News-Record.com

"These are the people who most claim that they are doing “the work of the Lord.” But in reality they show the lost of this world anything but why Christ came to us."

Hateful Christians that don't see the contradictions in what they're saying and doing are undercutting the work of the Lord.

Folks like Dobson and Robertson say: send your money to the Lord...............

But they give their address.

Well written letter.

I guess Jackson, Sharpton and Wright get a pass on their "work of the lord" and their "lust for power" Mr. Knight.

OT,

Nobody should get a pass. Anytime anyone uses Christ to incite people to hate they should be called on it.

my point exactly, people who hide behind their religion in order to gain power (and not just political power mind you) are more vile than any nonreligious person, their use of religion is a sham, (I would think in the christian world this should be a mortal sin, but according to them this is ok, it's being done "in the name of the lord") but yet ignorant and unaware, naive persons follow like little sheep and never question authority. This is wrong. We have all been brain washed into thinking that if a minister, priest, or political figure says it, it has to be true and they will go to any length to follow and believe. Including the recruitment of new followers. and continue to send their hard earned money to greedy pastors, making them super rich, and getting nothing in return. Just because the bible says you have to tithe to a church. If you want to see your money really help someone give it to the Salvation Army or Good will or better yet seek out a homeless person and give them a motel room for a week , buy them some food or clothing. Stop being an enabler to these phony religious leaders.
What ever happened to the seven deadly sins in the old testament, aparently they have been forgotten in leiu of , money, over indulgence, greed, hunger for power over others, lazyness, and a desire to obtain all the material objects they worship. Money being number one on the list. Again the christian world is a do as I say not as I do scenario. Heck nobody even lives by the ten commmandments anymore why should they concern themselves with a list of wrong doing in the old testament.

"...and continue to send their hard earned money to greedy pastors, making them super rich,..."

Rufus & OT left out the most famous pastor of 2008, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Upon retirement he landed himself a $1.6 million, 10,000 sq. ft. house in a gated community. Praise be to Jesus.

No one lives by the 10 commandments? Wrong!
The Bible says give 10% to the church. Not some charity. Its up to my church to help people. If you would take time to check out some of the salaries of these so called charities, you may be supprized! Then check out the salaries for the salvation army workers. very worth while charity. Over taxed you are right, you will never see a letter critizing the other side! Just look at the Jackson, in the Duke case. Then tell me one paper that went after him!

Dan,

Celebrity Preacher is a contradiction in terms.

Wright is a self centered parody of a preacher. I suspect he once (like all of the folks mentioned) did much good work but has fallen to his own celebrity.

Talented men do themselves much harm by reading and believing their own press clippings.

A little humility would do all of them (and us) much good.

From the earlier thread:
"I sat by and watched as high profile religious leaders bled their congregations dry financially for their own gain and realized that it was all a sham to make themselves rich, not caring one iota about the people in their congregation."

From this one:
"but yet ignorant and unaware, naive persons follow like little sheep and never question authority... We have all been brain washed into thinking that if a minister, priest, or political figure says it, it has to be true and they will go to any length to follow and believe. Including the recruitment of new followers. and continue to send their hard earned money to greedy pastors, making them super rich, and getting nothing in return"

Well said, noname.

And with your eyes as opened as they are to the habit, hopefully you can see the similarities in the high prophets and leaders of the global warming movement.

Be it Gore's jets and huge homes, or Obama's jets and huge rented mansion in Hawaii, there is no difference.

I'd be curious who you voted for...

"Stop being an enabler to these phony religious leaders." Amen.

---

Good to see your LTE, Christopher.

to TDBB: I don't care who you are no one and I mean NO ONE lives by all the ten commandments!! But more importantly NO ONE lives by the rules of the seven deadly sins as stated in the old testament. If you question that just look around you. Greed, Jealousy, Lazyness, Gluttony (probably the most ignored of all), Lust, Powerhunger, these rules were set down as a guide for everyday living that could be carried into the future. But very few live by these rules on the contrary these are the wrongdoings that are committed most frequently by people who claim to be christian.
As for leaving all charity work up to the churches is fine but I suspect there are still alot of homeless, helpless people that aren't being helped. We all have to step up to the plate and do our part.
I personally know of a man that has lived under a bridge on Lee Street here in Greensboro, for years now, I don't see alot of people helping him, altho, I have on occasion (when I could afford it) given him food and money. I try to help my fellow man in ways that don't necessarily engage money as the means of assistance.
I don't get your comment about various charities, the two I mentioned really do help the needy. I realize that there are greedy charities just as there are greed ministers and churches. I will not contribute to them.

noname,

Your prejudice and unabashed hate is unvarnished and childish- I commend you on that. Jesus said to the Laodiceans- those who are lukewarm will be "spit out". You are a fine example of the cold ones.

