News-Record.com

I do not know enough about the Employee Free Choice Act .. but agree with the professor (regardless of his by-job-title clearly a code pinker) that the Strength of America is in the Strength of its Middle Class.

Extortion and intimidation have always been reliable tools for increasing one's bottom line.

Another thing unions can do is drive a company into bankruptcy, as GM shows.

Yes, I know, it's not all the unions' fault, but a large part of it is. I've worked construction all my life, a brief stint (2 years) in a union. I've seen firsthand how ridiculous union rules and regulations easily double or triple the labor costs of a construction project.

Unions want card check because they fear secret ballots. Does that make any sense? Of course not, but they do. They know that many workers are happy with the way things are, and see the possibility of their employers closing and moving overseas if they become a union shop. I talked to workers in Montgomery, Alabama, a few weeks ago. They build Hyundais and Kias there, they want no part of a union.

Ironic this this letter was published today when this article was on the front page of the print N&R:

Jobless rate skyrockets in Guilford

Guilford County’s unemployment rate continued soaring in February, rising to 11 percent from 9.9 percent in January.

http://www.news-record.com/content/2009/04/01/article/triad_unemployment_rate_hits_115_in_feb

Businesses are hemorrhaging jobs and Dr. Morse's solution to end the recession is to expand union membership, with it's associated costs, and raise the minimum wage.

And of course that 1% of eeeeeevvvvviiiiilllll rich people caused the recession. Got it.

Dan, the "stat man," is Obama's approval rating up or down today?

Tell us, Dan, is the glass half full or half empty?

Dan, tell us, tell us, tell us, tell us........everything!

Unions have played an incredibly important role in US history in terms of worker safety, 40-hr. work week, minimum wage, child labor, etc. BUT
When unions go beyond protecting workers from abuse and move toward self-preservation and nitpicky regulations, they can poison business to the point of destroying it.

Anyone else listen to Allen Handelman (sp?) yesterday on this topic?

Good points eric and sawdust provides a personal experience of two years. Unions have gone well beyond their original purpose. Remember the other thread where I mentioned the ambulance drivers on strike in France? Wanna bet those drivers were union members?

I have personal experience to some degree as well. I'm a teacher, and am a member and school representative of the "teacher's union" (not really a union in NC). Before you chide me for typing during the workday, I have a student teacher who's conducting my classes right now. My experience with NCAE is that they bring about major benefits for all teachers, even those who do not join the union ("free riders"), they protect teachers who are treated unfairly, and they provide group benefits such as discounts and insurance. They also keep some bad teachers in the classroom. On balance, they are excellent for members, very good for NC teachers, quite good for NC's students, and okay for NC taxpayers. This is how a lot of unions shake out - they are great for the workers, especially those who join them, not as good for the employer and the consumer. Blanket statements that praise or condemn unions in general are careless - there is always a balance, and often unions come out on top. The letter-writer does not acknowledge this nuance when he says, "A return to higher union membership is a path to a larger and stronger American middle class", so he gets a thumbs-down from this liberal.

And, yes, I think those French ambulance workers were members of a union. Thankfully, though we have police unions, etc., we also have laws protecting from work shortages in an emergency. While I think lots of policies in France ("free" day care, health care, college tuition, etc.) and other semi-socialist countries would be well worth paying a little extra in taxes here, we have the excellent opportunity to learn from their mistakes, and to mold such programs to our much more fair and innovation-inspiring economic system. If Obama or any other so-called left-winger suggested allowing ambulance workers or other first responders to go on strike, I'd be against it. Actually I think this provides a great example of how Obama and most other Dems are not, in fact, socialist or even anything close.

In an earlier thread regarding the "free choice act", I said "Have you seen this article supporting a reasoned discussion to try to produce a reasonable process for determining whether workers believe they need to organize in a union?

Please pay attention to the gist of the article posted at
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/21/AR2009032101449.html?wpisrc=newsletter"

"they protect teachers who are treated unfairly,"

Yes they do! To the point I can only recall once in my 18 years of having kids in six different Guilford Co. Schools that an incompetent teacher was "fired" and that took 8 months to happen after the problem was identified.

And believe me there are plenty of incompetent teachers who in the private sector would have been handed their arses long ago.

hugh,

Nice job truncating my quote. It was "...they protect teachers who are treated unfairly, and they provide group benefits such as discounts and insurance. They also keep some bad teachers in the classroom."

You mention the latter but not the former. Teachers have an immensely difficult job on a daily basis, having to make major decisions very quickly. When a good teacher is falsely accused, thrown under the bus, etc., NCAE steps in to support them, if they're members. Even non-members get things like protected workdays to work on grades, some vacation days, personal leave, etc..

Did your kids have lots of "incompetent" teachers? How many of them should have been fired, beyond the one? Could you do their job better than they could?

