News-Record.com

"With the truth in his possession, he releases only the information that supports his lies."

This is why these 'investigations' being called for by the bottom rung democrats in the house will never see the light of day.

Tony is always to be congratulated when he writes a LTE without the use of moron or idiot.

"In the past, despite philosophical differences, both parties put the country first."

I actually laughed out loud when I read this statement. Makes me wonder if Tony is conscious most of his waking time or if he stays in his usual oblivious state all the time.

Not only ignorant, but totally without a clue. The recent photo-op of Air Force One flying over the Statue of Liberty is just the latest example. One can imagine what went through the minds of those who had been there on 9/11 when they saw a passenger jet flying in that location, at that altitude, with a military jet following. One can also imagine their thoughts when they learned the truth: "What in the world was that stupid SOB thinking?"

Wonder how much that photo cost the taxpayers. The White House never heard of photoshop, I guess.

Obama, true to his nature, denied any knowledge of the incident. Riiiight. The POTUS doesn't know where AF1 is? Give me a break, Obama. This simply didn't happen without your consent.

You've gotta admit, Obama has balls. Most first termers lay back and then really pour on the corruption in their second. I guess with a few million wetbacks awaiting the amnesty nod, he's got little to worry about.

He hasn't even shown a corner of the reparations card. Maybe there's no more room up that sleeve.

And if Hillary doesn't sic her Vince Foster flying monkeys on him, us white guys may never get our women back.

So Moschetti, the right-wingnut from High Point, rants once again! And confusingly he tells us: "He (Obama) wants to do something, after saying he wouldn't, that has never been done before, criminalizing policy differences." Well, Tony, you ignorant little man, if administration officials who promoted the use of torture, e.g., waterboarding were acting in the national interest, it does not absolve them! If it did, all torturers the world over would use the same justifications. So I firmly believe the U.S. Congress must be vigilant to the perils of the subversive notion that any public official, the president, the vice-president, or even a High Point policeman posseses an inherent power to set the Constitution aside whenever he thinks the public interest or "national security" warrants it! That notion, "dim one," is the essential postulate of tyranny! And all Congress members swears an oath to support and defend the Constitution.

About $35K in costs according to this:

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/29/obama-demands-review-over-air-force-one-flyover-mi/

I think it's even more considering the cost of the fighter jets, the lost work caused by people evacuating buildings, the emergency response costs, etc.

Well said, truman.

"Well said, truman."

Gosh, then why aren't you calling people right-wingnuts, ignorant little man, and dim one Yvonne?

Memories of Demon Deacon.

Dan ain't no dummy.

"Dan ain't no dummy." Dan is just ignorant, as is his right-wing friend (TM) in High Point!

Damn, I love how the current clowns in DC are pulling us all together.
The love just oooozzes out of these comments.

"We currently have one party openly rooting for our defeat" ...,. the only party openly calling for our defeat is the Republican Party. Witness Limbaugh, Kenneth the Page, et al., calling for the failure of the American government.

The expression “Overseas Contingency Operation", for those who wish to know, was coined by Dick Cheney to avoid invocation of the War Powers Act and to cement Congress' abdication of its Constitutional duties. I first saw it on a set of orders in 2003.

I'm sick of calling people names and being called names. I've contributed to the negativity here as much as anyone but I am stopping now.

Can we get back to rational debate instead of conspiracy theories, rhetorical nonsense and personal attacks?

"And all Congress members swears [sic] an oath to support and defend the Constitution". The Republican Congress violated that oath as did the Democratic Congress.

"We have a party owned by the far left that hates, and wants to destroy America." I've heard one Republican leader call for secession, which would certainly lead to civil war. Apparently this extremist in the Republican Party actually advocates destruction of America. Not even the Taleban could do more to destroy this country than planting the seeds of dissolution and secession.

So why all the extremism these days? I remember long discussions with people in the seventies and eighties over differing policies and opinions. The difference then was we each shut up and listened to the other person and did not start calling each other "wingnut" or "America-hater".

The extreme wings of each Party are moving into dangerous territory, one calling for secession and planting false rumors about everything the other might be doing (R), and the other completely ignoring a majority of the Citizens, spending money like mad on pork projects and wasting time (D).

ghost, there are plenty of right-wing clowns at this site to keep me chuckling!

So now we hear from vereise, the "peacemaker. First, "Taleban" {sic}. Then, "and the other completely ignoring a majority of the Citizens, spending money like mad on pork projects and wasting time.(D)" ("You talk good as a right-wingnut should.") But the "majority" rules today! Haven't you heard? We won the election!

