News-Record.com

I see the democrats shut down congress rather than vote on drilling! The America people want to drill for our own oil. Notice Obama has flipped and flopped again, seems he now want to maybe drill for oil. Did you notice the liberal witch yesterday on Fox Business that refused to answer the question on Destin Dome*. This oil and gas could be brought to this country in 18 months. This country needs to explore all types of energy. We also need to do it NOW.
*Every one should read about this! Just type in Destin Dome ! This will show you how both parties SUCK!

the CONservatives have spoken.

"Ask yourselves why we are the only country in the world whose leaders refuse to permit us to extract our own resources, thereby forcing us to pay nearly $4 per gallon for gas? Start asking them now!"

Frau Pelosi, speaking from her chamber in the politburo, says it is because she is "trying to save the planet", but many feel it is because the democrats desire high gas prices in order for the public to start demanding the nationalization of the oil companies and as an extra benefit, they (the public) will finally sign on to that long sought after socialist dream of the democrats - mass transportation... where people are either herded into cattle cars or ride bikes...like our socialist European brethren.

Facts never get in the way when it comes to some Republicans and how they see the world. Any oil from domestic drilling would go onto the world market. That means that oil drilled in this country could make its way to China. And any price decrease would take years to occur and the decrease would be minimal. But, why should facts matter?

"In May ’08 we imported from our top five suppliers — Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia and Nigeria — 6.3 million barrels per day. If we merely matched that production today, it would wipe out all but 800,000 barrels that we import from our major suppliers. What would that do to the price of oil?"

What if we could click our heels 3 times & magically transport ourselves from place to place, what would that do to the price of oil?

The point is that Tony & Republicans in general are indulging themselves in magical thinking this election year. Tony doesn't say that we have enough reserves to do what he suggests. Come on Tony. They gave you Counterpoint space. Couldn't you find ANY figures to back up your article?

There isn't enough domestic oil to bring down the price of oil that much & it wouldn't happen for years anyway. I heard one of the commentators on Fox claim that it was GWBs meaningless lifting of the executive ban on offshore drilling instituted by his dad that has brought down gas prices recently. Perhaps George also wished upon a star. Magical thinking.

This is all about finding a talking point that works for Republicans in a year where they are seen as screwing up everything that they've touched lately and not very much about doing anything meaningful about our energy problems.

Honest men know that we can't drill our way out of this problem. But then again this is an election year.

Dog, the Dems shut down the house, turned off the lights, and left. Apparently a five week vacation is more important to them than working on the nation's energy issues. Meanwhile Republicans refused to leave the House floor for five hours, a protest if you wish.

I switched between Charlie Gibson and Katie Couric repeatedly last night and neither mentioned the story.

There is a small article in today's N&R, here mentions nothing of the event:

Lawmakers sped for the exits Friday as Congress was to begin a five week recess after a summer session noteworthy for bitter partisanship and paralysis on the issue topmost in the minds of many voters: the cost of gasoline.

Fair and balanced? This article leads one to believe all of the House members sped for the exits, obviously not true.

Good article Tony, a counterpoint to boot.

Here is the Messiah's answer to offshore drilling, if Americans inflate their tires properly and get regular tune ups then we could save just as much fuel rather than getting new domestic sources of oil. Therefore new drilling won't be necessary, just inflate your tires!!

See if for yourselves, unbelievable.

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/142113.html

It amazes me that people actually think this guy is qualified to be president.

"There isn't enough domestic oil to bring down the price of oil that much & it wouldn't happen for years anyway."

I see this talking point incessantly.

http://www.americansolutions.com/General/?Page=9d64a628-d028-48c1-840d-330aea987841

The Messiah's new idea is for a $1,000 stimulus check to be paid for by "taking" the oil companies' excess profits. Okay, who determines what are "excess profits", Obama? And, since when does the government have the right to confiscatory-taking of one's property? This is just the first socialist program that Obama will implement if elected. What industry would be next, newspapers and television "excess profits"? What about the movie industry and celebrities' obscene profits and incomes? They certainly don't deserve to keep their billions. Make no mistake, Obama and the Democratic Congress will move to nationalize industries in this country and redistribute their income to worthy individuals of their choosing. Why is it that the more that I see of Obama, he reminds me of Hugo Chavez?

"It amazes me that people actually think this guy is qualified to be president." I am amazed that this current Bush is leading our country. "The best and the brightest." What does that say about this country?

"Our children is learning" - a quote by President Bush.

conundrum, I'll concede that Bush has done a lousy job in many areas, namely spending and allowing illegals by the millions to flood our country, but just a hint, Bush isn't running, the Messiah is.