Most teachers are incredibly dedicated, care deeply about kids, and work their tails off even when unpaid for it. In return, we are not always thanked, to say the least. Some teachers are burned out, just like the job security, or are genuinely incompetent. One downside to unions is that they can be used by the latter group to keep their jobs or move from school to school. This does not make unions bad, but it also shows that they are not the panacea the letter-writer suggests.

So it's eric, "the teach." Then why aren't you grading papers or writing lesson plans instead of wasting time on this site this time of day?

Excellent posts, eric.

I've worked for union companies and non-union companies in the same field. The unions put cash in my pocket. I was better paid because of them. From the non-union company, too. They had to pay competative wages, so all workers in the field benefitted.

That said, I saw all too often how union rules and policies seemed designed to promote the assinine, ludicrous and rediculous.

They remind me of the NRA. You can't have any type of reasonable, logical debate on gun control/safety with them. They see everything in black and white. For us or against us.

Same with the unions. Someone's a union man? That means their our man. Hand off, management. So what if he does 1/3 the work of the average employee. He's been a union man for 15 years now. Show him the money.

Want to see inefficiency at it's finest? Look at how unions can define management work from labor work. A middle manager at Roadway walks by a box that fell off a pallet. If he puts it back, that could be a grievance. Need more coffee cups for the break room? Find a dock-worker to carry the box for you, cause management can't. Foolishness.

By getting so hard corps about bull-crap, they hurt themselves. Which is really too bad. Unions were great for the country, safety, wages, kids in sweat shops, etc.

zeus,

I have a student teacher at present, so my main role is to get out of her way so she gets an authentic teaching experience. My first time having a student teacher, and this is the one thing I've been least comfortable with - I'm used to working my tail off at work, and now I have to find ways to stay busy. She's done next week, though, so I'm getting as much done as I can.

Trying to teach some of my friends on here for the moment... :)

"Have you seen this article supporting a reasoned discussion to try to produce a reasonable process for determining whether workers believe they need to organize in a union?"

Yes.

Binding arbitration is a deal killer.

"Teachers have an immensely difficult job on a daily basis, having to make major decisions very quickly."

Don't a lot of people who aren't teachers have such jobs?

eric, when I had a student teacher, I sat in the back of the room and monitored him/her -- so that I could later on offer suggestions. And, my friend, I believe it is your primary responsibility to pay attention to your public school job (all the time) during the public school day! Do I need to discuss this matter with your district school board member, Superintendent Green and/or your school principal? I am a taxpayer, you know. (I'm just kidding eric, but you always need to be careful about what you do and WHEN you do it! You're a PUBLIC school teacher!) Enough said.

rahrah,

Absolutely. But many in the public don't realize just how many decisions we teachers have to make during the day that have lasting effects on kids. There are definitely other jobs that are as difficult, but I would say most non-management jobs require less decisions during a typical workday.

zeus,

I spent most of the time with my student teacher (who was previously an intern who observed and assisted me) observing her performance. At this point, though, she needs to work with the students very cognizant that I am NOT observing. As long as they perceive me as being present and/or still the authority, she will not have the authentic teaching experience, especially with respect to classroom management. Or maybe I'm just making excuses for typing while I'm at work. :) Hey, you guys were doing it, too. What's your excuse?

I assure you that I'm a very good teacher, I love what I do, and I'm giving you more than your money's worth as a taxpayer. Can't wait to get back in charge next week - I'm teaching about the Middle East.

"What's your excuse?"

I'm self-employed and part of my taxes go to pay your salary. None of your taxes go to pay my salary ;--)

If I'm anywhere close to being correct about what you do, Dan, portions of his health insurance premiums have probably ended up in your pocket.

'splain that rahrah and what health insurance premiums he pays that have ended up in my pocket. I pay my own and would assume taxpayers pay a portion of state employees health insurance too.

I will admit that my 2 kids attend public schools, but I've paid taxes for schools well before they were born and still do today.

Don't you do some sort of training with hospitals?

I remember John Stossel from ABC's 20/20 documenting a show and writing a book titled "Stupid in America" in which he exposed & challenged teachers in the US that he could teach a high school class in NYC and have better results and the teachers union refused. Anyway here's a link :

http://townhall.com/columnists/JohnStossel/2006/03/22/more_teachers_union_myths

overtaxed,

Do you read anything that isn't right-wing drivel? Look at the ads on townhall.com - is this a source of news or an opinion site? Likewise NRO. John Stossel is a blowhard, and a rich one. He is the Michael Moore of the right, cherrypicking clips and snippets to make his point. He is certainly not a newsman.

The teachers union refused to let him teach a class because he wanted to make a mockery of public education, and they knew he would do it unfairly. How would you feel if Michael Moore showed up and asked to interview you? You'd probably try to avoid him, wouldn't you?