Dan, according to Air Force spokeswoman Anne Klein that little flyby costs us $328,835. But what the hell, when you're creating over $1.7 trillion dollars in deficits whats a few hundred thousand. And Dan, you were correct about the procedure I described yesterday. Funny how people care so much about terrorists, oops, I mean enemy combatants, no I mean freedom fighters, but they have no problem murdering babies. If given the choice do you think the Somali volunteer coast guard would choose water boarding or having their head explode like a ripe watermelon?

Hey Truman, you need to stop filling this space when you're not taking your meds. Do the nurses know that you're out of your room? How did you get out of your shackles? I think with the proper treatment (another lobotomy), you will be ready for polite society in another 10-15 years.

In the meantime please keep up the good work, as you're proving conclusively my long held contention that liberalism is merely a form of mental illness. And remember, as General Motors goes, so goes America! Thanks, O.

"Hey Truman, you need to stop filling this space when you're not taking your meds."

Listen to Tony, he knows the effects of not taking meds! (usually it's a LTE(;-}).

Yvonne, I've heard that "laughing out loud" at things that are not funny is not a good sign. What exactly was it that made you, "laugh out loud?" Was it the right rooting for the Japanese and Germans, or the Viet Cong, or the N. Vietnamese? Did the right tell us the WWII was lost after some early major mishaps? Did the right release classified information in an attempt to help our enemies?

If you've stopped laughing out loud, perhaps you can tell us what you found so amusing.

The One, I thought $35K sounded awfully cheap. Did the $328K include the fighter jet escorts?

I know it doesn't include the other items I mentioned, lost productivity, etc.

I enjoyed your post yesterday, keep going. Although you may have to change your name, it's already taken and Oprah may sue you for copyright infringement.

tonymo (or less), so nice of you to respond to my comments re your rants! You know, I suspect you may be a secret liberal activist pretending to be a lunatic in order to make right-wingnuts appear ridiculous! And I find it very interesting that when you write letters to the editor, such stupid things are stated-written! The sad part is that the News and Record continues to print your letters (rants) as if you were a rational person. Have a good day.

Man, so many points, so little time.

Air Force One is the desingation of a plane while it is carrying the President. When he is not on board, it is not Air Force One. The Air Force maintains more than one airplane that is capable of being Air Force One. The Air Force provides this service. To think that any President knows the location and status of all the planes that COULD serve as Air Force One is rediculous. Presidents have more important things to do than to micromanage what these planes are doing, when they are in the shop, who the pilots are, where they are being refueled, etc.

All the President needs is it there for him when he has to go somewhere. The handling and itenerary is left to the Air Force.

Keeping tabs on the status of multiple planes is not a job for the President.

Sooooooo, it cost 325K? Know how much I care? None. At all. Not one little, tiny ounce. I've tried to care. Honestly I have. But I can't.

I wonder how much an aircraft carrier costs? Or a tank. Hell, I wonder how much a single, unarmoured Humvee with a .50 caliber machine gun mounted on it costs? That 325K starting to look a little insignificant? Good. Because it is. The only type of outrage I can envision having over the price tag is manufactured outrage.

Now, is there a problem with what they did- ie scaring people? Good issue! Very debateable with some good points being able to be made. But even still, tying in 325K to a boondoggle still makes the 325K irrelevant, though the boondoggle itself remains a debateable discussion.

"Air Force One is the desingation of a plane while it is carrying the President."

Wrongo, it's the designation for any USAF aircraft carrying the president. If Obama hopped on George Soros jet it would not be Air Force One.

It's just a bit easier to refer to the two planes primarily designated for presidential travel as Air Force One, rather than "a Boeing VC-25 without the president on board". These two planes are commonly referred to as Air Force One even when he's not on board.

"To think that any President knows the location and status of all the planes that COULD serve as Air Force One is ridiculous."

All of the USAF planes yes, but the two VC-25s? Doubtful. You would think if a Boeing VC-25 without the president on board was going to pass over NYC at low altitude 1) someone would have thought this could cause concern to the public in the wake of 9/11 and notified the mayor and other authorities 2) Obama or at least some of his higher ups would have known about it.

My favorite response was from that buffoon Robert Gibbs. At a press briefing he told a reporter he should contact the White House!! Gibbs is the White House Press Secretary, he is the White House!! Look at this lame guy stuttering and stammering, complete with a, you guessed it, White House emblem behind his head!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD5zeEDkysU

I hope Obama never gets rid of this guy, the entertainment he provides is priceless.

