News-Record.com

"one can only assume Will’s remarks are racist."

Only if one is a left wing nut burdened by white guilt or still harbors the plantation mentality who turns over ever leaf and looks under every rock for something to be offended over.

I've never heard George Will declare that AIDS was invented and introduced to the white homosexual population by the congressional black caucus, or lunatic rants about the United 'Black Panthers' States of America.

Despite their best efforts, (Hussein has now told about 4 different versions of his story concerning his relationship with his mentor, trying to make him disappear) uncle Jeremiah ain't going away. So the liberals tag anyone who brings up his name as (OMG!) 'racist'. But I suppose that's all they have.

The race card is alive and well but a rather poor use of it James. Also, thanks for educating the public that Wright and especially Obama are "persons of color", some may have been unaware.

Obama had a close 20 yr. relationship with a 'mentoring' individual who espouses radical views about his country and racist views regarding white people. It didn't necessarily have to be a relationship with a pastor, it could have been a professor, politician, spouse, etc. So your religious test doesn't fly.

Obama first denied he had ever heard any of this garbage in 20 years. Yeah right. Then he disdained the words but not the person. Still didn't work. Then he finally tossed this guy under the bus this week, after Wright's weekend 'speeches' left him no choice politcally.

If Hillary or McCain had similar close relationships with radicals, then Will and others should "take issue" as well. Imagine, and this is simply an example, if Hillary Clinton had a 20 yr. mentoring relationship with Ward Churchill. Ditto McCain with David Duke. Just examples. Those would require close scrutiny. Put away the race card James.

Some try to compare Obama/Wright to James Hege's endorsement of McCain. True this Hege guy is a nut but McCain didn't have a close 20 year mentoring relationship with him.

Unwarranted use of the race card serves nothing. Sadly it is used often, even on this blog.

Another one trick pony.
Any time a liberal fascist is unable to enter into intellectual discourse, they will go for the smear.
Mr. Lamarr obviously knows nothing about George Will, so his assumptions have triggered the "Law of Assumptives".
Mr. Lamarr is not me, so you know what equine critter he is.

Dan said Wright has "racist views regarding white people." I've looked at TUCC's website and I'll pose the question to you yet once again. What racist views of whites has Wright espoused?

Also, from time to time, you've brought up Bill Cosby and one would assume that he passes your "safe Black" standard. This is a quote from Mrs. Cosby. “All African-Americans, regardless of their educational and economic accomplishments, have been and are at risk in America simply because of their skin colors. Most people know that facing the truth brings about healing and growth. When is America going to face its historical and current racial realities so it can be what it says it is?”

Her words are less than graphic than Wright's; but, at the core, Wright and Mrs. Cosby are both saying the same thing.

If I remember correctly Barry Obama had a white mother. So if he is half black why is he the black candidate? If he is half white why isn't he the white candidate? On second thought Barry, stay black.

Conundrum, I provided a youtube link the last time you asked this question. Just Google youtube wright hillary for one of the better ones.

I've never referenced Mrs. Cosby, just Mr. Cosby. They are two different people. Do you agree with her statement? If so please tell me how all black Americans are at risk in America simply because of their skin colors. What kind of risk? That's a damn broad statement. Details please.

Dan, I do agree with Mrs. Cosby's statement. You have to remember that her son, a multimillionaire through inheritance, was shot dead along a California highway, by an European immigrant who expressed his hate of n*ggers. So, even a black with means, is not shielded from racism. Do you remember Oprah's attempt at buying a Hermes bag in Paris or Judge Thomas' fallback on his "high tech lynching." Slavery was predicated on black lives being less valuable than whites. More recently, you had a 23 yr. old black male in NY who was shot 19 times by the city's finest. One officer emptied his clip, reloaded and kept firing.

My words will never be as graphic as Rev. Wright's. But, there are two sets of rules in this country.

So now George Will joins Geraldine Ferraro in the "racist" camp by another Obuma supporter. These people would vote for O.J if he were in the case, and would calls those who not vote for him "racists!"

Anyone with a single living brain cell who has seen, and heard Wrights remarks and attempts to defend them, or Obuma's continued relationship with the truly racist, anti-American hate monger must be in agreement with Wright's remarks. Obuma says he never heard them, but his wife obviously has!

