News-Record.com

"You are known by the company you keep".

..whether it be a fiery bigoted preacher or a tie dyed leftover 60s radical counterculturist.

Neocon said "...whether it be a fiery bigoted preacher or a tie dyed leftover 60s radical counterculturist." It's interesting how he left out conservative or right wing preachers. But, he's never been one to let hypocrisy to get in the way.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/04/opinion/04rich.html?em&ex=1210564800&en=7385fa74f43a6024&ei=5070

Conundrum, I'll concede your point... if you'll concede mine.

Gee I didn't know McCain sat in the pew of Hagee's church for 20 years and that Hagee was his spiritual mentor. Did Hagee marry him and Cindy and baptize their children too?

Granted McCain should have nothing to do with this nutcase Hagee, however this Obama/Wright = McCain/Hagee analogy conundrum posted doesn't wash.

"Gee I didn't know McCain sat in the pew of Hagee's church for 20 years and that Hagee was his spiritual mentor. Did Hagee marry him and Cindy and baptize their children too?"

Dan, I am having serious trouble following your logic or reasoning. Obama went to the church for 20 years. Do you think that Wright preached the same message every Sunday for 20 years? Billy Graham uttered anti-Semitic remarks, yet, I don't hear you calling for President Bush to renounce him. I think that you have a problem with Wright not having a warm and cozy view towards this country. You had the same reaction to Michelle Obama and her "first time proud" statement. Every American citizen does not have to be Lee Greenwood.

I think that your view on this Wright thing is best summarized by this clip by Bill Moyers.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/05022008/watch.html

Let's see, conondrum links us to the NYCrimes, and Bill Moyers, who was roundly criticized by the NPR ombudsman for his paddy cake interview with "Crazy Jerry." I would think that anyone using those less then credible sources (How did he miss the Huffington Post, or Daily Kos!) would have a problem following any real logic!

I suggest reading the book "Liberal Fascism" which traces the roots of todays liberals back to the "progressives" of the 19th and early 20the century to their love of Fascist and Stalinist dictators, their love for Mussolini and even Hitler. Threfore there is no need to attempt to use logic with them, as liberalism is illogical. One simple example. You fix discrimination by discriminating. It goes dwonhill from there.

Try, in your wildist dreams, to imagine a Republican candidate staying in a church for 20 years with a preacher, who he calls his spiritual advisor and mentor, who married him, baptized his children, who regularly railed against blacks who have destroyed our cities, our schools, gave us roaming gangs, a 70+ percent illegitimite birth rate, filled our prisons, sold DVDs of his rantings, went on PBS and repeated them. The Republican candidate then said, "I had no idea he was saying those things!" "That's not the man I knew for 20 years." "But what about all the good things he's done?" I'm sure the left-wing media, like the NY Crimes and PBS would tell us that the candidate can't be held responsible for what his preacher of 20 years says, or thinks.

Obama tried to paint the uber-liberal Geraldine Ferraro as a racist for merely telling the truth as to why his candidacy reached the level that it had. He suggested she be removed from the Clinton campaingn! Please explain to me why you believe that liberalism is anything other than a mental defect!

"Please explain to me why ... "

We would, Tony, but your record for follow-up is .. non-existing ..

( kinda like Bushy's Texas Driving Record )

My preacher, who is hardly a black racist, gave a sermon last Sunday that dealt with some of the issues Wright was trying to deal with in his "GD America" sermon. He steered clear on super controversial (and most likely incorrect) things such as Wright's theory about the beginning of AIDS and saying that 9/11 was God's punishment.

But really, the theme of the sermon was about being in the world and not of the world and the unique position that the church has to be in to be successful at this. He also expounded on the idea that many Christian Americans are putting the nation and themselves before God, that many believe the United States government to be without fault, that the belief that unbridled capitalism is the best way to operate an economy is wrought with without consideration of Christ's teachings, and that the United States is no longer a Christian nation, a nation who's first values are love and Jesus Christ, but a nation who's first value is wealth. God is the God of all nations and wants them all to be filled with love.

My point is, that the more we look at Rev. Wright, the more we see that he is a cartoon character, one given to exaggeration and childish antics. Yet, the message isn't all that bad or wrong. We might not like it, but it holds credence and should be examined. I feel like the discerning mind could see that in Wright's messages, which are a lot a longer than the 6 second clips shown on TV. Personally, I feel like Obama is smart enough to know the difference between the message and the Cartoon.

"NYCrimes." Enough said.

