News-Record.com

FYI, here's the LTE:

"Insurance companies don’t care about people

"Insurance companies don’t care about people
The cry “socialism!” is ricocheting around the conservative echo chamber like some dizzy pinball. “Socialized medicine!” “Socialized business!”

"The one thing that truly has been socialized is risk. Wall Street has privatized rewards to the oligarchs and left us to deal with the risks. But according to the right-wing talk circuit, that’s the way it’s supposed to work.

"The main argument in socialized medicine is control. “Do you want the government to tax you and tell you what doctor you can go to, or what treatment you can have?” Heck, no! I want Humana or Blue Cross to do it, just like they do now! If the payment for universal health coverage is a tax rather than a premium, is your homeowner’s insurance or life insurance bill a tax?

"Most Americans with coverage have it through their jobs. With unemployment exploding, that means millions more uninsured. We are the only industrialized nation that forces people into bankruptcy because of a serious illness. You are not immune from disaster, even if you are covered.

"The insurance companies’ goal is to maximize wealth for their shareholders and CEOs, not provide you excellent coverage. When they run the game, we lose.

Sandi Campbell
Siler City

http://blog.news-record.com/opinion/letters/archives/2009/05/insurance_companies_dont_care.shtml

==

... and in the thread Dan tells a story about his father's recent $110,000 Medical Bill, concluding with, "$600/month to cover such an expensive stay, sounds like a bargain to me". Dan also notes his dad paid into Medicare during his working years.

Now I guess Dan's Dad earned more than the average US Citizen, but using census data ... MALE HOUSEHOLDER, NO SPOUSE - Median income - years 1947 through 2006:

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/histinc/f07ar.html

.. and since Medicare portion is 1.45% of wages ... the average person paid between $290 and $680 ANNUALLY during the years 1947 through 2006. Even with Dad currently paying $600 / month - the same amount Dan & I pay for our families (we are both self employed and both in the healthy period of our lives, unlike our Fathers) .. then HELL YEA .. sounds like a bargain to me too.

... but it also blows to smithereens EVERY "Free Market" "No Government Intervention" "No Government Interference" position taken in this blog.

... so looking at the above .. do we not already live in "a country with socialized medicine" ??

... even Bubba chimes in "... under Obamacare, there's an excellent chance that he will not have that type of surgery available to him again".

Heck even Bubba like America's Current Socialized Medical system. Now I've seen it all.

Just to be clear:

We currrently have a system which the self-labeled conservatives are in favor of preserving - a system these self-labeled conservatives are using as their own - a system of which the public portion is rapidly going broke - a system now going more rapidly broke because of "Obamacare".

Jeeze

"Now I guess Dan's Dad earned more than the average US Citizen."

Much more JDR. My dad was a physician who started his own consulting business from scratch. It was very successful and resulted in offices in several states by the time he retired. I remember him in the beginning moonlighting in the emergency room on weekends and some weekday nights to make ends meet.

He made very good money through his entrepreneurial spirit and ass busting hard work. Therefore he paid much more in taxes than the average US citizen. So yes, you are correct.

.. but if you look at the averages .. our current socialized medicine is one hell-of-a-deal for most Americans - but it is about 1/2 the inefficiency of other socialized medicine programs and unsustainable.

But let's make no changes. OK? Heck let's not even have an informed conversation about it ... let's keep partisan BS as the focus.

1/2 the efficiency (sp)

"... but it also blows to smithereens EVERY "Free Market" "No Government Intervention" "No Government Interference" position taken in this blog."

Are you really as naive about health care and the costs/benefits as your words make you out to be?

Or are you just trying to play dumb in order to start a fight?

Which is it?

If you don't like health insurance companies, just drop your health insurance.

The hospital will find a way to pay for your life-saving procedure.

Whether you live or not, well, that's a little tougher.

notice the so-called "Conservatives" have no arguments except ad hominem attacks? that is because the position that only they should have health care holds no merit.

Dan, so your dad is/was a physician. Well, I suspect that's why you talk so much "right-wingnutishness!"........JDR and verrise, I applaud you comments re our nation's health care problem!

Verelse,

The current system is indefensible. That's why attacks & no arguments (or fresh ideas). Americans are among the most unhappy with their health care in the world (26% of often abused Canadians say their system works well vs. 12% of Americans).

The system works OK (but only OK) for folks that can afford it but that is becoming a smaller and smaller crowd (this accelerated by the economy).

I've said over and over again a system that grows faster than inflation WILL collapse. How and when are the only questions.

The current system is set up for insurance companies first, doctors second, patients last.

Dan,

I was in Canada (you know that place where they like their health care system) this last weekend and was talking about their election with a bus driver. He said the Liberals won but he allowed they weren't really Liberals but rather were conservatives, but being labeled a Liberal sells better in Canada. I told him, Yep that's just like in the US.

It got a pretty good laugh from the Americans in attendance anyway.

Bubba:

Why don’t you ‘splain how I am being either “naïve” or just plain “dumb”? While you’re at it, ‘splain how the current systems use of $110,000 in tax payer money to treat Dan’s aging Father is "Free Market", without "Government Intervention", and without "Government Interference".

