News-Record.com

Foxx apologized to the deceased's mother for her remark. End of story.

There is ignorance everywhere, John, in every city, state and country. Besides Foxx couldn't hold a candle to Helms when it comes to being an embarrassment to our state. Although Helms is dead, his bigoted legend lives on.

Ah the tolerant left that supposedly celebrates diversity. Two letters today in which the writers disagree with 1) an opinion from Davenport and 2) a statement from Virginia Fox. Two letters in which the proposed remedy is identical: shut them down. Davenport doesn't deserve publication and Fox's political career should be ended.

Look what happened to Miss CA Carrie Prejean who made the dastardly statement that she, that she....gulp....believed marriage should be between a man and a woman.

Whatever happened to the concept of freedom of speech? Now it seems only only PC speech is allowed.

Dan,

I, as a left-winged liberal, do not object to disagreement. There is nothing that makes me think more than to have someone disagree with something I've said. That being said, I object to people being rude, hurtful and cruel. Just because someone has the right to say almost anything they want doesn't mean they should. When someone crosses the line of decency and respect, they should pay a price for indulging themselves verbally.

We all speak in haste at times. But when it becomes a way of life and the offender shows no signs of changing their rude behavior, they deserve what they get. Just stop and consider your endeavor to get TLC banished from the blogs.

Whatever happened to the concept of freedom of speech?

It is alive and well. Witness the posts on this blog.

Nobody is saying Davenport doesn't have the right to say what he says. However, he does not have an inherent right to have it published periodically and get paid for it. He is always welcome to post his comments for free on this blog. He would feel right at home, I'm sure.

As for Foxx, of course she has a right to say any stupid or crazy thing she wants. It remains to be seen if the people of her district feel they are well represented by someone who tends to say stupid and crazy things.

Funny thing about free speech. When we open our mouths and make fools of ourselves, other people are free to open their mouths and tell us we are fools.

Amen, miktay.

Yvonne as an left wing-liberal when you said
" I object to people being rude, hurtful and cruel. Just because someone has the right to say almost anything they want doesn't mean they should. When someone crosses the line of decency and respect, they should pay a price for indulging themselves verbally. "

To whom is this a reference, Carrie Prejean or the scores of ultra left idiots who have attacked her unmercifuly?

Hugh, just because Rep. Foxx apologized for using a poorly chosen word, the story isn't over. She deliberately chose to bring up the case about whom the bill was named after, and made a gross exaggeration stating "We know that this was not a hate crime..." (or something to that effect). For her to apologize for the use of the word "hoax" does not excuse her from the fact that she was brought up the case in the first place, using sketchy "facts" to justify her certainty.

And Dan, the concept of freedom of speech is alive and well. But the consequence inherent with that right is, and has always been, that while we have the right to say what we want, we also have to be prepared for people to respond to it. While you're criticizing the left for lack of tolerance, you're also trying to dodge the right's core principal of personal accountability. Rep Foxx did the wrong thing. She should be held accountable. Apology for the choice of one word does not erase the act.

“Don’t let Foxx be the face of North Carolina and all the great things it represents.” Mr. Allred, as Yvonne succinctly and eloquently put it in her first posting, Ms. Foxx has nothing on the late Sen. Helms. In my mind, I can still see the hate dripping from that man’s lips. And to think, the man served for almost 30 years. I can’t think of another NC resident who has done more harm to the state.

There was NOTHING RUDE about what Foxx said. She just repeated what was reported on 20/20 (known for its liberal leaning, I guess that is why the left wingnuts didn't curcify 20/20 like they have Foxx). And she repeated it in order to argue against a law that is not needed and the law could even be viewed as favoring one race over another.
I guess liberals think only conservatives can be rude. How rude is it to continue to kick Jesse Helms around after he is dead? (Basically the same thing you left wingnuts are claiming Foxx is doing to M. Sheppard.) How does that make his family feel? By the way NC would not be the great state it is today without Jesse Helms. Jesse brought more money into this state than any left wing liberal has EVER brought in. Jesse was a true Statesman.

If Carrie Prejean had made the statement that all people should have the right to marry the person they love can you imagine the outcry from conservatives? They would be screaming for her to step down especially in light of the latest photographs.

Conservatives continue to be inconsistent with their message and that heavily damages their credibility. Its the hypocrisy stupid.

“Jesse was a true Statesman.”

“No intelligent Negro citizen should be insulted by a reference to this very plain fact of life. It is time to face honestly and sincerely the purely scientific statistical evidence of natural racial distinction in group intellect. ... There is no bigotry either implicit or intended in such a realistic confrontation with the facts of life. ... Those who would undertake to solve the problem by merely spending more money, and by massive forced integration, may be doing the greatest injustice of all to the Negro.” – Sen. Helms.

I don’t know if the quote above is typical of a statesman, or if the constant reference to African Americans as “Fred,” or his singing of “Dixie” to offend then Sen. Carole Mosley Braun are other signs of statesmanship. I do know that they are all attributable to Sen. Helms. I obviously do not know the true meaning of statesmanship.

AJ is wrong.
Conservatives have come to expect left wing opinions from the left coast. If Carrie Prejean had made the statement that all people should have the right to marry the person they love...
that would have been nothing new, coming from the land of the idiots. But it is liberals who brought this issue up and have kept it brewing, only because this beautiful contestant gave a trueful answer to a gotcha question.

Beachwalker is wrong. Foxx didn't simply repeat a claim from the 20/20 piece. She stated as fact what the piece had merely called into question. Her quote:
"I also would like to point out that there was a bill -- the hate crimes bill that's called the Matthew Shepard bill is named after a very unfortunate incident that happened where a young man was killed, but we know that that young man was killed in the commitment of a robbery. It wasn't because he was gay. This -- the bill was named for him, hate crimes bill was named for him, but it's really a hoax that that continues to be used as an excuse for passing these bills..."

I have read the transcript of the 20/20 piece from 2004, and the claims Rep. Foxx made with cretainty are based largely on the retraction of the convicted murderers, who in the same piece are proven to still be lying about the facts of the case. For her to hide behind this 20/20 piece, and contend that it's airing four years ago constitutes widely accepted belief, is irresponsible and she should be held accountable for it.

I cannot find a transcript of the Foxx speech on the house floor, so I do not know if her issue was with the bill, or just the naming of it. But my position from a few days ago, that has still not been addressed, is that if she has an issue with hate crimes legislation, then fine, tackle the merits of the bill. Going after the naming of the bill is diversion from the issue.

And I was hoping to avoid the comparisons to "Statesman" Helms, because I think it will ultimately garner more votes for Foxx. But the minute I saw the clip of Foxx's speech, I was reminded of the despicable way that "Statesman" Helms treated debate on the funding of AIDS treatment. Rather than debate the merits of the act, he chose to tackle why it was named after a hemophiliac child who had contracted AIDS, rather than a gay person. What a champion of the people he was.

Regardless of her view, Carrie Prejean didn't answer the question eloquently, or at least with any poise. That should be the criteria for judgment...not if the contestant gave the 'right' answer but whether or not she gave a 'good' answer.

Besides, her bumbling cleared the way for Kristen Dalton, Miss North Carolina, to win. We should be proud, I guess.

