News-Record.com

...the media pushes whatever sells. A first black President sells. Beginning a war in Iraq sells. Beyonce's latest purse sells.

Plus, Obama picks seem not to want to pay taxes. Lastest Tom Daschle. Of course he to just made a honest mistake! Their mistake was they got caught!

You tell 'em JIm.

If congress really wanted to create change, television would be banned for four years. No more cell phones or personal computers. Then, and only then, would Americans be outraged enough to roll up their sleeves and make a difference.

Let me add to that cigarettes and beer. OMG! it would be anarchy.

"America, you’d better wake up quick."

Forget it, those who have jobs are more concerned about watching American Idol. Those who don't have jobs are more concerned about getting more govt. aid.

You do have an idea Molene, but I have a simpler one. Right when American Idol comes on the screen goes black. After the initial swooning is complete, the screen shows Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid quotes in an hour long loop. Throw in a few Blagojevich speeches to boot. Revolution is guaranteed.

As for the media, with the constant fawning over Obama is pathetic.

Next on my reading list:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1596980907/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link

When one of it's members states that a presidential candidate gives him a tingle up his leg....it's officially over.

Jim, did you not enjoy the breaking news story from Hawaii concerning the little messiah's chiseled pecs and how He acquired them?

I'll bet you're one them Bible thumpin' Christians who tosses out their litter on the roadside, wants to spend government money controlling a woman's body, and probably thinks Iraq attacked us. :]

Doesn't matter Dan, you wouldn't want to become part of the revolution anyway, you might have to give up one of your "toys" or something, you can't have it all. We can't revolt and make change with people that aren't willing to make changes in their own lives to better the world.

As for the media coverage of Obama, memories are short, for I remember quite a bit of coverage on several presidents upon winning the presidency and taking over the office.

Jim is right, Congress is incompetent and out of control. There is no reason for the waste in spending except that it's spoiled brats running the country that have never been taught to conserve, or understand the value of a dollar. All they know is what they can get out of the system, without having to do their jobs correctly.

to TDBB: how many picks of Georgie's were upstanding, HONEST citizens? Not any as far as I can see. If you think differently then you sure are brain washed.

"..you might have to give up one of your "toys" or something,..."

I fail to see what something I worked for and paid for has to do with a revolution.

In order for a revolution to take place, people must be willing to sacrifice for change , somehow I don't see you doing that, Dan. You don't seem to be willing to sacrifice anything for the betterment of this country or the people in it. It's always all about you. It's not so much what you have worked for and paid for but the greed and wastefulness that has to change for this country and the world, for that matter, to make a better place for ALL to live. Not just you either so don't go getting on your high horse about it, everybody has to make sacrifices.

Those who live beyond their means have got to stop buying on credit. Those that spend our taxpayer dollars on waste have to stop. Those that pollute and destroy have to stop. Those that throw away food and useable goods have to stop. Those that kill for power and greed have to stop!! Those that drive the stock market up to rediculous rates have got to stop. This can't go on forever!

Like I've said before are we just going to sit idly by and let it all go to hell and leave that for our children and grandchildren to have to fix, just because we aren't to the self destruct phase yet?? And none of us are willing to make the sacrifices necessary to make change happen.

Hey when are you guys going to set up your profile pages? It's easy and a great way to get to know others in our little community here. To view someone's profile page just click on the balloon under the name.

I see on our profile that you like to ride motorcycles. Toys.....hmmmmm?

"You don't seem to be willing to sacrifice anything for the betterment of this country or the people in it."

I sacrifice half of my income in taxes. I willingly donate my money to charities and my time to volunteer work.

This letter is about congress and their wasteful spending. It may sound strange nowadays but I'm one of those people who works for a living, pays the mortgage on time as well as all of the bills. This may sound completely alien but I pay my credit card off in full each month!!

Keep dreamin' noname but you won't find too many takers on your vision of society. We can agree that people should be less wasteful and live within their means, but now the very same people are going to be rewarded by govt. for living outside their means.

You can set an example by ceasing those motorcycle rides, a bicycle would demonstrate true sacrifice on your part.

Here's an idea.......... If you have an issue with our government, or feel that the government is no longer working, then it is your constitutional duty to overthrow said government. So, either do your duty as an American citizen, or keep your mouth shut.

Sorry, I'm a little crabby today.

