News-Record.com

Are we blessed by God as a nation, Mr. Slaughter?

But seriously, where's your (or anyone else's) Bible verse that says fetuses are people?

I've never gotten an answer.

Abortion; the most futile subject of discussion on this blog. Everyone have a nice day.

I agree President Bush made very hard decisions with our greater good as his motive .. too bad nearly every one was a BAD decision. If he had only used me as an advisor ...

==

... "our new president’s first calls to action: to promote and support abortion worldwide".

... to PROMOTE abortion worldwide ... ?? Must have been in the Drudge Report.

If we're paying for it, we're promoting it. The most pro-abortion president in the history of America--you asked for it, you got it.

I'll bet, given a real choice, women in less developed nations would rather have immunizations for their children, clean drinking water, and an end to the civil wars that plague so many of them. Show me the throngs of women begging for US funded abortions.

"But seriously, where's your (or anyone else's) Bible verse that says fetuses are people?"........

scriptures are replete with reference to this issue.
but it seems like you are like so many others, you desire someone ELSE do your research and tell you what scripture says. it is futile to discuss this with you.

40million young lives , that were not wanted and if they would have been born there would be 40 million more people in this country, many would be living off welfare, and how many of those, when they were children, would have been abused or neglected and grow up to become thugs because of improper upbringing, because they were not wanted.

As for Bush doing anything for the good of the American citizen, what rock have you been living under for the last 8 years, Georgie never ddid anything for the good of anybody but Georgie!!!

Buz. I have looked. I've found nothing conclusive, possibly because there is not a conclusive verse in the Bible that deals with this. So, instead of saying it's futile to discuss with me...why not just open the Good Book and type a verse or two here.

It doesn't seem like it would be so difficult especially considering that so many folks say that abortion is against God (and it may be), but I've never seen anyone back it up.

Who is this God fellow and when was he voted to public office?

Thanks for the laugh, ZhaK.

"How long should we expect to be blessed by God, while our country, rapidly wanes in its concern about what God would have us do?"

God blesses us whether we deserve it or not, Chip. He does not operate on the "you do something for me and I'll do something for you" system. But what are you suggesting "God would have us do" with regards to abortion?

Buz,

I also await your proof, not just your opinion.

Why is it that people continue to believe making abortion illegal will somehow end abortion? Did making robbery illegal end robbery? Making drugs illegal end possession and sales?
I'm not pro-abortion. I am pro-clinical abortion. I am against criminalizing, demonizing and traumatizing women who choose to have an abortion, because guess what?
Abortion will happen, anyway.
Prior to Roe v Wade in 1973, millions of abortions took place in America, often in unsterile, unmedical conditions.
Making abortion illegal or denying funding to groups who provide women's services will not end abortion, but it could needlessly end women's, as well as their fetuses', existences.

"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. "
Thomas Jefferson

A good argument for limited, constitutional government is that a small government will take and spend less money so that we don't have to fight with each other over all the controversial stuff our taxes are funding. We get to spend more of our own money the way we and our God see fit, and we all have less to fight about--sounds good to me.

Mama, the same organizations who provide essential pre-natal care so women all over the world can safely deliver healthy babies, even in impoverished circumstances, and the same organizations who then innoculate, feed and protect those babies from the hardships surrounding them, also provide abortion services, particularly if the mother's life is in danger.
The Bush Administration hamhandedly banned funding to those groups.
If you truly find succor in TJ's quote, that's your call. But 99.9999 percent of what these organizations do has nothing to do with abortion on demand.

Jeremiah 1:5, NIV. "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,

I'm sure you'l find a way to ignore this truth too.

Really, you knew me before you formed me in the womb. WOW! Correct me if I'm wrong but, I was sure that "babies" were formed by the joining of sperm and egg, not by a supreme being. But, that's neither here nor there right now.

My main issue is that "God" is so against abortion which he believes is murder, yet he sees fit to murder millions of people in a flood. Damn! Can't even kill them off peacefully in their sleep, has to drown them. That's f****d up.

Oh, and supposedly, he's not done. I guess the next time it's supposed to be by fire or something. Don't worry though, a good firefighter will save your ass.

Ptrick, that God knew Jeremiah before he was even conceived dispels the notion that unborn fetuses are denied the full sanctity of God-life.

Beyond that, I certainly will not dispute your interpretation of Scripture. I admire faith, respect it and retain it.

I love it firerescuechick, you are so right, love your snappy combacks. would love to get meet you sometime, I think we would really hit it off. We seem to see eye to eye on alot of issues.

"The word of the Lord came to me [Jeremiah], saying,

'Before I formed you in the womb I knew you [Jeremiah], before you [Jeremiah] were born I set you apart; I appointed you [Jeremiah] as a prophet to the nations."' Jeremiah 1:4-5 NIV

All I know for sure is that God knew Jeremiah in the womb...it doesn't mention the rest of us, and that's the literal translation (taking the words at face value), which I'm sure you'll appreciate.

I do not mind God argued anti-abortionists rants so much knowing that "miscarried"(layman term) God made, is listed in death certificate as Aborted. Millions a year. RTLifers need to not disfigure,extort ,defile the charactor of another till they point a finger at themselves.Christine

Like I said: "Abortion; the most futile subject of discussion on this blog."

"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. "

Guess what...most of what I pay in taxes are for things I disbelieve in...the war in Iraq being #1.

Speaking of Obama, someone sent this just now.

Baskin Robbins is introducing a new ice cream in honor of the new president:

"Barocky Road". It's half vanilla, half chocolate, and surrounded by fruits and nuts!

while some may appreciate firerescuechick snappy combacks (sic) - her comments are not founded in scriptural teachings.....i suspect she doesn't have much use for them. scripture does say that God 'created' man in his imagine. no sperm or eggs required.

ptrick ...the truth (scriptural) is hidden from unbelievers and in many instances believers are ignorant to it truths as well...so don't be surprised when you get negative comments from both non believers and believers alike. i encourage you to keep on hittin' the book (i.e bible).

carol dunn...obama is gonna fix everything just give him a month or so in office. do you hate our tax dollars supporting the proliferation of abortions any less?

Dan, you're absolutely right- Either you believe humans come from human origins, or you believe some magical judicial process causes a mass of undifferentiated cells to become human.
Either you believe the Bible is God's word, or you believe He somehow lost control of the translations and misogynist hacks hijacked the process.
Either you believe Jesus was the Son of God, or you belive he was a good man, but insane.
There is no discussiion about abortion that includes men, because we aren't women.
Either Jeremiah was a profound teacher that knows that if God knew one child in the womb, He knows them all.
I do know one thing- you can be an atheist, wiccan, agnostic or any other non-Christian, and still be aware that killing an unborn human is the epitome of human arrogance.

Margaret Sanger's dream has come true.

" … ‘miscarried’ .. is listed in death certificate as Aborted.”