In every post I have read of yours, you paint all apostles with a broad brush, as though you know of the works of every follower of Christ. I submit you know nothing, and that millions of true Christians do God's work without seeking admiration or approval (PR) from the world.

Before you continue your hateful preaching, be aware that most, if not all, Christians have been brought to Jesus by rejecting the hatred you and your kind spout.

I have news for you! Greed, avarice , wrath, etc. are practiced by the un-religious as well as the religious- if you knew what was required of a Christian by the Prince of Peace, you would understand just how short-sighted you are. All crimes against God and man start in the heart. If you so hate those who choose to believe, your heart is open to anything.

When blaming those who cite Scripture as a justification of committing sins, remember, even satan quotes scripture.

to WJ of course you are going to quote the bible as you have no words of your own to bring forth.
I am not cold to the things that matter most to this earth, preserving it for all you self righteous christians to thump your bible and judge those who do not believe as you do. I do not hate christians or any other religious sect, as a whole, what I do resent is those who think they are the chosen ones who must convert the world. I love people based on their sincere nature and respect for others and Mother Earth.
It is the christian missionaries who have gone to countries, including America, 600 years ago, where the tribes were living in harmony with the earth and took them from their environment and stripped them of their customs and beliefs forcing westernization, "progress" and christianity upon the poor unsuspecting natives who were told they were wrong for going naked or "worshiping false gods". what makes you all think that these people needed or wanted your Great Wisdom and religion? and more what makes you think that your religion is the right one to be shoving down these innocent peoples throats anyway? talk about arrogance, that is the height of arrogance as far as I'm concerned. They were not harming the earth, they were not polluting, or over hunting, or raping forests, or wasting precious food and resources, but yet over zealous control freaks, like you, think they need to be saved from themselves. What has happened to these unfortunate people now? most of them live in abject poverty because of their westernization, if they had been left alone they would not be harming the earth and would still be living the way they saw fit for thousands of years. I have seen the harm that christians have caused. All the killing in the name of god whether it be by weapon or forced change.
People like you are the reason that more are leaving religion behind and becomming enlightened.
Just what is it you call god's work? I think my above paragraph sums it up quite nicely.
You have missed the point I make that there are other beliefs and societies besides christianity and there is little respect for that from my experiences with the many christians that I have encountered in my 57 years on this planet. but even more so since I have moved to the "wonderful bible belt". Not everybody in this world wants your christianity shoved down their throat, which I see happening more and more as christians feel their followers dropping by the way side. Humans have a tendency to panic when they loose control their control and their little lambs. Why is that christians think it is ok for them to post bill boards (which is an eyesore in itself) along our roads and highways, and constantly enter their religious beliefs into every conversation, and plaster their biblical quotes on everything from restaurant napkins to egg cartons. would you accept Buddhist, or Muslim, or Hindu, or Wicca or Pagan or even Jewish quotes in your face every day every where you went? Or for many of any of those faiths to constantly trying to convert you? I doubt it. It's only acceptable because it is christian. A wide majority of christians that I have encountered continue to persist with the barrage of bible quotes and chastizments even after I have explained that I am not interested in being converted or listening to your ramblings about how wonderful your religion is, and all the while you are doing things that are not considered christian, such as speaking badly about your neighbor, stealing grapes at the grocery store (just to taste) or using an unsuspecting person for your own gain, or walking over every body you can to climb that ladder of success. and then there are all the believers in god who are in prison for killing, stealing, maming, fraud, shall I go on. Your religion is a myth and a superstition, if you are not intelligent enough to think for yourself that is your problem but I myself happen to be smarter than that and refuse to fall for such shams. I do my best to live by the rules of the seven deadly sins but I get enraged when people like you think you have the right to try and convert every person that doesn't believe the way you do or at least chastize them and try to demean them in some form or fashion. or try your best to "put the fear of god in them " at least. What makes you think we are lost souls that must be saved, me thinks you are the ones that need to be saved from yourselves and your superstitious beliefs. You must be southern baptist. your letter was not very christian like if yyou ask me.
As for the seven deadly sins I don't see alot of christians following those rules at all, for many are fat lazy and money and power hungry. and they worship much that has nothing to do with religion, money, cars, fine jewelry, nice homes, all the newest gadgets, gotta have that stuff.

