market driven insurance environment where only 'major medical procedures' were covered.

Personally, I thought it had some gaping holes, but it was obviously something that required some logic and thought. So, anyway, I'll never call neo dumb...misguided maybe, but I'm sure he'd say the same about me.

Well here's a Neo ... "mis-guide"

red baiting with “ …how fitting that Daschle closed with a quote from an avowed communist .."

... about a man who unlike most, dedicated his life - including 27 years in prison - on a clearly just cause, and who was then honored by the world for his undisputedly good things.

“As Tonymo mentioned some countries offer womb to tomb healthcare in return for much larger taxation.”

What Tony Baloney didn’t mentioned is there are also countries that offer womb to tomb healthcare at half the expense we pay here in the USA.

“I don't believe government run ANYTHING is the most efficient way of doing things …”

Ernestine – I’m a broken record on this, but here comes the 33-1/3rd skip:

Medicare / Medicaid charges about 10% for administration fees, typical insurance is 30%. Medicare / Medicaid balks at potential over-charge and it is “Government Inefficiency”. The insurance provider does the same thing and it is called “Reasonable expenditures”

Another skipping record:

Social Security charges about 1-1/2% for administration fees, typical IRA’s charge 2-3%. The only reason Social Security is broke is because Congress routinely raids the surplus – Bid daddy steals from the piggy bank and little Susan the saving child ends up with nothing.

==

Imho – Pragmatic has it exactly correct: We should be doing all the Preventative care we can … examples would include prenatal care and early detection procedures including regular medical and dental attention.

We also need to have a serious discussion about extraordinary procedures for the already almost dead – Terry Schaivo being the poster child .. ever see the results from here Autopsy?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/Schiavo_catscan.jpg
Meanwhile .. how much was spent ??

My mom was the same way: $4000 / week medicines in a futile attempt. She know she was going to die in a few months and was generally cool with that .. but heck the medicine was free and the Dr. suggested it. She was not one to argue with a Dr.’s recommendation.

Put away your npr kool-ade JDR.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcOXqFQw2hc

Hey Dan,

In your hypothetical where I actually have the option to go to Havana, did I already have health insurance? How far along is my cancer?

If its far enough, I might just go for Cuba and smoke myself to death anyway.

And come on Neo, bhulu doesn't mean all white people...just ones of Dutch descent who colonized Africa. So you're safe...unless you're shipping that trailer of yours to the Johannesburg.

Uhhh, lesse rahrah, you have six months to live and nothing can cure you. Kinda like my favorite aunt who died of pancreatic cancer, that's a death sentence.

If I were in that condition perhaps I'd suggest you go to Puerto Rico or similar instead of Cuba. Still beautiful beaches sans Communism.

And, and, and, best of all, you can visit nearby islands and buy Cuban cigars to accompany your Puerto Rican rum. Not to mention Puerto Rican women are beautiful. Sounds like a good ending to me.

JDR, perhaps the womb to tomb countries can do at half expense as you say, then why do they have such prohibitive tax rates? Why did a 20 oz. Diet Coke cost me 5 bucks in Norway?

Andddd Dan, get some more recent data, 8 years is a more than a third of my life.

http://www.who.int/whosis/database/core/core_select.cfm?strISO3_select=AFG,ALB,DZA,AND,AGO,ATG,ARG,ARM,AUS,AUT,AZE,BHS,BHR,BGD,BRB,BLR,BEL,BLZ,BEN,BTN,BOL,BIH,BWA,BRA,BRN,BGR,BFA,BDI,KHM,CMR,CAN,CPV,CAF,TCD,CHL,CHN,COL,COM,COG,COK,CRI,CIV,HRV,CUB,CYP,CZE,PRK,COD,DNK,DJI,DMA,DOM,ECU,EGY,SLV,GNQ,ERI,EST,ETH,FJI,FIN,FRA,GAB,GMB,GEO,DEU,GHA,GRC,GRD,GTM,GIN,GNB,GUY,HTI,HND,HUN,ISL,IND,IDN,IRN,IRQ,IRL,ISR,ITA,JAM,JPN,JOR,KAZ,KEN,KIR,KWT,KGZ,LAO,LVA,LBN,LSO,LBR,LBY,LTU,LUX,MDG,MWI,MYS,MDV,MLI,MLT,MHL,MRT,MUS,MEX,FSM,MCO,MNG,MNT,MAR,MOZ,MMR,NAM,NRU,NPL,NLD,NZL,NIC,NER,NGA,NIU,NOR,OMN,PAK,PLW,PAN,PNG,PRY,PER,PHL,POL,PRT,QAT,KOR,MDA,ROU,RUS,RWA,KNA,LCA,VCT,WSM,SMR,STP,SAU,SEN,SRB,SYC,SLE,SGP,SVK,SVN,SLB,SOM,ZAF,ESP,LKA,SDN,SUR,SWZ,SWE,CHE,SYR,TJK,THA,SCG,MKD,TLS,TGO,TON,TTO,TUN,TUR,TKM,TUV,UGA,UKR,ARE,GBR,TZA,USA,URY,UZB,VUT,VEN,VNM,YEM,ZMB,ZWE&strIndicator_select=HALE0Male,HALE0Female&intYear_select=latest&language=english