Anyway, Matthew Shepard's murder was definitely a crime inspired by hate. Now, whether there should be any legal distinction between this and another extremely violent crime, I don't know. But Foxx called this fact a hoax.

Her 'apology' was a standard politician's one...essentially meaningless. She deflected responsibility for her words to 'news sources.'

20/20 did report the theory that the crime was just a robbery in 2004. It has since been proven incorrect when one of the criminals who committed the crime confessed to knowing Shepard's sexual orientation and luring him into the situation because of it.

She didn't say that she was wrong. She apologized 'if the grieving family was offended' and said that 'hoax was a poor choice of words.'

It was a hate crime. This is inarguable fact. Foxx should be expected to state this explicitly.

I guess conundrum thinks this is more statesman like.

the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism. then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," quote from Rev. Wright (Obama's pastor of 20 years).

"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." quote by Hillery Clinton

"When the stock market crashed, Franklin D. Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the, you know, the princes of greed. Joe Biden, apparently unaware that FDR wasn't president when the stock market crashed in 1929 and that only experimental TV sets were in use at that time.

"I've now been in 57 states -- I think one left to go." (Obama)

"The point I was making was not that Grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn't. But she is a typical white person (Obama)

"Ah the tolerant left that supposedly celebrates diversity. Two letters today in which the writers disagree with 1) an opinion from Davenport and 2) a statement from Virginia Fox. Two letters in which the proposed remedy is identical: shut them down. Davenport doesn't deserve publication and Fox's political career should be ended.

Look what happened to Miss CA Carrie Prejean who made the dastardly statement that she, that she....gulp....believed marriage should be between a man and a woman.

Whatever happened to the concept of freedom of speech? Now it seems only only PC speech is allowed."

Again, as others have said. If you say it, expect to have others use THEIR freedom of speech to call out against you. It works both ways Dan.

And Ms. Prejean might not have become Miss Universe because of her comment, probably just as much because of her (lack of) grammar, as the content. She is being stripped of her title now because she lied on her contract, twice, saying that she had never been in a nude photoshoot. Her lies are the problem, not her comment. Of course, it is still completely hypocritical that a group that focuses solely on watching women in bathing suits for entertainment cares that one of its women... is seen in a bathing suit.

Oh really Beachwalker...its was the liberals who kept it brewing? After the pageant Carrie Prejean became a spokesperson for the National Organization for Marriage and was featured in one of their ad campaigns. She has also given several interviews and hired a Christian PR firm. Clearly she is the one intent on keeping this brewing when she really should be focusing on her job as a representative for California.

Conservatives can scream liberal media all they want...but the truth is people like Carrie Prejean and Bristol Palin are anxious to go on talk shows. I hardly see the media twisting their arms.

Great points AJ. The media is both a reliable scapegoat when it's convenient, and a useful tool for personal advancement. The right has the luxury of having it both ways. Sarah Palin has taught us that.

FACT: All murders are hate crimes.
That is what Foxx was saying. There are laws on the books now to deal with murderers. And NO ONE, repeat NO ONE (including all of you ALL KNOWING liberals) except the ones who committed the murder, knows the real motive behind the murder of M. Sheppard (not even rahrah) and THAT IS INARGUABLE.

If you say it, expect to have others use THEIR freedom of speech to call out against you. It works both ways
True: The point is: the question was a "gotcha" question to begin with and should have never been asked. It was asked by a liberal who had an adgenda. A question like that has NO place in a beauty contest. What kind of uproar would there be from you left wingnuts if a Christian judge had asked "Do you believe the Bible is the infallible inspired word of God?. And I will also say that question does not belong in a beauty contest. So quit your liberal lying. This is not about how "eloquently" she spoke. This is nothing less than a liberal lynching of a conservative.

AJ said:
but the truth is people like Carrie Prejean and Bristol Palin are anxious to go on talk shows.

Just like a liberal, you don't think anyone but liberal should have the right to heard.
FACT: A liberal with an adgenda started this crap. Carrie Prejean has the right to defend and fight for her position, no matter how much you lib wingnuts disagree.

"FACT: All murders are hate crimes.
That is what Foxx was saying."
No it was not! She was saying that the person after whom the bill was named was the victim of a robbery, not a crime that occurred because he was gay. I have written this about ten times now. If she wanted to say what you think she said, why didn't she say it?

"NO ONE (including all of you ALL KNOWING liberals) except the ones who committed the murder, knows the real motive behind the murder of M. Sheppard (not even rahrah) and THAT IS INARGUABLE."
The killers said during the trial that they killed him because he was gay. So we know the real motive. AND THAT IS WHAT'S INARGUABLE. I could look up the transcripts, but why bother? You apparently would ignore that too.

Howie G said:
The killers said during the trial that they killed him because he was gay.

Prove it.
Actually the killers said the motive was robbery. And it is also true that they did hate gays. But hating gays cannot be proven to be the motive behind the murder.

But what difference does that make? A murder is a murder. And those convicted are now doing time. Justice was served. All hate crimes are murder. Is every murder of a black by a white a hate crime? You better believe it. Is every murder of a white by a black a hate crime? There is no doubt. Is every murder a hate crime? YES. Foxx is right, no other law is needed. And the law they were debating could be viewed as saying murders committed on minorities are more important than murders committed by minorities. It is really foolish to have such a law. But liberals are known for doing foolish things.

I still stand by my post and thanks for posting it again Slaan. Freedom of speech is subject to PC norm. If it is violated watch out.

Everyone has the right to criticize Davenport, Foxx an Prejean. That's not the issue, what is the issue is groups who want someone brought down for their words not meeting PC muster, i.e. "I certainly hope the voting public takes notice and does the only conceivable remedy — to end her political career."

One non-pc statement and this woman should be brought down. Never mind her positive service and contribution to our state over the years. Happened to Trent Lott.

THAT is what I'm talking about.

*******************************************

Watch the video of this Perez Hilton guy. I don't keep up with pop culture so I have never heard of him until this incident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_QhM3TK2UE

You guys agree with a pageant judge calling a contestant a stupid bitch? Yep he has the right, but I wouldn't have imagined such unprofessional behavior.

I would assume Miss Prejean worked hard to get where she was and I commend her for sticking to her personal principles rather than saying the "correct" answer in order to possibly win.

When looking at that video it reminds me of how coarse our society has become, especially since the internet age.

People here can post in anonymity and say basically whatever they want, especially as the N&R doesn't enforce their terms of service. Most of us keep it cordial even in disagreement. That's a good thing.

Beachwalker thinks the question to Miss California was unfair. Lets take a look at what the other contestants were asked:

A question about using taxpayer money to bail out struggling companies. One on reporting domestic violence. A question about whether America should have Universal Healthcare and finally one about supporting Afghanistan in the midst of a recession. Those sound like pretty hot-button questions to me. I hardly think a question about civil rights is in appropriate based on what else was asked.

Thanks Howie and I agree about Sarah Palin..she wants to have it both ways...push her daughter out there to talk about abstinence when a few months ago the media was the bad guy bent on destroying her and her family. You can't have it both ways.

"Foxx’s comments do my home state a disservice"

I haven't noticed any signs of the state being disadvantaged as a result of Foxx's comments.