"That 325K starting to look a little insignificant?"

I'll take it.

It's shocking to read most of these comments. It's also shocking to discover all the bitterness and ignorance that fuels people like Limbaugh, Coulter, et al.
Question: Is there some sort of McVeigh-unabomber style "patriot compoud" in Guilford County that people are totally unaware of or are Tony and his crew just waiting to move to Texas in time for it's desired succession?

"It's shocking to read most of these comments. It's also shocking to discover all the bitterness and ignorance that fuels people like Limbaugh, Coulter, et al."

Like this one Fielder?

"You know, I suspect you may be a secret liberal activist pretending to be a lunatic in order to make right-wingnuts appear ridiculous! And I find it very interesting that when you write letters to the editor, such stupid things are stated-written! The sad part is that the News and Record continues to print your letters (rants) as if you were a rational person."

Or did you mean this one?

"ghost, there are plenty of right-wing clowns at this site to keep me chuckling!"

Or this one?

"Dan is just ignorant, as is his right-wing friend (TM) in High Point!"

So Fielder, it looks like the majority of the negative comments on this thread didn't come from a person who would subscribe to the beliefs of Limbaugh or Coulter. So before you get too shocked over bitter comments please display a bit of objectivity a look where the majority of them are coming from mkay?

tonymo,

"He (Obama) wants to do something, after saying he wouldn't, that's never been done before, criminalizing policy differences."

Gee, tony, it sounds so reasonable when you put it that way. The problem is that we all know that is not what is happening. Obama isn't criminalizing policy differences. The Bush Administration criminalized policy.

"Lincoln wasn't indicted for suspending habeas corpus, or imprisoning a congressional war opponent. FDR wasn't indicted for illegally interning Japanese Americans, nor Truman for nuking Japan."

That line of reasoning is precisely why members of the Bush Administration should be tried for their crimes. Then, perhaps, the next time when some quivering mass of mediocrity sitting in the Oval Office gets in way over his head, he will think twice before making a mockery of the Constitution and besmirching America's reputation.

Dan, so you think some of my comments today are "bitter?" Well, you ain't heard nothin' yet! I'm just getting warmed-up. By the way, why aren't you doing some volunteer work where your kids go to school insteading of wasting time talking about airplanes?

instead for insteading, of course.

I've now been called a right wingnut and a librul in the same day.

I call it "thinking".

The flyby was stupid and thoughtless. Photoshop is cheaper.

"the next time when some quivering mass of mediocrity sitting in the Oval Office gets in way over his head, he will think twice before making a mockery of the Constitution and besmirching America's reputation"

Too late.

"By the way, why aren't you doing some volunteer work where your kids go to school insteading of wasting time talking about airplanes?"

Amazing how some are worried about the activities of others they don't know, reminds me of liberal politicians.

I am a pilot and aircraft owner, thus an aviation buff if you must know.

Dan; absolutely correct about Robert Gibbs. I shall henceforth refer to him as "Baghdad Bob", the Iraqi reporter who insisted that the invading American forces had been repelled as our tanks rumbled past in the background. Or, better yet, "Gagdad Bob".

But being a "buff," Dan, is no excuse for not doing some volunteer work at your kids' school(s). Expecially today. Instead of wasting time posting-"chattering!" Right? Right!

The Air Force does not control Air Force One. It is controlled by Barry's appointee Louis Caldera. Apparently his taxes were in order. He is a civilian and replaces a rear admiral, it is obvious who would be more experienced in handling one of the most visible symbols of the USA. Ain't it funny how every dollar spent and every action taken by Bush was scrutinized and critisized with the claim it was patriotic to do so and now anyone unhappy is a "hater" or a right wing nut or my favorite, "sore loser". Never hear about the Iraq war deaths anymore, never heard any complaints when Barry sent 25,000 more troops to Afghanistan for his "surge". I better be careful, Janet "right wing terrorist" Napalitano may read this. Go Barry!

And Dan, I bet you could deliver a very interesting talk re aviation/piloting to a class of young pupils, providing you omit any reference to right "wing" (no pun intended) stuff! No kidding! Call the school principal and volunteer to do so! Seriously. Make this a "liberal contribution" to the school! Be a real leader for a day!

Now I get it, I think. Is Truman one of the indoctrinators in our left wing indoctrination camps, laughingly called schools. All one has to do is look at the graduation rates, test scores, and achievement comparisons with every other industrisalized nation in the world. Now I think I understand why despite spening more than almost every other nation, we rank near the bottom in scholastic achievement, but right at the top in self esteem!

