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Don, you just got a glimpse of the lower case messiah without the teleprompter running "hope and change" and "yes we can" continuously across the screen in front of Him.

It's refreshing to see that even a Democrat could watch that forum and realize that Obama was skirting the questions while McCain answered them directly and with core beliefs.

The 'apologists' rushed to Obama's defense, "Obama was engaged in thought", they said, "McCain wasn't enclosed in the cone of silence" they added.

Thanks for your letter and your honest observations Mr. Mulligan.

Did we watch the same interviews? I don't know. I felt like McCain was constipated the whole time and that all of his answers were just pandering...disregarding the complexity of the issues and just telling religious nuts what they wanted to hear.

But that's just a personal opinion.

A letter with all generalities and no specifics to back up the assertions.

No doubt, it was probably a bad idea for Obama to participate in this forum. Obviously, it was a set-up with tailor-made questions for the simplistic answers and one or two-word slogans that the evangelical crowd seems to demand (Evil? "Defeat it!" Applause. When does life begin? "At conception." Applause.)

But why should I be surprised? Rick Warren, the pastor of the church, declared to the American public that John McCain was in a soundproof section of the church—when that wasn’t the case at all. An outright lie is what it was, and an important one. Apparently, Warren is from the Ralph Reed school of Christian thought (Ralph Reed being another documented right-wing liar) that says it is ok to lie in politics if it progresses the goals of Christianity—their view of Christianity, that is. Reed actually said that.

It sickens me how, all of a sudden, right-wingers are branding McCain a “good” and “acceptable” Christian, when only a few months ago back in the primaries they had a big problem with him. Throughout his long stint in government he has hardly ever brought up the subject of Christianity (although he probably did at fund raisers and at those CUFI meetings). There was that time, however, when he did, in fact, bring the subject up when he criticized some right wing Christian groups. Of course, that served his political purposes at the time, but like just about every other issue which McCain has taken multiple positions on, he flipped on that too, sucking up to the very groups he had criticized earlier when political expediency demanded a different approach.

I heard a right-wing commentator say that “there was absolutely no proof that John McCain heard the answers” to those questions. I agree. That’s true. But then the same commentator, just a few seconds later declared that he knew for a fact that McCain hadn’t cheated during the forum because “he was a man of integrity.”

Give me a break. This is the same man who looked slimy as all get-out in the Keating Five Scandal, the same man who was only capable of getting into politics by dumping his first wife and then marrying a rich, young trophy version, and the same man who has shown he is perfectly willing to lie to get himself elected (How about that lie he told to the Pittsburgh, Pa. crowd, conveniently incorporating the Steelers football team into his war story? A harmless tale you say? Well then, I guess Hillary's campaign trail lie about Bosnia was just fine too, huh? Both of those lies disgust me).

Alas, there is little doubt in my mind that he will get elected, but I don’t want to hear complaints about how I’m just a “McCain Basher” once I start saying "I told you so" after our country sinks even deeper into this Republican mire created over the past eight years. Because, no doubt, he will continue, like Bush, doing next to nothing for the American people while unnecessarily throwing our money down rat holes all over other parts of the world.

But, all that's fine. Right? As long as he opposes abortion.

And by the way, this man can’t even use a computer, and this is who you want running the country in this day and age?

But we can compare answers.
(Apologies for the All Caps...the transcript I'm referencing is written like this).

McCain on a Abortion:

AT THE MOMENT OF CONCEPTION. I HAVE A 25-YEAR PRO LIFE RECORD IN THE CONGRESS, IN THE SENATE. AND AS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, I WILL BE A PRO LIFE
PRESIDENT AND THIS PRESIDENCY WILL HAVE PRO LIFE POLICIES. THAT'S MY COMMITMENT, THAT'S MY COMMITMENT TO YOU.

Obama:

....above paygrade...BUT POINT NUMBER TWO, I AM PRO-CHOICE. I BELIEVE IN ROE V. WADE AND COME TO THAT CONCLUSION NOT BECAUSE I'M PRO ABORTION, BUT BECAUSE ULTIMATELY I DON'T THINK WOMEN MAKE THESE DECISIONS CASUALLY. THEY WRESTLE WITH THESE THINGS IN PROFOUND WAYS. IN CONSULTATION WITH THEIR PASTORS OR SPOUSES OR THEIR DOCTORS AND THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS. AND SO FOR ME, THE GOAL RIGHT NOW SHOULD BE -- AND THIS IS WHERE I THINK WE CAN FIND COMMON GROUND AND BY THE WAY I HAVE NOW INSERTED THIS INTO THE DEMOCRAT PARTY PLATFORM IS HOW DO WE REDUCE THE NUMBER OF ABORTIONS BECAUSE THE FACT IS THAT ALTHOUGH WE'VE HAD A PRESIDENT WHO IS OPPOSED TO ABORTIONS OVER THE LAST EIGHT YEARS, ABORTIONS HAVE NOT GONE DOWN.

So McCain says, "I'm Pro-life, will be, will have Pro-life policies."

Obama says, "I'm Pro-Choice, I believe in Roe v Wade." (Core enough for you?) But he also says, "Look, a pro-life President with Pro-life policies for eight years, hasn't led to lower abortions, so we need to figure that out."