Got your tires properly inflated and a recent tune up?

ORR, maybe Obama would confiscate money from oil companies to pay for tune ups!! The dough could also be used for tire inflation check points, kinda like weigh stations for trucks.

A good game for the Republicans would be for El Presidente to call an emergency session of congress to deal with the energy crisis. Let the debate take front and center of Government for a while.

"Got your tires properly inflated and a recent tune up? "

I hope so because that's the only relief at the pump that you're likely to see in the near future.

Dan,

Your link doesn't do much to bolster your argument. They make speculations much as Tony does in his counterpoint & calls them "Facts" such as 3 times as much oil shale & saudi has oil. When oil companies have proven that they can economically produce oil from these shales (which they so far haven't been able to do) then and only then that may be a relevant number. All of those oil shales in the western US would require amounts of water that to produce that aren't there. Until the problems are worked out it's not a solution it's just "magical thinking".

The article suggests just by saying we're going to drill prices will come down. More "magical thinking".

How come the law of supply and demand is sacrosanct to so called conservatives until it becomes inconvenient.

I honestly don't mind us drilling more but only if it were a compromise linked with items that would be more meaningful.

Drilling has become this years "gay marriage" as an election issue. Nothing more.

Market-wise:

It looks like the U.S. produces 5 million barrels per day of crude.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/basics/quickoil.html

Rufus or Conundrum, what would happen to prices if we were to announce, on Monday morning, that the U.S. had already started and was halting all production along progressive two-year segmented plans, cutting production in half every two years, with total cessation reached no later than the end of 2018?

Monday afternoon, would the per barrel cost of oil on the world market increase or decrease?

How about local gas prices? Would they increase or decrease by Tuesday morning?

Why?

"I honestly don't mind us drilling more but only if it were a compromise linked with items that would be more meaningful."

There we can agree Rufus. You seem to imply the conservatives only want more drilling and magically all of our energy problems will vanish.

To the contrary, many of us want more oil drilling but also want nuclear power, hybrids, solar, wind, natural gas and anything else that is viable. Haven't you seen all those T. Boone Pickens ads?

The solar was great at heating our water at the lodges we frequented last August, as long as you take a shower in the afternoon or early evening!!

Domestic oil is but one of the solutions. The cost of gas is high now, but what concerns me more is that we are so reliant on other countries for oil. Canada and Mexico, no problem, but Saudi Arabia, Iran and Venezuela aren't exactly our best buddies. Imagine what will happen to the price of oil if Iran launches a missle at Israel or vice versa?

Next week I'll spend a week with my brother and can't wait to ask him all of these questions. He has a Masters in Geology, a PhD. in geochemistry and works in oil exploration for a major oil company. He may know a thing or two about the subject.

Not to fear too much of a biased response from him, he thinks GWB is an idiot.

"You seem to imply the conservatives only want more drilling and magically all of our energy problems will vanish. "

Dan,

Right now we are having a political discussion about energy. This is the subject that Republicans think that they can get some traction with. It's not a serious attempt to solve the problem but yet this is a serious problem but we have to wait until the election is over & the new administration is in before we can have a serious discussion (if then) about this problem.

I agree with you that we need to look at this problem anew. My own personal view is we need to strengthen our grid with renewables (wind and solar) and nuclear, and develop an affordable plug-in hybrid that will get at least 40 miles on a charge. That will allow most people to go gas free for most days. That will have a major effect on gas prices which will even help folks like you that need to pull boats.

I'm seriously interested in what your brother says. Ask him about the oil shale. I don't think it can be widely exploited using current technology.

RB,

If the US made such an anouncement it would have a disorienting effect on prices & they would probably rise while the news was being digested but they would fall back down to their natural level. As the US started actually cutting on the 2 year segments (& probably before) the price would rise some but you have to remember the whole 5 mil/day is only about 6% of world supply. The world would get by OK without us though all things being equal the price would rise significantly. Now if Saudi made the same announcement........ (Which is why we need a serious discussion about this).

Rufus, I will agree that energy is an issue that Republicans feel they can use in November, especially as recent polls consistently indicate more than two thirds of Americans favor off shore drilling. I also agree our govt. won't do much this term with the election around the corner. Luckily I can afford $4/gallon gas, but for folks with less income this may be a significant wedge issue that will hurt Democrats come November as they are against domestic drilling.

Your idea of a car that would go 40 miles on a charge for commuting is laudable, but the electricity still has to come from somewhere. Solar panels on the roof of your house?

You mentioned "magical thinking", and for the moment considering wind, solar and other renewables capable of supplying the majority of our energy is magical thinking. Just look at the mess ethanol caused.