Conundrum,
You might as well pack it in. Trying to reason with someone incapable of reason is one of the definitions of insanity--that makes you and I both insane! It goes beyond explanation, and I think to the core roots and values of the ones you and I have addressed regualarly. There was a poll of GOP crossover voters in the deep South and guess what? Surprise! They were all for Hillary.
My firm belief is that if one were to talk directly to neocon, he would come right out and say he did not like people of color and even sling a few epithets. He certainly has alluded to that on many threads and has been called on it. Dan, is another story. Like many, Dan cannot think of himself as a racist even though his entire belief system supports it. He embraces anything that will help him justify his position, and one such example is the Bill Cosby reference. It goes back to a favorite right wing email that circulates where Cosby attacks some of the traits of today's African American youth. That gives Dan and others cover and a reason to not explore anything below the surface of their already held beliefs. (Note how Dan quickly folded his tent at the Mrs. Cosby quotes)
Another example is the fixation on Reverend Wright's comments, NOT for what they say, but for how they can damage the first truly potential African American President. Dan definitely does not want to debate this on an intellectual basis, as he knows he has no arrows in his quiver for that. Instead, it is a focus on "God D-mn America" for him.
While some of Reverend Wright's comments were over the top, and narcissistic, what he has said about race is right on the money.

To Joker/Keith Goodman:
In this country, a person's race is that of the father. I'm not debating whether that is right or wrong, but you can ask some of your bi-racial friends.
Ooops! What was I thinking! I guess you'll just have to take others words for it.

~

"... one can only assume Will’s remarks are racist."

You may make whatever assumptions you like, Mr. Lamar. That is up to you.

The one thing about your euphemistic blathering that is clear to me is that YOU, sir, are certainly exhibiting latent racist tendencies. When you throw the race card, odds are pretty strong that you know well how to play the game.

~

Dan says to Conundrum,

"If so please tell me how all black Americans are at risk in America simply because of their skin colors."

That pretty much defines your own racism Dan. To a "T".

***************
Dan says,
"Some try to compare Obama/Wright to James Hege's endorsement of McCain."

Yes, Dan. And rightfully so.

First this:
A Feb. 28 endorsement by right-wing religious television personality John Hagee has earned Republican presidential hopeful John McCain renewed criticism from both the left and right for appearing to embrace the sharply bigoted positions Hagee has staked out over the years. McCain won the endorsement after weeks of soliciting the hardline minister's backing.

Indeed, in Republican circles, the Hagee endorsement was seen as something of a coup for McCain and a significant step toward locking up the nomination over rival Mike Huckabee who is widely regarded as the "Christian fundamentalist" candidate."

On the same day he welcomed Hagee's endorsement John McCain waffled saying he doesn't have to agree with the people who endorse him. McCain appeared at a press conference with Hagee, smiling and embracing the controversial minister. And the next day, Feb. 29, John McCain again expressed pleasure at receiving Hagee's backing.

And then this:

According to some media accounts, Hagee's endorsement of John McCain isn't sitting well with some in the far right community, however. Right-wing head of the Catholic League, William Donohue, lambasted Hagee for his frequent denunciations of the Catholic Church as "the great whore of Babylon" and "a cult." Donohue described Hagee as having "waged unrelenting war against the Catholic church." He called on McCain to reject the prized endorsement.

Donahue failed to criticize Hagee's xenophobic and homophobic positions or his religious intolerance of Islam, however. Donahue has frequently made comments that suggest he shares Hagee's penchant for intolerance and hate if not all of his views. For example, in 2004, Donohue defended Mel Gibson's controversial movie "The Passion of the Christ" on an MSNBC talk show by saying, "Hollywood is controlled by secular Jews who hate Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular. It‘s not a secret, OK? And I‘m not afraid to say it. That‘s why they hate this movie."

So Dan. Why is it that you can attack Reverend Wright's remarks but you just can't seem to grasp your own beloved GOP and Catholic church's overt racism?
McCain has not distanced himself from Hagee. McCain has not rebuked Hagee's endorsement.

Too funny. Actually it is sad.

I was WRONG! McCain DID rebuke Pastor Hagee.......he really did....he did, but maybe....just maybe...oops!
But within 30 seconds was right back in there with him!

Last February, hard-line conservative evangelical Pastor John Hagee endorsed Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) candidacy for president. Despite Hagee’s history of controversial and bigoted comments –- such as calling Catholicism “The Great Whore” and blaming Hurricane Katrina on gays –- McCain said he was “very honored” to receive the endorsement, one which he also reportedly sought.