Is that correct, Christine ? I do not doubt it but would like some back-up – I’ve always been puzzled by the million plus annual statistic .. and that would certainly explain much of it,

you may believe that abortion is the epitome of human arrogance, but in actuality it is the only form of population control that some people understand and use, you don't have to be nonchristian to belive that. but what about killing a human that is already been born and is living a productive life. I would think that would be an even worse case of human arrogance.

Buz: Surprise not everybody thinks the bible is the greatest book ever written. It is not exactly worded the way it was in it's original version, alot was added and omitted to suit who ever was translating at the time, the popes had alot to do with rewriting the bible, in order to gain control of the masses of people that were living a life of sin. the only way to do that was to put the fear of god into them. If you believe all that mumbo jumbo in the bible then you must be very naive. of course I haven't met a christian yet who wasn't, they have to be to fall for all that confusion that is written therein.

Hey Dan I sure would like to try some of that ice cream sounds good to me. LOL.

I think I've read somewhere that the medical term for miscarriage is 'spontaneous abortion.'

"If you believe all that mumbo jumbo in the bible then you must be very naive. of course I haven't met a christian yet who wasn't,..."

No discussion on abortion tonight thanks, been there done that. However this quote is the epitome of human arrogance.

What about people of other faiths or beliefs? Are they equally very naïve as well? Hindus, Muslims, Jews?

Are only atheists not naïve according to your statement?

I've met plenty of atheists and not one of them was so arrogant of those with different beliefs.

That ivory tower stands mighty high. Careful not to get a nosebleed.

hey noname, are you really libcon? You have a definite edge that reminds me of libcon..... you and firereschick are just plain scary! (guess when you guys hook up you can have a great time being angry and hopeless and utterly depressing together! have fun with that!) Instead of just worshipping yourselves, you could worship each other!

yes, rahrah, medical term is spontaneous abortion, although I am not sure what is on a death certificate with natural miscarriages.

"but what about killing a human that is already been born and is living a productive life. I would think that would be an even worse case of human arrogance."

What?

Are you talking about murder? War? Partial birth abortion?

Surely not capital punishment.

Clarify please, while I clean the coffee off my laptop.

noname,

try to use a little logic-

If God is truly omnipotent, why would He allow any translation to stray from His original intent.

The words of Jesus have survived 2000 years of attempts by "smarter", stronger and certainly more disdainful people than you to render meaningless.
When you and I are confined to the anonymity of earthly death, Jesus will still be infuriating elitist snobs.

P.S.- this snippet is probably more true than not-
"..of course I haven't met a christian yet.."

"I am not sure what is on a death certificate with natural miscarriages."

.. and I'd sure like to know .. so a little research:

1 - apparently it vares from state to state - some more draconian than others.

2 - apparently " .. the CDC tracks abortions separately from natural miscarriages."

This is one of on-going divisive issues where, as Dog Breath moans about the lack of NC G-Men help in his Bee Business, other CONservatives want heavy-handed g-men intervention in this subject.

Here's an interesting blog post found while digging a bit:

I "happened to have FOUR miscarriages before I was able to successfully give birth to my only daughter. I have a great sympathy for the loss, but honestly, they did not need government paperwork to mourn the loss. They could have named the child themselves, they could have held a memorial service."

That post came from here :

http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/25/french-parents-can-name-fetuses/

.. which regardless of the site name or any infered bias, still offered what I found to be reasoned thoughful discussion.

WJ : boy you really are naive if you think that what you read in the bible is what was originally written. Much has been misinterperted during translation from one language to another and much was deleted and added if you don't believe that than just go back to church. Thats where it's all happening for you . You are right I never have met a TRUE christian yet, everyone I have met (and I've met plenty in my day) are all hypocrites. Especially you WJ. Always a do as I say not as I do attitude. You claim christianity but yet you speak ill or mock others in unfortunate circumstances instead of trying to give them a helping hand. Not very christian like if you ask me. You sit in judgement and doesn't YOUR good book state that only your god can judge. Those words in your bible are not the exact words of Jesus, as it was all written several hundred years after Jesus lived on this earth. Like I've said before take a rumor and let it be passed between 10 people and see just what the rumor ends up being by the time it gets to the tenth person. I'm sure it won't be anything like the original story. Any story or rumor changes as it changes hands, and so were the stories in your bible.

I dont' understand how so many people can follow so blindly to a superstition and theory. That just shows me how unaware and naive humans can be. Guess you all just "want to be a part of something" so bad that you will give up your right to think for yourself.

I don't think that if firerescuechick and I met we would be depressing each other as you claim Ms Malone, I think we would have a great time bashing hypocritical christians, and I dont' know libcon. Nope my other personana on here is gottabashchristians.

As far as the taking of a productive life I was speaking of murder & war. I guess you think those are good reasons to kill tho but not aborting a fetus that is not wanted or is causing great harm to the mother. HUH.

I got an idea how about all of YOU that are opposed to abortion, see all these desperate mothers through their gestation period and then when the babies are born YOU take care of them, raise them, & feed them cuz you know the real mama isn't going to. She doesn't want the baby to start with and it will be a burden to her to have to keep and take care of.

Unfortunately in our society we are brainwashed into thinking sex is just for fun as portrayed on tv shows and advertisements and the poor kids that are exposed to this stuff are confused, they are being told one thing by all the crap that is thrust at them over the air waves and then told that it is wrong when they mess up and get pregnant. How is that for contradictive teaching?

Ms. Malone I'd be careful with your criticizim of firerescuechick, your life may be in her hands someday. I don't think she asks what religion you are before she does her job saving lives.

Some food for thought:

"It appears to me (whether rightly or wrongly) that direct arguments against christianity and theism produce hardly any effect on the public; and freedom of thought is best promoted by the gradual illumination of men's minds which follows from the advance of science." [Darwin]
"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." [Voltaire]

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism." [Einstein]

"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

"I cannot believe in the immortality of the soul.... No, all this talk of an existence for us, as individuals, beyond the grave is wrong. It is born of our tenacity of life – our desire to go on living … our dread of coming to an end." [Edison]

"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma." [Lincoln]

"Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?" [Arthur C. Clarke]

"Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologies." [Thomas Jefferson]

"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile." [Kurt Vonnegut]

"Religion is based . . . mainly on fear . . . fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand. . . . My own view on religion is that of Lucretius. I regard it as a disease born of fear and as a source of untold misery to the human race." [Bertrand Russell]

noname,
Your analysis of the subject matter is flawed, and based upon some type of "knowledge" which allows you to know what no one else does.
I guess you have revealed knowledge.
I don't judge- God has already judged me, you and everyone.
Taking umbrage at your hate speech is not judgment- it's calling out your hate, bigotry and ignorance.
I have never stated that anyone should do as I say- I have responded with answers (which you and others don't want to hear).
Dan is correct- there is no more divisive subject than the murder of the unborn. It tends to shine a light on the hatred of unbelievers, and uncovers the soft underbelly of self hatred.
I don't know you, but I love you and will pray that God's will softens your heart.

soooo..."noname": I better not "criticize" frc, because (as she claimed in her post) she or another "good firefighter" will be the one to save me when the earth is consumed by the sun, huh?