"I do not hate christians or any other religious sect, as a whole, what I do resent is those who think they are the chosen ones who must convert the world. I love people based on their sincere nature and respect for others and Mother Earth."

This ties in with Roger's 10:33 post.

"And with your eyes as opened as they are to the habit, hopefully you can see the similarities in the high prophets and leaders of the global warming movement."

Granted it may be a hassle to deal with Christians attempting to have you convert noname, but you have the option to say "no" and walk away.

I'm not speaking for you per se, but there are people for whom the earth and it's environment are their religion. They are becoming more influential with spokesmen like Algore and likely will be even more influential under the Obama administration.

What they seek is control over the rest of us, conversion I might say. What kind of cars we drive, what kinds of light bulbs we can buy, what kind of toilets we can use, what we can and cannot eat, even the thermostat in your home.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/27/national/main1550028.shtml

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/us/11control.html?_r=3&scp=1&sq=thermostat&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

The only difference is that this 'religion' uses government to do it's work through legislation. Those of us who do not 'believe' do not have an option to say "no" and walk away.

Meanwhile, as Roger mentions, some of the high prophets and leaders of this religion are guilty of the same hypocrisy, self-aggrandizement and feel they are the chosen ones who must convert the world.

One suggestion please noname, please use paragraphs. It's difficult to read a long thread like your previous one without them.

Dan sorry I tend to be a little long winded at times. thanks for the suggestion.

These things that you worry about being imposed upon us all with out any choice in the matter are for the good of the earth and everybody on it. If we don't start conserving now, what kind of world are we leaving to our children and grandchildren. There are already countries where people must breathe through air filters affixed to their faces just to get through the air pollution. Why do you think there is so much respiratory ailment in the world today. It's going to get worse not better if we don't take action now not leave it up to our children and grandchildren to solve.

As in a previous letter that I wrote to the editor, we have lived a life of luxury for way too long and it has done more to harm this earth than it is worth. It's time for all of us to come down from our pedistals and give up a few luxuries for the good of all, not for just a chosen few.

If I do have a religion it is this earth, I do not worship it , for I worship nothing, but I have great respect and reverence for it and try my best to keep my little corner of the world as pollution free as I can, and do not allow myself to succumb to the brain washing techniques of slick advertisers proclaiming that we need all these wasteful products they want to sell us so they can fulfil their need for greed.

BTW it is very hard to say no and walk away from an over zealous christian who follows behind as you walk away screaming bible verses at you and telling you to repent, and chastizing you for not believing. some people can be very persistant. If you think this doesn't happen think again, I have had it happen to me on many occasions. This is just one of the reasons I am so against christians.

No Name, I 100% agree with you on the SA. I suggest you check the salaries are perks of some of the Goodwill, board members in your area.
I am not going to argue whether there is global warming are not. If you read any paper, it reported that October was the second warmest in history. Fact was it was the 70th.
I know of no paper that reported this Al Gore pundit lie.
No Name, you never see me bugging anyone about my religion, I rather live it, and let folks see how it works for me.
No Name, I bet I heard more crap, for praying in a restaurant ( silent) than you heard from any person pushing religion. I ignore it,you should do the same.

TDBB I really doubt that you have heard more crap for praying in a restaurant than I have heard from any person pushing religion. I have seen many people saying their blessing before they eat , I understand it and would never say anything to them for what they do, but I have been bashed in more ways than you can imagine for my beliefs or lack there of. A woman once asked me that even tho I was Atheist I did raise my son christian, didn't I? I was flabbergasted.

A friend of mine insisted several times this holiday season, that because I had put up lights for the holidays that I had to believe in god for only those who believe in god would put up lights at this time of year. how ignorant. I could go on and on about instances of indignation and criticizm and admonishment for my religious preferences.

Rather hard to ignore when it is pushed in your face on a daily basis, by so called friends, neighbors and family.

"These things that you worry about being imposed upon us all with out any choice in the matter are for the good of the earth and everybody on it."

I suppose then that you favor govt. controlling the temperature in a private individuals home.

