News-Record.com

"We have plenty of oil and gas resources within our sovereign boundaries ... "

Define plenty. 10 years worth? 100 years worth? Clearly not forever. What happens after 10 years .. when replacement technologies will just begin to emerge? What happens after 100 years .. then we'll wish we still had oil for the process' of which there will be no substitute .. when the remaining juice, which the USA will then have none of .. really will be black gold, at $1000 / oz.

"We are not allowed to drill ... "

Maybe. Maybe there's a bit of too little, too expensive and too unknown in the generic ANWR / Outer Continental Shelf / Bakken Formation examples. Maybe there's some industry BS going on too .. as I recall the original Alaska oil was to last a zillion years.

"We are dependent upon foreign countries .. "

Only because we piss away more than we produce locally. See below.

"If we produced a larger portion of our own oil and gas, we would have much more economic freedom ... "

Maybe. One gets the same results at lower cost by simply consuming less. See below.

The Below .. and as real as anything:

I'm working on a project to extract waste heat and put it to good use (shutting down a neat generator). The particular project is with American made machines but the manufacture will not "support" adding the needed accessories. At least two "European" made machines offer this feature as a standard option, and they routinely support the retrofit, even selling the needed accessories.

Point: The culture of America is to live large, pissing away in the belief that everything is infinine. This is why I will not support drilling America like it was swiss chess.

Why does no one speak of the oil refinery situation? The lack of same helps to cause problems in the local tanks of one's gas station. JDR, any comments on this matter or should I say lack of said refineries?

Shalom

"as I recall the original Alaska oil was to last a zillion years. "

That's not true. It was a HALF a zillion years.

I read the article about state's dealing with fuel for school buses. Pure speculation but I'm betting that if a federal law was passed that abolished bussing students past a school close to their home for "diversity", diesel prices would go down.

You have a valid point, Darryl. I remember well gas prices soaring when Katrina came thru and crippled the refinery there. (Glad to have your input again.)

James is on spot with his assessment re our greed and unwillingness to make the concessions to reduce our dependence on oil. We, as a nation, look everywhere else for someone to blame rather than ourselves. We want what we want and to hell with the consequences.

I remember most of the people who post here all but ridiculed me a several years ago when I stated I kept my thermostat on 65 in the winter and 72 in the summer. At these settings I was not comfortable, and in fact had to wear a sweater (sometimes light gloves) during winter months and a sleeveless tee shirt and shorts in the summer months.

I had started figuring out how to conserve and do my part for the preservation of our planet. I was part of the gas lines and odd/even days. With three kids, active boys, in the car with me, those three hour waits to buy gas were not "pleasant" times, especially when the it was 100 degrees and no air conditioning. But it worked when we needed it to.

We could do it again. Over half the parents with school age kids take those kids to school or provide the older ones with cars to drive themselves. Simply letting those kids ride the bus provided by the government would clear traffic jams (saving gas), save time, teach independence, responsibility and self-reliance while saving tons of gas. Or let the pampered, overweight darlings walk if they live within walking distance.

Let them open school windows and house windows during spring and fall. I went thru twelve years of non-air conditioned schools without suffering any permanent damage.

Check with family and friends when you must make a trip to the mall or grocery store. Combine errands and shopping with work schedules. You may have to get up a little earlier but it is within your power to do so. Visit places closer to home and learn more about your surroundings. Stop pampering yourself and your kids. It seems to be an unquestioned "right of passage" for kids to get cars when they turn 16, like they somehow deserve it just by turning 16.

All big changes usually start with little changes. If several million people are practicing energy-saving techniques, it has to add up to large energy savings. However, it is not going to work if the energy I save is selfishly consumed by people who feel as if their lot in life is only to take what they want.

BTW, Rick, your $3.48 half gallon of milk is directly related to the $4,25-5.00 dollar diesel that goes into the truck that delivers that milk. As I said yesterday, everything is relative.

Yvonne, you need to watch some business shows. We have used much less oil over the last tweleve months. It doesn't matter, because in the next 20-30 years China will use all the oil produced today.

Unless you want to go back to the stone age, we'd better retrieve the massive amounts of oil and gas on or under our own lands.

When we wanted to explore at Prudhoe Bay in the 1970's the environmental Fascists told us we would destroy the environment, destroy the caribou, and would get oil for 6 months. Well the environment has not been destroyed, the caribou has quintupled, and we're still getting oil, though most of it goes to Japan.

Now the same Fascists, including the ones in the senate, are saying the same thing about ANWAR. Most people don't understand that we're talking about 2000 acres of the 19 MILLION acres that exist there, and thos 2000 acres are desolate for most of the year!

A few years ago an Interior Dept employee showed films of the proposed site and the Demo-Rats went nuts because it looked like the surface of the moon. The Dems tried to take the case to court saying that government agencies couldn't "advertise or promote" commercial activities.