But its perfectly okay for YOU to criticize ALL Christians (as you have done in your above posts) even though there are many Christians who are doctors, nurses, police, why, perhaps even many "fire-rescue-people" who ARE Christians and may one day have YOUR life in THEIR hands?

WJE is correct, your logic IS flawed and bent to your own agenda, which is why you remind me so of Libcon. Given that you said a couple of days ago that you have 5 e-mail addresses, and knowing that Libcon has been known to "change" his identity, (in addition to the fact that Libcon has been conspicuously absent right about the time you started your frequent posting), makes me think maybe you in fact are one of his multiple personalities!

oh, and I didn't say that you and frc would "be depressing each other".... I said you could be utterly depressing TOGETHER! To the contrary, I am sure you would have a great time with that.

Ellis,

I am a Christian and I do not believe the Bible has remained unadulterated over thousands of years of man-influenced interpretation. Otherwise, why would there be so many versions of the Bible and so many different religious beliefs within the Christian faith? Do you deny God gave man free choice to think for himself? What would be the point of our existence if God was going to control the thoughts and actions of mankind?

Your words back at you: "try to use a little logic"

I don't believe my analysis is flawed but yours is!!! I majored in theology in college!!! I have over the years studied a large number of other religions and found them all to be the same as far as depending on superstition and theory to give basis to their religion.

Show me some proof, and dont' come up with this silly crap that I usually get like "just look around you, do you think that this earth just got here, god HAD to have created it," I say bull.

Never said anything about the sun burning up the earth, you like Dan seem to jump to the extreme when something that you disagree with. You all seem to be so scared of Wiccans or Atheists or Pagans. Why are you so threatened by us? I don't believe that my reasoning is flawed in the least, I have the brains to think for myself and not be a blind follower like you seem to be.

Did you not read my last post of quotes from some very intelligent, prestigious people that for some strange reason agree with my thought train. Do you think that Abe Lincoln, or Darwin, or Thomas Jefferson or Einstein were flawed in their thinking too????

BTW you seem to keep bringing up the subject that you believe I am someone you call libcon....???? I am a woman, not a man, first of all. Never heard of the chap. Libcon if you are out there come to my aid!!!!!!! And did it ever occur to you that there are more people out there with a "mind of their own capable of thinking for themselves" just because it doesn't fit into your comfortable little christian belief, does not mean it is incorrect. It excites me to know that more and more young people are seeing the truth and turning away from christianity.

It simply means that ,those of us that aren't afraid to question, believe one theory and you believe another. The main difference is that your theory is followed in blind faith in a book that you have no proof is original or anything more than a loose interperatation of history, mine is by scientific study and reasoning. you can argue, "But, it's the bible it has to be true", so what!! SHOW ME THE PROOF!!!

Those of us that aren't afraid to question are much more at peace within ourselves, (no I'm not at peace with the way that christians try to degrade and belittle me because I happen to think on a different plane than they do) but within my self I am at peace!

I guess you don't display hate bigotry and igonorance against those that do their best to belittle you and try to gain allies against you for the purpose of proving your beliefs wrong huh? From your posts I see differently. Every one of you is a bigot in one way or another!! and I have seen hate in many posts on here, and ignorance, don't get me started on that one.

Thanks Yvonne, for bringing another opinion to the table that is not so biased and over the top. You are a very down to earth woman, who is willing to see through alot of BS. You, I would consider a nice and decent person.

noname can't be LibCon....there's no obvious sexual attraction to Dan...and LC might have better sentence structure.

Ms Malone, you state "it is perfectly ok for YOU to criticize ALL christians" looks like the tables are turned there, you don't like it when some one does the very thing to you that you are guilty of, with your criticism of non christians. Just what I've always said, the christians think it is ok for them to pass judgement and criticize those of different faiths or no faith, that's acceptable because it is christianity and that is what everyone should be.
Well, I have asked this question several times before and no one will answer How would you react if Wiccans, Pagans, Atheists, or some other religion other than christianity splattered billboards (which are a blight on the countryside to begin with) along the city streets and highways, touting, SEEK ENLIGHTENMENT, LEAVE YOUR CHRISTIAN BELIEFS BEHIND AND FOLLOW THE WAY OF BUDDAH! ? Or if Wiccans came to your door and wanted to hold a coven in your home? Or a group of Islamics wanted to bow to Mecca and pray, in your local recreation center, while your children are there? Or send a bus around your neighborhood gathering up children without the parents consent and give them junk food, and teach them to become Hari Krsna and tell them that christianity is wrong?
WELL WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER TO THAT? I suppose you will have some dribble to say about it but it wouldn't be tolerated!!

I have read with interest how some of you handle Jehovas Witnesses when they come to the door. I gather they are not really welcome either and you have no intention of giving up your beliefs to become one. (and they are christian!! that's what's so funny) But yet, christians seem to think that it is ok to do just that and it should be accepted and they should be welcomed with open arms because they are doing the work of the lord. Horse Hockey!!!!!! what's good for one is good for another it is your intolerance of those that are not christian that concerns me.

You can't stand it when someone on the "OTHER" side does the same to you. Where is the justice in that? Why is it that christianity is the only acceptable religion?

"I suppose you will have some dribble to say about it but it wouldn't be tolerated!!"

Awful assuming.....

rahrah: I'm sorry but I really don't see any pearls of wisdom coming from any of your posts, and I don't see any fantastic sentence structure either so go back to school and grow up.

I am sure it wouldn't be tolerated, rahrah. I am not the only one assuming here, oops but that is ok because you are christian and you are sooo in-tell-i-gent.

Do you have a clue as to why you dont' have Wiccan, Pagans, Athiest, or other religions coming to your door and pushing their religion onto the rest of the world? Because they are certain in their beliefs and don't have a need to convert , they respect others and their beliefs. But, many do resent christians forcing their religion onto them, and belittling them for their beliefs.

I guess you are one of these young people that was never taught to respect your elders. I am probably old enough to be your grandmother!!

Oh, you just haven't hit me when I'm in stride. It happens every leap year on the second Tuesday in March.

Until then, I'll stay in school...as for the growing up...I don't wanna, but you might listen to your own advice.

And you want find any delusions of grandeur or superior intelligence here. I just try to look at things objectively...you know, call 'em like I see 'em and all that jazz.

As for Christians pushing down your doors...

As someone who majored in theology, you might be aware that Christianity teaches it's followers to spread the word and try to convert. They're just following their religion...can't really blame them. You might have something though, I don't always agree with the methods used or the unwarranted belittling of others.

I was taught to respect everyone and treat everyone equally, regardless of age, race, or gender. Part of respect is honesty...and I'll be honest about how I feel about you and others when I think it's necessary.