McCain has since both “repudiate[d]” and defended Hagee’s intolerant remarks. But McCain’s double-talk on Hagee went a step further yesterday on ABC’s This Week when he seemed a bit confused as to whether or not he still accepts Hagee’s endorsement –- first agreeing that it was a “mistake” to accept it, but less than 30 seconds later saying he is “glad” to have it:

STEPHANOPOULOS: So was it a mistake to solicit and accept his endorsement?

MCCAIN: Oh, probably, sure. […]

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you no longer want his endorsement?

MCCAIN: I’m glad to have his endorsement. I condemn remarks that are, in any way, viewed as anti-anything. And thanks for asking.

Indeed, McCain has been confused quite a bit lately on a wide range of issues:

– McCain has said waterboarding “should never be condoned in the U.S.” but voted against a bill banning the CIA from using torture, specifically including waterboarding.

– McCain says he is “a consistent supporter of educational benefits” for the military but has indicated he will not support the bipartisan 21st Century GI Bill.

– On at least three occasions, McCain baselessly claimed Iran is training Al Qaeda in Iraq but argued the error was an isolated slip of the tongue.

– McCain falsely suggested that Al-Qaeda in Iraq is a “sect of Shi’ites.”

– McCain falsely claimed Moktada al-Sadr “declared the cease-fire” after recent fighting in Basra and has said he is both a “major player” in Iraq and that his influence “has been on the wane for a long time.”

– Economists and nonpartisan analysts have said recently that the numbers in McCain’s economic plan simply “don’t add up.”

– McCain has made the elimination of earmarks a cornerstone of his presidential campaign but he can’t name any he would eliminate.

– In a matter of one day, McCain said Americans are both “better off” and “not better off” than they were before President Bush took office.

McCain’s latest 30-second flip-flop represents the political dance he must engage in to try to appeal to both the conservative evangelical wing of the Republican Party and independent-minded Americans. But despite all his back and forth, the media still seem happy to promote McCain’s self-proclaimed persona as a “straight-talking maverick.”

Or just watch the video:
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/hagee-flip-flop/

Conundrum said:

"You have to remember that her son, a multimillionaire through inheritance, was shot dead along a California highway, by an European immigrant who expressed his hate of n*ggers.

"More recently, you had a 23 yr. old black male in NY who was shot 19 times by the city's finest."

How about more local and even more recently. Eve Carson was gunned down by two black men in Chapel Hill for no apparent reason. Did you see white people protesting about racism BEFORE the facts were known as black people did in the Duke Lacrosse case?

All three of these murders are tragic and senseless and I do agree with you that something wasn't right about the NYC case as revealed recently. However, anyone can be at "risk" by walking down the street, not specifically black people.

This is 11 year old data but I would suppose the trends are somewhat stable.

"Data indicate that murder is most often intra-racial among victims and offenders. In 1997, data based on incidents involving one victim and one offender show that 94 percent of the black murder victims were slain by black offenders, and 85 percent of white murder victims were killed by white offenders."

http://www.murdervictims.com/murder_statistics.htm

More recent data of a 1974-2004 study reveals the same:

"The report further noted that, "most murders are intraracial", with 86% of White murders committed by Whites, and 94% of Black murders committed by Blacks."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime

The murderer of Mrs. Cosby's son fits into the 6%, so do the monsters that dragged James Byrd to his death. They deserve to rot in jail the rest of their lives, so do the murderers of Eve Carson.

When you look at the statistics however, when 94% of black murder victims are murdered by fellow blacks, the black community might want to look inside and see why this is happening. There are few brave enough to raise this issue, white or black. I don't say ignore the 6%, but you guys seem to talk only about the 6% and sweep the other 94% under the rug.

*****************************************************
"Like many, Dan cannot think of himself as a racist even though his entire belief system supports it."

Nice rant Demon Deacon, as you are the only person on this blog who accuses me of being racist, try answering these previously posed questions. Give it a try. You will make a fool of yourself as usual.

1) Why would a racist spend 9 years mentoring a black child in the Big Brothers/Big Sisters program?

2) Why would a racist allow his children to play regularly with the black children next door?

3) Why would a racist spend thousands of dollars to visit Tanzania? Hint there are a lot of black people over there and damn did we have fun with them.

4) Why would a racist offer an interest free loan for equipment and training to allow a cash strapped black woman a chance to start her own business?

My bets are you cannot answer these questions. Just your usual bloviating about people you don't know.