Speaking of China, I saw an ad from the American Red Cross asking for donations for dealing with the tragedy there.

It is a tragedy and the devastation is heartbreaking.

However, does China really need our money?

Oil companies stand to make more money if supplies of gas are tight, but speculators trying to make a buck are a primary reason behind price increases. It's simple Supply and demand.

In regards to refineries: They're wildly expensive to build, and it's far more cost effective to maximize existing facilities than to build new ones, which is why refining capacity in the US is growing even as the number of refineries falls. Look it up.

In regard to ANWAR, why not start with North Dakota's Bakken Shale?
http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/topstocks/archive/2008/04/10/north-dakota-oil-discovery-called-biggest-in-u-s.aspx

Darryl said:
"Why does no one speak of the oil refinery situation? The lack of same helps to cause problems in the local tanks of one's gas station. JDR, any comments on this matter or should I say lack of said refineries?"

I don't understand this. I haven't heard any report of the oil companies having more oil than they are able to refine. To my knowledge, we are not sending oil abroad to be refined, then importing the gasoline back.

Darryl, could you provide more detail here? Are you saying that if the oil companies had more refining capacity, they would increase the gasoline supply, and thereby reduce the price?

Tonymo,

Don't have the time to watch a lot of TV. Do listen to a lot of NPR while I am working though.

You have made my point very well. Rather than encouraging people to conserve, you simply make the same mistake as the other "conservatives" who throw abandon to the wind and try to figure out how to get more of what you want. Not "How can I save so what I have will last longer?" but "Where can I get more and more and more?"

People are NOT using "much less oil over the last tweleve months." At least, not many people I know. Most of my friends, family and acquaintances provide a typical cross-section of Americans. They have altered their habits very little, then whine about everything being so high. They work hard, play hard, still smoke their smokes, drink their beer/wine, go out to eat, drive 70 in a 55 mph speed zone and go shopping.

Until the majority of the population get serious about conservation, they will keep digging themselves deeper in that hole of dependency.

Earnestine,

Interesting take on that request from the RC. But I think you have a valid question. My take on it is, would the people ever get the money if we sent it?

“Why does no one speak of the oil refinery situation”?

As one who has actually been in an oil refinery, I should know more, but really don’t.
I do have an opinion, however, and apparently that’s all one needs to be a pundit.

FACT: Oil refineries are impressive places .. very high temperatures and very high pressures with highly volatile process' make them both particularly dangerous and expensive to run, regardless of where they are located (and I’ve been in them on both the Gulf Coast as well as in the North East). It is truly remarkable and a testament to good engineering and management that there are not many more disasters. Oil refineries are also really funky dirty stinky.

OPINION: I have no idea the comparative cost of transporting crude vs. refined goods, but sense that cost of individually transporting the markets like asphalt and jet fuel and diesel would offset the savings achieved locating these plants off shore - where regulations are more lax, where g-men inspectors can be paid off easier, and where labor rates are lower. Therefore, I assume it’s close to a financial wash. That said, If I were Exxon, I would argue the USA’s environment laws make it very expensive to operate here and I would argue for a reduction in these requirements. This would lower my massive capital investment requirements as well as divert criticism from the reality that it’s a nasty business to the fantasy that it’s someone else fault .. but hey, for a few billion in tax advantages and environmental law relaxation Exxon will see what they can do to help America ....

I think Kornbluth hit it - it's a ruse.

Tony Baloney:

“we're talking about 2000 acres of the 19 MILLION acres that exist there”

“While the effects of the oil fields in Prudhoe Bay are estimated to extend over an area of 12,000 acres, the actual footprint of production covers over 640,000 acres.”

http://www.columbia.edu/~sp2023/scienceandsociety/web-pages/oildevelopment.html

==

“ … the caribou has quintupled .. “

Maybe .. it depends on which specific herds you are talking about – some are up

http://hunt.alaska.gov/pubs/techpubs/mgt_rpts/mca01mt_western.pdf

… some are down

https://secure.wildlife.alaska.gov/pubs/techpubs/mgt_rpts/mca01-2mt_south.pdf

… some are up / down / stable

http://www.wildlifenews.alaska.gov/pubs/techpubs/mgt_rpts/ca03mt-north.pdf

I found none that “quintupled” .. I eagerly await your proof.

>>>y .. AW .. nnn ..

hard staying awake waiting for Tony Baloney's proof.

When the environmentalists finally catch on the fact that Maxine Waters and the liberals in congress cannot cajole with stumbling blather or tax the oil companies into lowering the price of gas, and it hits 8-10 bucks a gallon, I predict we'll see a lot of 'Greenies' and animal rights wackos reevaluate their principles and demand anwr be poked full of holes and to hell with the caribou or anything else that gets in the path of the rig.