I await your learned answer.

Truman – Don’t be too hard on Dan .. he’s a pretty square guy who talks the con-game but is really a closet liberal.

.. but I will add this observation / theory. Dan makes his living selling some secret medical device. While clearly his entrepreneurial spirit and relative(*1) ass busting hard work make Dan a success story, having a family connect almost certainly gave him a leg up in the beginning .. which is not evil-nor-bad in any way .. but it does speak to the easier life available to good looking socially connected white males from healthy functional families ... and for the record: myself included.

*1 – “Relative” because selling & servicing medical products (Dan) - nor keeping factories running (JDR) - does in no way compare with deep-mining coal at 3000 feet below the surface.

http://coalwoodwestvirginia.com/DG0092.jpg

JDR, don't worry about truman, every post is the same hit and run, you're a wing nut, blah blah.

The logic, or lack thereof is actually entertaining; Dan's dad is a physician therefore Dan is a right wing nut.

I notice truman pants like a puppy for approval from you, verelse, Sir Firefly or anyone else who won't whack him for pissing on the carpet, yet all of you ignore him.

Oh, that reminds me, today is Wednesday, truman has broken his (I'll say his as I've never seen a female in her sixties act in such an immature manner) self-imposed ban on Wednesday posting.

truman said:
conundrum, mitay, panacea, et al. "enlightened posters:" I suggest that we set aside at least one day a week and not post on this blog at all! This arrangement will allow the "unenlightened" right-wingnuts (beachwalker, dan, ghost, gunch, neocon, sawdust, et al. dummies) to "chatter just among themselves," reinforcing again and again, ad nauseum, each others' lunatic comments! And I believe their display of posts would provide exceptional comical entertainment for the rest of us! How about Wednesdays, beginning May 6?
Posted on May 2, 2009 12:44 PM

Sir Firefly: Dan,

I was in Canada (you know that place where they like their health care system)..."

Yeah, those who either don't need it or those who know nothing else. Read on my friend:

"Seven of 10 provinces have more than 90 per cent of heart bypass surgeries occurring within 26 weeks, the report showed."

"For instance, eight out of 10 provinces have at least 79 per cent of patients receiving cancer treatment within 28 days"

"For hip replacements, six provinces are meeting the benchmark, with three-quarters of patients having their surgeries within 26 weeks."

(My beloved aforementioned dad had hip replacement surgery performed within a week or two after deciding to do it)

" But knee troubles persist. The data show that only Prince Edward Island, Quebec and Ontario have reached the benchmark of 75 per cent or more of patients who need knee surgery getting it within a 26-week period."

One of those "horror" stories as Tony Ledford refers:

Margaret Foster, who lives just outside St. John's, N.L., went on the waiting list about two years ago to have both knees replaced.

Foster, 55, needs to be pushed in a wheelchair or use a motorized cart to go shopping, and can't go up and down stairs.

"It's 24-7 with pain, really bad pain," she said. "I'm currently wearing a patch for the pain."

She finally got a call for surgery last week but couldn't have it performed because of a bout of bronchitis."

" Foster said that whatever is being done to reduce wait times, they should try something different "because it's really not working."

"It's ridiculous to wait this long," she said.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090423/Waiting_Operations_090423/20090423

JDR, I like the secret medical device theory. The "devices" have been selling well this month and so has the maintenance. I've been out of town the last two weeks and am now in Greenville, SC for a few days of maintenance work as well.

You are absolutely correct JDR, my dad (and mom too) helped me tremendously. They had the foresight to stay married and raise their children. Dad worked his ass off and provided for us. They provided shelter, food, and another very important gift, a college education.

What they didn't provide was spending money, cars, entertainment, etc. I started working, illegally, at a restaurant at 15. Once legal at 16 I worked at McDonalds and flipped enough burgers to buy my first car, gas, insurance, maintenance, etc.

In retrospect that is the best gift of all they provided; self-reliance.

You-Who ... Bubba Breath ... You Out There?

"In retrospect that is the best gift of all they provided; self-reliance."

True ... self-reliance with the gov'ment providing more than most know including the great gift of bargin basement costs for first-world health-care by subsidizing an over-priced and unsustainable semi-private Medical System .. Heck why change that!

Let's instead just totally eliminate the $600 / year 1.45%-of-Wage Medicare and move to a 100% Private System 'cause Lord Knows "Any fool who believes that the federal government can do anything right deserves to die."

Sorry .. I must need a new needle on my record playa'

You-Who ... Bubba Breath ... You Out There?
Help me out Buddy - I clearly don't get it.

JDR-

You can forget about holding an intelligent debate with Bubba. He is utterly incapable. If you want Bubba's argument about anything, you will most likely find it here:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/tools/search.guest.html

"In retrospect that is the best gift of all they provided; self-reliance."

Dan,

That's incomplete. Kids on the street are self-reliant but what they lack is a set of expectations, and empowerment. When you watched someone get up and go to work each day you saw a path to success that other less fortunate folks didn't. That's not their fault and not to your credit. We all live with the examples that we've been provided. Most of us that's to our benefit.