“Ms Malone, you state "it is perfectly ok for YOU to criticize ALL christians" looks like the tables are turned there, you don't like it when some one does the very thing to you that you are guilty of, with your criticism of non christians.”

Noname, This is what I have said about non-Christians in this thread:
______________________________________
______________________________________

(i.e: Absolutely NOTHING have I said about non-Christians.)

I did however make a comment about YOUR post…. That it was scary. Your subsequent posts have confirmed that initial feeling for me. It has nothing to do with the fact that you are an atheist, it has everything to do with the comments that you made on this very thread…... Firereschick’s intolerant comments (as well as all the profanity, I just don’t dig it, think it’s a sign of a very limited vocabulary) were also alarming to me.

From your posts, you seem quite insecure and conflicted in your atheism. I mean, really, what in the world does an atheist need a degree in theology for? (Did you earn a degree? If so, what specific degree did you obtain? And, how are things going for you in that line of work, given that the economy is what it is?)

On the other hand, no name: here is what YOU have said in this thread alone, about Christianity: (Re- read your own comments…. really…. Everyone else—I apologize, but I am trying to make a point to dear nn)

1) “If you believe all that mumbo jumbo in the bible then you must be very naive. of course I haven't met a christian yet who wasn't, they have to be to fall for all that confusion that is written therein.”

2) You are right I never have met a TRUE christian yet, everyone I have met (and I've met plenty in my day) are all hypocrites. Especially you WJ. Always a do as I say not as I do attitude. You claim christianity but yet you speak ill or mock others in unfortunate circumstances instead of trying to give them a helping hand. Not very christian like if you ask me. You sit in judgement and doesn't YOUR good book state that only your god can judge.

3) dont' understand how so many people can follow so blindly to a superstition and theory. That just shows me how unaware and naive humans can be. Guess you all just "want to be a part of something" so bad that you will give up your right to think for yourself.

4) I think we would have a great time bashing hypocritical christians, and I dont' know libcon. Nope my other personana on here is gottabashchristians.

5) Your ENTIRE 9:48 a.m. post!

So, no name, looks like the evidence is that you are in fact the intolerant one and a bit out of control as well!

Again, why in the world would an atheist want/ need (or do with?) a degree in theology?

rahrah, you are right, libcon did have better writing skills…

and I can’t believe I am saying this, but….. noname actually allows me to cherish my memories of ole’ lib con….. At least he/she/ IT had a tendency to be entertaining!

You were the very first one to welcome me to this blog 6 or 8 months ago when Libcon was the one who inspired me to sign on and speak up (although I had been reading comments for about a year before posting)… so, rahrah, watcha think?do you still “tolerate” me?

Well, I'll be looking forward to the second Tues in March to see what wonderful observations pour from your posts.

I also call em' like I see em' that is why I am an Atheist.

Yes, I am aware that the christian religion teaches it's followers to spread the word and try to convert, but that is wrong. Actually I'm not sure what passage it is in the bible but there is a passage that tells people to pray in private (go into your closet and pray) something to that effect. Don't recall the exact words as my Theology classes were over 40 years ago.
I can blame them tho as they seem to persist way too much and in many cases won't take no for an answer. You can't take the bible literally, it is impossible to live by.

Ms. I guess you are so blindsighted that you can't see the forest for the trees. My intolerance to christians stems from the criticism and persecution I have endured over the years because of my religious nonbeliefs. After so many years I have tired of it and wish to convey my thoughts to those who think they are holier than thou. This is a good forum to do so and I enjoy getting people thinking about alternative beliefs. Everyone should educate themselves to other religions, it can be very enlightening.

Acutally I was going to be a nun at one time and that is why I was taking the theology course but then upon studying for 2 years realized it was not for me and went on to other things. But just because I don't have your prestigious "degree" does not mean that I am any less informed about a multitude of religions. On the contrary , after I left school I went on to study many Eastern, ancient and new age religions, on my own and have an extensive library of books on the subject.

There does that satisfy your curosity?

Jesus gave the 'Great Commission' to the disciples near the end of one of the four gospels, telling them to go out into the world and spread the word.

He also told a story of two men, one who prayed behind closed doors and one who prayed loudly on the steps of the Temple. The point of this lesson wasn't to say "don't spread the word," but much more something like, "don't be pious for pious sake."

-----------------------
ms. malone, we all have our flaws. If I want mine to be tolerated, I do my best to tolerate others'. Plus you're pretty alright.

If memory serves, I think Dan was the first 'official welcomer'...meaning that he actually said, "Welcome to the blog Ms. Malone," although I may have been the first to acknowledge you.

but I see the spreading of the word to be done to a fault, by those who "think" they are pious and want do it for pious sake, but in reality are hypocrites in that they preach one thing and do another, usually something that is unethical or illegal, or that harms the earth or it's creatures or it's humans. I don't think that Jesus intended for humans to rape the earth as we are doing in this day and age.
Jesus was a prophet that taught things that are not in the bible anymore, because they were not considered important back in those days, when the bible was being revised, but would be appropriate today. Unfortunately those books are lost. I'm sure you are aware of the lost books of the bible.

Dear gottabashchristians: (oops, I mean, noname): FYI, you are in cyber-blog world now…. The people that frequent this blog have no idea about your gender, age, religious convictions, etc… until you make them known.

If you want to keep your anonymity and still be honest about who you are, then maybe your blog name should be:

Atheist granny used-to-be nun

Then, everyone would understand from the get-go where you are coming from and you could spend more time sharing your ideas, rather than reacting to the thoughts of others (even Christians—imagine THAT!) as if you have been personally attacked.

and btw, AGN (short for “atheist granny nun”) .... the quotations you were so proud of, backing up your atheistic views, did nothing to change my mind or heart as a Christian. You may place your confidence in the words of man, as a believer in the grace of Jesus Christ I do not.

but I do not hold your "non-belief" against you.
I would appreciate the same mentality from you.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

okay, rahrah... you may not have "officially" been the first one to "welcome" me, but I do recall feeling welcomed by your 'acknowledgement', all the same..... as I have said numerous times, I learn from you guys "out there" and I value that....

"by those who "think" they are pious and want do it for pious sake, but in reality are hypocrites in that they preach one thing and do another"

For sure there are people like this out there, but just because someone is a Christian doesn't mean they are one of those people or that they approve of those actions.

"I don't think that Jesus intended for humans to rape the earth as we are doing in this day and age. "

I agree...the bible teaches us to be stewards of the Earth and everything that implies.

" I'm sure you are aware of the lost books of the bible."

I'm aware of books that didn't make it into the Bible, but they're fairly inconsequential to my faith. I'd probably describe myself as a moderately liberal Christian and feel that many portions of the Bible are not to be read literally.

Wow, busy day for your guys, I had to go make a living and missed all the fun. Too tired to discuss religion tonight, that subject is as futile as abortion.