But seriously, all of this bitching and bickering back and forth isn't going to change a damn thing. If you want change, you have to make it yourself. Unless you do something about it, you are becoming the very people you are railing against.

Dan We opt for the cycle instead of the car thus using much less gas and polluting less. We get over 70mpg on the bike compared to 30 in the car.

I really doubt that you pay half your salary to taxes. One of your exaggerations I guess to make a point.

If you pay your credit card off each month what's the point in having one? You are just wasting money on interest and fees. Just pay cash for what you buy instead. Don't say it can't be done because I dont' have a single credit card and we manage just fine.

This letter is about congress and their wasteful spending but the wasteful spending is everywhere in this country. Just think, if people were less wasteful, with everything, prices wouldn't be as high as they are. Our capitalistic society sees joe blow as an easy mark that they can brainwash into thinking that we need all these fancy gadgets and we will have to pay so much for them.

No one is aparently aware that we have all been brain washed over the years by lies from our government, and by free enterprise with all the advertising and conditioning to be more materialistic.

If we cut back big business will have to back down some and make necessary goods affordable again. Of course they have done that themselves anyway by sending all the jobs to other countries and now joe blow can't afford all the luxuries that he used to. So what's the next step?

Actually a depression wouldn't be bad it would wake alot of materially blind people, up to the facts of waste and overspending. I know I can survive a depression cuz I live on the fringes anyway and know how to survive, period. I waste very little.

"the average motorbike is about 10 times more polluting per mile than a passenger car, light truck or SUV, according to a California Air Resources Board comparison of emissions-compliant vehicles."

"Long story short: Motorcycles, even small ones, are more polluting than Hummers, but it's the best that can be done for now."

http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-hy-throttle11-2008jun11,0,3268856.story?track=rss

"Those that pollute and destroy have to stop"

Goodness how I enjoy the do-as-I-says.

in your article there are reasons cited for less concern for motorcycles pollution as compared to cars.

Motorcycles account for such a small portion of vehicle miles traveled.

* There haven't been enough advances in motorcycle emissions technologies to enable further pollution reduction to any significant degree.

* There are other, even bigger polluters to deal with, such as diesel trucks, construction equipment and non-emissions-compliant products from China.

Carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas, isn't measured by either agency, but motorcycles are generally better than other vehicles in this regard since they use less fuel per mile.

BTW we limit our trips to town to a bare minimum regardless of what we drive. We usually go into town about twice a week. We both work out of the house so we don't have commuter miles.

I'm sure your vehicles don't pollute either huh RB?

"We opt for the cycle instead of the car.."

You should sacrifice and ride bicycles as Roger documented you are polluting even more than cars with your motorcycle. Sacrifice.

"I really doubt that you pay half your salary to taxes."

Sorry but it's true. That does include all taxes including sales, property, gas, fed, state, SS (I pay the full percentage being self-employed). Think what you want, but I've calculated it.

"If you pay your credit card off each month what's the point in having one?"

I guess you don't get out too much. I travel frequently for my job and you cannot book an airline ticket or rent a car without a credit card.

"Just think, if people were less wasteful, with everything, prices wouldn't be as high as they are."

I guess you didn't study economics either. When demand grows, and supply is able to be increased prices go down via economies of scale in production. That is why you didn't pay $5000 for your computer.

I don't ride a bicycle for two reasons I live on a very busy road with no bicycle lane, I'm not going to risk my life, and I live so far out in the country that it wouldn't be prudent for me to ride a bike, I physically can't at this point in my life anyway.

Geez, to hear you tell it you are the only one that pays taxes. I Didn't know the whole state of the country rests on your shoulders, that must be an awful burden.

Why would you book flights if you have your own plane? You know the one that pollutes much more than our little 250 Kaw does.

Your economics lesson doesn't hold water to me. Yes, there is a supply and demand factor but there is also a greed factor that keeps prices higher than they should be for food , clothing and housing. My point being that if people quit spending their money on material things that aren't really necessary we would all be alot better off. Big business would feel the pinch of a quiet revolution. They would have to reduce the price of their products to get people buying again. But most of all they need to bring our jobs back.

And No I don't go out much I stay at home and conserve on fuel and reduce my pollution. I don't have need for constant travel and business meetings, my customers come to me.