Rahrah, Rev. Wright is hardly a cartoon character. If you disagree with what he has said, that's fine, but, if in your career, military service or life work you have accomplished as much as he has, then you are in a position to make such a negative evaluation. TUCC has 59 ministries that reach out to the immediate community. The church grew from 87 members to 8,000 members. That's hardly the stuff of a cartoon character. Far from it.

I largely agree Conundrum. But in the public shows he has put on recently at the NAACP and National Press Club are very cartoonish. I realize that he's done a lot of good. I think you missed my point or maybe I failed to make it. The point was that people attack Wright for saying all of these "horrible" and "divisive" things, yet, when you examine his core messages in these sermons of which we only ever hear a few seconds, you'll find that, outside of some his crazy assertions like the one about AIDS, his messages have merit, especially with respect to a Christian congregation.

Your points about the church's growth and outreach go even further to show that the man is more than his words, and, though he might be jaded, he ain't all that bad.

I largely agree Conundrum. But in the public shows he has put on recently at the NAACP and National Press Club are very cartoonish. I realize that he's done a lot of good. I think you missed my point or maybe I failed to make it. The point was that people attack Wright for saying all of these "horrible" and "divisive" things, yet, when you examine his core messages in these sermons of which we only ever hear a few seconds, you'll find that, outside of some his crazy assertions like the one about AIDS, his messages have merit, especially with respect to a Christian congregation.

Your points about the church's growth and outreach go even further to show that the man is more than his words, and, though he might be jaded, he ain't all that bad.

"Do you think that Wright preached the same message every Sunday for 20 years?"

Certainly he changed the subject, I wasn't there. However hearing his rants is enough, enough.

"Billy Graham uttered anti-Semitic remarks, yet, I don't hear you calling for President Bush to renounce him."

Read "The Preacher and the Presidents". Billy Graham had a close relationship with many presidents over decades including LBJ. His relationship with GWB has been minimal, perhaps because of Graham's advanced age.

With all due respect conundrum, your link of a Bill Moyers bit would be equivalent to me linking an Ann Coulter bit. Please try something more credible.

Rahrah said,
"Yet, the message isn't all that bad or wrong. We might not like it, but it holds credence and should be examined. I feel like the discerning mind could see that in Wright's messages, which are a lot a longer than the 6 second clips shown on TV. "

Great points! I've tried to convey that to Dan, and he'll attest, but with no results. You take out some of the hyperbole, and the message from Wright is a very strong one. If, instead, you rely on the youtube clips or the right wing media, you will think Wright is the devil incarnate. The key word here is a "discerning mind", something we don't see in any media outlets and ESPECIALLY not in the pablum feeding FoxNewsChannel.
**********************

Dan,
If you compare Moyers to Coulter you are delusional, idiotic and totally out of touch.
While you may not agree with Moyers, you can learn a great deal from him. He could mop the floor with you in a debate and never raise his voice.

Coulter is a potty mouthed bloviator. She appeals to the lowest common denominator among conservatives---which by the way is Hillary's big demographic; uneducated, white males.
Coulter probably appears smart to the folks who buy her books--see above demographic. I've read one of her books and it is such a hack job of writing that wouldn't pass muster in a 12th grade English class!
Moyers would mop the floor with Coulter, although she would outpace him with profanities, racial slurs and homophobic remarks.

Here's an idea for you Dan: Go to the public library and check out the series Moyers did with Joseph Campbell, before Campbell's death. You can check out the DVD's called, The Power of Myth. You'll get more out of that one series than a lifetime of Ann Coulter.

BTW, I don't believe everything I hear from the left, and it would do you a world of good to be more discerning and read more from the folks that are pilloried weekly on FoxNews.

"BTW, I don't believe everything I hear from the left,.."

heh, heh, heh, that is priceless.

Note to Demon Deacon, I don't cite Coutler, ever. I don't even like her and agree she is a bloviator. She's to bombastic for me. But when conundrum cites Bill Moyers as, I assume, a reliable source well I have to laugh. Kinda like when you parrot Kos talking points.

I watched the Moyers-Wright interview, what a joke.

Dan,
Your attitude about Moyers is what is priceless.
I suppose when you only have a "surface" understanding of the issues, it's hard to follow along with anything other than a soundbite.

In the "TAKE THE CAKE" category:

AS USUAL, you take my line out of context. Very convenient for you, as its meaning is entirely different when you include the ENTIRE sentence!

" BTW, I don't believe everything I hear from the left, and it would do you a world of good to be more discerning and read more from the folks that are pilloried weekly on FoxNews."

Since you have trouble with comprehension:

Don't believe everything you hear, EVEN if you think you already AGREE with it! Untether yourself from that umbilical cord to the right wing propaganda machine!

Dan, you are very shallow and are not afraid to show the world. Beef up a little Dan! READ!