Dan said "Eve Carson was gunned down by two black men in Chapel Hill for no apparent reason. Did you see white people protesting about racism BEFORE the facts were known as black people did in the Duke Lacrosse case?" Eve Carson was killed for a reason. She died because her killers wanted what she had and they did not want to work for it. So, they took her stuff and they took her life and any aspirations that she had. Maybe whites should protest in instances like this. It would certainly serve as a catalyst for conversations concerning the black on white murders. In the case of the black marchers protesting the Duke rape case, what reasonable, and I stress the word reasonable, human being would fabricate a story about being raped? I've heard that this woman has had mental issues. I pray for the child that she just had. But please remember, that countless black men were lynched because of rape charges that were fabricated. They were not lynched, but the Scottsboro Boys spent countless years in prison based upon lies told by two prostitutes. And let's not forget Emmett Till. Of course, this in no way excuses what was done to the three Duke lacrosse players.

I am not sweeping the senseless black on black killings under the rug. Whenever you have a forum (like the one that Cosby is doing) on black on black issues, there are usually two sides. Cosby's side addresses the issue. Some accuse him of airing the black community's dirty laundry. Cosby's critics accuse him of not factoring in white racism. All I know, is that regardless of the racism that I've encountered, I've never wanted to pick up a gun and kill someone who looks like me or anyone for that matter. But, my parents instilled morals, ethics and values in their children.

Conundrum,
Your efforts are noble. But I can assure you, little Dan would have to be pulled, kick and screaming, from his "comfort zone". Many times, I have referred to him as "inch deep and a mile wide" as he has only surface knowledge on most things. He proves the old saying, "you can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh_t". Facts don't matter to him and reasoning is totally out of the question. All that is left is a very empty vessel which parrots FoxNews, and conservative talk radio.

Again, I salute your efforts.

Conundrum,
Also, note the narcissism and the defensive posturing. : )

"Maybe whites should protest in instances like this. It would certainly serve as a catalyst for conversations concerning the black on white murders."

Maybe people of ALL colors should protest concerning murders of people of ALL colors.

"In the case of the black marchers protesting the Duke rape case, what reasonable, and I stress the word reasonable, human being would fabricate a story about being raped?"

I dunno, perhaps we could call Kobe Bryant and ask him.

People do all kinds of "unreasonable" things like this conundrum, particularly with athletes as they may perceive a certain payoff. That is why we have a judicial system. The Duke protesters simply made assumptions without facts and made fools of themselves.

"When is America going to face its historical and current racial realities so it can be what it says it is?”

I hear this question often and that is why I replied with the statistics. Perhaps you don't sweep it under the rug but most do. 94% of black murder victims are murdered by blacks, 94%. What does white racism have to do with that? Where is the outrage in the black community?

America has been facing it's historical racial realities for decades conundrum and the results show dramatic improvement. The fact that a black man may be our next president illustrates this. The fact that my kids play with the black kids next door and race isn't a consideration to them illustrates it as well. My 7 year old son asked me one time why people have different skin colors. I replied that that God made no two people alike, boys and girls, different heights, different features, different skin colors, different languages, etc. but we are all equally God's children. He was fine with that.

"But, my parents instilled morals, ethics and values in their children."

Great point, so did mine. Your parents obviously instilled the value of learning as you are an intelligent person based upon your posts. This has more than anything to do with how an child will behave as an adult. Not a guarantee, but definitely a strong influence.

"But I can assure you, little Dan would have to be pulled, kick and screaming, from his "comfort zone". Many times, I have referred to him as "inch deep and a mile wide" as he has only surface knowledge on most things. He proves the old saying, "you can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh_t". Facts don't matter to him and reasoning is totally out of the question. All that is left is a very empty vessel which parrots FoxNews, and conservative talk radio."

One example true discourse about race is difficult conundrum. Name calling serves nothing.

Your mom has racist overtones!

Denying racism doesn't exist is just as bad as slapping people in the face with it.

rahrah says,
"Denying racism doesn't exist, is just as bad as slapping people in the face with it."

rr,
This is the point Conundrum and I have been trying to make. If history is an indicator, it went over with Dan and Neocon like a turd in a punch bowl.