BTW Dan, you complain about all the taxes you have to pay out. From where I sit looks like you put yourself in that position, with all your planes and boats and vehicles and fine house or houses, which ever the case may be. Nobody twisted your arm to buy those things, but now you want to complain that you have to pay taxes on them, well boo hoo. Either get rid of some of your material possessions or quityerbitchin.

"United States Environmental Protection Agency 2007 certification result reports for all vehicles versus on highway motorcycles (which also includes scooters),[41] the average certified emissions level for 12,327 vehicles tested was 0.734. The average "Nox+Co End-Of-Useful-Life-Emissions" for 3,863 motorcycles tested was 0.8531, for a difference of about 16%, not the claimed 10X factor. Likewise, if one looks at how many of the 2007 motorcycles tested were also catalytic equipped, 54% of them, 2,092, were equipped with a catalytic converter."

We all have our agendas, I guess. And we can usually find documentation to fit in whatever way we think. Does the fuel efficiency of motorbikes (thereby reducing our oil dependency on the ME and various other countries) outweigh the increased (less than 16% more than cars and even less for new motorcycles) nitrogen emissions or is it the other way around? If motorcycle emissions do not exceed what the EPA standards are, can they be all that harmful?

Until science produces evidence that the minor increase in emissions grossly harm our environment, I guess the average person would be inclined to go with whatever fits their pocketbooks.

Dan,

Just a comment about what noname has posted. I clearly remember you defiantly telling me and JDR as long as you could afford to put gas in your airplane, your boat and your SUV, you would continue to waste (naturally, waste is my word) gas because you deserved those pleasures. This was when gas had gone up to a little less than three dollars/gallon and people were writing letters about large truck and SUV using a disproportionate amount of gas. The letter writers were trying to get people to conserve so the American public could force a reduction in gas prices. You were most unsympathetic with folks who could not afford to put gas in their vehicles.

I told you of a little test I had conducted within a four mile radius of my house. Of the 23-24 vehicles I passed in the opposite lane, 17 (or 18) were either trucks or SUV's (with only the driver in the vehicle). You basically said as long as people could pay for their gas, it was OK to drive whatever they wanted.

There was absolutely no concession to the environment (which effects everyone), no concession to working with others to help everyone or no concession to hardships on others to which you help contribute.

It is my opinion you are not a bad person but that you are very unaware sometimes.

I do not know of any president or Congress within my lifetime that has not wasted money hand over fist except Jimmy Carter. It remains to be seen if Obama will be the second.

I liken this pre-alarm about Obama and Congress to the time I needed government assistance. Some would say to make the initial outlay in my education was a waste of the taxpayer's money. But in the last almost 30 years, I have contributed many times over in taxes what the government invested in me. In fact, they made a killing in principle and interest.

(chuckle)

Perhaps I missed the part where I posted how other people should stop doing the very things that I enjoy doing while I continue on, noname.

It's either hypocrisy or ignorance. Which do you claim, and does it change anything now that you know?

I don't care how long your trips are, what percent diesels account for, what Dan's plane does, what fringes you live on, or where you work. You said X but do Y. Simple as that. And then you somehow try to bring my toys into it when you get called on it. Wow.

I'm a fan of folks not meddling, period.

---

Yvonne, I'll let Dan address your contradictory pocketbook/concession flaw if he chooses, but I'll stick with what was flung towards my post.

"And we can usually find documentation to fit in whatever way we think"

Very true, very true. Most people don't, however, use Wikipedia. Not if they want to be taken seriously, at least. Here's the link you left out of your post, Yvonne:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle

Most people with any grasp of data and research would use a more reliable source. EPA work for you?

http://www.epa.gov/OMS/regs/roadbike/420f03045.pdf

(2003)
Are motorcycles a less-polluting alternative to cars and SUVs?
In fact, motorcycles produce more harmful emissions per mile than a car, or even a large SUV. The current federal motorcycle standard for hydrocarbon emissions is about 90 times the hydrocarbon standard for today’s passenger cars.
(end quote)

This isn't even particularly debatable. It would be like me chiming in on a patient-care issue by providing a link to something I have no real experience with. But Wikipedia said it, so I can participate. Easiest winning point? The vast majority of motorcycles on the road (and off) don't have catalytic converters and are carburetored. You do understand what that means pollution-wise, right?