Again you have railed on, in many cases rightfully so, pastors, etc. in previous threads for their hypocrisy. Do you not see the same regarding those who wish to impose their rules upon us to save the planet from global warming yet they do not 'walk the walk'? In fact they fly around on private jets and live in and/or vacation in mansions. No hypocrisy?

"BTW it is very hard to say no and walk away from an over zealous christian who follows behind as you walk away screaming bible verses at you..."

Where do you find all these zealous Christians? How does the subject of religion come up so frequently with people you meet? I will discuss religion with family and close friends but that's about it. I never discuss it with my clients, neighbors who are not close friends or people I meet in public.

Just in case anyone is playing along at home, some vague misinformation was posted earlier on an off-the-front-page thread painting airplanes as almost "clean." I'm guessing there are some airplane flights enjoyed in addition to electricity use and idle blogging. We're back to the topic on this thread, so this should clear it up.

Yes, airplanes use less lead than they did in the '70s, but they are still, as of 10/2008 (and I quote) "one of the top lead polluters". I'd imagine, like cars, the pollution is much worse if you don't match your specific needs to the size and capacity of the plane you chose.

"But after EPA standards were installed in 1978, other sources—most profoundly, leaded auto fuel—were outlawed, leaving aviation fuel as one of the top lead polluters."

http://www.flyingmag.com/news/1174/epa-cites-aviation-fuel-as-a-primary-source-of-lead-pollution.html

Again, and unless something has happened since October, Dan was right and there's still gobs of lead being pumped into the atmosphere because of airplanes.

According to the following link it's 570 million gallons per year.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/05/swift-enterpris.html

570,000,000 gallons. Hawaiian mansion here I come.

FWIW, a full ban on aviation fuel lead appears to be law, but a moratorium is in effect on it until 2010. How odd.

about the lead content I was being sarcastic but it has been reduced , if you will read a previous comment I wrote, I did say that airplane and jets are a major contributor to pollution in the air.

and Dan, I can understand your beef about environmentalist that do not practice what they preach, hmmmm sound like any ministers you know? I don't claim that all who are pushing for cleaner air and less waste aren't guilty of the very things they are trying to control.

As far as the temp in my home it is never set above 70 in the winter or below 85 in summer. so I don't think I would be affected by that much.

as far as over zealous christians who badger me with their religious toutings , I encounter people many times in a weeks time who constantly refer to their religion and their god. My clients bring up the subject and I don't reveal my beliefs to many but the ones to whom I do, have tried to preach to me on many occasions. Even ones that don't know my religious preferences try to get me to come to their church, and ramble on about how wonderful it is there. I try my hardest to keep my mouth shut to them as I dont' want to loose customers but, as a matter of fact I have had them be down right hateful and nasty to me when I tell them that I have my own place of meditation and decline their invitation, that is when I tell them to find someone else to do their sewing.

I even had one man get right in my face and point his finger at me and tell me that I was evil for not being christian and that my beliefs "were almost there" as he put it. this happened more than once with this guy. I let him know in no uncertain terms that I did not appreciate his candor and if he was going to continue his assaults upon my beliefs he could find another person as well, he still brings his things to me to sew but he no longer discusses religion. My husband even had to intervene on my behalf one time to this guy because he was not getting the message and continued his verbal assault upon me.

I have had family members turn their back to me because of my beliefs, I have not spoken to either of my brothers in several years because of this, and it isn't because I haven't reached out to them, I call them every year on their birthdays and only get a voice mail but they never return my calls.

As I stated in another thread, I have a friend (well, I call her a friend actually I just look out for her because she is elderly and has had a stroke and lives alone and is a neighbor) but when I go to visit she invariably brings up the subject of religion, she has invited me to her home when she was expecting jehova's witnesses saying that I might decide I want to believe in god if I attend. this happens on a regular basis with her. then this year at holiday time she adamently insisted that I must believe in god because I had put lights up outside. her exact word to me were , "you know you believe in god or you wouldn't have lights up, you know you do you can't deny it to me." I became rather upset over her insistance and left. She has strained our friendship because of her attempts at manipulating me on religious issues. It isn't like she doesn't know my beliefs, she does but she continues her barrage.

I had another customer who when she found out my religious preferences poopooed me and shorted me out of $100.00 she owed me and never came back. that's real christian like isn't it.

this is getting long and I can't sit here any longer and type but you get my drift as to what I have to deal with on an almost daily basis.

