News-Record.com

I'm with you Roger - we must not let them better themselves - else who will clean our toilets, wash our dishes, mow our grass, and work for the escort services ???

No we need to round them up and send them home!
I saw on tv yesterday that Colorado was 300 million dollars short!
This is at the same time, the state is voting to give illegals college instate tuition.
Seems the illegals straight democrat vote is important. Wonder if that's why the NR was against voter Id cards. Want to jump on this Doug Clark?
The biggest winner of the so call CHIPS act was illegals. Want to jump on this Mark Binker?
I asked Binker, what the illegals getting free health care on this bill, his answer was you have to show ID, not much of a problem, all you need is a NC drivers permit.

There is a principle behind the way some US citizens feel about illegals and it is too often ignored by others and the US government. If illegals came into this country, learned to speak English, adopted our culture, were self-supporting, obeyed our laws, lived unobtrusive lives and contributed to our economy, most of us would be bothered by their illegal entry but would not feel as harshly towards them. The proof is most US citizens do not express such negativism towards legal immigrants. In fact, most of us embrace legal immigrants.

And Monica, our problem has nothing to do with illegals bettering themselves per se. It has to do with bettering themselves on our tax dollars and at the expense of the home-grown kids. Legal residents' parents have to work two or three jobs to furnish their kids an education while we hand it to illegals free of charge. To me, this is morally wrong.

gee, yvonne, i don't think you can use effectively a moral reason (pro or con anything) for explaining your view to the majority of right-wingers who daily visit this site. for i believe they don't understand the meanings of the words "morals and morality." at least they post like they don't.

Welcome to the blog truman, I don't remember you around until recently, like yesterday. Here is a friendly suggestion; try to add something to the conversation rather than vapid statements such as your above one. To claim an entire group doesn't understand the meaning of morals or morality based upon their political beliefs is a very immature argument.

Yvonne and I go back years on this blog and have disagreed, the vast majority of times in a civil manner, and just about everything except for the subject of illegal immigration.

I totally agree with her post and especially it's conclusion. Right now I'm saving for my kid's college education, and to see illegals or their children get free education courtesy of the North Carolina taxpayer is morally wrong.

Yvonne,

Working in the construction industry, I have worked with many immigrants over the years. I know some of them are legal and some are illegal, but I don't know which are which. I do know that the overwhelming majority of the ones I have met are eager to learn English. Most, especially the younger, are rapidly adopting parts of our culture, both good and bad. Most are not only self-supporting but also send money back to relatives in Mexico or elsewhere. They are certainly contribuiting to our economy. Most are having taxes withheld from their paychecks. These are taxes that, if they are illegal, they will never see again. Most are trying their best to live unobtrusive lives.

I understand that when times are tough, most of us look for someone to blame. Most immigrants, legal or illegal, are hard working people that are doing the best they can to make a better living for their families. Kind of like you and me. I don't hold that against them.

If you honestly feel some immigrant has gotten something that should have been yours, don't blame the immigrant, blame the employer that hired them.

And that turd-fly color that looks like paint on their mobile homes? It ain't paint. It's disease.

Did this sympathy start when Tony and Stephanie wouldn't accept the trophy for first place?

No wonder Bobby jumped.

dan, thanks for your kind suggestion, and i like civility too. but i really don't mind talking uncivily to people i perceive to be, at times, uncivil. now, i must say that i agree most of the time with everything yvonne says on this site and, conversely, disagree with just about everything you say. sorry, that's just the way it is, no offense intended. and i believe miktay's post this morning re immigrants is very much more closer to the truth than what either you or yvonne had to say about the issue. lastly, i am pleased to know that you are saving for your son's future college education, and i suggest to you that you, personally, offer him a liberal education at home while he is growing up, teach him to study hard, and he may earn a morehead scholarship (tuition paid) for his college education. dan, you seem to spend a lot of time blogging. do you work at n & r, or, perhaps, the public library? have a good day. and again, thanks for your advice.

mitay, thank you for posting your very informative statement regarding immigrants, legal and illegal.

gosh, molene, why do you speak so crudely? i bet you are a lonely person who hates the world. get saved.

"Most immigrants, legal or illegal, are hard working people that are doing the best they can to make a better living for their families. Kind of like you and me. I don't hold that against them."

