News-Record.com

Well I keep hearing "President Clinton put on steroids the Community Redevelopment Act"

Anyone able to show that?

(continued from the bottom of) http://blog.news-record.com/opinion/letters/archives/2008/09/americans_need_clarity_on_us_f.shtml#comments

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p.s.:

The Graham-Leach-Bliley Act doesn't count because - while signed by Clinton - it removed wall of separation between banking, insurance and brokerage activities.

... and Raines Gorelick looting doesn't count eother. They did what all those bastards do .. rape and plunder (but yea I'm a code pink for saying that. BTW - Phil Graham recieved for the above (and other actions): $1,000,914 in campaign contributions from the Securities & Investment.

I've yet to see the "link to the truth"

I ask for the umpteenth time:

Please show where "a hint to Fannie and Freddie" became Barney Frank "forcing" the gurus of wall street to make loans for "affordable" housing without so much as a credit check let alone to those without so much as a job.

Please show where "President Clinton put on steroids the Community Redevelopment Act" - not an editorial (from which that quote has been taken) .. show the data. What law did he sign? What did he do to FORCE Wall Streeters to start making really stupid decisions with other peoples money?

You're wasting you time. Ideologs don't feel the need to document their evidence. They feed on raw emotion.

Here's the closest thing to Truth I've found:

http://www.washingtonian.com/print/articles/6/171/8593.html

JDR

Great article. Thanks for forwarding it to us. So to sum it up, political inaction got the country to where it is today in regards to Fannie and Freddie's bail outs. They were like rolling snow balls, with less threat in the 1990s but growing to an immense size and greater disaster in the 2000s and ending with an explosion in 2008. GWB was right there watching it, hoping to leave it for someone else.

There is alot of blame to spread around, but it comes back to the one steering the boat for the last eight years.

As Harry said, the buck stops here, like it or not.

“Uh, no I can't … ”

That’s the final word, coming from the second-smartest-person “(certainly on this blog, and quite possibly in the country...dare I say world?)”:

“Uh, no I can't … “ show any mandate (meaning legal requirement) for the Wall Street Wizards who used other peoples’ monies to purchased Freddie / Fannie mortgages only to bundled them into unfathomable – but highly profitable – “financial instruments” …

Regardless and of course - according to this same second-smartest-person, “the vast majority of the blame lies with the democrats and their social engineering schemes”.

Hey, at least now we know!

http://blog.news-record.com/opinion/letters/archives/2008/09/americans_need_clarity_on_us_f.shtml#comments

These are some Democrats who fought AGAINST more regulation for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in 2004.
Democrat Maxine Waters, Democrat. Greggory Meeks, Democrat Lacy Clay, Democrat Arthur Davis, Democrat Barney Frank
Bill Clinton also said it was the RESPONSIBILITY of the democrats to resist any efforts by the Republicans to put more standards and oversight on Fannie and Freddie.
Don't believe me? Listen for yourselves, the words directly from the above listed people at

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/09/memory_lane_lynching_franklin.html

Words do mean something.
How Barney Frank and Nancy Polosi can lie and try to blame this on the Republicans is beyond reason. But sound reasoning has never been the democrats strong suit.

Here are some Republicans who fought for MORE regulation on Fannie and Freddie.
Republican Richard Baker, Republican Ed Royce, Republican Christopher Shay, Republican Don Manzullo

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/09/memory_lane_lynching_franklin.html

By the way Farnk Raines who was the head of Fannie Mae is Obama's chief economic adviser. Yea lets vote Obama in, makes sense to me.

Clearly the Dem's have serious complicity, Beach Walker - I do not think anyone doubts that.

The issue (at least mine) is this:

So the Dem's were saying stupid stuff; what else is new?
Yea Fannie and Freddie were acting like typical UPPER MANAGEMENT FIRST corporations.
What FORCED the Wall Streeters to start making really stupid decisions with other peoples money?

James D. Rockefeller
What FORCED the Wall Streeters to start making really stupid decisions with other peoples money?

No one "forced" Wall Streeters to make stupid decision with other people's money, but it was easier without more regulation. Which the Republicans fought for and the democrats fought against (although you would never know it by listening to the mainstream media).

Beachwalker,

I think you have not read enough to make your argument valid. Sounds like rage and anger, without much substance.

molly the dog

I'm sorry I didn't hear any valid arguments to defend how the democrats fought against more regulation for Fannie and Freddie. All you said was the same old mumbo-jumbo of attacking the messenger. Come back when you got something to say.

"Republicans fought for and the democrats fought against ..."

SOME Republicans fought for .. and SOME democrats fought against.

SOME Republicans said, "This is getting out of hand"
SOME Democrats said: "naaa .. leave it alone".