I HAVE noticed the crescendo of liberal whiners peaking and, as usual, calling for the censorship of voices they disagree with.

Mr. Allred, Ms. Foxx does not represent the fairy lobby of Ca. (much to her credit) and I have serious doubts about her concern for your feeeeeeelings on this matter. (also much to her credit)

"The killers said during the trial that they killed him because he was gay.

Prove it."

Is this sufficient?:
"...at trial, McKinney attempted to claim that Shepard had in fact made an advance on him at the bar, whispering a sexual proposition into his ear and then licking his lips suggestively. The humiliation he felt at the advance, he claimed, spurred a violent rage that made him want to beat Shepard. (The judge, however, struck down this testimony.)" (Note: It was struck down because the judge threw out the "gay panic" as an acceptable motive.)

I'm sure that will not be enough proof for you. (Also, why do you hold me to a burden of proof and excuse Rep Foxx of the same obligation for her comments?)

"Actually the killers said the motive was robbery."

The killers said this in 2004, five years after the murder. And they were proven in the same 20/20 piece to be lying about the night of the attack. So -- no matter what -- these men who were capable of committing a murder by tying a man to a post and beating him to death have proven to be somewhat unreliable. Shocking. They are not the point here.

The point is that Rep. Foxx chose to base her argument on the fact that these murderers recanted their stories some years later, in a jailhouse interview (the same interview that revealed thay are still liars -- the same interview that was immediately debunked by many sources).

You are completely off base on this topic. Rep Foxx is not saying that hate crime legistation is unfounded. She did not say that "hating gays cannot be proven to be the motive behind the murder". She said that the motive was, definitively, robbery. So you are using a ridiculous double standard, and assigning your opinions to what you think she meant.

I've written this over and over, and you have still not gotten the point: Representative Foxx was wrong. She has no more definitive evidence of the motive of this crime than anyone else. And for her to coontinue to refuse acknowledgement of this fact is reprehensible.

"Now living in the Los Angeles metro area, I realize more each day why North Carolina is increasingly appealing to countless others."

Good lord, you've had a gay mayor recently involved in a sex scandal (but who continued to receive heavy support), a hollywood Governor whose greatest talent is rehashing old Terminator lines, a bunch of freaks who are so concerned with image that they stretch their skin into monstrous designs in order to obtain or retain beauty. Let's not even mention the fact that the whole state of California is turning into a bankrupt cesspool due to your failure as citizens and your leaders to deal with illegal immigrants.

I think you've got enough problems where you live that you can stop worrying about problems in the state of NC.

Virginia Foxx is a loudmouth troublemaker but nothing compared to the bunch of losers you've got.

And Conundrum, Jesse was popular because he spoke the truth. In nice language, he pointed out the fact that blacks weren't on the same level as whites intellectually. He never really said why. The empirical evidence supports that conclusion.

Dan you might want to pick a better example than Trent Lott.

Sure the controversy of comments made during Strom Thurmond's birthday party forced him to step down from his leadership position in the Republican party but he remained a Senator for 5 more years resigning "2 days before the federal indictment of his brother-in-law who pleaded guilty to conspiring to bribe a Mississippi Judge by promising him a federal judgeship appointment using his influence over Lott"...oh and right before a new law took place which would prevent him from becoming a lobbyist for 2 years. His resignation became effective December 18th 2007 and he opened his lobbying firm on January 7, 2008.

But I do agree that Perez's name calling was wrong but consider the source. He runs a silly celebrity gossip blog where he uses locker room behavior to make fun of them. And his main criticism of her answer was that she used poor grammar and displayed little poise.

"He never really said why." Maybe it's because a decent education was kept from them from 1619 to 1954. That's akin to Michael Phelps bragging about being the best swimmer while keeping others out of the pool.

It's 2009. The test scores of 3rd graders still suck.

Maybe you want to extend that "1954" to "2009"?

Sorry AJ but Lott is a good example, you confirmed it, thank you. "Sure the controversy of comments made during Strom Thurmond's birthday party forced him to step down from his leadership position in the Republican party..."

That's exactly what I was referring to.

Here's another, Don Imus. What he said about the Rutgers women's basketball team was reprehensible. He personally visited these women and apologized profusely.

Apologies are not acceptable to the left leaning PC crowd however. The only acceptable PC outcome is for the offender to be taken down and their head served on a platter, that's what happened to Imus.

Interestingly this phenomena doesn't work the same way when a non-PC statement or joke is uttered by a liberal.

Remember last April when Hillary Clinton referred to Mahatma Gandhi as a guy who "used to run a gas station in St. Louis."?

There was a little press on the incident. Mrs. Clinton apologized, as she should have, and the matter was dropped, as it should have been. Did anyone ask Ms. Clinton to step down from her presidential bid or her senate seat? Nope.

There is a double standard, I know some of you refuse to see it as it contradicts your political leanings but it is there nonetheless.

***********************************************

Great post truth. CA has enough problems without worrying about a Rep. from NC. But of course that doesn't matter. Violate PC muster and you will pay. It also serves to deflect attention from real problems.

*************************************************

Interestingly, but not surprisingly, no lefties here have said they agreed or disagreed with this Hilton guy calling Miss Prejean a stupid bitch.

I would think at least Yvonne would take offense to that statement.

Sorry Dan but you are wrong again:

Dan said:
"One non-pc statement and this woman should be brought down. Never mind her positive service and contribution to our state over the years. Happened to Trent Lott."

Mr Lott made made his non-pc comments in 2002 and was hardly brought down..he served for 5 more years and then resigned due to an embarrassing situation with his family and his potential ability to make a lot of money as a lobbyist.

Also Dan said
"Interestingly, but not surprisingly, no lefties here have said they agreed or disagreed with this Hilton guy calling Miss Prejean a stupid bitch."

Sorry Dan wrong again. Scroll up just a little bit and you will see where I stated:

"But I do agree that Perez's name calling was wrong ".

Also I believe Don Imus is back on the air.

I'll say this as politely as I can: It seems to me that the right-wingnuts have more bodies than minds on the site today! And beachwalker is like a child throwing most of the "right-wingnut" temper tantrums today, rather than dan or neocon. Also, "liberal responses" are par excellence!

AJ said:
"Also I believe Don Imus is back on the air."

... But not before being made to bend over, and apologize for comments made in jest, right? Please, remind me the last time Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, or Jeremiah Wright were made to apologize for anything they've said, or were fired due to any comments they've made.

Dan,

For the record, I didn't defend or denounce what Perez Hilton said because I did not find it germane to the topic. Plus I was too busy chasing down supporting material in a failed effort to restate my point a dozen different ways so that it might actually sink in.

But since you think our lack of attention to this tidbit is particularly relevant, here you go: I do not approve of calling anyone that name. As for what his underlying rationale was, I don't care now, nor have I ever, what Perez Hilton thinks of a pageant contestant. I think his thoughts on her contribute nothing to anything I care about.

Hope that helps.

I understand Lott continued to serve AJ, that's not my point.

My point is that he had to resign from a majority leadership position because of one bad joke.

That's a big price to pay.

How come no one asked Hillary to resign after her statement?

My bad on your agreement with the Hilton statement, I didn't see it and am pleased that you agree this was over the line.