Even so, you might want to hurry up and write a letter to the California Air Resources Board to let them know that Wikipedia says their research is wrong.

And please keep up. I posted on pollution because motorcycles are specifically mentioned as an interest by someone complaining about other people polluting and making "sacrifices," and it showed the do-as-I-say mentality that's so prevalent these days.

(PS- noname, if it's a two-stroke 250 then it's even funnier)

"A" for effort, though, and definitely worth a "Participant" trophy.

So motorcycles reduce oil use and emit crappier stuff.

I wonder what the amount of emissions saved by using less oil are in the life cycle of the oil...drilling for it, transporting it, refining it, transporting it. I wonder....

"Geez, to hear you tell it you are the only one that pays taxes."

Never said anything close to that, in fact I often cite how much more those who earn more than me have to pay. I often cite that many of those who have their taxes conveniently withheld from their paychecks don't realize how much they pay.

You are self-employed, do you write your quarterly checks to the IRS and NCDOR? Do you pay your entire SS?

*************************************************

"Why would you book flights if you have your own plane?"

It would take awhile to get to Denver or Dallas at 110 mph. I would also use much more fuel than the cost of an airline ticket. I'll cut you some slack as you likely don't know much about aviation.

*************************************************
"My point being that if people quit spending their money on material things that aren't really necessary we would all be alot better off. Big business would feel the pinch of a quiet revolution. They would have to reduce the price of their products to get people buying again. But most of all they need to bring our jobs back."

Are you serious or is this in jest?

People right now have quit spending their money on material things and look where the economy is, in the toilet. Big business (and small/medium business) have cut their prices, AND THEY HAVE LAID PEOPLE OFF!!! Millions of people out of work because less people are buying their products even at reduced prices. Look at homes, cars, travel, electronics, all are less expensive now and still people are not buying hence other people are losing their jobs. Does that make us all a lot better off?

That in itself is worth a trophy.

************************************************

"From where I sit looks like you put yourself in that position, with all your planes and boats and vehicles and fine house or houses.."

Assumptive thought is entertaining. Perhaps you missed my previous post in the last week or so. My boat is over 20 years old and my airplane is over 40 years old. The property taxes on both make up a very small portion of the total taxes I pay. Our home, singular, is very modest in size.

**************************************************

"I clearly remember you defiantly telling me and JDR as long as you could afford to put gas in your airplane, your boat and your SUV, you would continue to waste (naturally, waste is my word) gas..."

Yes waste is your word, so is defiantly. I use a car or SUV to get somewhere. In fact I bought a small car last year that gets 37-40 mpg. as my primary transportation and would venture to say that it is kinder on the environment than noname's motorcycle.

Roger sums it up best:

I'm a fan of folks not meddling, period.

This is especially pertinent to you Yvonne, as you claim I am always meddling with the "choice" of aborting a child. Pro-choice, remember?

Yet you and noname seem to have a huge problem with people like me who 'choose' to own an airplane and a boat.

Same hypocrisy, but not as bad, as algore telling everyone to turn down the thermostat and use public transportation while he lives in an energy inefficient mansion and flies on private jets.

You and noname live your lives as you see fit, I will do the same. I'm pro-choice on that.

Sorry bout your Wufpack today rahrah, they put up a good fight.

Whatever that spark is that good teams have, the Pack just doesn't have it. They didn't have it last year, and if Sidney Lowe returns as coach next year, they probably won't have it again.

Football on the other hand.......41-10.

The Heels are not famous for football but at least they got into a bowl game and lost by a respectable margin.

My son and I are watching the Hurricanes now, it's amazing how they convert that facility from a basketball court to a hockey rink, or vice versa, in a matter of hours. Good 'ol NCSU engineering prowess I suppose.

Dan,

You and Roger are operating on the same double standard. It is OK for you to try to marginalize, meddle and post about things that have absolutely nothing to do with you. I have never known of either of you to refrain from butting in. I have not ever tried to prevent you or Roger from joining in as this is an open forum. Where do you or he get off trying to prevent me or anyone else from posting in any thread that is found in this forum?

Roger,

Your info came from 2003, mine from 2007. You can feel free to try to marginalize my post, even be superior and condescending in your typical way. However, this is an open forum and I will comment about anything I choose to, not what you think I should. What a pompous statement you have made.