Legal is fine. The illegals have taken jobs from citizens of this country with tacit approval of the US/State/Local governments via (past) ease of driver's licenses, welfare, food stamps and failure to address the illegal component when arrested for whatever. Guilford County approves to the point the County Commissioners voted a couple of years ago NOT to sponsor a study to see how much illegal immigration cost the county in dollars spent for services on an annual baisis.

This should be an affront to anyone who is a citizen of this country. Go to Mexico and Central America and demand the same services without permit and see how those governments deal with illegal immigration.

gosh hugh, I don't agree with you at all. read mitay above. "go to the ant thou sluggard, learn her ways and be wise." yes.

truman, we share different opinions of sovereignty, citizen rights and responsible use of public money.

hugh, you are so right about our different opinions, i think. have a good day.

hugh--

"Legal is fine. The illegals have taken jobs from citizens of this country with tacit approval of the US/State/Local governments via (past) ease of driver's licenses, welfare, food stamps and failure to address the illegal component when arrested for whatever."

Let's say this, so hugh if you are an owner of a company and you hire an illegal. It's their fault and the government?

Carolina by 12 -

Brainwashed, the people who hire illegals do so illegally. The government looks the other way unless they need need some press time and raid a few large scale businesses for the headlines to make it look like they actually do something about it.

Much better truman. No problem with disagreement, the blog would be boring without it.

My son, and daughter btw, will likely get a liberal education in the public schools and I will have to unlearn their minds. I will also pick up the slack where the schools drop off. For example last week a liberal teacher named eric admitted on the blog that the public schools don't teach geography. Loving travel and hence, geography and different cultures I work with them regularly to learn about the world we live in.

"do you work at n & r, or, perhaps, the public library?"

Nope, I'm a self-employed consultant typing from my office located at home. On office days I can blog a bit, but tomorrow for example I'll be out of the house at 6 am to get to Charlotte, work all day and return around 7 pm. So you won't see much from me tomorrow for example.

"...if you are an owner of a company and you hire an illegal. It's their fault and the government?"

If the employer knows the person is illegal it's the employer's fault. If the person has all the proper documentation (real or cleverly forged) and is hired it's the govt's fault for allowing illegals into the country.

And one party you failed to mention of course, lastly if the person is illegal it is their fault too for coming here illegally, and also if they create or purchase fake documents.

Heels by 8.

Amen, Roger. As I've said before on this blog, I have no problem with them "bettering themselves" or attending school, as long as they don't do so on the taxpayer's dime. Why should they get the benefits that I pay for but I can't get the same benefits. A lot of them come here and get pissed off at the citizens of this country because we don't know their language. I'm sorry, I didn't realize; I thought we were in America, where we speak English.

If they are willing to go through the process, as long and time-consuming as it may be, and come here LEGALLY, then I am fine with them being here. I welcome them with open arms.

As I originally predicted UNC/UCONN and that didn't pan out, I'm going to say............

Carolina by 5. GO HEELS!!!!

hugh--

"Brainwashed, the people who hire illegals do so illegally. The government looks the other way unless they need need some press time and raid a few large scale businesses for the headlines to make it look like they actually do something about it."

For illegal immigration, government intervention on companies. Just not anything else. Gotcha.

Dan--

"And one party you failed to mention of course, lastly if the person is illegal it is their fault too for coming here illegally, and also if they create or purchase fake documents. "

I didn't fail to mention. It wasn't part of hugh's comment.

But since you mention it.

Of course it's their fault. If I were them I would rather die being poor in Mexico than to come use up American's tax dollars.

firerescuechick --

"If they are willing to go through the process, as long and time-consuming as it may be, and come here LEGALLY, then I am fine with them being here. I welcome them with open arms."

Just curious.

Are you able to tell between legals and non legals? Are you willing to ask them if they are and then say "I welcome you to America?"

I find that from personal conversations with people who defend the border hoppers, most have either a financial stake or personal relationship with an illegal. (paying for cheap labor under the table, or some relative is involved romantically for example)

Very few stand up and defend these lawbreakers on 'principal', once you get right down to it.

"If I were them I would rather die being poor in Mexico than to come use up American's tax dollars."

It is not our responsibility to provide a decent economy for Mexicans, that would be the responsibility of the Mexican people themselves with perhaps assistance from their govt.