I'll agree that noname is not Demon Deacon...ooops.....that won't help noname. Demon Deacon is libcons first name he used prior to switching, but I still use it. Actually he goes by THE LIBERAL CONSERVATIVE but I use Demon Deacon as there is nothing conservative in his posts. Neocon calls him THE LIBERAL CANADIAN but that's a different, and hilarious story.

Demon Deacon is arrogant, belittling and condescending of others, namely conservatives, because of their political beliefs.

Noname is arrogant, belittling and condescending of others, only Christians, because of their religious beliefs.

I say only Christians as she bashes Christians exclusively and conveniently leaves out people of other faiths. That is curious, as she is a 'superior' atheist I would expect her to equally bash others who belief in such fantasies as the Quran or Torah.

By 'superior' atheist I mean noname thinks her beliefs, or lack thereof, are far superior to any others. I've met plenty of atheists who were respectful of others beliefs even thought they didn't share them.

Dan,

Can you believe an anti-abortion letter that bashes Obama, kinda like a two for one, and we have not been in those usual ruts? 55 comments when I signed on and neither one of us bickering back and forth. I know Obama spoke of change, but really! Who woulda thunk?

Anyway, a question about your post: Did it occur to you that noname is not bashing other religions due to the fact no one from other religions is attacking her? Only Christians are in there swinging with her. In fact, Ellis threw the bomb, then disappeared to either watch the fallout or ignore it.

I think noname is no more right or wrong in her belief than the rest of us. And she has as much right to express those beliefs as all of us, in her own way. She should not have to worry about blog monitors beating her down.

While I do not agree with all her assessments of Christians/Christianity, I am secure enough in my beliefs that I feel no need to demonize her. It is a shame we have only confirmed her negative feelings about Christians by the way some have behaved.

Yvonne,
I frequently disagree with you, but you are absolutely right on with this post.
As I sat in Wednesday night service, I had some vivid memories of myself 30 years ago- bitter, angry, frequently violent. Upon introspection, I realized that Jesus would not have responded with anger, as I did.
When I accepted His forgiveness, I began a journey toward betterment knowing I would never reach perfection, but relieved to take the journey.
Sometime during the evening, the phrase "from whom much is given, much is expected" entered my mind.
I apologize to all, especially noname, for my abrasive answers.
I thank God for changing me, even though I stumble and fall.
God bless all of you.

Remember my first post Yvonne? "Abortion; the most futile subject of discussion on this blog."

You and I have gone down the abortion road so many times and it has resulted in neither of us budging one bit on our beliefs on the subject. That is why I didn't go there on this thread.

"Did it occur to you that noname is not bashing other religions due to the fact no one from other religions is attacking her?"

noname started bashing Christians well before this thread and I have never read a post from her regarding any 'fantasy religion or text' other than Christianity and the Bible.

Granted we don't have too many Muslims or Buddhists chiming in here but they too have 'fantasy' religious beliefs.

"She should not have to worry about blog monitors beating her down."

C'mon, she goads and perpetuates it. Dish and out and expect to get it back. Just like Demon Deacon does in the political arena.

BTW, I passed thru Siler City today on my way to and from Sanford. Where were you?

Ellis,

I am impressed with your post and I am glad you shared your experience of God's intervention. A story like your's does more to calm the sea than any other form of exchange. I have to respect a man who is able to do what you have done. We all fail at times to be all God expects of us but not everyone can say so. Thank you.

Dan,

Sorry I missed ya. I told you to give me a shout when you are in the area and you can drop by. I love showing off the place. It is just an old country house, modest by most standards, but it is home to me. I have labored so long and so hard on it, I feel like I gave birth to it. So like a proud parent, I enjoy talking about "her" new life.

I know it is not easy to refrain from defending our position when emotions get jacked up. I often fail myself. However, if you feel someone is trying to provoke you, is that the best time to respond? Or is it wise to respond in like fashion?

I felt like I was being provoked in a recent thread. Therefore, I simply did not accept the challenge. Today I feel better for not allowing myself to be drawn farther into an already unpleasant exchange.

rahrah, don't make nn feel that you have to label yourself in any way, as a Christian.... despite what secularity and intolerants want you to think, FREEDOM really is what Christianity is all about.... and that means individual, specific, FREEDOM, through the redemption of the cross of Christ.

Most people can't handle that BIG of a (simple) concept, and even more are too lazy to explore what that freedom actually means for them on a personal level. However, to fully explore that individual freedom-- if one so choses--AND calls themself a Christian,-- just a Christian, nothing else-- the Bible must be explored, whether you take every word as literal or not.... and the word, which became and IS the flesh-- will be revealed to that person.... on an individual basis.

It's actually quite simple, except to those who place great importance on themselves.... and to them, it is infuriatingly complex. Difficult to let go of that control they thrive on and the "rules" they love to make you think you have to follow, or you can't be included.

my point is: If you are on a faith walk, take your time and savor and enjoy the ride. Ask questions, explore. Be Free. That is the way it was meant to be.
________________________________

Yvonne,

if you were referring to my posts as the blog monitor/ bad behavior, I have this question for you:

Why is it okay for noname to bash-- express herself, behave badly, but a Christian cannot respond in a style that noname (obviously) identifies with? On numerous occasions, Jesus became angry and reacted boldly to those who offended His father, and the legacy He was to fulfill? His passion was and is bold when that is what the circumstance called for.

(you seem to be saying its "expressing yourself" if you're not a Christian, it's "bashing" if you are!)

So sorry if I "offended", you, yet again... and please don't think for a minute that you do not also "monitor" the blog.... you have let me know on several occasions that you too are a "monitor" in every sense of the word. But there again is the implication that that's okay for you but not for others....

still learn from ya, still value you. and don't take offense when you are the one disagreeing...
____________________________________
WJ Ellis: There was nothing wrong with your earlier post to noname, you owe no apology. You spoke up for your beliefs, and I admire that. There are so many "Christians" who are people-pleasers, (they want you to feel bad for speaking up for what you believe in) that it is refreshing to actually see one who is brave enough to stand up for what they actually believe in.
Your comment from this morning: "I don't know you, but I love you and will pray that God's will softens your heart." should have indicated to anyone that where you were coming from. Thank you for being brave enough to speak what you feel and believe.

______________________________________
Dan: " C'mon, she goads and perpetuates it. Dish and out and expect to get it back."

Thanks for the infusion of common sense here, and you are right:

futile!

G'night to all!

Ms. Malone, I find your comments to be rather interesting regarding my post. So that I may defend myself, (although I have no need to), let me say this........

I was not being intolerant of Christianity. On the contrary, I am tolerant of ALL religions. I was simply stating my belief that I think that "God" and Christianity are hypocritical regarding abortion.

I am happy for you that you can believe in a religion so fully. I think that is wonderful. I myself fully believe in a religion and all though you and I do not see eye to eye, we should be living together in relative peace, harmony, and respect. I respect others beliefs, even if I do not agree with them.

As for the noname situation, you must realize that atheism is in itself a religion. That is all I have to say regarding that matter.

I think that if you were more familiar with my posts, you might not have had the reaction that you did.