MANY Republicans and a larger count of Democrats were all strong armed by the forces of Freddie and Fanny - and MOST said: "Naaa .. leave it alone".

That's not "fighting".

What we now here is alot of finger pointing. I thinkg this honest ones take my approach. The Partisans blame Clinton or Carter or Barney Frank. Alternatively they say "The Republicans were in charge ..." Frankly it's much harder to defend the latter ... but I'll grant an accurate tally might be 65% Baffoon Democrats and 35% Bozo Republicans.

The real issue was political power and corruption within Freddie and Fanny that was too much for everyone on Capital Hill to worry about when the economy was doing OK and there was a war or two going on and fund raising and ... and every other issue and excuse. They all became pussies on the hunt [for re-election funding] and ignored the many warnings that were in fact out there.

I offer you the same challange:

Show where anyone "forced" the gurus of wall street to make loans even the grunts knew were bad.

Show where the Community Redevelopment Act FORCED Wall Streeters to start making really stupid decisions with other peoples money.

Were the laws lax? Sure .. but really smart men were doing really stupid things .. and really powerful men were ignoring these really stupid things that were being done in spite of repeated flags being raised.

PS ... your highly partisan 2004 [youtube] link is similar to my neutral 2002 (Washingtonian] link .. including - indeed starting with - Rep. Christopher Shay's attempts to bring this to light.

http://www.washingtonian.com/print/articles/6/171/8593.html

One other thing .. if you could do an easy search of this blog, you'll find a lot of Partisan claims boasting about all the loans being made to blacks and other minorities - "proof" that the economy was doing GREAT.

I would say that I can agree with most of what you said. But lets look at the title of the LTE that got this blog started, "Republican Party is fiscally irresponsible". When I see such an idiotic letter as the one Bob Tilyard wrote, I have to correct the record. I'll admit that some of the Republicans are at falut in this. But who is more resposible? Obviously MANY MORE of the democrats fought HARD against more regulation. But to hear the liberal media you would think ALL OF THIS is the fault of the Republicans. In 2001 and 2003 the Bush administration fought to have more regulation on Fannie and Freddie. In 2004 more Republicans than democrats fought during a hearing on Fannie and Freddie, for more regulation. In 2006 McCain warned of the hugh storm that was brewing with Fannie and Freddie. So for anyone to say this is the fault of the Republicans is simply speaking out of liberal partisan politics and ignorance.

“Uh, no I can't … ”

"That’s the final word"

Tsk, tsk...that wasn't the final word, but it's not unusual to see you edit and take out of context others' words when you have nothing left. Your defense of the democrats in this absolutely laughable...ant the memo from Jimmy Carter where 'he did not mandate the loans be made' is kinda pitiful...but still laughable.

Tom Shuford will not say this, but I will. He handed you your ass on a silver platter on this subject and it's been mighty fun to watch you squirm and spin and link to Jimmy Carter memos as proof that Jimmy Carter did no wrong. How shallow can you get? LOL

"The real issue was political power and corruption within Freddie and Fanny that was too much for everyone on Capital Hill to worry about when the economy was doing OK"

Bullshit.

The economy was doing OK when McCain tried to do something about this trainwreck, but was drowned out by the democrats who were too busy raking in the cash.

Beachwalker:

We agree when someone starts a conversation with "Republican Party is [100%] fiscally irresponsible" .. it is by definition an idiotic letter/position.

My retort is that similarly, when someone creates a YouTube video that says "Democrat Party is [100%] responsible" .. it is also by definition an idiotic position.

Who is "more" resposible .. I again would argue that is a subjective rhetoric.

Did more Democrats fight against regulation? If they did, they were taking a Republican stance, which is [suppose to be] all about keeping g-men out of our lives.

Did more Democrats say It ain't broke, so don't fix it? Were these democrat's wrong? I think the answer to both is a clear yes, but considering the absolute power the Republicans had - certainly in 2002 though 2004 era, it is clear the Republican Leadership did not take the matter seriously either. Consider this: Had in the Spring of 2003, GWB come out and said "We're going into Iraq [because that's how we'll capture Osama bid Laden], and we are also reshape Fannie and Freddie because they represent a different but still very real threat to the security of the United States" ... don't you think it would have sailed through?

To say this is the fault of the Republicans is simply speaking out of liberal partisan politics and ignorance.

To say this is the fault of the Democrats is simply speaking out of liberal partisan politics and ignorance.

To say this is the fault of the both parties, mostly due to there eternal and infernal squabling, is speaking close to the truth.

"In 2006 McCain warned of the hugh storm that was brewing with Fannie and Freddie".

Sort of. Here's what he actually said on May 25, 2006:

McCain said: "I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole."