Granted, the trends havent changed in those two countries with relationship to ours, except in Slovenia women survive one year longer than American women, and men one year less.

So, what I'm getting at is, let's ship all the ladies Slovenia.

JDR,
neo calling Mandela a communist shouldn't surprise anyone.
People who dedicate themselves to making the world better, do not interest such a selfish, self absorbed soul like neocon. The only thing smaller than his brain is his capacity for compassion. He's rarely right, but never in doubt.

Ha! Ha! Ha! I just went to another letter where neocon called FDR a "communist"! Yep, Nelson Mandela, Franklin Roosevelt and God knows who else will be thrown in that ignorant fellow's catch basin. He's probably gonna throw Mother Teresa in there!

I get the biggest kick out seeing ignorant people parade their wares--that's why neo and Danny keep me in stitches! As George Clooney said in "Oh Brother, Where Art Thou"--'You guys are dumber than a bag of hammers'!

I must have looked up something different rahrah. On your link Cuba and the US are tied at 75 and Slovenia is a near third at 74. Bravo for them.

My knowledge of Slovenia is rather limited, but I looked it up and their estimated 2008 population (using more current figures just for you) is 2,023,358 according to Wiki.

Cuba rings in at 11,394,043. That's a 2007 estimate, sorry to use something such archaic data, that's 1/24th of your life after all.

So the good doctor compares the very diverse US population of over 300 million to a country with a homogenous population (83% Slovene) that measures only 1/3 the population of North Carolina? Sound like a comparable measure to you?

I'm with you anyway, ship our women to Slovenia and us guys will go to Cuba and smoke some good cigars.

Just thought you guys might like to know....

I've met Bill and Hillary now. Bill's got softer hands...like pillows...or BILLows? I don't know.

Now I just gotta see Obama and McCain, although I doubt John will come here anytime soon (or at all) unless its one of those 1000 dollar a plate deals. If thats the case, anybody want to sponsor me?

Do I need a passport for Puerto Rico?

Careful about defending Mother Teresa Demon Deacon, she was a Catholic after all. Some of your crown jewel posts regard Catholics and are of course in permanent storage. They are definitely dumber than a bag of hammers as are many others saved in the archive. Please keep posting, I need more material. Perhaps I'll write a book some day about use them for humor.

For good sake I'll replay just one jewel:

Joke for Today: Heard Dan's Priest goes both ways---men and small boys!
THE LIBERAL CONSERVATIVE June 16, 2007 6:18 PM

Of course Bill has softer hands, he's been touching on softer bodies! :)

No passport for PR, its a US territory. Just learn some Spanish and expect crazy drivers passing on sidewalks at stoplights.

On the first trip I told the car rental agent that my car had a big dent in the front fender. He said "So what?" they all have dents!

Go there sometime, it's an interesting place.

At least a bag of hammers are smart enough to travel in groups.

Neo - I don't know that much about the history of South Africa, nor the culture, but I do know apartheid was very ugly, and very brutal ... and when that video was made - in 1992 - it was still boiling hard.

.. maybe I missed you point - were you whining he was a commie or a honkie-murderer?

JDR, perhaps the womb to tomb countries can do at half expense as you say, then why do they have such prohibitive tax rates?

Looks like Japan has rates comparable to the USA.

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2206.html

Why did a 20 oz. Diet Coke cost me 5 bucks in Norway?