"Consider the source". That still doesn't justify what he said. Again this is but one more instance of how coarse our culture has become. Back when I was growing up no one would ever have publicly called a Miss America contestant or anyone for that matter such a name.

As mentioned, I know nothing about pop culture and Hollywood people, in fact I'm proud of that. I have no idea how many people are left on American Idol or who they are. I've never read a copy of People magazine nor watched Entertainment Tonight. I have never heard of this Hilton guy. Hopefully he will go back under his rock.

You posted when I was composing my post Howie so I missed you.

The main point about my posts has not been about this Hilton guy, it's about the consequences from the leftist PC crowd when a conservative breaks PC muster. Also how the phenomena doesn't play the same when a liberal breaks PC muster.

Check you guys later, I have to take my kids to find gifts for Mother's Day.

Welcome to the blog AJ, we don't agree on some issues but you, like most lefties on the blog, are polite AND offer substance unlike the 2:32 post, which lacks both.

Dan,

Climb off the high horse, my friend. I agree completely that there's too much "mock outrage" in our news media-driven culture, especially after my brief interlude outside our country. But it's not confined to one party. Anyone else remember the intenrational "lipstick on a pig" crisis? So I think there is enough blame to go around.

I guess if M. Sheppard was murdered because he was gay that makes him more alive today?

What murder is not a hate crime?

Just like liberals to want MORE goverment involvement in something that would make no difference. Is a gay persons life worth more than someone who does not believe in the gay lifestyle? That is what you libs are saying.

MURDER IS MURDER. And that is INARGUABLE!

And that is why I hold you Howie G with the burden of proof. Because to me it makes NO DIFFERENCE why this young man was murdered. HE WAS MURDERED. And those who committed the crime are behind bars. What you libs really want is for everyone who does not agree with you to be behind bars as well, so they can't express their freedom of speech.

Yeah, lets have more laws and more goverment control. That's the liberal answer to everything.

Dan,

"The main point about my posts has not been about this Hilton guy" -- Fine, but you did make a point of calling us out for not taking a position on what he said. If it wasn't that big a deal, you shouldn't have mentioned it. I read a lot of bigoted statements from people who agree with you (and this trend seems to have gotten a lot worse since I left, I've noticed). But I don't presume that you are a racist just because you fail to denounce them.

Good luck on the gift hunt. Our paths may cross -- I'm on my way to collect kiddies and do the same.

"What murder is not a hate crime?"

1. Abortion doctor killers that do it out of 'love' for the souls of fetus' and the doctor

2. Insurance money murders

3. Assisted Suicide (technically a murder)

are just three of them with vastly different reasoning

"MURDER IS MURDER. And that is INARGUABLE!"

I'm glad you are not a lawyer. It is very arguable. For instance, what constitutes 1st degree murder from 3rd degree, to manslaughter? Is a murder that comes from mental illness really the person's fault? Are there extenuating circumstances such as perceived threat/self-defense? I'm a legal layman (even though I am probably going to go to law school in a couple years) and I know this. Research your assertions before making them and liberals might start listening.

Yes Dan, I completely agree that Perez Hilton is an effin idiot and his comments are juvenile and reflect poorly on himself. But I think that about anyone who actually cares about celebrity 'news.' The question itself has a place due to the other questions that were asked to other contestants.

If y'all want to argue against hate crimes laws (which I am still ambivalent on), use arguments that are actually valid. For example:

1. We don't punish the motive for other crimes, why do it for hate?

2. Due to the motive, hate, the law de facto is going to deter anything

I would like to say; dead is dead, murder is murder, how you felt or thought doesn't change it one bit.
Every law passed is a freeedom lost, think about this as you clamor for evermore laws.

Sweet fancy Moses, Beachwalker, why is this so hard for you to comprehend?

For what seems like the hundredth time: My point if NOT about the propriety of hate crime law!!! And neither was Congresswoman Foxx's!!! Her comments were about the naming of the law after Matthew Shepard, NOT about the law's relevance.

If you want to debate hate crime law, write your own letter and get the debate rolling.

"Just like liberals to want MORE goverment involvement in something that would make no difference. Is a gay persons life worth more than someone who does not believe in the gay lifestyle? That is what you libs are saying."

Please show me where I said that. In fact, you don't know my opinion on hate crime law because I haven't written my opinion. And that's because THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE RELEVANCE OF HATE CRIME LAW!!!

"What you libs really want is for everyone who does not agree with you to be behind bars as well, so they can't express their freedom of speech."

What in the world are you talking about? When/where did I -- or anyone in fact -- write that we wanted freedom of speech surpressed by incarceration?

Perez Hilton got his start posting pictures of Paris Hilton on his blog after he drew in horns or a mustache or something else ridiculous. I don't know why he was a judge in the first place. Donald Trump probably does, as he owns the pageant.

Hilton said that he docked Prejean for her beliefs. This is stupid. While I disagree with her, it is admirable that she stuck to her principles, even if she apologized for them. I think she should have lost anyway because of her bad grammar. As for Hilton's comments after the pageant, I'd expect no better of him. He probably doesn't have any principles to begin with.

Beach, I mean, Howie's pretty much covered it. But I'll go bullet points.

-I am not arguing for or against hate crime legislation.

-If I was, I'd probably be more inclined to agree with you. i.e. there should be no legal distinction.

-I am saying that Foxx made a factual error. Under the accepted definition of a 'hate crime,' the murder of Matthew Shepard was one.

-Her apology was no apology. She apologized for the words, not the sentiments behind them.

-(For Dan) Foxx isn't my representative and whether she should be reelected should be (and is) up to the people her district. However, if she has any integrity, she should retract her statement and offer a sincere apology. She's certainly allowed to retain the view that hate crime legislation is unnecessary.

And, also Dan, Trent Lott and Hillary Clinton's statements are really in different classes.

"I want to say this about my state. When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We're proud of him. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over all these years, either."--Lott

“He ran a gas station down in St. Louis... No, Mahatma Gandhi was a great leader of the 20th century.”-Clinton

One of these endorses candidacy run on segregation and says that our nation would be a better place had it been successful.

The other plays on a common racial stereotype in a spurious attempt at humor.

A public figure should probably avoid making either statement but one is clearly more damning than the other.

So, maybe try again.

Back from getting mom's day presents. Was that you I saw Howie, the guy wearing an Obama t-shirt with "Left is Right" on it?

We got my wife an MP3 player, she's been wanting one.

The reason I brought up this Hilton guy a few times is that he is the epitome of those hypocrites who preach "tolerance" yet become very intolerant when opposing views are stated. His statements have made little press, imagine that.

But just imagine this scenario. Miss CA (or any state for that matter) is a lesbian. One of the judges is conservative, who doesn't support gay marriage, and asks her about gay marriage, which she obviously supports. Then said judge goes on the internet and launches a similar vicious attack against Miss CA and calls her a stupid bitch. Do you think the PC crowd would remain silent on the matter?

Same for you rahrah. If Romney, Huckaby, McCain or any other R candidate had uttered the same Gandhi "joke" do you think the PC crowd would have been silent? No, they would be up in arms calling for the offenders head, just as they did Lott & Imus.

There is a double standard and I understand why you guys cannot truly see it.

I always thought if someone made a mistake and offered a sincere apology, well....that should be accepted. You know....forgiveness....redemption.

