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1) Do innocent hostages usually elect the bank gunmen, noting particularly during those elections that the bank gunmen don't recognize the police department's right to exist?

What a flawed analogy you make.

2) Are you one of the moderate Muslims that we're repeatedly told really are out there?

If so, why aren't you pushing hard to stop the Palestinian rocket fire before telling Israel how they shouldn't be responding to stop it themselves? Thanks for writing how you "don't condone" it, but why is your LTE directed at Israel's *response*?

Are you afraid the, ahem, "frustration" will be pointed at you?

Nice last sentence. Which side am I quoting here- "there is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by jihad"?

Did you realize that Hamas is funded by the UN.
How many innocent people have been killed by Hamas. War is ugly.
Less see if I understand, Hamas fires rockets in to Israel, Israel is supposed to let their people be killed and ignore it!
I have never read that Israel wanted to wipe out Palestinian. Hamas has made it clear they want to wipe out Israel and the USA.
Much like 9/11 , I have never heard the Arabs speak out about the terrorist.

Forgot, Obama wants to give millions more to UN to fund Hamas, even MSNBC said this.

This from the terrorist cowards who hide underneath the skirts of schoolchildren and fire their rockets indiscriminately at Israel:

"As fighting intensified on the northern outskirts of Gaza City today, a top Hamas leader broke cover to warn Israel that the Islamists would kill Jewish children anywhere in the world in revenge for their own young who have died in the devastating assault.
“They have legitimised the murder of their own children by killing the children of Palestine,” said Mahmoud Zahar, in a televised broadcast recorded at a secret location. “They have legitimised the killing of their people all over the world by killing our people.”

That 'secret location' most likely underneath the schoolhouse where children are used as human shields. And how does a coward 'break cover' from a 'secret location'? The media in action.

Go Israel. At least they have the sack to ignore the best friend a terrorist ever had...the UN.

PS: Thank you, Jimmy Carter.

"I don’t condone the rocket fire by Hamas, but I understand the frustration of the people."

Me too, I can understand the frustration of the Israeli people. Months of having rockets rained down upon their citizens became too much for their govt. to take.

Excellent dismantling of the author's analogy Roger. This is the 'government' that the Palestinians elected. What's that old saying....oh yeah....be careful of what you ask for, you might get it.

I also see a problem with Israel’s response to Hamas rockets; THEY ARE NOT RETALIATING ENOUGH. Israel cannot stop and should not stop until the UN stops allowing and supporting Hamas firing over 3000 rockets a year into Israel.

Hello. I wrote the primary letter that Juma was responding to, so I'll answer here:

1. I did not characterize Keefe's cartoon as antisemitic; I said it was antisemitic IF Keefe was applying this standard only to Israel and to no other nation. If Juma had actually bothered to read my letter, this would have been obvious. I stand by this - the indicator of antisemitism is a double standard.

2. The conclusion that Israel is attempting to wipe out the Palestinian civilian population is ludicrous. Actually, the Israelis are attempting to avoid killing civilians. This is difficult because a primary tactic of Hamas (and of Hezbollah in Lebanon) is the use of human shields - launching rockets, mortars, etc. from densely populated areas (or, in one case, a UN hospital) in the hope that the Israeli response will kill civilians and generate a public outcry. In that respect, Palestinian civilians are worth more to Hamas dead than alive. This is in stark contrast to Israel, who will typically release a couple of hundred prisoners in exchange for a couple of hostages.

If the Israelis wanted to kill Palestinian civilians, they could do so way cheaper, easier, and safer than what they're doing now. Instead of sending eighty jets to bomb sites so carefully as to manage to keep civilian deaths to 25% of the total (a feat nearly physically impossible from the air in densely populated areas where Hamas is intentionally mingled with the civilian population), they could have simply carpet bombed. Israel gets such bad international press anyway that it wouldn't have made a great deal of difference in terms of coverage - the costs in international outcry would have been negligibly different from what they are now.

If you're going to make accusations of genocide (which is fashionable to do against Jews because of the irony involved), at least pay attention to events on the ground. It's easy to see a lot of dead civilians on TV and conclude that they've been targeted because the conclusion matches what you already want to believe; just as it's easy to see a letter to the editor that's critical of a cartoon, see the word "antisemitic" and conclude that I'm claiming that any criticism of Israel constitutes antisemitism without bothering to pay attention to the content of my letter. I am not a knee-jerk Israeli apologist - I think the settlements are a terrible idea and I favor more rights for Israeli Muslims. However, in this case, Israel is right.

We seem to talk about the civilian casualty cost of a war as something introduced by the relatively recent terrorist tactic of embedding themselves into residential areas. In history, however, the noble clash of armed warriors on a seperate battlefield is the exception more than the rule -- starting with the Bible's accounts of the slaughtering of innocents and running throughout the next several centuries.

I think we prefer the illusion of a professional army doing our bidding without the spilling of blood back home. Though that is exactly what we seem to have pulled off with our wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the more consistent truth can be found in our history of the Cherokee Trail of Tears, Sherman's march through the South, Wounded Knee, the fire bombing of Dresden, the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the bombing of Hanoi, the My Lai Massacre, and the Blackwater shooting deaths in Baghdad.

The fact that this dreadful loss of non-combatants
sickens our soul when we confront it is the only hope we have that those who begin these wars will find some way to end them. Otherwise we would just come to enjoy war too much.