Roger, from the Aircraft Owners & Pilots Association. I normally post the link but this article is in a members only section and may not be available linked:

100LL—its rising cost, future availability, and environmental impact is on the minds of everyone in the aviation industry. AOPA is working to help find a viable fuel replacement that would have a minimal impact on our members and general aviation aircraft.

On March 17, AOPA responded to the Environmental Protection Agency’s publication of a rulemaking petition to limit lead emission from general aviation aircraft. The EPA’s move stems from a petition from the environmental group Friends of the Earth.

“Any change in the current fuel standard could have a direct impact on the safety of flight and therefore must be fully tested and FAA approved before any operational changes occur,” wrote AOPA Executive Vice President of Government Affairs Andy Cebula.

The FAA announced in January that it plans to study the aviation industry’s effect on the environment and correct problem areas. Currently, general aviation piston aircraft rely upon the use of 100LL, and there is no simple alternative fuel available.
Replacement fuel must work for all

“A suitable unleaded replacement fuel is one that can be used in all existing and new piston-powered general aviation aircraft. AOPA understands that for a percentage of aircraft, this may require engine and airframe modifications,” Cebula explained to the EPA. “Any transition plan must include adequate time for the aviation and petroleum industries to select an appropriate fuel octane and for any necessary aircraft modifications to be assessed and addressed.”

AOPA members should be assured that the association will be working with the FAA, general aviation industry, and other governmental agencies to advocate for pilots and aircraft owners.
Current need for 100LL

Removing lead from avgas without having a suitable alternative would have a catastrophic impact on 30 percent of the GA fleet. High-compression engines on aircraft like Bonanza, Lancair, or Cirrus “would be unable to safely operate on a fuel with an octane rating less than that currently provided in 100LL,” AOPA explained. Lead increases fuel octane so that high-compression engines perform better and are protected from detonation, a condition that can lead to catastrophic engine failure.

In order to continue operating, the aircraft would need significant engine modifications. While this is a small percentage of the fleet, these airplanes burn an estimated 70 percent of the avgas used. This is because they burn more fuel per hour than low-compression engines and because they are frequently used for long trips, including business travel.

Seventy percent of the fleet has low-compression engines, like the older Cessna Skyhawks and Piper Cherokees, and could run on a lower octane fuel without needing significant engine modifications. One alternative for these aircraft has been automobile gasoline. Many aircraft already have supplemental type certificates (STCs) that allow them to run on automobile gasoline.

However, 51 percent of automotive fuel is blended with ethanol, and the percentage is likely to increase. Aircraft operating with automotive fuel STCs cannot use fuel with ethanol in it. Ethanol-blended automotive gasoline causes problems for aircraft and engines that can lead to deterioration in parts of the fuel system.
Alternative fuels research

As a member of the Coordinating Research Council (CRC), AOPA is working with petroleum producers; researchers; airframe, engine, and component manufacturers; universities; and others to review and develop alternative fuels that would require minimal modification to existing piston-engine aircraft.

“The panel has been working on a regular basis to exchange ideas and hopefully come up with a transparent solution to replace 100LL,” Cebula wrote. “The majority of the CRC’s work has been on testing an unleaded fuel that can provide the same octane level as 100LL.”

AOPA also has been a supporter of the FAA’s William J. Hughes Technical Center, which has been searching for a lead-free avgas alternative since the 1990s. The association regularly lobbies Congress to keep funding going to the research facility and had funding for it inserted in the House FAA funding bill.

“Getting the lead out of aviation fuel is not a simple, straightforward process,” Cebula concluded, explaining that AOPA will be involved every step of the way.

March 19, 2008

570 million gallons per year may sound like alot but it's chicken feed compared to cars.

http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_04_01.html

Granted cars no longer burn leaded fuel but general aviation (GA) is much more than guys like me flying around on a Sunday afternoon.

"In order to continue operating, the aircraft would need significant engine modifications. While this is a small percentage of the fleet, these airplanes burn an estimated 70 percent of the avgas used..."

Dan, are you saying that legislators pass feel-good do-nothing environmental laws without having the slightest inkling of how they'll actually affect anything like purchase price, operating costs, or safety?

Surely that's not how the new CAFE standards will work...

(thanks for the inside info, btw)

Sorry. I forgot to add the quote on the new CAFE standards from a guy in charge of already failing GM:

"This is going to be a net average cost of $6,000 per vehicle, which will have to be passed onto the consumer."

http://www.autobloggreen.com/category/carbuying/

$6k added to cars people already don't see as worth their money. Unintended consequences at work yet again.