And finally, as for the profanity, I can assure you that it is not for a lack of vocabulary. I worked too hard in high school AP classes and in college to have a lacking vocabulary. In my world of fire, rescue, and emergency medicine, when you have seen some of the things that I have seen, sometimes the only words are profane ones.
******************************************************

Noname, although you and I agree on most things, I do find your comment to Ms. Malone about criticizing me a little off-putting. I would NEVER treat a patient differently because of their beliefs. As a matter-of-fact, the issue should never come up unless there is a reason for the refusal or acceptance of a treatment. Every patient is important to me and I strive to give each and every one the best care that I am capable of. To imply that I would treat any patient differently is an insult to all.

Thanks for responding, firechick.... I was hoping you would. It is encouraging that you too can easily see the provoking nature of the posts that noname made.

Not all who post here have the benefit of being friends with/ having established relationships/ personally knowing everyone else who posts. That makes everyone who choses to do so a "monitor", as Yvonne called it. We don't have the advantage of knowing individual senses of humor, facial expressions, etc. that we would in a REAL conversation. The nature of the blog is that it is okay to have-- and express-- different opinions regardless of which side of the table you sit on. (or so, imo-- obviously, everyone else doesn't feel that way)....

so, it does disturb me when non-Christians try and put ALL Christians in a box.... I don't do that, and yes, noname's posts warranted a desire in me to speak up. So many seem to want to focus only on Jesus' passive nature, and completely forget that he also could get angry, be discouraged, and, yes... even BOLD in his ministry. I have been labelled by some Southern Baptists as "flawed" in my belief because I do not condemn those who have had abortions, are gay, drug addicts etc. Those are not my biggest issues. (I guess the biggest issue I take with others on religion is when they try and put God in a nice neat box that fits their own personal agenda). According to the Bible I read, there is room for all and Jesus/ God loves all people, whether they do He or not.

Hey, gotta a question for you firechick: you may recall that I am an nurse ICU nurse (we take over where you guys leave off after you get 'em to us)... I worked with a neuro expert who happened to be a Buddhist..... never once did we argue about who was right or wrong in our individual beliefs... and we got the job done well together and I learned much from him... we were/ are friends to this day. Do you have any problems with the Christians you work with? I can acknowledge that the judgmental Christians (who also put God in a box) do much to give Christianity a "bad name" by focusing on exclusion, based on legalism... like rahrah said, we all ARE flawed, and if one can't "get there," well then none can. Jesus was very clear (in the Bible) that His grace is available to ALL.

thanks for the work you do, firechick, and again for your post. Have a great day!

Yvonne, if it's helpful, I've been blessed to watch some of the better and more intellectual discussions (J.D.R., Dan, rahrah, etc.) and have made a list of the qualities they seem to mostly share. I've been following them, and it always helps me feel less provoked:

- stick with facts
- know your topic, know your position and why it is so
- have emotions, but don't rely on them
- be able to back up little known positions with inclusive and verifiable data
- never be afraid of (and actively look for) information that goes against your position in order to strengthen your own position
- always be able to admit you're wrong if it is shown that you are
- never, ever leave a discussion and wait for it to pass off the front page just because you're shown to be wrong, especially if you initiated the discussion
(and most importantly)
- never resort to posting personal insults after your position is shown to be faulty, and never resort to personal insults even if the other party has

Usually people with no real knowledge of a subject won't post, but, for whatever personal reason (a grudge, hoping to play *gotcha!* against someone they dislike, etc.) they occasionally will. I hope these observations can help when dealing with those inexplicable bomb-throwers.

The reason that I have never had anything to say about any other religion other than christianity is because no other religion has criticized me, belittled me, or tried to convert me. Other religions have more respect for anothers beliefs than the christian religion does.

frc: sorry I think you misunderstood my comment about you, my intention was that you don't discriminate when saving lives. But that others might discriminate against you because of your faith. My son is also Wiccan so I do understand.

And when I state that religion is based on superstiton and theory that includes ALL religions. I believe as Thomas Jefferson did about religion.

ms. malone,

I clearly admitted I often fail in being what God would have me be. I recognized those failings. So why did you feel the need to point out those failings? What is in your heart that makes you feel like you have to "get me back" because you thought I was criticizing you? I did not single you out with my comment, did I?

What I was saying, in plain English, is this thread had done nothing but escalate into a "you did, you said", hurtful cluster. With each accusation, it became more brutal. Is this the way God would have us behave? Is it OK for you behave in a bad manner because someone else has?

Dan's post of " C'mon, she goads and perpetuates it. Dish and out and expect to get it back." is hardly a good example of maturity, imho. In fact, it is an immature attitude, again imho. To me, it is tantamount to kids on a playground, always ready to give back what they receive. It would never occur to them to simply walk away due to the fact they are immature.

I have no beef with you, per se. As one of God's children, you are my sister in Christ. Let us treat one another with more kindness (which was the point of my post initially).

Roger,

You have compiled a good guidelines list. In future correspondence with me, I would humbly suggest you follow it.

RB: - "never resort to posting personal insults after your position is shown to be faulty, and never resort to personal insults even if the other party has"
Better practice what you are trying to preach there . As for my position being faulty, that is your opinion. I believe that your position is faulty , so what!! who showed mine to be faulty? YOU and only YOU. I guess you think that the quotes I posted were faulty too. Or maybe you skipped over that part because it was not what you wanted to hear. In any case you need to go back to my 2/4 9:48 post. I am not the only one who thinks this way nor have I ever been.

I get so tired of this double standard regarding religion, it's only ok if it's christianity,( all other beliefs are wrong and evil and so are the people that follow them.) Who left the christians in charge of saving the world, and what makes any of you think that you are qualified to do so? I don't think this is what your god intended for you to behave like. YOU should be ashamed of the way your religion has evolved to ostracized everyone who does not believe as you do. WWJD???? he certainly wouldn't exibit the disdain that many of his followers do today.

Hi Yvonne,

I have pointed out nothing that you did not yourself say, and certainly did not intend for you to take that as me pointing out your failures! Quite honestly, I don’t know of any way you have “failed”, as I only know you from this blog. As I said in my last post of the night last night: “I value you.” “I learn from you” I have said it about many people on this blog, many times.

How was I not to surmise that it was I (in addition to rahrah and WJE) you were referring to when right after Dan made his evening post, you came on and posted that since WJE’s post, noname was demonized and had bombs thrown at her by blog monitors? We 3 were the only ones who posted to speak up against the postings of noname when you called WJE out about it at 11:45 am. There was no mistaking that you were referring to me (and rahrah and WJ, but I will not speak for them, only for myself.)

In fact, no one demonized noname any more than she did all by herself. The three of us simply spoke up with our own thoughts, feelings, and opinions about what the subject matter had become, as the exchange HAD evolved into one of religion, rather than specifically abortion. That is the nature of these types of conversations. In the time I have been reading/ posting, I don’t find that is that uncommon of a phenomenon, seems to happen all the time…. Like you and Dan talking about your home/ BnB—off the original subject matter, but certainly not off-limits.