"I hear this question often and that is why I replied with the statistics. Perhaps you don't sweep it under the rug but most do. 94% of black murder victims are murdered by blacks, 94%. What does white racism have to do with that?" Dan, I was going to answer this with my own words, but, I found an answer that's 100 times better.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4627755

"Where is the outrage in the black community?" There is outrage, but, it is muted. There are several African American online groups that are raising their voices on this issue. You have to understand that the majority of of these black on black murders occur in predominantly black neighborhoods. So, the odds are that you could be marching and protesting against someone that you know. Also, you are not going to have a group ever acknowledge that a segment of its community is dysfunctional. A good example of this would be Rev. Jackson and the recent killing of schoolchildren in Chicago. Rev. Jackson's solution is to march on the gun shops. He doesn't address the behavior behind those who are pulling the triggers. Rev. Jackson has spent a lot of his post civil rights work, addressing white racism. He can't suddenly switch his focus to black behavior and away from white racism. He would lose credibility. And in too many communities, an anti -snitching mentality has been embraced. But, this anti-snitching mentality is a consequence of the relationship between blacks and the police/legal system.

"But, this anti-snitching mentality is a consequence of the relationship between blacks and the police/legal system."

This is right on target. Bull Connor et. al. Maybe even the local right wing Saint, David Wray??

Thanks conundrum, you explained it very well. I can't listen to the audio at the moment as I'm in a hotel room in Charlotte and my kids are going to sleep.

Personally I don't think Jesse Jackson is the answer in contemporary times, as he's from the same era as Rev. Wright. Granted they lived through the days of segregation, which explains their viewpoints, but hopefully you will agree relations have improved since their young days. They seem to be stuck in the 1960's as if nothing has improved since.

Tell me what you think about Obama. I was initially impressed with his eloquence, I've read most of his book The Audacity of Hope. I never planned on voting for him because of his policies, however he seemed to have an opportunity to ameliorate race relations. That opportunity has since been blown in my opinion by his relationship with Rev. Wright in my opinion.

"There are several African American online groups that are raising their voices on this issue."

Do you have links to any of these sites? I'd like to see a few.

"Tell me what you think about Obama. I was initially impressed with his eloquence, I've read most of his book The Audacity of Hope. I never planned on voting for him because of his policies, however he seemed to have an opportunity to ameliorate race relations. That opportunity has since been blown in my opinion by his relationship with Rev. Wright in my opinion. " Obama, it seems, has been a very political and calculating person. I am kind of in limbo about him. The Chicago Tribune ran an article that states that when Obama was visiting TUCC for the first time, that Rev. Wright warned him that being a member of TUCC might not be viewed as a positive thing. The article also mentions that Obama wondered if Wright was capable of being controversial. E.J. Dionne Jr. of the Washington Post wrote a column about the double standard when it comes to Republican politicians and their relationships with controversial religious leaders.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/01/AR2008050102903.html

"Do you have links to any of these sites? I'd like to see a few. " Here a few links to black websites that are addressing the issue of black on black crime.
http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/sayitloud/weathersbee319

http://whataboutourdaughters.blogspot.com/2008/03/chicago-tribune-covers-naacp-al.html

Conundrum,
Your patience WILL run out with this fellow, but I commend you for trying to "reach" him. : )

"Obama, it seems, has been a very political and calculating person."

You just defined a politician. They're all like that.

I read the Post article conundrum. No doubt there are right wing religious figures who are way out on the limb, Falwell and Robertson included. Being Catholic myself, a guy like Hagee smears my faith as well. I don't really care however, everyone has the right to free speech and his comments do nothing to change my beliefs. People get offended too easily these days imo.

As for your other links, the Rev. Al never ceases to amaze. I do think there is a case in the NY police shooting, the guy was unarmed and shot 50 something times. Something isn't right in that case.

Interesting event last night. After a wedding reception ended the party recommenced at the hotel in one of the rooms. My wife left for the party a few minutes earlier. When I left I heard loud noise coming from a room where I assumed our party was taking place, the door was halfway open so I walked in. There were about 20 black guys having their own party! When I told them I was looking for my wife they laughed at me and invited me in. So I hung out with them for about 10 minutes and spoke to a few guys, didn't borrow a beer, I had my own.

A few minutes later one guy I had not spoken with walked up to me and politely said "with all due respect I think you should leave". I told him no problem and said goodbye & left.

It got me wondering. Although they did invite me into the room it was after all their own private party. I took that as primary the reason the one guy asked me to leave, but the thought did cross my mind that perhaps he didn't feel comfortable having a white guy around. Who knows? Just an interesting interaction.

At any rate, I found our party a few more doors down and my wife of course. Pity the people in the room in between if they were trying to sleep with parties on both sides of them.