Doesn't work that way with the PC crowd when the offender is a conservative.

"If Romney, Huckaby, McCain or any other R candidate had uttered the same Gandhi "joke" do you think the PC crowd would have been silent? No, they would be up in arms calling for the offenders head, just as they did Lott & Imus."

Give me a Republican candidate that has uttered such a joke and show me his or her media castigation and we'll talk. Lott's no good as I've shown you the differing degree.

"I always thought if someone made a mistake and offered a sincere apology, well....that should be accepted. You know....forgiveness....redemption."

Are you talking about Foxx? Show me a sincere apology.

As for double standards, I'm not blind. There very well may be one for some but I fear that you might be generalizing the likes of Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton or the newest political fame-hound to all liberals or all conservatives.

Why has this story not been reported by the N&R. This 16 year old was taken into custody by Federal agents right here in NC and the local and national media have ignored it. Anybody want to guess why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFVQ0HZz2mc

"Give me a Republican candidate that has uttered such a joke and show me his or her media castigation and we'll talk."

New Jersey:

http://www.politickernj.com/matt-friedman/21430/pemberton-gop-committeeman-resigns-over-obamaoj-remarks

And they eat their own in Florida:

http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2009/02/gop-officials-r.html

Penna:

http://blogs.bet.com/news/newsyoushouldknow/politics-college-republican-chief-forced-to-resign/

Colorado, I'll be there next month:

http://colorado.mediamatters.org/items/200710250004

This woman actually has a point except the 2 million people who converged on DC weren't all black:

http://www.newser.com/story/50090/florida-goper-resigns-after-tasteless-katrina-joke.html

And another:

http://orangejuiceblog.com/2009/02/republican-mayor-resigning-in-los-alamitos/

"Top Democrats and gay rights advocates blasted comments by Sen. Rick Santorum in which he appeared to compare homosexuality to incest, bigamy and adultery, and they called on the Pennsylvania Republican to repudiate the remarks.

One prominent Democratic group Tuesday also called on Santorum to resign his leadership post in the Senate."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/04/22/santorum.gays/

OK I'm tired.

As for apology, I meant Imus and Lott. Both apologized to no avail. Hillary apologized and the matter was dropped.

BTW, this doesn't mean I agree with the comments given by some of these politicians.

But I do find the question interesting that so many people (not just blacks) could converge on DC for the inauguration but couldn't get out of New Orleans.

rahrah, the other team that plays in the RBC Center just won convincingly 4-1.

Way back in this thread, Beachwalker said "Jesse brought more money into this state than any left wing liberal has EVER brought in".

Now look at that again: "Jesse was a true Statesman" because he manuvered into NC federal money from taxpayers in other states. What Conservative principle is that?

@overtaxed:

You can thank Bush & co for the Patriot Act. And don't forget to spit on the congresspeople who were too scared to fight for our civil liberties and rights.

@Dan:
That is because DC is a modern, well designed city that is built to handle large masses of people. New Orleans is a poor, run down city that hasn't even heard the term urban, nonetheless planning. Louisiana both has a bunch of natural obstacles to adequate mass movement, as well as a chronically stupid government on all sides. Plus, people had days to head into DC. New Orleans had have a day to get out.

"In nice language, [Jesse] pointed out the fact that blacks weren't on the same level as whites intellectually ... The empirical evidence supports that conclusion."

Jeeze I've read it all now!

"My point is that he had to resign from a majority leadership position because of one bad joke."

Who FORCED Trent to step down? How can anyone / anything but the Republican Leadership be held accountable?

ghost said:

"Every law passed is a freeedom lost, think about this as you clamor for evermore laws."

Glad you have accepted my argument about Abortion, ghost.

"Who FORCED Trent to step down?"

From Wiki:

"Under pressure from Senate colleagues, and having lost the support of the White House, Lott resigned as Senate Republican Leader on December 20, 2002."

Doesn't matter who forced him, that's a point I made in my 9:08 post, they will eat their own. People, especially politicians, are so afraid of being even remotely violating PC rules, thus labeled racist, homophobic, etc. that they will put their own on the chopping block as well.

Oh I'm sorry, Dan ..

When I read " ... what is the issue is groups who want someone brought down for their words not meeting PC muster ... " followed by a wonder: "If Romney, Huckaby, McCain or any other R candidate had uttered the same Gandhi "joke" do you think the PC crowd would have been silent? No, they would be up in arms calling for the offenders head, just as they did Lott & Imus ... "

.. implied a politial bias. How could I be so stupid.

You don't seem to understand the concept JDR. PC rules have crept into place over many years. They are not written, but everyone knows them or should know them.

They mainly apply to minorities such as blacks, gays, certain religions such as Islam, and ethnic groups to protect them from any type of criticism or "offensive" remarks, whether warranted or not. These groups most often identify themselves with the left. There are no PC rules that apply to white men, Christians, and the obese.

When a PC rule is broken, the offended and their like minded supporters will call for the offender to resign or otherwise suffer punishment for such violation. That is only if the offender is of conservative persuasion, hence Hillary Clinton was not asked to resign from anything for her violation.

Many conservatives, particularly politicians, are so deathly afraid of being labeled racist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc. that they will gladly toss their own under the bus as well so to be regarded as PC.

See how it works?

I swear that sounds like it was extracted right out of the Hannity et al playbook.

"Many conservatives, particularly politicians, are so deathly afraid of being labeled racist, homophobic, xenophobic, etc. ...

And why is that? Perhaps because they have a history of it - assuming "conservatives" means the historically white well-to-do power brokers that were infact racist, homophobic, and xenophobic

As I've mentioned before, many on this blog cannot see this phenomena and will sincerely deny it exists until their dying breath. Yet it is there, I've provided many examples in this thread.

It's history is linked to past discrimination indeed. Problem is that PC rules have gotten so strict that anything remotely perceived as a violation is met with swift retribution. Again, apologies are not accepted.

BTW, go back to the letter for a perfect example:

"I certainly hope the voting public takes notice and does the only conceivable remedy — to end her political career."

See how it works? Just one offensive statement is all that is needed. No apologies are accepted. The only acceptable outcome is the end of her career.

Dan,

Most political or high profile people are subject to the same standards. Your political persuasion prevents you from seeing that, hence your insistence that demos are forgiven while repubs are not. Major case in point, Bill Clinton. Was he forgiven? The repubs were so insistent he pay for his indiscretions they wasted millions of taxpayer monies to humiliate him.

Now I'm not defending him or anyone else who makes an ass of themselves. But you are way off base with your own accusations regarding libs and conservatives.

A public figure is just that, a public figure. They have more of a responsibility to avoid making asinine remarks because of the power their position affords them. Our disrespect in this forum, while not right, is inconsequential in the scheme of things.

You continually use the term PC. Back in my day it was called being polite. If public expression of one's private thought would cause hurtful, angry feelings, we kept our mouths shut. Nowaday, people shoot off at the mouth with little thought as to who is offended, who is hurt, what is truth or what ramifications their words may cause. As long as people are able to indulge themselves and "tell it like it is", they feel justified in saying whatever they want. Your post about NO is a prime example of indulging yourself at the expense of a whole race. Just blurt out what you want and let the chips fall where they may.