"Where do you or he get off trying to prevent me or anyone else from posting in any thread that is found in this forum?"

Rough day??? Who on earth is trying to prevent anyone from posting in this forum? Welcome aboard Yvonne, post all you want, neither Roger nor I are in charge of this forum, the would be Mr. Johnson.

I forgot, Dan, to mention you missed the point of my post again. I could care less about your house, your boat, your airplane, your SUV, any material thing you possess. But I do worry about your soul.

"I could care less about your house, your boat, your airplane, your SUV, any material thing you possess."

Good, then no need to bring it up again. Unless, of course, you want to go flying someday. We've flown to Siler City and borrowed the airport car to go to Johnson's and get a burger. Best burgers in the world. I'll be glad to take you up.

"But I do worry about your soul."

Don't worry about me, worry more about those who participate in ending lives in utero. That may exceed sinfulness more than using extra petoleum.

petroleum

I think more people have died and more nations have been overtaken for bananas than for petrol. It's also very possible that the banana industry has had a larger impact on the environment than the oil industry has as well. I don't eat the little yellow devils.

back to the motorcycle issue, They not only use less gas but it takes less energy and materials to produce a motorcycle.

about your airplane, if it is over 40 years old it is considered an antique thus raising it value, not lowering it. BTW what kind of plane is it? I do know a little about airplanes as my husband has a pilots license and used to own a plane of his own, a vagabond, and his best friend owns a Brusard. I'm not totally illerate about such things, I was trying to make a point. It's not only your vehicles and toys that you pay tax on but all the little gadgets and unnecessary items you purchase that make up the bulk of the taxes you pay, well if it's so much of a burden on you to pay, quit spending so much!! simple as that. Do we really need to have all the luxuries? NO we don't. Surprise you can survive without cell phones, suv's, televisions, computers, (and before you go making some stupid remark about me being on the computer, yes, I am guilty of being on the computer, it's my only form of communication, most of the time.) Ipods, bluetooths, and all the rest of the crap we are told we should have and buy.

We need to stop giving in to corporate America and lining the pockets of the already filthy rich by buying items that are harmful to the environment and to us as well, and costing us millions in taxes and health care costs. Fantasy I suppose and I don't guess I will ever see it happening cuz you can't get 10 people to agree about anything let alone create a revolution, for change.

Middle class America has been brain washed into thinking they need all these neat little gadgets and items that are mostly hype and a way for the rich to get richer at the expense of unsuspecting people that don't have enough sense to see through the media hype and advertisement. We don't need all the junk to survive. Do all your material possessions make you happy and fulfilled? Probably not.

I guess you are REALLY feeling the crunch since your wife isn't bringing in a paycheck, geez you might have to make some sacrifices anyway if she can't get back to work soon. Duh.

We don't care what you own but we do get tired of you gloating about having them and complaining about the taxes you have to pay for owning them.

Just a reminder for all. If you would take the time to estimate how much you pay in, income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, use taxes and fees.
You might be suprised how much of your wages the "Guvmints" are taking.

Yvonne you said "I do not know of any president or Congress within my lifetime that has not wasted money hand over fist except Jimmy Carter. It remains to be seen if Obama will be the second."

Do you really believe he can be second, with his first week in office , wanting to throw away $1.17 trillion on one pork bill? Then adding maybe he'll need and extra $350 billion for last year's boondogogle.

ghost,

I believe in the possibility of most things. Call me foolish if you like, but I believe one person can make a difference. Collectively, all those one persons could accomplish astronomical feats. All my opinion, of course.

If you have ever stopped to reflect on the difference you, yourself, have made in the lives of others, you know what I am talking about. One person can make a difference and I believe most of us try to make a positive difference.

There are exceptions to everything. Last week, while at my sister's house (for the funeral of my last remaining uncle), her grandson stole money from my sister-in-law's and my purse, plus an almost full bottle of Vicodin that I had in my overnight case. I have kept the Vicodin there since I got the rx. filled almost two years ago. I had used three out of the bottle of thirty. Thus I know, first hand, about exceptions. (My great-nephew is the same one I have posted about before. He has been in trouble since he was 11. At 17 now, he is a blatant criminal.)

You husband owned an airplane? What did you do, make him get rid of it to save the planet?