Public schools do have a huge number of problems. Probably the three largest are lack of parent involvement, student apathy, and pressure from those outside the education system (read: politicians, pundits, you) to perform miracles and show it numerically. Teachers unions do cause some problems, and I've acknowledged this, despite being my school's rep in the state "union", but they have also done plenty of good (especially for hard-working teachers like myself). But they are certainly not the cause of the mediocre education many students are receiving in public schools.

While this is not the norm, we have many students who seldom attend school, refuse to work when they are there, have utterly unsupportive if not combative parents, and fail their classes, yet are still promoted. The union adamantly opposes such practices, but pressure to have nice promotion numbers outweighs logic and any real concern for such students' education. Most of the public knows very little about what actually happens in schools all day. Visit or volunteer at a local school for a day and see whether John Stossel knows more than I do about the American public education system.

eric, yep, you're "just making excuses for typing while I'm at work." And you are talking the work, not working the work! So I hope I don't read you on this site between the hours of 8:30 AM and 4:30 PM today! (You see, I've also been a supervising teacher for student teachers -- seriously -- and I've never heard the language,"authentic" teaching experience!) No more N & R site visits during public school teaching hours! Comprende?

s

eric, have you considered taking graduate courses at UNC-G, and obtaining school principal certification? You talk like you MAY BE a qualified candidate for the program. Also, take a look at the Ed.D. program, and become a school superintendent someday! Suggest you mention the idea to your student-teacher's faculty advisor to hear his/her suggestions re the matter. Administrative positions in public education pay pretty good. And, as an administrator, in the right position, you could spend unlimited amounts of time typing posts! Re "parental involvement:" read the literature on PI in the federal Head Start program. I've always thought it's "parent advisory council" component should be adaptable to every public school! Why not your school? Propose and establish same, and receive a "Teacher of the Year Award!" Good luck!

Lastly, eric, Mo's "take home" (salary and benefits) amounts to about $200,000 annually? mmmmmmm, good!

"None of your taxes go to pay my salary ;--)"

Love ya Dan, but wrong - I think.

Alcohol Breath Testing equipment is used by Police and other Officials to legally determine how “drunk” someone has become, or officially for the “prevention of alcohol/drug-related crashes”.

This is a national thing, but using NC as the example:

“The Governor’s Highway Safety Program (GHSP) [was] created in 1967 .. to contract with the U.S. Department of Transportation for the purpose of securing funding through the Highway Safety Act of 1966, Section 402. This funding provides for the administration of a highway safety program designed to reduce traffic crashes and the resulting deaths, injuries and property damage.”

Check in this link "Federal Dollars" vs. the "State/Local Share"

http://www.ncdot.org/planning/development/TIP/TIP/ghs/ghsp.pdf

There is no comparison. Almost universally, Federal Dollars far exceeds the State/Local Share. One may be a member of MADD (Mothers against Drunk Drivers) or DAMM (Drunk against Mad Mothers) … but the point is those who constantly tout “All they do is TAKE My Money” are either being disingenuous or simply not looking at the real picture.

Care to comment?

You're wrong JDR. I work with private businesses and could count the number of govt. clients on one hand, none of them federal or state btw.

Zeus,

Already had Teacher of the Year, and have no desire to be a principal or administrator. While most of my students and most of the teachers are great people and work hard, I can deal a lot better with an obstinate lazy 12-yr.-old than with an obstinate lazy employee!

I got my M. Ed. from UNC-G and am National Board certified. I'm doing okay, and I love teaching kids about Africa, Asia, and Australia, so I will probably stick with this position till I retire, if it sticks around.

Before you get mad at me for typing at work, I've completed lots of work today, including grading papers, recording grades, printing certificates, printing grade reports, organizing a chess tournament, communicating with students and co-workers, planning and preparing for next week's unit, adding to my school's newslettr, and completing several online evaluations of my student teacher. I know exactly what my students and the student teacher are doing at the moment. I'm pretty good at multi-tasking.

"You're wrong JDR”

So if it’s not Blood Alcohol .. throw a bone – what general product line?

Give us a chance to vindicate you!

Oooops, I'm mistaken JDR, I have two VA hospitals who buy supplies a couple times a year, totals are around 3 to 4 hundred bucks a year. So I guess I must admit that a few hundred bucks per annum come from the Feds. It does feel good sending them a bill for a change.

You got me. Mea culpa.

disclose a bit, Dan .. wha are you afraid of?

If you are sensitive, sent it to my e-mail. I promise to not disclose.

We'll get together and fly sometime JDR, I can take a guy who is 11 years older as long as you weigh less than 200 lbs.

I'm sorry I neglected my 2 federal clients. They are so minimal I forgot about them.