There again, tho, you are simply another faceless, nameless individual participating in a blog. Had you been a public figure, your words should reap harsh criticism and resultant punishment.

That is the crux of Foxx's comment. She has brought it on herself but wants someone or something else blamed. She wants to take no personal responsibility for "telling it like it is" (to her, but attributing it to many), for being self-indulgent and stupid.

You seem to think being PC is wrong. Is it wrong to respect others and treat them as equals? Is it wrong to care about others and their feelings? Is it wrong to want to avoid being hurtful, disruptive or crude? Is it wrong to treat others as you would want to be treated?

Yes, we have the freedom of speech. It is sad, however, that so many think that is a license to say what they damn well please and accept so little responsibility for their behavior and/or resultant fallout.

Maybe "many on this blog cannot see this phenomena and will sincerely deny it exists until their dying breath" ... and maybe that description cuts both ways.

==

Speaking of Ms. Foxx. She recently sent me an e-mail to re-establish herself as the Fifth Congressional District’s Representative.

So what does she now tout: "Constituent service .." !! read as more pork than you can eat at a Lexington BBQ.

"... assisting with a trip to DC or with claiming social security benefits.

" ... helping veterans cut through federal red tape or supporting a local organization that is pursuing a federal grant.

" ... help address[ing] your concerns regarding Social Security, the IRS, veterans benefits, grant information, HUD, USDA or any other federal agency.

All things I would expect a true Conservative Representative to oppose. Instead she offers her assistance to slacker constituents - other people's tax dollars - sucking at g-man teats.

Instead we get " ... we’ll be glad to assist you."

And as a final blow, she's promoting g-man jobs:

"I am also pleased to offer internships throughout the year in my North Carolina and Washington, D.C. offices. These internships are excellent educational opportunities for college students to learn about public service and the legislative branch of government."

So is she a closet liberal too, who had a record of simply voting party lines .. but has apparently changed her "mission ... to hav[ing] the most responsive Congressional office in the nation .. here to help .. constituents who need assistance."

Forget it Dan. Warrantless wiretaps and military surges that outraged the liberals a few short years ago are no longer the threat to liberty we thought. Seems that now, they are wise maneuvers to keep us safe from 'manmade disasters'. (Gawleeeee!)

I'll give credit to the code pink nags, at least they are not the hypocrites that the talking cockroach Keith Olbermann, Mr. tingle, and most of the garden variety liberals that inhibit this blog are.

They'll deny this of course, and some will no doubt point to a past post or two where they questioned the little messiah's judgment on continuing the same policies that Bush introduced, but the venom they spewed at Bush is sorely lacking.

Just a couple more examples of their hypocrisy/bias to add to your links.

BTW, when was the last time we saw our resident anti-illegal immigrant activist excoriate the little messiah for not cracking down on the illegals? A year ago Bush/McCain was synonymous with the words "illegal immigrant".

now...?

"Major case in point, Bill Clinton. Was he forgiven? "

The Clinton/Lewinsky affair didn't involve political correctness, to everyone, except Bill Clinton of course, it involved sex. I'm not writing about sex on this thread.

"You continually use the term PC. Back in my day it was called being polite."

They can be interrelated Yvonne. What Imus said about the Rutgers womens basketball team certainly wasn't polite.

What I am again writing about are the consequences of such "impoliteness."

But PC isn't always linked to impoliteness. Virginia Foxx wasn't impolite in her statement, she didn't refer to Matthew Shepard as a stupid faggot such as Perez Hilton referred to Miss CA as a stupid bitch. But she did violate PC rules so this letter writer and others are calling for her to resign. .

http://www.tips-q.com/879689-virginia-foxx-must-resign

http://queersunited.blogspot.com/2009/04/calls-for-resignation-of-rep-virginia.html

Even some guy in New Zealand is calling for her head:

http://amerinz.blogspot.com/2009/04/virginia-foxx-must-resign.html

"Your post about NO is a prime example of indulging yourself at the expense of a whole race."

Interesting Yvonne, you accuse me of violating PC rules. Here is my statement:

"But I do find the question interesting that so many people (not just blacks) could converge on DC for the inauguration but couldn't get out of New Orleans"

My statement wasn't impolite so the perception of violating PC rules doesn't always involve impoliteness.

Can you please explain how I "indulge myself at the expense of a whole race."? I'd love to see you spin that one.

I never said anything condemning a whole race. Where did you get that? NO was an example of people who are so dependent upon govt. for their sustenance that they were totally incapable of defending themselves. It has nothing to do with being black, my next door neighbor, who is black and not dependent on govt. assistance, would have seen to it to protect his family. There are plenty of white and others depending upon govt. for their every need as well.

"You seem to think being PC is wrong. Is it wrong to respect others and treat them as equals?"

I never said it was wrong to be polite and treat others with respect. I do it each and every day in fact. Like JDR, you cannot see the trees through the forest.

Here is my point again, it is whether to be PC or not, rather the CONSEQUENCES of violating PC whether a statement was polite or not. Instead of the old fashioned concept of apology and forgiveness, which I support, contemporary rules for PC violation call for bringing someone down and destroying their career. Interesting this primarily applies to conservatives. I've illustrated this several times throughout the course of this thread.

Virginia Foxx is but the latest example.

I read earlier today that Ms. Prejean and Caitlyn Upton are engaged to be married. Ms. Upton was Miss Teen South Carolina in 2007 and met Ms. Prejean when Ms. Prejean hired Ms. Upton for instruction in elocution and public speaking. Ms. Upton, you will remember, is highly regarded for her delivery of the following in the Miss Teen USA beauty pageant:

"I personally think that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, um, some people out there in our nation don't have maps and, uh, I believe that our, uh, education like such as, uh, South Africa and, uh, the Iraq and everywhere like such as, and I believe that they should, uh, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., uh, should help South Africa and should help Iraq and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future."

Ms. Foxxx has not been invited to the wedding.

You make me laugh, Neo .. because YOU were the one so upset with the military surge in Iraq .. which was started shrortly after the NeoCons' got their ass kicked in the 2006 election due to there gross incompetance waging war .. you then threw in the towel as I recall, and your ol' nick-name PUSSY reemerged.

Clinton/Lewinsky ... sex vs. PC ...

.. it is all politics .. with everyone spinning for their own benefit ... and most of us getting the coins spun from our pockets.

I like to think I at least see it happening and am speaking out - and writing letters - and being ignored by those that can actually do someting and being called blind by you. We'll just have to disagree.

Politicians screwing us out of our money is an entirely different subject JDR. I'm waiting for my tax refund so I can send the same money back by June 15.

Just remember to remain PC at your next gig, anything offensive or even perceived offensive and they likely won't invite you back.

Yep, perception is involved with PC as well and can be considered as a violation. Yvonne perceived that I insulted the entire black race because I questioned why millions of people, not just black people, could get into DC but a few hundred thousand couldn't get out of New Orleans.

PC allows for this too, take a statement and perceive it as a violation.

See how it works?

"Just remember to remain PC at your next gig, anything offensive or even perceived offensive and they likely won't invite you back."

Oh I dunno .. in some crowds spitting on each other and throwing beers at the band is considered as saying "We Like You!"