The Vagabond was made in the late 40's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_PA-15_Vagabond

Most 60's vintage airplanes are not considered antiques. As you may know airplanes will practically last forever as long as they are maintained. That includes flying them often, yes using gas, as engines will rust internally after extended periods of non use.

*************************************************

"We don't care what you own but we do get tired of you gloating about having them and complaining about the taxes you have to pay for owning them."

1) You were the one who brought it up, not me. The first mention of 'toys' came up in your 10:45 am post, and 'plane' in your 2:49 post.

2) As mentioned prior, the property taxes but a drop in the bucket, they pale in comparison to fed, state and SS taxes.

*************************************************
"Surprise you can survive without cell phones, suv's, televisions, computers,..."

Maybe you can in your business but I have to keep in touch with my clients all the time and couldn't do that w/o the cell and laptop. However I do not need the latest Blackberry gadget, etc. I have a cell phone that simply makes phone calls. It has a camera as you can't find them without anymore but I never use it.

I'll go with you on Ipods, don't care to have one. As for TV, to each his/her own. I look forward to watching the Superbowl tonight.

*********************************************

"Just a reminder for all. If you would take the time to estimate how much you pay in, income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, use taxes and fees."

I wish each and every taxpayer would do that ghost, perhaps some attitudes would change.

I've posted this before but it was so jawdropping here 'tis again. Once I asked a coworker at the time what percentage he paid in taxes. Response: "I didn't pay any taxes last year as I got a refund check".

noname, it seems to me that you are often assuming and frequently unreasonable.

I mean, while most would agree that Dan has many flaws (☺), there's no need to continuously goad the guy for them.

Anyone else notice how everyone seems especially testy this weekend? What's collectively going on? Is it the sea kittens?

---

rahrah,

"I wonder what the amount of emissions saved by using less oil are in the life cycle of the oil...drilling for it, transporting it, refining it, transporting it. I wonder...."

As always, everything is a trade-off. There would likely be less oil/emissions immediately consumed/produced at the point of production by using motorcycles, but with a trade of more injuries. Something like four times more injuries if I remember correctly, and twice the deaths. Not necessarily more wrecks, but a 5-10mph rear-ending becomes much more than a here's-my-insurance situation. And which is worth more to the general public, oil savings or safety (they're already indicating, but for the sake of discussion)?

Motorcycles use oil in their own special ways, too. My BSA pollutes just sitting in the garage...

Not to mention the things I love to ponder:
A common traffic backup on I-40, and someone rear-ends someone else during the wait. What would be a minor fender bender in cars is a medical crisis for a car/bike scenario. Traffic slows and backs up even farther, effectively negating any fuel savings the single motorcycle might have provided in the Big Picture. The presence of the motorcycle is probably directly responsible for *more* oil use and emissions because of surges in traffic up to and past the wreck, plus increased immediate environmental pollution from consumables (brakes, tires- both deceleration friction and road friction, etc.)

I have a similar interest in "savings" of bicycles. At least motorcycles can keep up (and then some) with traffic flow. If I were younger and pursuing a higher degree I'd research supposed energy savings and likely increased pollution/road wear caused by individual cyclists on crowded roads.

http://blog.news-record.com/opinion/letters/archives/2008/06/paving_delay_would_cost_more_i.shtml

No Dan I didn't make him get rid of his plane, he had it before we met and actually he had to sell it to bury his first wife when she died of cancer!!!!

Again, noname, as much as I enjoy the topic, the point wasn't motorcycles. Or airplanes. It was:

You shouldn't _____ , but I'm going to.

I'll try again. It's either hypocrisy or ignorance. Which do you claim, and does it change anything now that you know?

Either one might tend a more introspective type towards not constantly telling other people how to enjoy their life.

"Your info came from 2003, mine from 2007."

An acute observation as always, Yvonne. Again, very true, very true. Your Wikipedia citation is definitely dated 2007, and I'll vouch for the antique-ness of the EPA fact sheet. 2003? Gosh, I wouldn't be surprised to find the original etched out in cuneiform in some ancient legislator's tomb.

Yvonne, any idea how often the EPA revises an issued FRM?

Any idea what an FRM is without googling?