We likely agree that serious discussions need to take place to set a policy for new energy resources and becoming independent of other nations for our energy. With the partisan atmosphere that exists it may not be possible. I see R's as beholden to big oil and D's as beholden to the environmental extremists.

The cold hard fact is that today, 2008, and for many more years we will still need oil.

I'll let you know what my brother tells me. I remember traveling with him to western CO, UT, and WY back in the 80's exploring oil shale. You've never lived until you've been to Baggs, WY!!

"You mentioned "magical thinking", and for the moment considering wind, solar and other renewables capable of supplying the majority of our energy is magical thinking. Just look at the mess ethanol caused."

Dan,

Don't put words in my mouth. I say enough dumb things without help. Solar & wind for the forseeable future will be a fringe source of power but an important one and one that can take a lot of the future growth of supply. They are too unreliable to be the base of the power system by themselves. They can effectively be teamed with natural gas which can be brought on line quickly when the wind dies. Nuclear needs to be revisited both for its potential (we have a lot of uranium) and for the fact it's non-carbon.

My thoughts about strengthening the grid is about the need for plug-in hybrids. We have plenty of options there though some political deals need to be made before we can fully utilize them. I don't think the technology to make them is that far away & it will make more difference than any of the other stuff we've been talking about.

Sorry Rufus, didn't mean to put words in your mouth. Understood, my wife does that to me occasionally.

I just keep hearing that getting domestic oil will have no impact whatsoever and that the "magic bullet" is solar and wind. "Nucular" isn't normally included in that equation.

Again, the cold hard fact is that we need oil today. I prefer we produce more instead of relying on govts. and people that hate us for the stuff.

http://www.teslamotors.com/

Buy Me One Please.

rahrah,

Dang that's hot!

2 cents per mile, I guess you didn't figure the base price, 12 month wait, and other costs. Let me know which one of you guys gets one first. Good luck. I'll stick with my new gas sipper that gets 40mpg and cost a whole lot less.

Reservations for the Tesla Roadster are open to all U.S. residents
2009MY Roadster base price: $109,000 (see 2009 spec sheet for more details)
Availability approximately 12 months
$5000 refundable reservation fee starts the process and locks in price*
Additional $55,000 to lock in a production slot and delivery timeframe.
Exterior/interior choices, options and balance due 3 months prior to production of your Roadster

I've read elsewhere that this company, Tesla, is working on getting a more affordable production model family sedan based on the same principles, although, I doubt it'll be as fast. ;(

And Dan, you're a party pooper. Have fun with your Microsoft Sync in that Focus. Shouldn't be too long before it crashes.

Rufus,
I'm not saying it's The Solution. Just making a point.

(quote)
The article suggests just by saying we're going to drill prices will come down. More "magical thinking".
- 10:18am

"If the US made such an anouncement it would have a disorienting effect on prices & they would probably rise..."
- 3:26pm
(end quote)

I do agree when you said "Which is why we need a serious discussion about this," but we've got to maintain clear-headed thinking. Disagreeing because you don't think it's the best approach is fine, but ignoring how things actually work and citing magic isn't helpful.

And that's the fatal flaw of the no-new-drilling argument. If new drilling won't help lower prices enough to matter, then stopping what we're already doing shouldn't have much of an effect either, right?
--

rahrah, if you've got to be a conspicuous-consumption green, don't forget the Fisker:
http://jalopnik.com/344419/detroit-auto-show-fisker-karma-luxury-hybrid-only-80000

Hybrid if needed after a 50 mile range. If you lived 15 miles from work, you might not need any fuel for a long time. But, unlike the Roadster, you'd have the ability to go farther than 50 miles if you ever needed to.

They're the kind of cars I'd rather a friend bought, though. Like having a stunning wife who can't cook...

The biggest problem with the Tesla Roadster? The Elise that it's based on, which is $50k cheaper, gets 30mpg on bad days, has proven and reliable technology (a Toyota engine), and is one of the most fun cars ever made.

And that $50k saved, if put towards fuel costs (even at $5+/gal), means you could drive the Elise for 20 years on the money you didn't spend up front for the all-electric Roadster. And with no range limitations you could even drive to the mountains and back if you wanted to. Or to VIR for a track day.

People wouldn't think you were as virtuous, maybe. But I'd bet the potential stunning wife wouldn't care.

I guess I'm not the target audience...

RB,

Was it you who I was once discussing cars that the ladies find attractive at some point? Green cars? Fast cars? Tesla seems to fit both. Course, I'm sure it'll mostly be purchased by the insecure Hollywooders and eccentric billionaires. They probably don't have much of a problem with the ladies as it is.

Anyway.