It is way past time for the "moderate" Arabs to speak out about the violence. Isreal is not going to disappear no matter how much they want it to. Hamas and other similar groups gain their power from hatred and violence. The killing that is taking place now is exactly what Hamas wanted. Isreal is just doing a better job than what Hamas may have expected. Isreal has been trying to move forward to peace and can't be blamed for acting to stop the artillery and missle fire from Gaza.

One theme should be apparent to everyone; if you shoot at Isreal long enough they will blow you away.

"One theme should be apparent to everyone; if you shoot at Isreal long enough they will blow you away."

True, but it takes them awhile. We wouldn't, I hope, put up with incessant rocket attacks on our domestic territory. Of course we did have attacks on our troops in Saudi and the USS Cole, our embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam were bombed and we didn't do much about it.

It will be interesting to see the reaction of our govt. to this situation in 10 days.

Off to Charlotte for the game, GO PANTHERS!!

It's CLEARLY and Absolutely ... 100% THEIR fault.

Just like it was Iraq's fault we attacked them. If they had not repeatedly hurled rockets at the US, we would not have had to defend ourselves against them. Yes, indeed, it is always the other guy's fault.

Just like it was Iraq's fault we attacked them. If they had not repeatedly hurled rockets at the US, we would not have had to defend ourselves against them. Yes, indeed, it is always the other guy's fault.

War is hell, is it not?

If America had not imposed eminent domain and subdued the indigent population, we would be small disconnected provinces of various European countries.

The war for Southern Independence was necessarily bloody- there was an absolute imperative that the country remained united, regardless of the cost.

Dresden was a manufacturing center.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen to shock the Japanese people into the realization that the imperialistic designs of their god-king were over.

I agree with your example of My Lai, although it would probably not have occurred if the morons in DC had allowed the generals in-country to prosecute the war.
Last I heard, all of the Blackwater operatives had not been tried or convicted.

The loss of one life to aggression is regrettable, but to paint Israel (or to use this as a pretext to bash America) as the evil aggressor is despicable. War is not a tit-for-tat game. It is an act of self preservation, and Israel knows how to fight a war.

I wonder what all of you would do, If I came over and kicked you off your property and let my family live there. Imagine if you had no police to call, no military to defend you, and only a rotten stick to defend yourself.
What would you do? Would you fight back? Would you run and hide? Would you throw rocks at me? Then when you did fight back, I beat the daylights out of you.... Then what? You have had your land stolen, your dignity destroyed, your family has nothing. What would you do? would you make alcohol bombs and throw them at me when I was no looking? Be careful how you would respond....... you might become something you are condeming. What do you see the rest of the world doesn't. Every country denounces what Israel is doing except the US. What are we missing? Or maybe, what don't you get.

W.J.

It was not my intent to bash America in citing those campaigns in which civilians lost their lives when we went to war. Quite the contrary, what I was trying to point out was how inevitable that was in the majority of cases.

Nor was I painting Israel as the evil aggressor, and its difficult for me to understand how you would come to that conclusion. In fact I tend to agree with the many contributors of this thread who have concluded that their retaliation is just.

Our challenge is to go into history without the passion and bias of current events and come away with lessons of how mankind behaves in given situations-- and to learn from that.

Not easy.

"You have had your land stolen, your dignity destroyed, your family has nothing."

Ah yes, the old "Israel stole the Palestinian's land" talking point/excuse.

It's been a long time since I heard that particular little canard.

Israel did not create the "Palestinian" problem. The surrounding Arab states created the "Palestinian" problem in 1948 by asking Arabic to leave the UN created state of Israel, in order that Israel might more easily be wiped off the face of the earth.

Obviously, that didn't happen.

Revisionist history is a marvelous thing, is it not?

"You have had your land stolen, your dignity destroyed, your family has nothing."

Ah yes, the old "Israel stole the Palestinian's land" talking point/excuse.

It's been a long time since I heard that particular little canard.

Israel did not create the "Palestinian" problem. The surrounding Arab states created the "Palestinian" problem in 1948 by asking Arabic people to leave the UN created state of Israel, in order that Israel might more easily be wiped off the face of the earth.

Obviously, that didn't happen.

Revisionist history is a marvelous thing, is it not?

Bubba, where did Israel get the rest of their land since 1948, then in 1967, then in 2000? If land is not the issue, why don't they move their borders back to where they were in 1967 or 1948? Oh that's right, the JEWS can do whatever they want and the hell with everyone else? BS! The only reason they are in existance today is because of the US........ If you go to the United Nations website, there have been so many resolutions on this issue, and they ignore them!!!! Israel does what it wants, when it wants, and we still give them money. When they were at war with Lebanon a few years back, Pres. Bush said they needed to stop, did they? NO!!! Why should tax dollars go to a country we support but does not listen to anyone. We should stop giving them BILLIONS and get them off our welfare system and see if they survive without us. Give the billions back to the American paople where it belongs and help our own economy instead of funding theirs.

David
If Israel were to move their borders back to where they were in 1948, how does that change the fact that Hamas and Iran doesn't think Israel should exist at all? So your argument is weak. Nothing will satisfy Hamas and Iran (and other nut case Arabs) but the total destruction of Israel.

Let's face it: Israel is taking action against the terrorists now because come Jan. 20 they know not what the opinion polls will tell the little messiah to do.
A Kenyan born muslim in the white house does not bode well for their national security.