==

... but I think your focus on "the few hundred thousand [that] couldn't get out of New Orleans" is left-over (and unrealized) embarassment at the party you have supported.

Partisans of all strips blame others for a city that became flooded by a hurricane that in a few hours grew from a yawn Category 3 to a yiks Category 5 hurricane that flooded 80% of the city with an 89% full vacumn. But I think the fuss was really the American people's anger at the Administration's brushing off the situation .. not that they caused it nor that the Nagin's of the world were or were-not also incompetent ..

It was the Administration's initial brush-off - which was not intentional but was a clear lack of awarnesss about a disaster that was witnessed on TV everywhere - everywhere but inside the beltway. (Again imho) the Administration was too busy trying to correct their self-inflicted debacle in Iraq. I sense that after Katrina the American people finally had enough of being lied too - this was the final straw ... and a year later the Administration's obvious lack of success in Iraq while continuing to tout victory there led to the partisan disaster at the polls.

Dan,

You should be honest with yourself even if you can't be honest with the rest of us. Your constant lightly-veiled insinuations regarding the folks of NO, since the beginning, is fooling no one. It is, and has been, obvious who you are referring to when you speak of the people of NO. Tell me again how many of those who failed to evacuate were white. Tell me again how many times since Katrina you have implied, insinuated, suggested the government teat-sucking crowd in NO were blacks. You can throw "whites" in there to try to balance a statement so you can say "I didn't say only blacks" but the true nature of you statement is obvious. You have made your thoughts on the blacks of NO transparent many, many times.

That kind of behavior reminds me of a man beating his wife and saying "I love you" while hitting her. It may be what he truly believes but his actions speak louder than his words.

BTW, please tell your wife I sincerely say "Happy Mother's Day". No other experience in the world can top being a mother.

"Partisans of all strips blame others for a city that became flooded by a hurricane that in a few hours grew from a yawn Category 3 to a yiks Category 5 hurricane that flooded 80% of the city with an 89% full vacumn."

Check your facts JDR, Katrina was a Cat 5 in the Gulf and diminished to a Cat 3 when it hit New Orleans.

When a Cat 5 is brewing and on it's way you get the hell out of dodge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina

***********************************************

Nice spin Yvonne. Frankly I don't care what color people are. If people of any color are so dependent upon govt. that they cannot defend fro themselves, well Katrina is what you will get. If one if going to be dependent upon govt. they should at least elect a competent govt. to rely upon. As you know the media blame Bush & the Feds for the lack of response. Well I'm fair, there is definitely some blame there. But I've never read you or any other lib placing the slightest smidgen of blame upon the incompetent governor of LA and mayor of New Orleans. Please show the slightest shred of honesty here.

May I remind you of this photo of flooded school buses that could have been used to evacuate people prior to the storm. Is that the president's call to use the buses? The governors? The mayors? I'd pick the last.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/File:Bus_yard-rotate.jpg

Anyone, regardless of race, who lives off the "teat" (btw, Neo uses that term, you have us confused, but it fits here) of govt. will end up helpless to care for themselves. I see it every week when I pick up my "little brother". I don't see it with the family next door.

**********************************************

"That kind of behavior reminds me of a man beating his wife and saying "I love you" while hitting her. It may be what he truly believes but his actions speak louder than his words.'

First I indulge myself at the expense of an entire race and now this piss poor analogy about wife beating. Do you really believe this?

For the record, I have never hit my wife or any other woman for that matter. I'll admit I felt like it when I found out my first wife was cheating on me but I refrained.

After conversing with you all these years on this blog I wouldn't have expected that from you. It's disappointing.

Happy Mothers Day anyway. Mothers are special, I saw mine today. What is more special are moms and dads who stay together to raise their children to be responsible adults. My wife and I take that job very seriously.

Dan,

You are dead wrong to try to sweep this Foxx issue under the same PC carpet that has become such a convenient repository for your side. What she said was not insensitive, edgy, or using the wrong term. What she did was state as fact what can -- at the very most -- be supposition based solely on the recanting of a murdering drug addict. And her apology for the use of a single word does not excuse her from her irresponsibility. I really struggle to find words to explain this any differently. If Al Sharpton caused Don Imus to get fired, or if Howard Cosell or Jimmy the Greek were dismissed because of misplaced outrage, that's another topic entirely. Rep Foxx intentionally tried to divert attention from a law by drawing misleading / false conclusions. That's what she needs to apologize for. And she has not. I'll ask again -- why is it that you guys are all about "accountability", except when it applies to your team?

"...they questioned the little messiah's judgment..."

It is interesting that it is only those who hate and/or fear Obama who call him "messiah."

Same principle Howie, but you too don't see it. Apologies don't matter, the offender must be brought DOWN. The PC crowd doesn't always succeed I'll admit, but they try their best.

It's the fact that she is called upon to resign for her statement. Never mind anything positive she has contributed, she must go. CONSEQUENCES

As for Hillary's miscue? Yaaaaawwwwwnnnn. And she was a presidential candidate (and Senator), not just a House Rep.

BTW, I'm not looking at "teams" in politics but I do in sports, as in the Hurricanes in less than an hour. If I did, she wouldn't be on "my team" as I live in Rep. Coble's district.

I've said over and again that you guys can't see it, and I believe you are sincere, yet it is there. But thanks for not insinuating that I beat my wife, that's a definite plus for you Howie.

Did Mom enjoy her day?

"Check your facts JDR ... "

Did I say Katrina was a Cat 5 when it hit New Orleans?

Nope.

Facts are my specialty.

Did I say Katrina was a Cat 5 when it hit New Orleans?

Yep.....you did.

Partisans of all strips blame others for a city that became flooded by a hurricane that in a few hours grew from a yawn Category 3 to a yiks Category 5 hurricane that flooded 80% of the city with an 89% full vacumn.

Katrina was a Cat 3 when it hit NO, it was a Cat 5 prior. Spin away, pun intended.

Well that is what I wrote but it's not what I meant. My bad.

... but my lack of clarity did not distract from the key point:

.. the American people's anger at the Administration's brushing off of the situation .. not intentional but a clear lack of awarenesss - even several day's after the levee's broke - about a disaster that was witnessed by all of America on TV everywhere - all America but those inside the beltway ... imho the Administration was too busy trying to correct their self-inflicted debacle in Iraq.

... the American people finally had enough of being lied too - and Katrina was the final straw ... a year later the Administration's obvious lack of competance - doubled-down by obvious lack of success in Iraq while continuing to tout victory - three years later doubled-down again with the financial meltdown occurring under their watch (while they were calling for an "Ownership Society") ... all led to the Republican disasters at the voting booths .. from which they are still trying to recover.

Has America turned Socialist? Clearly not .. but equally clearly America has turned toward more g-man involvement ... which may or may not be a good thing for America .. but the cause is at least as much the fault of ongoing GOP Hog Wash as it is the messiah's charm.

"Well that is what I wrote but it's not what I meant."

You sound like Robert Gibbs trying to 'splain away Biden's remarks about public transport and swine flu.

Then the usual yada yada solely blaming Bush for Katrina. I've already attributed partial blame to the Feds. As expected, nary a mention of the inept state and local govts. being unable to get their dependents out of harms way.