Don't worry, my dear. As long as you're willing to chime in and cite Wikipedia, you're perfectly capable of marginalizing yourself. No one else need do a thing. But since you brought it up,

http://www.bts.gov/publications/state_transportation_statistics/state_transportation_statistics_2006/html/fast_facts.html

one can only wonder how many of the 6.2 million (with an "m") registered motorcycles were bought in 2007. Oh, wait, we don't have to wonder. Those numbers exist through the dealer network.

http://www.dealernews.com/dealernews/Columnists%2FMike+Vaughan/By-the-Numbers/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/508996

It was 685,249. Remember, there are 6.2 million registered bikes, and that's just on-road. Not ATVs, not dirt bikes, not scooters. Just things that need tags to travel on highways.

Now look again at your '07 (again, no argument that it certainly occurred after 2003) numbers:
3863 motorcycles were tested.
2092 had catalytic converters.

Read your Wikipedia quote from which you painted all bikes. 54% had cats? You're making a statement on **all** motorcycle pollution (6.5M bikes) and you're using an unrealistic sample (gasp! from Wikipedia? Imagine my surprise) of a certification study for your "we all have our agendas" post?

What was yours, btw? Does it seem as easy now?

And even if 50% of the 685,249 bikes sold in '07 had cats (catalytic converters = less pollution), that's still only 5% of the total on-road bikes registered. Even when upping the percentage by 50% to account for calculation errors (early adoption, etc.), that means there are still 5,686,063 bikes running without cats.

Five million, six hundred eighty six thousand and sixty three. And we haven't even started counting scooters, ATVs, dirt-bikes, etc.

As I said, please contact CARB and let them know they're wrong. You might even want to cc ACS' Environmental Science and Technology and tell them Vasic and Weilenmann were completely off-base because Wikipedia had this sentence and it said...

I'm sure they accept that source for peer review all the time.

Oh, by the way, I looked at the .txt files cited and linked in the Wikipedia sentence from '07. Again, definitely newer than '03, no argument there, verified the date myself. Pretty impressive findings as well. Would you do me a favor and give me your take on it? This my field, so technical terms are fine.

---

Neat how these threads evolve, eh?

"Either one might tend a more introspective type towards not constantly telling other people how to enjoy their life."

You summed it up eloquently again Roger.

I also see noname's argument as

"I don't ______, so you shouldn't either."

*************************************************
Thanks for the half ass support rahrah ☺

as for rbennet and the things he likes to ponder. I have encountered less accidents involving motorcycles than autos and trucks, I have traveled the roads quite a bit in my day, and it's not necessarily the motorcycles that cause the problem it's the other drivers that just aren't paying attention.

rahrah: Dan needs a little down pegging once in a while, he thinks far too highly of himself.

for everybody sorry I'm a little testy today I have had a headache for 4 weeks straight as a result of a traffic accident involving cars mind you. No motorcycles, but your comments about injury being worse when riding a bike is true, I have often thought what would have happened if we had been on the bike that day.

Forgot to mention noname, your husband should have convinced his former wife to be cremated and sprinkled her ashes from 5000 ft. over a mountaintop at sunset.

It would have saved land space (and expense) for burial, much more eco friendly, and he could have kept the plane.

"he thinks far too highly of himself" heh heh

I hope you do feel better noname, sincerely.

from where I sit: Dan and rbennet are the ones that judge and try to tell people to do as I say and not as I do, because "I'm not going to give up one damn thing for the good of anybody, even if it does cause ill effect on myself down the road." is the attitude of both of you. I don't say "you shouldn't do this or that" and then do it myself, I practice what I preach, I do have to conform to certain modes of transportation simply because modern times dictate it, but I try to do so as seldom as possible. I don't own a bunch of electronic gadgets, yes I have a computer, we both use it for business and communication. I don't waste and I keep my pollution to a minumum, if everybody did that this would be a lot cleaner and more healthy world.

Dan is right I do think that alot of people need to do as I do about ecology and going green. I'm not the only one who thinks this, there are many out there who feel as I do.

Dan it's illegal to scatter ashes . Not my concern she was before me, as for my husband when he died of cancer also he was creamated and his urn sits in my bedroom.

"from where I sit: Dan and rbennet are the ones that judge and try to tell people to do as I say and not as I do, because.."

vs

"Dan is right I do think that alot of people need to do as I do about ecology and going green."

I'm confused. But oh well, it's been fun.