Back to my friend noname, although you have a name :) First of all, thank you for your 2nd paragraph. I'm glad you realize there are some charlatans in the environmental movement, algore specifically comes to mind.

I work interactively with clients on a weekly basis and the subject of religion very very rarely comes up. I've been in business for 11 years and can count on one hand how often religion came up, yet you encounter this many times per week. Different clientele perhaps? Are you sewing vestments for churches? ;-)

The really sad part of your post is your brothers. I have a brother who has no use at all for religion yet he and I still speak, we are brothers after all. Flesh and blood ya know :)
I have a gay nephew, not the son of the above mentioned brother, who has no use for religion either yet he and I remain in contact.

Your brothers seem pathetic if they won't speak to your because of your beliefs.

Sorry to say, noname, but the very things you hate Christians for doing are the same type of things that non-Christian do to us. No one holds a lease on proselytizing. I have been called so many things (knuckle dragger, lowbrow, ignorant, brain washed are just a few that can be said on a civilized blog) that sometimes I wonder if there are any civil Atheists or Pagans or Wiccans or whoever. You can't imagine what it is like to be the only person to stop to thank God for providing food and having the entire cafeteria snicker.
It doesn't matter that you don't believe- there are more of your ilk that disparage the benign worship of God then Believers that chase you around trying to scare the devil out of you.
That sounds more like a made-for-tv movie than a personal story. The characters seem to be taken directly from Elmer Gantry.
BTW, since it makes you feel better to think of Christians as being toothless backwoods hicks, I am a Blood Bought, degreed Libertarian technical writer for a software company that loves singing old time hymns and a good single malt scotch. Maybe we have met on the street- you wouldn't know, though, because I try to emulate both Jesus and and my pastor and present as a positive role model. Sometimes successfully.
I will pray that the anger in your heart is quieted, in the same manner that hate, anger and incivility was laid to rest in mine.

Noname said: "
http://to TDBB: I don't care who you are no one and I mean NO ONE lives by all the ten commandments!! But more importantly NO ONE lives by the rules of the seven deadly sins as stated in the old testament. If you question that just look around you. Greed, Jealousy, Lazyness, Gluttony (probably the most ignored of all), Lust, Powerhunger, these rules were set down as a guide for everyday living that could be carried into the future. But very few live by these rules on the contrary these are the wrongdoings that are committed most frequently by people who claim to be christian."

I realize you are an Atheist noname but you need to check your facts when you attempt to quote from The Bible. Also there is a series on The History Channel being aired this week called The 7 Deadly Sins.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_deadly_sins

Sorry the above link got chopped here it is again;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_deadly_sins

"Dan, are you saying that legislators pass feel-good do-nothing environmental laws without having the slightest inkling of how they'll actually affect anything like purchase price, operating costs, or safety?"

Welcome to the world of govt. regulation Roger.

This may be surprising, but Bush is no friend of general aviation. He pushed for user fees, i.e. check the weather or file a flight plan and you pay. These fees are already paid for in aviation fuel taxes amongst other sources but Bush wanted more.

User fees are prevalent in Europe and it has decimated general aviation there. Keep in mind GA is the future for airline pilots, that's why so many pilots travel here for their training.

Obama may be less stringent on user fees, it's quite unknown at this time.

Think about it, if a pilot has to pay to check the weather he/she may be less likely to do so. Hence more accidents. The law of unintended consequences.

***********************************************

Noname: "As far as the temp in my home it is never set above 70 in the winter or below 85 in summer."

70 in the winter I can understand, but 85 in the summer???? Hell just turn everything off and open the windows, just like before AC was invented. 85....gotta be sticky with the humidity we have here. Enjoy.

First to overtaxed: I don't believe I ever quoted the bible I was making a point, that being that no one lives by the laws of the bible 100% not even you and if you make that claim then you are a liar (isn't that one of the ten commandments?) human aren't perfect but if you claim to be then you obviously don't always tell the truth.

I don't have cable so I won't be watching the special, but I have seen several programs on the history channel that poke more holes in the stories in the bible than a woodpecker!! Glad to see those stories.

now for WJ: why in the world would anyone call you names like that about religion unless you were trying to shove it down someones throat? (none of those terms have any religious significance) and I hardly believe that everyone in the cafeteria snickered at you as you said your blessing, I don't know what cafeteria you go to but any I have eaten at have seating for several hundred people, you mean to tell me several hundred people snickered as you said your blessing I don't believe that. Especially since most were probably christian anyway. (see above paragraph about lying)

As for instances I cited, all were true and just the tip of the iceberg. Elmer Gantry indeed, I could go on for days about instances I have had to endure at the hands of so called christians.