"Same principle Howie, but you too don't see it. Apologies don't matter, the offender must be brought DOWN."

Dan -- I'll try again, using still different words.
A: Rep Foxx stated as fact a supposition based on the word of a murdering drug addict.
B: In that apology, she used the word 'hoax'.
C: She apologized for 'B', not for the greater offense -- 'A'.
This is not the same category as Trent Lott or Hillary Clinton making an inappropriate joke. If there is blindness here, it is in your eyes.

I don't expect her to resign, and I don't expect her to be voted out -- I read that her district is one of the most conservative in the country. But still, she should be accountable for her actions. And if I were on your "team", I don't think I'd be out of line in expecting more of her. Until she apologizes, I -- like the letter writer -- consider her an embarassment to the state.

My wife had a great Mother's Day, thanks. I hope yours did as well.

Dan,

I did not imply, state or say you beat your wife. I am sorry you misunderstood. Infact, I have never, even once, thought you were the type to hit your wife. From all I can gather from the little I do know about you, you are a fine husband and father. My implied comparison was you may think you do not make derogatory statements aimed at blacks but you do. The wife-beating man may think he really does love his wife but HIS ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN HIS WORDS. Your negative posts about blacks speak louder than your denial. Got it?

What would you suggest as an appropriate fate for those public figures who carelessly misspeak and expect the public to ignore their wrongful behavior? Slap them on the wrist and tell them to stop? Pretend their words are not really all that important and simply forget about it? Accept their failure to accept personal responsibility for what they say and do?

Would you so readily accept an insincere apology from a doctor who told you you had cancer, then later told you he had misspoke? Or a teacher calling one of your children an ignorant, spoiled brat in front of your child?

When people are in a position of authority, they need to be even more cognizant of their words than those of us who are average joes and janes. And they should think before they open their mouths to speak. When they fail to adhere to common decency, they should "pay" or be held accountable in some way. What do you suggest?

The fact that my letter encouraged this much conversation makes it that much more worthwhile. Great points - Helms was definitely much worse. However, he's dead and gone so debating his philosophy is pointless. Foxx is a dinosaur and shouldn't be in office - but since I'm a California resident now it's not really my call. Good to know there several who agree with me - somewhat. Good to know there are also those who like to change the subject and defend ignorance. Also good to know we all agree freedom of speech is still alive and well. What Foxx said was in fact freedom of speech - as uneducated and ridiculous as she came across.

"Your negative posts about blacks speak louder than your denial. Got it?"

Yep got it. I'm not a wife beater, rather a racist ;-)

"What would you suggest as an appropriate fate for those public figures who carelessly misspeak and expect the public to ignore their wrongful behavior?"

I would expect them to apologize and the matter be dropped. Didn't happen to Imus nor Lott, yet it did happen to Hillary. Hmmmm.

Let me know what you think of these comments that make a joke of 9/11, people recovering from drug addiction, people with kidney disease, and basically wishing Rush Limbaugh had this disease:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKYHiQqEK3o

If these words had been uttered by a conservative there would be hell to pay. But the double standard exempts lefties. Yeah the lady is a comedienne, but these words in front of the president and him laughing is mighty callous towards those who are struggling with substance abuse.

uncincali: "but since I'm a California resident now it's not really my call."

Exactly. Please don't worry about NC, rather please worry about your extreme deficits, taxes, illegals flooding across the border, earthquakes, wildfires, drought, gangs, smog, crime, and traffic. Oh, and don't forget that eeeeeevvvviiiiiillllll Miss CA who, God forbid, thinks marriage should be between one man and one woman. What a dinosaur and I'm sure an embarrassment.

I've been to LA three times, had to go for business. I'd never go there for vacation and wondered each time how people could voluntarily choose to live in such a cesspool. Be safe.

Great commentary Dan - you should be proud of yourself. I hope your blood pressure doesn't get too elevated. We're just sharing opinions here. But, I appreciate the debate - it's healthy. I've never attempted to defend what goes on here in California. Certainly has it's own share of issues that the majority of our country can't even begin to replicate. However, this is not about Jesse Helms or Imus or Miss California, or any other topic you randomly threw in the mix. This was about Virginia Foxx and her close minded view of reality - nothing more. I could care less about any of the other items you rambled about - this was about her and what she said concerning a hate induced murder of a gay man - end of story. I don't know your views or or your political stance - it's irrelevant to me. It's obvious from your rhetoric that you must be in the same generation as Mrs. Foxx, otherwise you might be a little more open to criticism concerning your local representative. If I wanted to address issues with other public figures, I would have mentioned them thus requiring a little more than a simple letter to the editor about a single occurrence. I'm guessing you probably think I'm some outsider criticizing NC. I can see that - but no. I lived there my entire life until 4 years ago. My roots are there, my family is there. I also bet you have absolutely no idea what it's like to grow up in NC, in the South, and be gay - didn't think so. I think we probably both love NC - that's a safe assumption. You should do exactly what you've been doing - stay in NC. Your positive attitude may rub off on someone. Oh, and if you happen to decide on another vacation getaway, I'd be more than happy to drop you off in East LA and introduce you around. I'm sure your opinion would be welcomed with open arms. Great talking with you.

I'll go ahead and call you John, since that is your name published in the letter.

No problem with high blood pressure, in fact my BP is so low my hands and feet get cold easily.

No problem sharing opinions, that's what this forum is for. I try to do it in a civil manner and applaud you for doing the same.

I will differ in that this letter is only about Virginia Foxx. The theme is common with your conclusion about any conservative, Republican or whatever you want to call them who makes a miscue, their career should come to an end.

I don't agree with her statement, but do you think one statement warrants the end of a career? That is why I provided other examples of the same phenomena.

With regards to the same generation of Ms. Foxx I had to check wiki for her birth date. She is 20 years older than me, don't know if you consider that the same generation. Again, she is not my representative, Howard Coble is.

You are correct, I don't know what it is like growing up gay in NC or anywhere else for that matter as I am not gay. I do have a few family members and a friend who are gay and have spoken with them extensively about homosexuality. Again I cannot personally understand being gay, but I certainly believe they have no choice regarding their sexuality and hold nothing against them for it. They are very decent people whom I enjoy being around.

"You should do exactly what you've been doing - stay in NC"

Sorry to not accommodate that suggestion. I travel a lot for business, in Texas this week, and I love to travel on vacation. I've been to 48 states, several dozen countries on four continents and lived abroad in Europe. NC is a good place to call home but there is a big world out there to discover. Sorry I don't meet your expectations of a hayseed hick who has never left the state save a trip to Myrtle Beach each summer. That is what you seem to imply.

Thanks for the invite to LA, but I actually prefer San Francisco. It's a much more interesting city.

Hate to disillusion you Dan, but I would feel JC, had he made the same statement as Foxx, should be severely reprimanded. An insincere apology and forget the whole incident is hardly appropriate when we are talking about seasoned politicians or high profile people, imho. While I do believe the punishment should fit the crime, it is my opinion this has not been the case in the Foxx incident. I agree with Howie. She made a deliberate statement, not just a gaff. And she is not a known comedian simply doing her job. There is a major difference you refuse to acknowledge; humor, no matter how sick, disgusting or wrong, is not intended to be taken seriously. Ms. Foxx meant to be taken seriously.