So to be honest, I just really wasn’t sure where YOU were coming from. Sounded to me like you were saying it was okay for noname to say whatever she wanted, but no one else, especially a Christian, should feel free to do the same....

And, so…. when you posted your comment to Dan that you felt she was being demonized by the blog monitors, it kinda made you, too, appear to be (as you termed it) a blog monitor against myself, rahrah and WJE. Fact is, imo, we all have the right to speak up. Although RB’s guidelines are good ones, I don’t see it happening on this blog, which is one of the reasons I post on an infrequent basis.... not only do I have the time to sit around and blod all day/ night, much of it IS draining and, as Dan said: futile.

But this time…. I could not just sit back and say nothing anymore when I made my post. My desire to please you or anyone else on this blog, and/or my desire to be politically correct will never out-do my desire to be true to my God. Some people may think that sending the chain “If you love God, FWD to 10 people” e-mails are enough. I do not. I speak up when I feel lead to. (And I do NOT send or FWD those types of e-mails, either!)

I have no beef with you, either Yvonne and wish you and all others (including noname) the very best.

Dear gottabashchristians: (oops, I mean, noname): FYI, you are in cyber-blog world now…. The people that frequent this blog have no idea about your gender, age, religious convictions, etc… until you make them known.

All one has to do is click on the balloon below my moniker and you will learn a little about me. I make no secret about who I am. I see that you are not secure enough or maybe not knowledgeable enough to set up your profile page on here.

Yvonne, sure you figured it out, but it should have read "not only do I NOT have the time"

Ms Malone: I did not demonize myself, all those who do not see me as a good person or agree with my take on religion, demonized me. I don't believe in demons any more than I believe in god. To me they are one in the same. A superstition to satisfy the fraile human's need to believe in eternity and life ever after. This is any religion, I have no use for any of them, as all any religon has ever done, is cause conflict and war, suffering and persecution, loss of culture and personal pride. I see very little good that any modern day organized religion has accomplished.

If you don't know how to set up your profile page here it is:
click on the balloon under your moniker, go to profile (top right corner) click on it.
next page: click on edit profile and a page will come up that you can enter the info you would like to share with the rest of our little community. You can even upload any pic you would like to share also.
Now was that so hard?

Ms. Malone, I appreciate your response. I get along great with my Christian co-workers. On occasion, we will have discussions regarding religion, however most of the time we just agree to disagree. We all feel religion has no business in the workplace, so we really don't discuss it.

There are two subjects you should never discuss with friends and co-workers..........Religion and Politics.

Dan's post of " C'mon, she goads and perpetuates it. Dish and out and expect to get it back." is hardly a good example of maturity, imho.

Bullshit Yvonne, when someone dishes it out to you, you dish it right back. Nuff said, except be honest.

Dan,

If you only knew how wrong your assessment of me is you would be amazed. Over the years, I have often retaliated when attacked. However, over the years, I have also walked away when I see nothing but escalation of emotions and potential for bad feelings.

This is why I admitted I often fail but I keep trying to find a balance. Perhaps, since you are young and energetic, you are still up for the challenge of a good fight. I used to find that entertaining, a lively, at odds discussion. I am less inclined to consider that entertaining anymore.

It is, as you pointed out, futile to keep banging your head against the same brick wall. I still enjoy reading a good debate. The problem is, imho, it rarely happens in this forum anymore. I see no enjoyment in degradation of one's intelligence, character, beliefs or truths.

You and I have a long history. I believe in your goodness (although sometimes I think you intentionally goad folks yourself). If I did not like and respect you, I would not bother with you. This is not to say, I would ignore some of your posts, only that I would not offer an honest opinion when I think you are misguided.

As you already know, I do not read the posts of two or three individuals as they disturb my spirit. This is my choice. Except for those posts, I have found this forum to be a source of learning and entertainment. But from the direction it has headed in lately, those days could be a thing of the past.

Yvonne, in the interest of self-improvement, I would humbly request an example of where I haven't held to the list when dealing with you. More than one would certainly be useful to learn from, but just one will do.

Yvonne, I honestly believe that your concerns (from the direction it has headed in lately, those days could be a thing of the past) have been completely perpetuated by the recent addition of "noname/gottabashchristians" frequent postings on every LTE as of late..... but it looks like Dan and rahah have taken care of that (read "cold weathers" LTE from yesterday and the post she made this morning at 0833):

She claims, "This is my last post folks, as I don't care to waste my precious time expressing my opinion only to get rude and hateful remarks in return. I see that many of you can dish out the s**t but you can't take huh. Don't dare say anything bad about Dan or rahrah or any of you other backwoods hicks that don't know your ass from a hole in the ground."

And to that I say "Thank You Dan and rahrah!"

(Although with 5 e-mail addresses, I admit I'm not convinced that she is gone for good)

While I admit it is her right to post, she (or anyone else) should not be surprised at the reaction they get from posts they themself make. Again--- imo, that is simply the nature of the blog, any blog.

Your playground anology was a good one....we all chose when and if we want to contribute or walk away.... lt is my hope that noname really has walked away because ever since she showed up here she has demonstrated a consistent inclination to making provoking, abusive and inciteful posts.

ms. malone,

Thank you for a cordial response to my post. While I may not agree with the entire post, I accept this your perspective and am not going to try to change your mind. You, me and everyone else who posts here receives information and processes it based on our experiences. This I believe to be true, even if I fail to recognize it sometimes.

Yes, we do have to pick our battles, sooner or later. This was a hard lesson to learn when I had limitless time and energy. It's been much easier as I've aged.

This particular blog, has experienced many different phases since it's inception. The current phase closely resembles the first in that almost everyone challenged everyone else. That was when I was the only woman (a little later Lilly came along, then if not mistaken, you made a few appearances.) and felt I had to swing back every time one of the guys swung at me. Thank God I have learned to walk away in some instances. My life is less dramatic and tiring.

Anyway, peace and blessings.

Roger,

I do not want to hurt you feelings (being serious) but I am NOT constantly thinking of you when I make a post. I fail to understand why you think I am harboring a grudge against you and am taking a swipe at you each time I post. A for instance: When I posted about provocation, I was addressing Dan. Recently he had posted something I felt to be a trap. I saw no benefit in allowing myself to be goaded into accepting the challenge (or trap). So I walked away.

But for some reason you took it personal. Just like my post about people making cruel remarks. And the one about degradation of intelligence....

Sorry you don't care for "I feel" statements that can't be backed by scientific proof but I feel your benevolence is not to be trusted. Right or wrong, it is what my gut tells me. (And, as you know woman are guided more by intuition than are men.) Thus I am not interested in becoming more involved in conversation with you as I do not trust you.

I sincerely hope you will accept my position and not harbor hard feelings yourself. I mean you no harm.