One in particular comes to mind, a few years ago my husband and I were the victims of what I call terrorist threats by a family that claims to be christian, we would not allow them to ride their four wheelers on our property and in our portion of creek, so to retaliate, - my husband was hung in effigy in this guys yard with a nasty sign below, the guy had an endless number of friends and family that drove up and down our road excessivly and stopping in front of our house day and night honking horns, shouting obscenities and threats, he made several threats that he was going to blow our house up, set it on fire, and shoot through it. They had both of us arrested several times on false charges, we weren't even in town on one of the accusations. They tried to shut my business down, vandalized my sign I have at the road, tried to run my husband down with their car, constantly throwing their beer cans and other trash ( like poop on a napkin) in our yard, threw a rock and damaged my car. I have a 12 page diary and several pictures of these and other events, this went on for months and when we finally went to court it was all dismissed because they have ties in the judicial system. By the way we were the fifth family on this little half mile long road neighborhood to have dealings with this family.

Still another so called christian family in the neighborhood , (he is supposed to be a deacon in his church), has poisioned several pets in the neighborhood, sent obscene e-mails to another member of his church, because the guy was divorced and dating . The content of the e-mails dealt with having sex with cows and other such vile acts. This man has a motorcycle repair business that he works out of his home and has on many occasions stolen good parts off of bikes he's working on and replaced it with a bad part then tell the customer he needs to replace that part, to get more money . that's real christian like isn't it?

Then there was the woman who was a crack head and preached her religion all the time but in reality she was going out on her husband 3 or 4 nights a week (sometimes leaving her young son home alone over night) to go out and have sex with who ever would have her and give her money or crack. She even tried to seduce my husband. She used me and took advantage of my charitable nature. I would guess I had spent several hundred dollars on this woman , for food and gas to take her places she needed to go probation officer , doctor, hospital) and ibuprofen for every time she came home beat up from being with the "wrong" people.

Shall I go on??

And now for my friend Dan, first thanks for considering me your friend, we can be friends and still disagree, that is what makes the world go round . I do open my windows when I can but the pollution is so bad as we live near a busy freeway that we have to keep the windows closed most of the time for air quality purposes.

We can certainly be friends noname, I have friends and relatives with whom I disagree in religion and politics but that doesn't mean we cannot treat each other with respect and have a good time.

Your stories seem unbelievable, I don't deny they are true but all this happening to one family? Personally I'd consider moving away from wackos and into cleaner air.

We live in the country, have great neighbors, never had a problem with crime and can see the stars at night. When the wind blows from the west we do get a bit of barnyard smell from the cattle farm a mile up :)

I guess I'm a boring Christian in your book as I stay faithful to my wife, don't use drugs, help my wife raise children (and cook/clean) and work hard for a living. I don't attempt to proselytize anyone either.

Dan I'd love to move but we own this place outright and it doesn't have a big resale value we could never get enough money from it to buy someplace else altho we do keep an eye out for an inexpensive place in the mountains. Until then we are stuck here. Things have calmed down in the neighborhood and I even speak to the guy who gave us all the trouble once in a while,

We still have a problem with crime here we have caught several people on our property in the middle of the night trying to steal stuff. And I'm afraid with the encroaching city limits I'm sure it's not going to get any better.

No you don't sound likea boring christian , actually you stir my intellect , I haven't had a good intelluctual converstion since my before my first husband passed away. It's good to have stimulating conversation I think , l know I do have a tendency to go over the edge once in a while having a rough time right now , had a traffic accident last weekend and I still have a head ache. Everything will be ok tho. thanks for being friends. TTYL

Hey, owning a home outright is impressive, we have another 13 years or so.

"...I haven't had a good intellectual conversation since my before my first husband passed away."

Assuming you have another husband now, I wouldn't recommend letting him read that sentence :)

My wife has practically no interest in politics and not too much in current events, therefore this blog is a good outlet.

My present husband knows he's not an intellect so that is not a problem.

What we own isn't much but is it ours. 2 acres of rock, trees,creek and mobile home.

I agree this is a great outlet for those of us needing good stimulating conversation.