The truth is the Mexican govt. encourages illegal immigration to the US as the "remittances" that illegal workers in the US send back are the 2nd largest source of income for Mexico after oil sales. From this right wing news source:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/27/yearly-mexican-remittance_n_161382.html

Of course those remittances are drying up due to the slow economy.

neocon--

"Very few stand up and defend these lawbreakers on 'principal', once you get right down to it. "

I usually call the police if I see anyone go pass the speed limit.

Dan--

Sorry Dan, I have to pass on reading that right wing news source link.

And I agree with you.

Either you're joking or you're not familiar with the Huff Post, I'd have to guess the former.

neocon, do you also believe that some principals have principles.

"For illegal immigration, government intervention on companies. Just not anything else. Gotcha."

Brainwashed, you're confused. Government is required for certain matters in society. It is perfectly acceptable to applaud certain actions and condemn other actions. I wholeheartedly support the border patrol. I condemn their administrative superiors effectively encouraging illegal immigration via failure to enforce existing laws.

Same for welfare. I applaud using public funding to help those who need it. I condemn a government that allows an entire generation to grow up sucking on the tit of it's welfare master. There is no quicker way to destroy a man's character than to keep him a child for his entire life.

Dan--

"From this right wing news source:"

You must be joking also then.

I do know what Huff Post is.

I don't read any news (mainstream) from either left or right.

I do read some Independant media.

hugh,

I think you will find me the least on this blog to be confused.

"My son, and daughter btw, will likely get a liberal education in the public schools and I will have to unlearn their minds. "

I can't say what truman meant...but a "liberal education" is a philosophy of education. A general description might sound something like, "an education broad in scope, covering many disciplines with intense study in one or two." It's sort of like college, you have a major but you also have to take some sort of general education requirements.

A "liberal education" is not, as you seem to think, equivalent to a "leftist education."

miktay,

Thank you for sharing your perception of illegals. Your comments are based on your experiences with illegals and I have no reason to doubt those experiences. My comments are based on MY experiences with illegals for the last 15 years. So why do you feel the need to try to convince me my experiences are wrong?

The predominately hispanic town I live in has formed my opinions, many of which are based on the reality of facts. Few illegals are self-supporting, most still do not speak English (thus necessitating translators to the tune of $30-35/hour). Almost all have free health care, subsidized housing, WIC, food vouchers, free (or low cost) drugs, free mammograms for the women, free in-home nurse visits for new mothers, free school lunches and after school care for their children.

They care little about blending or respecting our culture. Many are the "in your face", demanding types. And many have an entitlement attitude. It's bad enough when born and bred Americans display such an attitude, much less illegals.

So what if they work hard? So do (and have) many Americans that cannot qualify for the freebies illegals get.

But what especially annoys me about your post is the insinuation my experiences are based on some kind of blame game because the economy is in the toilet. I have been relating my experiences with illegals since the inception of this blog. Ask any old-timer.

I am intelligent enough to know illegals, conservatives, liberals, republicans, democrats, Bush nor Obama are not to blame for all our country's ills. I simply think charity begins at home and one takes care of their own before taking on the responsibility of outsiders.

tonight's spread is 7.5...i don't think UNC covers it but they win, 81-75.

rahrah, do you have kids in public school today?

A "liberal education" is not, as you seem to think, equivalent to a "leftist education."

That USED to be the case rahrah, but nowadays they are one in the same, especially at the collegiate level. Unless you attend Hillsdale or a few other exceptions. I understand liberal arts studies, etc.

Leftist education isn't very prevalent at grades 1 & 2 where my kids are now, I'll wait & see.

**************************************************

This just in, Lidia Monica Lopez, 41, ran a red light which resulted in a fatal accident. She was charged with misdemeanor death by motor vehicle and cited for having no operator's license and running a red light.

No license, sheeeshh. That goes back to our discussions last week of uninsured motorist insurance premiums.

http://www.news-record.com/content/2009/04/06/article/one_killed_in_burlington_crash

Disclaimer: there is nothing that states if Ms. Lopez is an American citizen or if she isn't, whether she is here legally or not. Even if she was found to be illegal it likely wouldn't get reported.

But we know there are plenty of illegals driving without a license and/or insurance. My buddy who is a cop tells me he pulls them all the time.

rahrah, do you have kids in public school today?

rahrah IS a kid, albeit a smart and funny one.