Well Well, it looks like as the christians have won out once more, I see how it works, if you get someone in here that challenges your comfort zone you bash them until they get tired and fed up and leave. Hope you all have a wonderful day and remember WWJD??? certainly not what you have done!! I'm sure I'm not the only one that has been forced out of this little clique because of opposing opinions.
What a bunch of immature jerks!!
I believe I will have a word with someone at the N&R about the conduct on this blog.

You give your posts too much credit, Yvonne. I only care about the threads in which you choose to engage me. Note the wording, btw.

I can certainly see why you don't trust me, however, and how you're obviously "not interested in becoming more involved in conversation with you as I do not trust you" but for some reason feel the need to post against me anyway. I respond to your post, and you'll always either stop posting and wait for the thread to die off or start insulting me.

Clearly untrustworthy behavior on my part (imagine the gall of someone responding to false information that readers might take as the truth) and worth ignoring after an initial engagement and some proper slurs.

Keep it up if you feel it suits you. As always, see you next thread.

noname,

There is no need to worry about anyone running me off this blog. When and if I do stop, it will be by my choice, not because some man with a super-overinflated sense of self-importance feels like it is his right to badger/goad me into conversing with him and can't even follow the advice he feels so compelled to give to others. I have been criticized more harshly by better.

I take it with a grain of salt and figure it comes with the territory. I am aware of my faults and I admit they are many. However, I have learned not to trust those who play the games "lets you and him/her fight" or "Now I've got you, you SOB".

I learn from the experience and try to avoid making the same mistakes.

Yvonne, as I made my daily hike today, I thought about the argue blog.... thought about your roses/camellia analogy (which I also thoroughly appreciated).....

I know you live in the country, I in the city.... (AND work at the hospital--) so, maybe I am more "used" to the rudeness that pervades our daily culture... but, really, (unfortunately), it is everywhere, so can we really expect this blog be any exception?

It’s winter, cold, times are tough, people are edgy, everywhere, now more than ever. Do what you have to do, but don't let it get you down. Decide when you want to speak up, otherwise, "hand it over " --in great appreciation,-- laugh it off, and go on. Please don't begin to think about not posting, (I for one, and I know others too, would miss you).

I have always liked and appreciated both yours and RBennett’s (can I call you, Roger?) perspectives, also….in light of that, I hope you guys can settle the differences between you. I have grown to like you both, very much (and am selfish enough that I want neither of you to stop).

So anyway, back to the hike: despite the bleakness of the world (that’s not at all hard to find, pretty much the one thing in surplus supply these days): Over the last 3 weeks, I have noticed LOTS of beautiful blue-birds waking up, flying around, and that started at the end of January….. maybe that groundhog IS wrong? I “hope” so, I’ll take what I can get in the (tangible) “hope” department these days!...... Have you seen the bluebirds waking up in Siler City, yet?

…. just try and remember, the joy of the Lord is your strength! (Neh 8:10 ) Don’t let anything rob you of that (joy).
____________________________________________________________________

One more thing:

hey there, "noname".... "how you 'durrin?", (so to speak): I have but one thing to say to you: Please schedule a THOROUGH medical exam soon, you are concerning and I worry about your (especially mental) health.

Other than that, ( and I will stand by this promise): I will NEVER again acknowledge ANY post you make. Period.

bye-bye, now.

ms. malone,

God is indeed good. Nothing like a long walk to make you appreciate our wondrous world. Thank you for sharing your time and thoughts with us. Also many thanks for your words of encouragement.

I have many bird feeders in my side yard. Just watching the many varieties of birds indigenous to our area has been a blessing on more than one occasion. Enjoying the sights and sounds of nature often help me put things into perspective. (I even gave small bird feeders and starter food to family and some close friends at Christmas.)

As I told Roger in my post, I mean him no harm. He apparently chooses to believe otherwise. That is his choice. There is nothing more to be said or done about the situation from my perspective. I have held and continue to hold him and others here up in prayer.

But thanks again for your thoughts.

It's just a shame that so many of you would allow a few immature "drama queens" to dictate who gets to post (by way of railroading out) because of their opinion. I am entitled to my opinion just as the rest of you. But it doesn't seem to be so, as everytime I posted an opinion I was severely criticized or mocked, (Jesus was mocked too when he tried to teach the ignorant) and felt that I must defend my position.
THIS BLOG IS NOT FOR A CHOSEN FEW WHO SEEM TO THINK THAT THEIR OPINION IS THE ONLY ONE THAT HAS ANY VALIDITY, THIS BLOG IS FOR ANYONE WITH AN OPINION THAT WANTS TO SHARE IT.

noname,

You will get no argument from me that anyone who wishes to participate in this forum is entitled to. I even feel that way about the people whose posts I skip because they disturb my spirit. The way I see it is, I have a choice. I can read their attacks and get upset or I can read their posts and disagree or I can skip them altogether and have a good day. I usually pick the latter simply because the harsh things some anonymous stranger says to me is not worth my peace of mind.

This is what works for me. You will have to decide what works for you and employ it. Disagreements, sometimes harsh attacks, are the hallmark of this forum. Folks do not get booted for lies, attacks, vulgar language, lewdness, assassination of character, cruelty or expression or perversion. The only thing I know of directly is major cussing. You can call someone an AH, just not a mf'ing AH.

I realize you are angry and hurt. I do understand, believe me. However, this will pass. So why let someone, anyone rain on your parade today and spoil it for you.

There is some good advice stemming from this forum as well as bad advice. At the end of the day it is up to you to decide what is good and then discard the rest. Good luck to you.

Thanks Yvonne, you are a very wise woman, your words refreshed my memory of letting go of an argument for the sake of sanity. I had no idea that Dan was such a provoking person or I would have never started this at all, it all started when I had a letter published and he was the first to comment with a bunch of silly presumptions and accusations and it just escalated, I'm sorry if I ever offended you, as I know that there are good as well as bad in every aspect (religion, color, social class) of life. I was new to this blog and I was unaware of the little clique that exists here, but will avoid it at all cost in the future, if I do make comments again it will be under another name, it's not worth keeping the same moniker and being bashed every time I would like to make a comment, and I will certainly ignore any comments from Dan, Ellis, rahrah, Ms Malone or mamaboilermaker.
I realize that my comments do spark controversy much of the time as I am very outspoken and have been through alot in my life. (some bad some good) The things that I have revealed in this blog over the past couple of months is just the tip of the iceberg. I have always been talked down to and treated like I was unimportant by the majority of people I have encountered in my life. Altho most dont' realize that I am no slouch when it comes to intelligence and I question alot of things that many people take for granted.
At this point in my life (postmenopausal) I feel that I have earned my right to speak my mind, I will admit I do have a tendency to be a bit over the top at times, I guess it just comes with the territory. I have always danced to the beat of a different drum. And sometimes have very little tolerance for people who put themselves first and have very little regard for others and their opinions. I guess that sounds a bit contradictary, an eye for an eye. (so to speak)