Sounds GREAT .. but ... according to the Congressional Research Service, "a well-respected nonpartisan arm of the Library of Congress" .. and from

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-190&tab=summary

1/26/2005--Introduced.

Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005 - Amends the Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act of 1992 to establish: (1) in lieu of the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight of the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), an independent Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Agency which shall have authority over the Federal Home Loan Bank Finance Corporation, the Federal Home Loan Banks, the Federal National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae), and the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac); and (2) the Federal Housing Enterprise Board.
Sets forth operating, administrative, and regulatory provisions of the Agency, including provisions respecting: (1) assessment authority; (2) authority to limit nonmission-related assets; (3) minimum and critical capital levels; (4) risk-based capital test; (5) capital classifications and undercapitalized enterprises; (6) enforcement actions and penalties; (7) golden parachutes; and (8) reporting.

Amends the Federal Home Loan Bank Act to establish the Federal Home Loan Bank Finance Corporation. Transfers the functions of the Office of Finance of the Federal Home Loan Banks to such Corporation.

Excludes the Federal Home Loan Banks from certain securities reporting requirements.

Abolishes the Federal Housing Finance Board.

==

So look again:

... establishes different oversight ...

... "Sets forth operating, administrative, and regulatory:

Are these good? We know only that they are different .. might be better but no one knows 'cause it was merely a concept.

"Excludes the Federal Home Loan Banks from certain securities reporting requirements.
Abolishes the Federal Housing Finance Board.

Is this good? "Excludes ... securities reporting requirements" sure sounds like deregulation - which is opposite what folks seem to be calling for these days.

==

Here's more: On May 25, 2006, McCain said: "I join as a cosponsor ... " By then, the bill - which was was inititated January 2005, "passed as an amended version, the referred to Conference Chair Santorum [Remember him? Clearly a flaming LIEberal Demon-crat}, who then appears not to have moved it on. The Congressional Record makes no mention of it after he got it. Which means it was never placed on the agenda for a floor vote.

"This bill never became law. This bill was proposed in a previous session of Congress. Sessions of Congress last two years, and at the end of each session all proposed bills and resolutions that haven't passed are cleared from the books."

==

So what does all this mean?

To say this is the fault of the Republicans is simply speaking out of liberal partisan politics and ignorance.

To say this is the fault of the Democrats is simply speaking out of liberal partisan politics and ignorance.

To say this is the fault of the both parties, mostly due to there eternal and infernal squabling, is speaking close to the truth.

Meant to include:

"Here's more: On May 25, 2006, McCain said: "I join as a cosponsor ... " By then, the bill - which ... was never placed on the agenda for a floor vote .. was effectively dead. MAYBE McCain intended to re-ignite it .. but did he make more than one speech on it?

Here's another tid-bit. Apparently this same legislation has been re-introduces as S. 1100: Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2007

Same Sponsors and Co-sponsers, except McCain is conspicuously missing ...

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-1100

Meant to include:

"Here's more: On May 25, 2006, McCain said: "I join as a cosponsor ... " By then, the bill - which ... was never placed on the agenda for a floor vote .. was effectively dead. MAYBE McCain intended to re-ignite it .. but did he make more than one speech on it?

Here's another tid-bit. Apparently this same legislation has been re-introduces as S. 1100: Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2007

Same Sponsors and Co-sponsers, except McCain is conspicuously missing ...

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-1100

squirm schirm, neo.

please show everyone where Tom handed me my ass.

please show everyone how "McCain tried to do something about this trainwreck"

please show how Barney Frank - or Jimmy Carter, or Bill Clinton - or how freaking anyone - "Forced" the gurus of wall street to do stupid things with other peoples money ..

or shut up. your pigheaded and simple bias is showing like a soiled panana dress.

Your copy n' pasting of government bills does not show the behind the scenes arm twisting and/or money changing hands...Duh. These are almost as credible as the Jimmie Carter memo. LOL

"or shut up. your pigheaded and simple bias is showing like a soiled panana dress"

Your on-line decorum suffers greatly when your goat has been got. Methinks your defense of the democrats is all wind and spin. And you have the gall to call someone 'partisan'.

I'm literally LAUGHING MY ASS OFF! You can dish it out, but can't take it...without your flock of admires chiming in with their blind support. LOL

Republicans are squirming and spinning and whining to get out of their part of the responsibility. No one's listening but the die hard party faithful.
Is it true that the GOP is the third largest party in NC behind Democrats and "Unaffiliated"?
I foresee a day when the GOP ceases to exist in the not too distant future.
Then we can work on getting rid of the Democratic Party. If we get rid of all the parties, people will have to think instead of watching Fox News or reading the Huffington Post.