Gay Marriage, specifically support for a Constitutional Amendment prohibiting:

McCain:

I BELIEVE IN THAT STATE SHOULD MAKE THOSE DECISIONS. IN MY STATE, I HOPE WE WILL MAKE THAT DECISION AND OTHER STATES. WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THE UNIQUES STATUS OF MARRIAGE BETWEEN MAN AND WOMAN AND THAT MEANS -- THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT PEOPLE CAN'T ENTER INTO LEGAL AGREEMENTS, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHTS OF ALL CITIZENS. I'M NOT SAYING THAT. I AM SAYING THAT WE SHOULD PRESERVE THE UNIQUE STATUS OF MARRIAGE BETWEEN ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN AND IF A FEDERAL COURT -- IF A FEDERAL COURT DECIDED THAT MY STATE OF ARIZONA HAD TO OBSERVE WHAT THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS DECIDED, THEN I WOULD FAVOR A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT. UNTIL THEN, I BELIEVE THE STATE SHOULD MAKE THE DECISIONS WITHIN THEIR OWN STATES.

Obama:

NO, I WOULD NOT.

Q. WHY NOT?
A. BECAUSE HISTORICALLY -- BECAUSE HISTORICALLY WE HAVE NOT DEFINED MARRIAGE IN OUR CONSTITUTION. IT'S BEEN A MATTER OF STATE LAW THAT HAS BEEN OUR TRADITION. LET'S BREAK IT DOWN. THE REASON THAT PEOPLE THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT, SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE, IS BECAUSE OF THE CONCERN THAT ABOUT SAME SEX MARRIAGE. I AM NOT SOMEBODY WHO PROMOTES SAME SEX MARRIAGE BUT I DO BELIEVE IN CIVIL UNIONS. I DO BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD NOT -- THAT FOR A GAY PARTNERS TO WANT TO VISIT EACH OTHER IN THE HOSPITAL FOR THE STATE TO SAY YOU KNOW WHAT THAT'S ALL RIGHT, I DON'T THINK IN ANY WAY INHIBITS MY CORE BELIEFS ABOUT WHAT MARRIAGE ARE. I THINK MY FAITH IS STRONG ENOUGH AND MY MARRIAGE IS STRONG ENOUGH THAT I CAN AFFORD THOSE CIVIL RIGHTS TO OTHERS EVEN IF I HAVE A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE OR A DIFFERENT VIEW.

So, Obama and McCain defined marriage between one man and one woman. They both are cool with civil unions and think that the issue of marriage should be left up to the states because it's a state issue. The difference? McCain supports an amendment to the Constitution if a federal court decides that other states must observe same-sex marriages performed by other states. The trouble is, this most certainly will be the case because of Article IV, Section 1 of the US Constitution. Talk about skirting the issue...essentially, he's saying, "It's up to the states unless they disagree with me, in which case I support an amendment to the Constitution that takes rights away from people without the due process of law."

Anyway, we can do more later. I've got class.

The question wasn't "what are your feelings on abortion" rahrah. The question was when does a baby get human rights.

McCain: at conception.

Obama: above my paygrade. BUT.........

I agree with McCain and understand others don't. There are many interpretations who when a baby should be given human rights. Obama should have said he didn't know or given the answer he believes to be true.

"But he (Obama) also says, "Look, a pro-life President with Pro-life policies for eight years, hasn't led to lower abortions, so we need to figure that out."

Either Obama was lying or he isn't up to date with facts. Here is a Jan. 2008 article that states abortions are at their lowest rate in decades.

http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/healthday/080117/us-abortion-rate-falls-to-lowest-level-in-decades.htm

The question was biased, possibly stupid....

'It's a complex issue yada yada yada, give me a simple answer.'

Oh, I see now it was biased. How terribly unfair.

Yes, give me an answer please. Most people don't reply that the answer to this question is above their paygrade. They simply state their personal belief, whatever that may be.

McCain denies listening in on the first segment with Obama, but both he and the Saddleback Church people acknowledge he wasn't in anything like a soundproof booth. He was in his motorcade enroute to the church.

Ohmygosh Kornbluth, I just found out you are correct, McCain wasn't in the 'cone of silence' at all times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqcSWI6Ppks&NR=1

(Wow! Looks like Dan is really DON!)

The entire Saddleback 'debate' was just a forum for McCain to reel in his base. They hooked up to the IV drip of right wing ("simple") answers to complex problems.
The audience's pre-conceived beliefs were already concreted in their craniums...."Abortion=bad".
After that, it was just a matter of letting the time pass. For Obama, it was a large waste of time. If he is the celebrity McCain says he is, then the Saddleback congregation got to see him up close and personal. LOL!

"For Obama, it was a large waste of time."

Then why did he do it? He should have stayed on his private beach in Hawaii an extra day or two. He's refused town hall meetings with McCain. Oh that's right, no teleprompter. Wait till the debates.

"Wow! Looks like Dan is really DON!"

Nah, I'm not an old time Democrat. Glad to see one of your own saw the light, there is 'hope'.