"Norwegian products are primarily expensive for foreigners. For Norwegians, they are cheap in terms of working hours, and compared to what foreigners have to pay in working hours for similar products in their native country".

http://www.ssb.no/english/magazine/art-2005-02-01-03-en.html

"Norway has obtained one of the highest standards of living in the world ... Norway also has a very low unemployment rate, currently below 2% (June 2007). The hourly productivity levels, as well as average hourly wages in Norway are among the highest in the world."

http://search.live.com/results.aspx?srch=106&FORM=AS6&q=why+is+norway+so+expensive

rahrah:

http://www.exploremccain.com/ste/EventDetail.aspx?guid=0cf0dc07-fe4b-4e6f-be32-b9db312fb2f5

May 6th.

"were you whining he was a commie or a honkie-murderer?"

Both.

Without getting into a full blown pissin' contest about Mandella, consider this:

Nelson and Winnie Mandela were (before he dumped her because she became a political liability) an African version of Bill and Hillary Clinton. Mandela is always critical of the democratic countries of the west, but has nothing but praise for the remaining communist and Muslim dictatorships of the world. He is supposedly a “champion of freedom and democracy”, the “hero of oppressed people everywhere” but considers dictatorships like Cuba and Libya shining beacons of freedom and justice...”

And this:
In the first year after Mandela became president, reported crimes increased in some areas and categories by as much as 75 percent.
In 1997, there were 24,588 murders, 52,160 cases of rape, 249,375 home burglaries and 13,011 carjackings.
Statistics now show that in this country of 43 million people there is a murder or attempted murder every 12 minutes, and a rape every 26 seconds.
More than 230 policemen were killed in 1998; by early May of 1999, 77 more had been killed...

Great job, Nelson!

He is the darling of the American left who never met a communist they didn't like...and now we have Tom Daschle and the medical director of 'HealthServe Community Health Clinic' placing him still further upon the pedestal because they have wet dreams of turning the American health care industry into a government monopoly. Aided by a compliant media and public education system who have brainwashed many Americans into believing that the proper function of government is to take care of them.

" ... before he dumped her because she became a political liability .. "

I recall hearing her speak one time .. and thought she was really weird.

==

"Mandela is always critical of the democratic countries of the west, but has nothing but praise for the remaining communist and Muslim dictatorships of the world."

Well the democratic countries of the west let him rot in jail for 27 years - while the communists gave him support to overthrowing a real ugly. What would you have done, Neo?"

"There will always be those who say that the Communists were using us. But who is to say that we were not using them?" Comrade Mandela

==

In the first year after we freed Iraq, reported crimes increased in ALL areas and categories by as much as (insert big number here). Maybe it's a similar situation -

Now the rape stat' is an interesting thing - that number is high because it was believed by many - incredible as this sounds - that the cure for AIDS was to have sex with a virgin ..

So here's an idea - let's not educate folks about the cause of aids ... and let's not distribute condoms .. let's instead send missionaries to preach abstinence is the best policy, 'cause that the vote-Republican position and we would not want to alienate America's Christian right by offering non-ideologue solutions! As you and I were abstinent young men, let them follow in our footsteps!

Iraq?... AIDS?... abstinence?...

I'm off to produce.

Every letter in today's print N&R is election related, the N&R censures election letters on the blog, so no new topics. Carry on.

"So here's an idea - let's not educate folks about the cause of aids ... and let's not distribute condoms .. let's instead send missionaries to preach abstinence is the best policy, 'cause that the 'vote-Republican' position and we would not want to alienate America's Christian right by offering non-ideologue solutions! As you and I were abstinent young men, let them follow in our footsteps!"

Bravo James! Bravo!
But to be fair, it is not just a Republican thing, it is the Catholic Church's official policy! Keeping the folks down, after all, has worked for them for a long, long, time. Of course they do share that with the Republicans. :)

HIV was introduced in Africa by the US govt. to kill black people, just as the US govt. did in domestically. Ask Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

I understand BDS blinds sufferers to ANYTHING positive about Bush, but even sensible libs realize Bush has made positive efforts in programs to help people in Africa including combating AIDS.

"The U.S. is on track to increase total assistance to Africa to $8.7 billion by 2010, double the level of assistance in 2004."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/africa/

Dan's right.

Africa LOVES George Bush. Anybody see some of the video from his visit a month or two ago? They had huge pictures of him and American flags and there were even ladies wearing skirts adorned with his face!

But, like John Oliver from the Daily Show with Jon Stewart, it saddens me that Bush HAS the ability to do good (as seen in Africa), but CHOSE NOT to do it here in the good ol' USofA.

Hey Dan, I'm not a subscriber to the print N&R, mind telling me what a few of those election related LTE's have been about the past two or three days?