I like his tourney prediction too.

"I have been relating my experiences with illegals since the inception of this blog. Ask any old-timer."

Yes she has, very consistently.

"but nowadays they are one in the same, especially at the collegiate level."

Maybe at UNC, Dan. I can only relate my experience, but all of the classes outside of my major (it's difficult to put a liberal or conservative spin on Mach numbers and rudder deflections) have been pretty balanced and open-minded. Generally, they've been fact-based and discussion oriented...from Economics to Religion to Poli-Sci.

A relevant experience from my high school days...My biology teacher prefaced his Evolution lecture with (approximately) this:

"We're going to learn about evolution today. These are not necessarily my personal beliefs, and I realize that they may not be yours. However, what we learn is the generally accepted theory and your knowledge of this theory is what will be tested on the EOC examination."

I'm won't deny that there may be some bias education, but, from my experience, it's nowhere near as bad as many conservatives make it out to be, nor is it anything to be "unlearned." Personally, I think education should focus on fostering curiosity and imparting the powers of discernment. If this happens, students will be able to identify bias and form their own conclusions regarding it.

"rahrah, do you have kids in public school today?"

I'm not too far removed from public school myself...and I have no kids, much less any in school. Or, technically, I'm still in public school, as in a public university.

I do have a younger brother who is a sophomore at a public high school.

I'm interested in knowing why such information might be relevant.

"I like his tourney prediction too. "

it made me sick to type it, and I hope that extremely wrong.

rahrah, good defense of a liberal education!

You make a pulchritudinous cheerleader truman.

From the Seattle Times, even though it's five years old, likely even more so now:

"College faculties, long assumed to be a liberal bastion, lean further to the left than even the most conspiracy-minded conservatives might have imagined, a new study says.

By their own description, 72 percent of those teaching at U.S. universities and colleges are liberal and 15 percent are conservative, says the study being published this week. The imbalance is almost as striking in partisan terms, with 50 percent of the faculty members surveyed identifying themselves as Democrats and 11 percent as Republicans.

The disparity is even more pronounced at the most elite schools, where, according to the study, 87 percent of faculty are liberal and 13 percent are conservative."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/education/2002224341_professors30.html

Brainwashed, I don't believe you understand what my moniker means. It means that I am a firefighter and an EMT-B. That being said, I have to deal with illegals on a daily basis. And how can I tell that they are illegal? When we ask them for ID and insurance cards, (ambulance services can run at least $500 per trip), suddenly they can no longer speak English, except to tell us that they don't want medical attention. They don't want to be identified, because they think that they will be sent back.

Immigrants that are here legally, are happy to prove their citizenship or show their "green card". They go about their business lawfully.
They paid their dues, and should be granted the rights of such. But when you come into this country illegally, and then expect me to cater to you......I don't think so.

So many of them come into this country and then complain about the way things are, but they continue to nurse from mama's (i.e. government's) milk. Why? Because they are getting the milk for free, so why buy the cow?

dan, colleges and universities do tend to be "liberal bastions and lean to the left" and, at the same time many of them do not offer very liberal educations. And I thought rahrah's post made that point. So when I suggested that you, yourself, give your son a liberal education at home, while he is growing up, I certainly was not suggesting that you teach him to be a left-winger or a right-winger. Liberal as I was using the term means a generous, tolerant, favoring reform type of education in his child growth and development under your influence at home.

HOW 'BOUT THEM HEELS, BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you believe how well behaved the students of UNC were on Franklin St. last night after the win? I fully expected UNC to win but was prepared for pandemonium from a frenzied crowd back home. I am pleased to say I was wrong.

firerescuechick--

"But when you come into this country illegally, and then expect me to cater to you......I don't think so."

I do know what your moniker means. I think I wasn't clear. I meant when you are not on duty.

So let me understand your statement here. Are you saying if you find out they are illegal and are suffering, about to die. You aren't going to help a human being?

For the record, I am not illegal immigration.

Of course, I would help them. That's my job, my duty as a public servant. Everyone has the right to competent fire and medical services, but that doesn't mean you get a "free" ride, especially to everything else. Taxes pay for a lot of services, including fire and ems, (unless it's a private ambulance service), so when someone isn't paying their fair share, it's leaves a bad taste in the mouth.