You are correct, Dan, Airforce One is required to be a jet maintained by the Air Force for that purpose.

My terrible error of omission aside, when reading the rest of the paragraph, I feel comfortable that you were able to ascertain the gist of my post notwithstanding.

But, your nitpick is accurate. Not any plane, but certain Air Force planes.

"Obama or at least some of his higher ups would have known about it."

You would think that, wouldn't you? And you would be right. Some of Obama's higher-ups DID know about it. That isn't the point that was being made. It was that Obama didn't know about it.

The President, whether you like what he is doing or not, is doing a lot. Keeping constant tabs on the comings and goings of the planes that are made available for his official use is not something that President's need worry themselves over. If they did, then that would be pretty messed up, wouldn't you think?

Secretary: Mr. President, Ralph needs off next Friday, he wants to take his kid to the Mets game.

Obama: Uhhhhh, remind me as to who Ralph is again?

Secretary: You remember, he's the guy that fuels your airplane over at Langley.

Obama: Oh, Ok. I guess that's cool. But make sure he's back to work on Monday.

Secretary: Actually, don't you remember, on Monday you are taking your plane to get the oil changed.

Obama: Damn, been 300,000 miles already? Crap. I'm not taking it back to the Jiffy Lube. I don't think they screwed the oil filter on tight enough last time. Well, I guess I can wait until 400,000 miles. Just don't tell Michelle, she'll worry that it'll break down on us.

Secretary: Alright, but don't forget that the insurance bill has been sitting in your in-basket for over a week now, it's due on the 12th.

Obama: Yeah, I remember. It's just that since I upgraded the policy to include uninsured flyers insurance it messed up the autodraft. I keep meaning to look for the check book. Maybe I can pay it on-line.....

"That 325K starting to look a little insignificant?"

I'll take it.

Yeah. And I'll take whatever assortment of bills you have in your wallet right now. Because I want it doesn't make it a significant amount to you.

The sad thing is that TonyMo's and Rush's rants are pretty close to the current Republican party line. Yesterday, Senator Spector switched parties because it was painfully obvious that today's Republican party has no place for moderates like himself. Can anyone disagree with him on that point?

Kornbluth,

According to Willie Kristol it's a good thing for Republicans.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2009/04/good_news_for_republicans.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

"This is why these 'investigations' being called for by the bottom rung democrats in the house will never see the light of day."

What will the other memos say neo? How effective torture was? How many Dems knew about it? Who cares?

Do they have memo from God that says torture isn't immoral or despicable?

As for Air Force 1. The chances are very slim that Obama knew...very, very slim.

NYC should have been warned. That aside, this was a training mission...two training missions combined to save dollars actually...that turned into a photo mission (the part that everyone's focusing on). To think the President concerns himself with either of them...training missions or photos for AF1 PR is pretty naive...and IF Obama did concern himself with the AF1 photos, do you really think he'd make a mistake like this? This is the guy with probably the best public relations skills in the universe.

Add to that, Brian Williams, who is pretty well known for keeping his opinions out of his news said that, based on his familiarity with protocol after flying on AF1 or the backup that follows it around, Obama probably wasn't aware of the mission.

From watching the Discovery Channel, the President only worries about the plane when he wants to use it. The WH staff send an itinerary to the AF1 team and they do the rest.

My opinion--you're just searching for reasons to drag the guy down and, consequently, avoiding much more important issues.

Louis Caldera seems to have been the highest that knew.

Now, to go spend my time learning about more useful things....

"My opinion--you're just searching for reasons to drag the guy down and, consequently, avoiding much more important issues."

Frankly I don't care if he knew or not, as long as he isn't lying about it now.

Seems someone knew this could cause a scare but didn't seem to care:

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/04/29/2009-04-29_feds_knew_flyover_might_spark_panic.html

"It was a move branded "sheer stupidity" by Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) yesterday."

Wow, I finally agree with Chuck Schumer.

$328K is a drop of dew on a blade of grass as far as govt. spending goes, but it isn't too effective in a PR standpoint.

"Who cares"?

Democrats like Peloski who thought all of her political enemies were of the same caliber as Obama voters. Apparently she thought everyone too stupid or wrapped up in American Idol or Jon Stewart to remember she was well briefed on interrogation tactics...including waterboarding, and she never uttered a peep immediately after 9/11 for fear of political backlash. Now she was hoping to make political hay by appeasing the democratic base and attacking Bush for his abhorrent interrogation tactics, but it blew up in her face after it was revealed she knew all along about the waterboarding. (which btw, is not torture. Torture would be sawing off the ragheaded bastards heads with a dull knife)

That's who cares.