"Dan it's illegal to scatter ashes"

Apparently not everywhere. I never knew this cottage industry existed.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=aerial+ash+scattering&aq=0&oq=aerial+ash+

there is that little element of "do as I say not as I do" as opposed to "do as I do" don't understand the confusion on that one. I am trying to set an example for all you youngsters out there but if you choose not to follow that is your perogative but some day you will look back on this when you have your oxygen mask over your face or you are dying of, or worse yet your kids are dying of respiratory illness and realize that I was right. There is more incidence of asthma, copd and lung cancer than ever before, and it is due to pollution plain and simple. We all have to chip in and do what's right for the good of our planet and generations to come.

noname,

Dan has actually mellowed somewhat over the years. He tries harder to see most things from a different perspective. Five years ago, he would not have conceded an inch on his positions. He defended Bush tooth and nail, had less sympathy for the poor and down-trodden, expressed that people were poor because they didn't try hard enough and wasted money on trivial stuff, made a lot of judgments.

Trust me when I say I like the more mature Dan a whole lot better. He still jerks my chain at times. However, now when we argue, we can find a place to lay down our differences and be cordial, at least for a while. And as I said on another thread, I think he is basically a good man.

I wish I could say that about everyone who posts here but I'd be lying. Some extract their fun for the day at the expense of others. To me, that is a sign of cruelty. (Disclaimer: I am not talking about you) With that being said, I still defend everyone's right to say what's in their hearts.

You are right about us killing our children with pollution, noname. I've been saying that for years. We are also sealing their fates with regard to diabetes, cancer, heart disease and mental illness with all the additives to foods and liquids. Steroid-ladened meats and milk make up a chunk of those additives.

I understand what you are saying about Dan, he can be a bit pompus at times, I guess I can be too. He has his opinions, I have mine. As long as we can maintain a common ground sometimes, I'm happy.

Yes, we are leaving our children with alot on their plate , pardon the pun, with all the additives in our food. Did you know that there is plastic in your American cheeses and margarines? That's what gives it it's consistancy. Did you know that it is not just food but toxic additives in your clothes soaps and body soaps and lotions, and makeup,that are absorbed into the skin? Many are causing cancer. The skin is the largest organ in the human body and it absorbs more toxins than one might think.

Now to Dan I would like to apologize to you for several cheap shots I took at you today. I should learn to be more tolerant and patient. Hope all is forgiven. don't like to end the day on a sour note. Hope you are enjoying the game I'm rooting for Pittsburg.

Well you two ladies have dissected 'ol Dan to your liking, the good, bad and ugly. Sorry I jerk your chain at times Yvonne, but that's my job non? You too noname.

Let me say I have respect for your beliefs even though I don't share some of them. I try to remain cordial, not use profanity or derogatory names and even employ a bit of humor.

We are after all fellow Americans. If Yvonne would ever get crankin and invite us to her B&B I'd be glad to attend and feel certain that we'd have a good time.

Time to watch that damn lib Springsteen :-)

noname, basing opinions on "feelings" and what you've "encountered" is what's gotten us into our current anti-science position.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/Rpts/2006/810606.pdf

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/motosafety.html

Statistics exist. Numbers, not feelings. Thanks for at least trying to respond, though, and not just crying out about cruelty when BS is called.

Another fact as you've already noted regarding motorcycle pollution Roger, this from an eco-friendly site:

http://ecomodder.com/blog/motorcycles-scooters-great-environment-wrong/

"Scooters and motorcycles can pollute 90 times as much as SUVs"

"If you’re a diehard environmentalist you’re going to want to stay away from scooters."

Looks like I'm protecting the environment with my SUV more than noname is with here motorcycle.

"...and not just crying out about cruelty when BS is called."

Cheap shot, Roger, dear. I would have thought that was beneath you, especially since you don't meddle. Had trouble with paranoia for some time or is this a new condition for you? Just about anyone on this blog could tell you about whom I was making my comment. I had in mind at least three people who post here, and have been posting a lot longer than you. However, I am sure you think you are right about whom I was referring to as you pride yourself on being right 100% of the time.

And still no response to my post.

I like you, Yvonne, but there was a thread going. You chose to divert it.

And are still choosing to divert the conversation away from your written stance, apparently, and adding insults to boot.

Classy.

Enjoy the last word. Might I suggest an on-topic one defending your previously stated position against presented facts?