"Now she was hoping to make political hay by appeasing the democratic base and attacking Bush for his abhorrent interrogation tactics, but it blew up in her face after it was revealed she knew all along about the waterboarding. (which btw, is not torture."

So Dan,

Would it be OK for captured U.S. soldiers to be waterboarded.

We've executed people for doing that before, but is it OK now?

Uhhhh, you might want to pose that question to Neo Sir Firefly.

"(which btw, is not torture..."

Legally been torture since at least 1898, but come on over neo. I'll tie you in my closet for a few weeks, feed you only tofu burgers (to save the planet!), entering unannounced every so often to fake drown you, or at least to throw you in a naked pile with your closest buddies, until you admit that everything good about America is exclusively the doing of FDR (honorable mention to LBJ, of course!) or that Ronald Reagan was a transvestite whore with a penchant for being on bottom or that you once met with an Iraqi operative in Prague.

Tofu burgers in your closet rahrah? Is that an NCSU thing? What kind of beer goes best with that?

I suspect the families of Kristian Menchaca and Thomas Tucker would have been more than happy to have learned that they were merely waterboarded then kept in a 'detention facility' on an island with food, water, and a good portion of their captive country's population fighting for their 'rights' and demanding their release.

Oh, those are just for neo...I'll be eating NY strip wrapped in bacon outside....do as I say, not as I do....

...and probably Smirnoff Ice - Passion Fruit.

With all due respect, rahrah, I suspect you consider extra homework torture.

and probably Smirnoff Ice - Passion Fruit.

Tofu burgers and passion fruit, just what I expected from this younger generation

Kinda like the reporter tonight who asked Obama what "enchanted" him about being POTUS.

extra homework is just an annoyance.

So is working 16 hour days, I hope you will have to do that instead of some cushy 8-5 desk job.

Sorry Dan,

Long day.

Neo? OK captured U.S. Soldiers to be waterboarded?

That is the crux of this issue to me that we treat captives as we would want our captured people to be treated.

Rufus, your idea sounds good on paper. Why don't you run that by Abu Omar al Baghdadi and see if he will agree to it?

Meanwhile, all we have to judge by is the history of these barbarians, and a quick review of that says they are not very interested in your theory.

Again, the families of Kristian Menchaca and Thomas Tucker would have loved to have had their sons merely 'waterboarded'.

Sorry Neo,

If you answered my question I missed it.

It must be that public education system, Rufus.

Can't help you there.

It must be that publick edication system.

I'm guessing you're OK with captured American soldiers being waterboarded.

The naive will always be with us. Most of the time they provide some amusement and even a little comic relief with their worldviews and John Lennonish ideology. They are 'citizens of the world'...until one of their own or a close friend is the subject of a video where their head is being sawed off by one of these ragheaded bastards that they want to kill with kindness.

It's only when they're in power that I worry. Like now.

"The naive will always be with us."

How can I get edikated if nobody ansers my questons.

I can understand you not wanting to state that it's OK with you for American soldiers to be waterboarded in captivity because it's probably not OK with you. The question is do we want to become the people we hate or not.

I'll be as brutal on the field as anyone but once we control people we are the good guys.

If you ain't got it by now...you ain't gonna get it.

Honestly Neo, You aren't saying anything for me not to get. I've given you 3 chances to answer a simple question & you ducked it 3 times.

Give me a one word answer to the question.

Is it OK to waterboard captured US servicemen?

Yes or No?

I'm sorry Rufus. I never imagined that was a serious question. Of course I don't want our captured military personnel to undergo waterboarding. (or any other discomforts)

Then we should be governed by how we want our service people treated.

We are only responsible for our actions. If we catch the animals you are talking about then we will deal with them but we can't lower ourselves to the moral standards of our opponents or we become like them.

Would you rather have: (A) a 9/11 style attack in LA where possibly thousands of Americans would have been killed, or (B) would you prefer we 'not lower ourselves' to the waterboarding of Khalid Sheik Mohammed that led to the thwarting of the attack?

Just a simple A or B will do.

If the choice were that simple I'd take B. There's no evidence that that was ever the choice.

Your example can always be trotted out.

Would you rather have: (A) Another Dresden attack where probably thousands of Germans would have been killed, or (B) would you prefer we 'not lower ourselves' to the waterboarding of captured American flyers?

"There's no evidence that that was ever the choice."

No, he might have fessed up had the interrogators sent him to bed without his supper, but I wouldn't have bet my life on it.

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46949